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Cóir - Good God, What are they good for?

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    #62
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Hitman Actual wrote: »
    This debate is quite entertaining, the Coir guy is getting destroyed.

    is there a link available online to listen, i missed it :(


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    #63
    Hitman Actual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭Hitman Actual


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    is there a link available online to listen, i missed it :(

    RTE usually post RealPlayer recordings of their shows on their website within 24 hours, so maybe just check there later. This particular debate was right at the start of the show, so it'll be easy to find.

    [off-topic]The other debate (the two farmer orgs.) was later in the show, about an hour and a half in. I only half listened to that, but one thing I did catch was the No side debater completely messing up a reply about what direct changes he feared between Lisbon and Nice. It was the most tongue-tied, unconvincing reply I think I've ever heard as regards the treaty.[/off-topic]


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    #64
    Hitman Actual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭Hitman Actual


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    I don't think Kenny showed any bias. He challenged nonsense claims. He also challenged Roche, but Roche was able to deal with the challenge, so the discussion simply moved along.
    Yeah, I agree with that. My point about the BCI rules was that Kenny seemed to have more lee-way in not having to give much consideration to the nonsense spouted by Murphy (the Coir guy). Of course I may have imagined it. But I would hope that this is the effect of the clarification in the BCI rules: nonsense arguments don't have to be given more weight than they deserve.


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    #65
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Coir have officially launched their campaign today.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0831/1224253511501.html


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    #66
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Coir have officially launched their campaign today.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0831/1224253511501.html
    However, Cóir spokesman Richard Greene said Mr Martin’s comments were “a pathetic attempt to smear the Cóir campaign and smacked of desperation”, as he was aware Cóir’s canvassers were having an impact.

    “When will the Minister realise that voters have no problem with either Cóir’s pro-life stance or the fact that, while Cóir is an independent organisation, we are lucky enough to have the support and energy of some Youth Defence members?” said Mr Greene.

    It would be funny if it wasn't serious.


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    #67
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Coir have officially launched their campaign today.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0831/1224253511501.html

    Mr Martin said
    ..the claim about the minimum wage rate of €1.84 was a distortion of the facts, as the EU does not have the power to set national minimum wage rates. “It’s a lie and it’s an untruth – their campaign is all about lies and scaremongering"

    that pretty much sums it up :rolleyes:


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    #68
    tonycascarino
    Registered Users Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭tonycascarino


    Whatever ones views on Cóir are, the Government obviously see them as a major threat. I agree with Richard Greene on the fact that Michael Martin's comments about Cóir smacked of pure desperation.


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    #69
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    is there a link available online to listen, i missed it :(


    http://www.rte.ie/radio/liveplayer_av.html?1,null,200,http://dynamic.rte.ie/av/live/radio/radio1.smil

    Click on Today with Pat Kenny, starts about 7 minutes in.


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    #70
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    tonycascarino wrote: »
    Whatever ones views on Cóir are, the Government obviously see them as a major threat.

    I imagine they do, any organisation what will lie and cheat to win would have to be seen as a threat.
    tonycascarino wrote: »
    I agree with Richard Greene on the fact that Michael Martin's comments about Cóir smacked of pure desperation.

    They smack of the truth I'd suggest.


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    #71
    BlitzKrieg
    Registered Users Posts: 14,685 ✭✭✭✭BlitzKrieg


    marco_polo wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/radio/liveplayer_av.html?1,null,200,http://dynamic.rte.ie/av/live/radio/radio1.smil

    Click on Today with Pat Kenny, starts about 7 minutes in.

    its like those debates on evolution with creationists on youtube...


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    #72
    johnl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 207 ✭✭johnl


    Cóir are just another reactionary Catholic group.
    Their main draw is being anti-abortion.


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    #73
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    Richard Greene is on Matt Cooper now. Lulz ahoy.


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    #74
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Robbo wrote: »
    Richard Greene is on Matt Cooper now. Lulz ahoy.

    oh dear god, Coir guy couldn't answer any questions asked of him such as "why are they lying?"


    edit:
    milked dry poster
    hes blaming Mandelson for WTO talks which will bring food from south america!,


    edit 2:
    now dragging in fishing industry! throws a 200billion figure was raped from the seas!!



    edit 3:
    where is the money for Coir coming from, where is the member list? he dodges the answer despite claiming "transparency" ....


    edit 4:

    Coir guy claiming 6000 jobs created because Ireland vote NO last year in direct investment according to Ernst & Young report while spain who voted Yes have 20% unemployment!

    edit 5:
    asked for the nth time where is money coming from and who are the members! refuses to answer

    /


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    #75
    Omnipresence
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭Omnipresence


    OK ..

    WhoTF are Coir ?
    WhoTF are Youth Defense ?

    :confused:


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    #76
    Het-Field
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,350 ✭✭✭Het-Field


    Omnipresence wrote: »
    OK ..

    WhoTF are Coir ?
    WhoTF are Youth Defense ?

    :confused:

    Christian nutters, whose members consort with the far right (neo nazi's) of Italy, and Germany.

    On the radio this morning, Peter Murphy admitted to being a member of YD in his earlier days.

    They are the same, and share the same premisis.


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    #77
    Spiritoftheseventies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,082 ✭✭✭✭Spiritoftheseventies


    Het-Field wrote: »
    Christian nutters, whose members consort with the far right (neo nazi's) of Italy, and Germany.

    On the radio this morning, Peter Murphy admitted to being a member of YD in his earlier days.

    They are the same, and share the same premisis.
    Just heard Richard Greene on Last Word. He held back a bit on who its members were but re Youth Defence he said they shared the same building.
    If we are going to dismiss them out of hand we also have to put the same facts put out by Yes campaign under scrutiny.
    And what Greene said, to dispute a fact put out by Yes Campaign, on the show was that Foreign Investment over here had in fact increased since the Lisbon treaty No vote while in Spain it had dropped.
    Clip should be up online tomorrow. Around the twenty past five mark when you click on show.


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    #78
    Het-Field
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,350 ✭✭✭Het-Field


    bayviewclose wrote: »
    Just heard Richard Greene on Last Word. He held back a bit on who its members were but re Youth Defence he said they shared the same building.
    If we are going to dismiss them out of hand we also have to put the same facts put out by Yes campaign under scrutiny.
    And what Greene said, to dispute a fact put out by Yes Campaign, on the show was that Foreign Investment over here had in fact increased since the Lisbon treaty No vote while in Spain it had dropped.
    Clip should be up online tomorrow. Around the twenty past five mark when you click on show.

    Coir spokesperson Peter Murphy admitted to being a "Proud Youth Defencer" in his earlier days. Niamh Ui Bhrian was the Chairwoman of the group around 1992-1996. No To Nice leader was Justin Barrett (another former Chairperson).


    They are the same, under many different names


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    #79
    Spiritoftheseventies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,082 ✭✭✭✭Spiritoftheseventies


    Het-Field wrote: »
    Coir spokesperson Peter Murphy admitted to being a "Proud Youth Defencer" in his earlier days. Niamh Ui Bhrian was the Chairwoman of the group around 1992-1996. No To Nice leader was Justin Barrett (another former Chairperson).


    They are the same, under many different names
    Yes I think that was mentioned already in first page. anyway interview is on last word in case anyone is interested


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    #80
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    From the SIPO list of organisations involved in the 2003 abortion referendum:

    Mr. Justin Barrett,
    Mother and Child Campaign,
    60a Capel Street,
    Dublin 1.

    Pro-Life Alliance,
    60a Capel Street,
    Dublin 1.

    Youth Defence,
    60a Capel Street,
    Dublin 1.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #81
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    From the SIPO list of organisations involved in the 2003 abortion referendum:

    Mr. Justin Barrett,
    Mother and Child Campaign,
    60a Capel Street,
    Dublin 1.

    Pro-Life Alliance,
    60a Capel Street,
    Dublin 1.

    Youth Defence,
    60a Capel Street,
    Dublin 1.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw

    It's actually a pretty common political trick. One way of making your views look like they have more support is to have them put forward by two apparently separate groups. Or in this case, three.

    The other advantage is allowing for multiple levels of engagement, from that aimed at floating voters to that aimed at the most hardcore anti-abortion voter.


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    #82
    liberalsociety
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭liberalsociety


    Zuiderzee wrote: »
    What really turned me off Libertas was the Caroline Simmons connection, count me out for that.
    Youth Defence are people who I have fought with.
    They were helped by the church during abortion and divorce referendum, that is where there is a lot of money.

    But in balance, the Yes side are getting funding from multinationals, if we look under those stones we will again find dirt.

    And lobyists, The IIEA is run by Brendan Halligan, he also runs CIPA, a lobbyist company who have worked for the tobacco industry as one of their clients.
    Halligan fought our membership of the EEC when we joined.

    Having founded the IIEA he has made hundreds of thousands of Euro from Gov depts. .e. tax payers money.

    CIPA employed Andrew Byrne, founder of Generation Yes. Employees of CIPA or IIEA still do volunteer work for Gen Yes.
    But I do not associate all Gen Yes people with CIPA

    COIR sould have their funding looked at, as should Gen. Yes, who gave them the plush office?

    Not all of us promoting the Lisbon campaign receive corporate funding, perhaps you might be more comfortable with the liberal society which is a non aligned public advocacy group (registered with SIPO) which promotes liberal issues and progressive policies. Unlike some of the other campaigns we are stand alone, and not specifically set up for Lisbon. We have scraped by with little money but we have 278 members and we are growing. I have attached some of our poster images. We are looking for new independent minded people to join with us.

    www.liberals.ie


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    #83
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    liberalsociety wrote: »
    Not all of us promoting the Lisbon campaign receive corporate funding, so perhaps you might be more comfortable with the liberal society which is a non aligned public advocacy group which promotes liberal values and progressive policies. Unlike some of the other campaigns we are stand alone, and we were not specifically set up for Lisbon and we will be around after its finished. We have scraped by with little money but we have 278 members and we are growing. I have attached some of our poster images. We are looking for new independent minded people to join with us.

    www.liberals.ie

    Some nice pictures of girls, but a bit underwhelming really. How about 'You could have me if you vote Yes' :)

    Fair play for doing your bit though.


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    #84
    johnl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 207 ✭✭johnl


    liberalsociety wrote: »
    Not all of us promoting the Lisbon campaign receive corporate funding, perhaps you might be more comfortable with the liberal society which is a non aligned public advocacy group (registered with SIPO) which promotes liberal issues and progressive policies. Unlike some of the other campaigns we are stand alone, and not specifically set up for Lisbon. We have scraped by with little money but we have 278 members and we are growing. I have attached some of our poster images. We are looking for new independent minded people to join with us.

    www.liberals.ie

    Just to be clear, is this the new incarnation of the Young PDs, or something else entirely?


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    #85
    BlitzKrieg
    Registered Users Posts: 14,685 ✭✭✭✭BlitzKrieg


    I'm sorry but those voters will get ripped apart in the same way the *at the heart of europe* posters in the last referendum did.

    But thats a problem with promoting a yes vote, the specifics of the treaty are so unspectacular compared to the likes of Coir's lies that you are forced into doing essentially fluff posters.

    I mean you could do ones that have *For better enviromental protection* or *For a more efficent Union* but that will hardly get anyone's attention compared to *£1.84 new minimum wage after lisbon!*

    When you go fluff like those it looks like you are avoiding the issues and if you go with the specifics its uninteresting and complicated. If you try the same thing as the no campaign and go for possible scenarios (like the economy) you will be accused of scaremongering in the current climate (despite the opposition doing the exact same thing)

    The reality is when it comes to posters, the yes campaign is truely f*cked!


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    #86
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    BlitzKrieg wrote: »

    The reality is when it comes to posters, the yes campaign is truely f*cked!

    not unless the "wonderbra" lady makes a return ;)


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    #87
    BlitzKrieg
    Registered Users Posts: 14,685 ✭✭✭✭BlitzKrieg


    you know I think thats the first time I have ever been thanked by run to da hills?

    On the wonderbra, yeah that will go down the same way as *for the good of the economy*


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    #88
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    Have these "Liberals" got a thread up here ? Might make sense to have one just to keep things flowing better or something or is this going to be the general " posters" thread ?


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    #89
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    johnl wrote: »
    Just to be clear, is this the new incarnation of the Young PDs, or something else entirely?

    Afaik it's a rebirth on purer ideological lines rather than the much messier politics the PDs had to adopt after having to actually govern for a while. ;)


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    #90
    Spiritoftheseventies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,082 ✭✭✭✭Spiritoftheseventies


    nesf wrote: »
    Afaik it's a rebirth on purer ideological lines rather than the much messier politics the PDs had to adopt after having to actually govern for a while. ;)
    Yes I think if Coir are to be taken seriously they have to submit a list as requested by Matt Cooper yesterday on what their membership list comprises of for the sake of transparency. If they cant provide that then I see a problem.
    But folks there are others campaigning the No vote. Would hope for the sake of balance that we give them all the same amount of consideration and not zoom in on the cons of one organization.


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    #91
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    bayviewclose wrote: »
    Yes I think if Coir are to be taken seriously they have to submit a list as requested by Matt Cooper yesterday on what their membership list comprises of for the sake of transparency. If they cant provide that then I see a problem.
    But folks there are others campaigning the No vote. Would hope for the sake of balance that we give them all the same amount of consideration and not zoom in on the cons of one organization.

    Mistakenly replying to someone again I see! :p

    I agree that one shouldn't focus entirely on Coir as being representative of the No campaign, the issue however is that they make for easy "column inches" in newspapers and entertaining television/radio so you can expect them to get far far more coverage than they deserve.


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