Cóir - Good God, What are they good for?

MrMicra · 30-08-2009 2:15am

There is nothing inconsistent about O'Leary saying that the referendum result should stand and then campaigning for a Yes vote. This is my position.

If we are having a second referendum I will vote yes because the Lisbon Treaty is good for Irish people as Europeans and good for Europe.

nesf · 30-08-2009 2:38am

Alan Rouge wrote: »

If you don't give freedom of speech to those that you despise then you don't respect or want freedom of speech at all.

Indeed. It makes every time I pass a COIR poster feel like dictatorship surely can't be that bad...

meglome · 30-08-2009 2:40am

nesf wrote: »

Indeed. It makes every time I pass a COIR poster feel like dictatorship surely can't be that bad...

I'd really love to know who exactly is funding these guys there are posters all over.

nesf · 30-08-2009 2:50am

meglome wrote: »

I'd really love to know who exactly is funding these guys there are posters all over.

If I recall correctly Euan McEvaddy (sp?) gave them a hefty sum during the last campaign, though I may have the wrong person, Scofflaw or someone would know for definite.

thebigcheese22 · 30-08-2009 3:42am

meglome wrote: »

I'd really love to know who exactly is funding these guys there are posters all over.

Prob religious nuts IMHO

Ita crazy tho that this fringe group has so many posters around the gaff. There must be a lot of conservative fascist volunteers around the country! Quite frightening to be honest methinks...

thebigcheese22 · 30-08-2009 3:46am

nesf wrote: »

If I recall correctly Euan McEvaddy (sp?) gave them a hefty sum during the last campaign, though I may have the wrong person, Scofflaw or someone would know for definite.

Je ne sais pas tbh sorry, tho I wouldnt be suprised....

Taxipete29 · 30-08-2009 3:48am

The poster actually says " 1.84, the minimum wage after lisbon?"

The question mark is quite important. I would like to know however why they think this will happen or do they simply pluck these figures out of thin air.

thebigcheese22 · 30-08-2009 3:52am

Taxipete29 wrote: »

The poster actually says " 1.84, the minimum wage after lisbon?"

The question mark is quite important. I would like to know however why they think this will happen or do they simply pluck these figures out of thin air.

I think they put the question marks there to cover their asses legally. Tis absolute craziness of course. If the European Court did give such a ruling (which it wouldn't) then a yes or no to Lisbon would be entirely irrelevant.

Run_to_da_hills · 30-08-2009 4:19am

Dob74 wrote: »

Coir are good for campaigning against the Lisbon treaty, good god.
They have a right to there freedom of speech.
Same as Michael O'Leary.

A right that could possibly be removed.

(As already is happening in this country with religious comments :rolleyes:)

thebigcheese22 · 30-08-2009 2:29pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

A right that could possibly be removed.

Why? Because they might have to take down their lying posters which totally mislead voters? Dya not think that voters have a right to information which is not a pack of lies? Also the posters are only allowed up on September 1st, so putting it up when they did was illegal

(As already is happening in this country with religious comments :rolleyes:)

Oh yes there was no blasphemy law recently introduced. Wait a minute...

Dob74 · 30-08-2009 2:30pm

nesf wrote: »

Indeed. It makes every time I pass a COIR poster feel like dictatorship surely can't be that bad...

Its only a poster like an advertising poster. They are just putting there arguments forward.
The four moderators on this forum are all on the yes side but that does not mean people are forced into siding with them.
I have seen there posters and all refer to things that are in the public domain.
The 95% would vote no came from a Charlie McGeevy quote.
The minimum wage came from what the GAMA workers where being paid.
Pearse, Connoly and Tomas Clarke is an old one.
The farmers are always complaining.
The Germans voting rights is 17% while we only get 0.8%. Given our size this is probably fair. Afterall they are a nation of 80 million and we are a nation of alcoholics.

Dob74 · 30-08-2009 2:33pm

meglome wrote: »

I'd really love to know who exactly is funding these guys there are posters all over.

I hear they get brown envelopes from property developers. Oh wait that's someone else

marco_polo · 30-08-2009 2:56pm

Just on these two points.

Dob74 wrote: »

The minimum wage came from what the GAMA workers where being paid.
.

Which was a company from outside the EU breaking Irish national minimum law and nothing at all to do with EU.

The Germans voting rights is 17% while we only get 0.8%. Given our size this is probably fair. Afterall they are a nation of 80 million and we are a nation of alcoholics.

The weight are of course perfectly fair by population size, however this overlooks the 'one country one vote' aspect of double majority voting, which is heavily in favour of the smaller nations.

meglome · 30-08-2009 4:53pm

Dob74 wrote: »

I hear they get brown envelopes from property developers. Oh wait that's someone else

And this has anything to do with Lisbon, how?

meglome · 30-08-2009 5:07pm

Dob74 wrote: »

Its only a poster like an advertising poster. They are just putting there arguments forward.

And full of misrepresentations and put up earlier than they were legally supposed to do.

Dob74 wrote: »

The four moderators on this forum are all on the yes side but that does not mean people are forced into siding with them.

That might be because they use fact about Lisbon and not stuff they make up.

Dob74 wrote: »

I have seen there posters and all refer to things that are in the public domain.
The 95% would vote no came from a Charlie McGeevy quote.

Something said about countries not about people, so immediately it's not what he said. And given Ireland voted No based on things that were not even in the treaty it's a fair point. Every nutjob all over Europe would crawl out of the woodwork and start lying about what Lisbon involves.

Dob74 wrote: »

The minimum wage came from what the GAMA workers where being paid.
.

By a company from outside the EU and against our regulations. Nothing whatsoever to do with Lisbon.

Dob74 wrote: »

Pearse, Connoly and Tomas Clarke is an old one.

And relevant to Lisbon how?

Dob74 wrote: »

The farmers are always complaining.

Those same farmers that are protect by the EU and paid by the EU. Which has anything to do with Lisbon, how?

Dob74 wrote: »

The Germans voting rights is 17% while we only get 0.8%. Given our size this is probably fair. Afterall they are a nation of 80 million and we are a nation of alcoholics.

Sure the weights are fair by population size, but what about the one country one vote double majority voting?

nesf · 30-08-2009 5:10pm

Dob74 wrote: »

Its only a poster like an advertising poster. They are just putting there arguments forward.
The four moderators on this forum are all on the yes side but that does not mean people are forced into siding with them.
I have seen there posters and all refer to things that are in the public domain.
The 95% would vote no came from a Charlie McGeevy quote.
The minimum wage came from what the GAMA workers where being paid.
Pearse, Connoly and Tomas Clarke is an old one.
The farmers are always complaining.
The Germans voting rights is 17% while we only get 0.8%. Given our size this is probably fair. Afterall they are a nation of 80 million and we are a nation of alcoholics.

I was joking. The above is all distorted and taken way out of context.

meglome · 30-08-2009 5:11pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

A right that could possibly be removed.

(As already is happening in this country with religious comments :rolleyes:)

You should try and tell the truth, even once, just for novelty value.

Het-Field · 30-08-2009 5:29pm

meglome wrote: »

You should try and tell the truth, even once, just for novelty value.

Not exactly. Ireland's constitution, and the ECHR dont recognise an ABSOLUTE right to free expression.

meglome · 30-08-2009 5:36pm

Het-Field wrote: »

Not exactly. Ireland's constitution, and the ECHR dont recognise an ABSOLUTE right to free expression.

But that is our constitution and isn't related to Lisbon as is the implication. And given that we've just brought in a ridiculous blasphemy law his comments about religion are rubbish.

Red Sleeping Beauty · 30-08-2009 8:26pm

Still looking forward to seeing the "Yes" posters.

ei.sdraob · 30-08-2009 8:27pm

Alan Rouge wrote: »

Still looking forward to seeing the "Yes" posters.

i cant imagine anyone on the YES side sinking to COIRs level

Scofflaw · 30-08-2009 9:38pm

Alan Rouge wrote: »

Still looking forward to seeing the "Yes" posters.

I doubt they'll rise to the same level of originality - in any of the available senses of the word.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Bondvillain · 31-08-2009 1:32am

Truthfully?

Despite being a resolute "no" voter last time round, the sight of Coir's people putting up their bizarre "vote no" posters this evening (Aug 30th) in Inchicore have gone a long long way towards making me vote Yes this time.

It seems that they're targeting a certain type of socio-economic demographic with their "Remember 1916!" and "You'll be f*cked if you're on minimum wage!" tinged campaign.

This leads me to believe that "Bobby Sands would have voted No!" "So would Jock Stein" and " Not to mention Jeremy Kyle!" posters are on the agenda for Sept 1.

It goes without saying that the cynical amongst us reckon that the Coir sponsored "Free Happy meals and Heroin for a no vote!" movement cant be far behind.

It's all very ugly.

meglome · 31-08-2009 1:43am

Bondvillain wrote: »

It's all very ugly.

It really really is.

Hitman Actual · 31-08-2009 10:07am

Dick Roche and Coir are to be 'debating' on Pat Kenny this morning, which should be interesting. As deranged as Coirs' arguments usually are, Roche is never particularly good at rebutting even basic 'No' arguments. (You can't fault his enthusiasm for the EU project though).

There's also supposed to be a debate between two farmers groups (opposition, obviously) on the Treaty.

Edit: Coir/Roche segment on now. Peter Murphy from Coir- never heard of him.

Hitman Actual · 31-08-2009 10:18am

This debate is quite entertaining, the Coir guy is getting destroyed.

Oafley Jones · 31-08-2009 10:30am

Hitman Actual wrote: »

This debate is quite entertaining, the Coir guy is getting destroyed.

He certainly is, but that's what happens when you try to counter fact with religious ideology. Coir getting front and centre is a blessing in disguise for the Yes campaign.

Hitman Actual · 31-08-2009 10:37am

Oafley Jones wrote: »

He certainly is, but that's what happens when you try to counter fact with religious ideology. Coir getting front and centre is a blessing in disguise for the Yes campaign.

Yeah, I've always thought that as well.

Roche did quite well, I thought. And from that first debate I get the impression that there's much more focus and drive from the Yes campaign this time around.

I'm also wondering did we see the first effect of the revised BCI conditions for coverage? Kenny didn't seem to give as much consideration to Murphy's arguments at all.

P. Breathnach · 31-08-2009 11:37am

Hitman Actual wrote: »

... Roche did quite well, I thought.

He did, even though he is still the same old Dick Roche. It underlines how bad the Cóir representative was, that he can make Roche seem good.

I'm also wondering did we see the first effect of the revised BCI conditions for coverage? Kenny didn't seem to give as much consideration to Murphy's arguments at all.

I don't think Kenny showed any bias. He challenged nonsense claims. He also challenged Roche, but Roche was able to deal with the challenge, so the discussion simply moved along.

Scofflaw · 31-08-2009 11:50am

Oafley Jones wrote: »

He certainly is, but that's what happens when you try to counter fact with religious ideology. Coir getting front and centre is a blessing in disguise for the Yes campaign.

It's enormously sad that the constraints placed on the state broadcaster pretty much require people like COIR to be given plenty of air-time...

amused,
Scofflaw

Cóir - Good God, What are they good for?

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