Bank pursues MS sufferer

Vignette

I know a guy who took out a personal loan from Ulster Bank for around €15k a couple of years ago. He has since been diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis and is out of work. Ulster Bank have pursued him to the maximum degree possible even though he has explained to them in writing that he doesn't have anything to give them (no income/no assets) and he has provided written proof from his GP of his diagnosis.

He recently supplied the solicitor acting for Ulster Bank with a written budget showing that he did not have any surplus income and actually had a deficit each month which was being funded by his parents. Their response was to ask if the MS Society would contribute funds to pay off the loan. Is this not the lowest form of behaviour - to ask a charity, which is funded primarily from donations, to give money to a bank to cover their losses when their money should be going to helping sufferers deal with the consequences of MS.

I've just heard that they went ahead and got a judgement against this guy which will probably stop him from doing basic things such as getting a mobile phone or other services in the next 5 years - as if he didn't have enough to worry about. And now they've sent him a letter threatening to send the Sheriff out to seize goods (what - his clothes), attach the judgement to his house (he doesn't own one), get an instalment order (he has no income) and even take bankruptcy proceedings against him.

I could be too close to this to have a balanced view but I think that this is disgraceful and at this point in time I wouldn't stand in the same room as someone who works for this bank.

Note; I have documentation to prove all of the above.

The_Minister

Ms/Cancer/Cystic Fibrosis etc don't get you a walk on debts you owe.

Banks don't want to confiscate your house/possessions or get judgments against you, they want you to pay back your loan and keep whatever it was for.
However, if you can't pay, they will take such actions as you agree to when you take out the loan. Normally, if you've lost your job they will give you a payment break/reduced payment/interest only for a short period, as long as yo have been paying regularly up to then.
They only take action against you if there is absolutely no way you can pay i the nearish future, or if you haven't been co-operating.

I'm curious as to what you think the bank should do?
Walk away from 15,000 euro? Should people with serious diseases get to walk away from their loans without consequence?

You say that your friend has MS. That disease normally takes several years to progress to the stage where it becomes debilitating, did your friend know that he had MS when he took out the loan?

Don't get me wrong, it's a sad story and I feel sorry for your friend, but the bank has a right to its money.

Diarmuid

Sad story but having a disease does not get you a pass on your loans. Would you expect it to?

Banks are very accommodating if you make any attempts to repay. If you tell them that you will repay even a small amount each month until you are in a better position they will generally accept that.

I think your friend must have taken some bad advice to go down the path he has gone. Now that the relationship between him and his creditors have gone bad, it might be difficult to rescue the situation

unclebill98

There is only one thing about the op that annoys me....

"I wouldn't stand in the same room as someone who works for this bank." Stupid comment...

Everything else is spot on. Its a tough one all right but the people making the choice to presue him don't really work on the ground and will never have to deal with a back lash if this is true.

Best thing to do is pay 1euro a month into the loan. Atleast he is facing up to having the debt and is trying his best to pay it. Let it get in front of a judge and hope he uses common sense to sort it out.

The post above pretty much cover any thing else I'd say.

broker2008

As above, pay something off each month and a registered letter stating all the difficulties he has should be sent to Ulster Bank. So when it comes to judge time, he can be seen to have acted in a proper manner and done everything to try and rectify the situation as his means allow him to. The banks are going after everyone some who can pay will cave others who can't pay will be will looked at an individual basis but only when it gets further up the foodchain, it seems. Good luck.

Snabe

my advice is to tell your friend to go to MABS. most banks have signed up with them to work on the customer's behalf to come to an agreement with the bank about a repayment scheme that suits all parties.

eman66

I feel very sorry for your friend. MS can be devastating to a persons well-being and lifestyle. I have seen first hand what it does to a person and that person's family.

I would hope that someday we can develop as a society to the extent that we can accommodate people who become so unfortunately afflicted in the manner of such chronic, debilitating and terminal illnesses. It is nice to think that we will eventually come to the realisation that we can make the necessary changes to enable us to put life and people before profit and corporate interests.

In today's society though, money remains the master.

Your friend entered into an agreement with a company and must abide by the rules of the agreement. That's the law. It's also the near-sighted view. The wider view shows how wrong the systems can be.

Diarmuid

eman66 wrote: »

It is nice to think that we will eventually come to the realisation that we can make the necessary changes to enable us to put life and people before profit and corporate interests.

You can. Send him your disposable income for the next few months. You can put his life before your profit.

dotsman

It is a sad story and it must be a truly terrible thing for the friend. Not only to have MS, but to also be in such financial difficulties.

But what do you think the bank should do? What reason would they have for letting him off his debts? Should they let all sick people off their debts? Define sick? From someone on their deathbed to someone with a mild cold - where do you draw the line?

A bank must be as oblivious as they can to the persons health when deciding to pursue a debt. Much the same way, if an MS Sufferer was to go out and kill someone, they cannot expect to escape punishment just because they are sick.

Ultimately, the responsibility lies with your friend, however sad that may be. One could ask why he did not have any insurance? It is precisely for reasons such as this that banks offer insurance with loans/mortgages. What about all the people who do pay for the insurance? Why should they pay it if the banks let people off because they get sick.

As said, this is a sad situation, and I do feel for him. But it is not the bank's fault, they are only doing what they are supposed/entitled to do.


Finally, and I don't mean to sound smart when I say this, but why don't you repay his debts for him? If you expect a bank to lose 15K on him (ultimately a stranger), surely you can expect a close friend to lose 15K to help out a buddy in need (or split the costs between a circle of close friends)? This might not be possible, but I hope it highlights how wrong it is to expect a bank to write this off when his own friends/family won't.

Vignette wrote: »

I wouldn't stand in the same room as someone who works for this bank.

P.S. An attitude like that will get you nowhere in life.

Vignette

Do you know what - your posts have changed my mind.

So what about people who have diseases like Cystic Fibrosis/Cancer/MS and the like - shower of moaners. Why don't they just ignore the fact that they're blind in one eye (like my friend) or that sometimes they lose the feeling in one side of their body and have trouble walking (like my friend). Why don't they just ignore the fact that over 12% of able bodied people in Ireland can't find work, and just go out there and get a job.

I'll tell you - these freeloaders really piss me off.

So what if they have to adjust to the fact that at 26 years of age they have a serious illness which may blight their life. Emotionally upset my arse - just buck up and get on with whats left of your life.

They should be more concerned about their Bank - the Bank who commenced their collection efforts by spending several weeks harassing his parents in the hope that they would pay (breach of Data Protection act as parents had nothing to do with the loan) and then spent several more months following up a payment protection policy that did not exist (even though their file clearly showed that it didn't exist).

As for people who are born disabled (rather than being beset by it later in life) - well don't get me started.

There's a sickness in society which must have been born out of the Celtic Tiger because it wasn't as prevalent 20 years ago. It turns ordinary people into assholes who are totally devoid of any compassion for those who are less fortunate than them. You see it on the roads every day, where people show a complete lack of consideration for others. To hell with the guy who made the mistake of pulling out without lookiing - put the foot on the acelerator and mow him out of it.

You could see it in Upton Park last Tuesday night, when fans sang "Where's your Daddy" gone at Jack Collison who's father was tragically killed 2 nights earlier. Can you imagine how that felt.

I'm no religious fanatic but I am a firm believer that the single most important thing in life is how you treat other people, especially those less fortunate than yourself.

I really hope that none of you ever have to deal with serious illness in your own family.

jhegarty

Why won't his repayment insurance cover it ?

Diarmuid

Vignette wrote: »

I really hope that none of you ever have to deal with serious illness in your own family.

Hop down off your high horse and realise that maybe some of us already do.

sarahlulu

+1 Diarmuid unfortunately illness does not enable anyone to escape their responsibilities

BuffyBot

I'll tell you - these freeloaders really piss me off.

People have laid out facts for you. Don't restort to tabloid hyperbole just because you don't like what you're hearing.

Vignette

BuffyBot wrote: »

People have laid out facts for you. Don't restort to tabloid hyperbole just because you don't like what you're hearing.

Make your point if you have one BuffyBot. Don't just spew out an order to me to desist from making mine. Have I broken a rule of the forums.

If your so into right and wrong think about it for a bit. A person who borrows money and can't pay it back isn't breaking any laws. The Bank broke Data Protection laws by repeatedly harassing his parents who had no right to even know about the debt. Who's right and who's wrong. They also screwed up by spending months insisting that he make a claim on a payment protection policy which didn't exist. They wrote to him twice directing him to do this and enclosed a copy of the consumer credit agreement which clearly stated that the loan was not covered by payment protection.

Bad debts are a part of all lending especially personal lending. The interest rate that the Bank charges is actually calculated to take this into account - it has to offset the bad loans in the portfolio and produce a profit. Thats why you pay more for unsecured lending.

The Bank has thrown good money after bad. Getting a judgement on someone who is destitute is a stupid thing to do. It costs money and it won't produce anything. A Bank which does this is not serving its shareholders well. Any lender with a clue would do an investigation as to means first and if the person had means would pursue them. What is the point in pursuing someone who has nothing. You can't attach a judgement to nothing and you can't get an instalment order over income that doesn't exist.

You don't have to agree with me BuffyBot. Just don't use your big bad ADMINISTRATOR title to talk me down. If your going to post, why not at least make a point.

Vignette

dotsman wrote: »

P.S. An attitude like that will get you nowhere in life.

And Dotsman - what are you basing this comment on. Have you extensive experience of people with this attitude not getting far. Do they end up living under bridges. You don't know me or how far I have got in life. As it happens I'm doing quite well thanks and I didn't have to sell my soul to get here.

BuffyBot

I'm pretty sure I did make a point.

Again, because you don't like it, doesn't invalidate it.

We've only got your word for the happenings, and like most things the truth generally lies somewhere between your version and the banks. However, seem as you can't approach the thread with the requisite maturity, I'm going to close it.