Cóir - Good God, What are they good for?

marco_polo

RandomName2 wrote: »

Judging by the Yes posters the Political proponents of Libon are making it into a referendum of EU membership.

Except, of course, it isn't.

Thank God these people (who either do not understand the treaty or are deliberately distorting the issue) are not the only source of ratification.

To misquote South Park; 'We angered the EU and its vengence was economic recession. If we anger It again we will be thrust into the darkness for eternity .'

But, of course, Coir are the real nutters :rolleyes:

AuRevoir wrote: »

....Then I read the Fianna Fáil poster saying 'Yes for the economy' and I said to myself that couldn't be coming from the same hypocritical bunch that absolutely destroyed ours in the first place. Could it?? :eek:

I have selected you two as the lucky next contestants since the last contestant wouldn't play.

1) A list of Yes Campaigns whose websites clearly state that Ireland will be kicked out of the EU if we vote no again.

2) A list of No Campaigns whose websites do not mention any of the following three points. Abortion, Neutrality and Tax.

AuRevoir

marco_polo wrote: »

I have selected you two as the lucky next contestants since the last contestant wouldn't play.

1) A list of Yes Campaigns whose websites clearly state that Ireland will be kicked out of the EU if we vote no again.

2) A list of No Campaigns whose websites do not mention any of the following three points. Abortion, Neutrality and Tax.

What's stopping you from doing it yourself?

RandomName2

marco_polo wrote: »

I have selected you as the lucky next contestant since the last contestant wouldn't.

1) A list of Yes Campaigns whose websites clearly state that Ireland will be kicked out of the EU if we vote no again.

2) A list of No Campaigns whose websites do not mention any of the following three points. Abortion, Neutrality and Tax.

1) Bing. Look out your window at any street poster supporting Lisbon.

2) Boom. Who cares about non-government, barely poltical organisations who spin a line or two of the treaty into overarching statements concerning Irish sacred cows (indeed, including dairy cows)?

1) Oh wait. You mean a line like 'Vote Yes, I feel safer in the EU' can be interpreted as having nothing to do with EU membership? Good for you, contestant. Your prize? Why, simple! The economic recession will magically disappear and Ireland will be at 'the heart of Europe'. Do not worry, keep faith and this is what will happen, as it has been ordained by my government ... and the opposition...

RandomName2

AuRevoir wrote: »

What's stopping you from doing it yourself?

He was implying that I was making it up about the message peddled by our political representatives, and was also implying that the Irish electorate are all idiots obsessed with issues raised by Coir.

marco_polo

RandomName2 wrote: »

He was implying that I was making it up about the message peddled by our political representatives, and was also implying that the Irish electorate are all idiots obsessed with issues raised by Coir.

Just curious as to why there is a not the same levels of outrage over posters with claims about abortion, minimum wages of 1.84, tax and neutrality.

In your book the statement The EU is good for Ireland' carry the same level of offense as '1.84?'.

What I really find really interesting is that on one hand we are told ad nauseum that the guarantees do not address the real concerns of No voters. Yet the bulk of the No campaign still seems to be focused on attempts to undermine the guarantees with falsehoods. Coincidence?

I am wondering why there are no 'no campaigns' that concentrate soley on the true concerns of the voters. You know ones that that has no mention at all of either Tax, Neutrality or Abortion.

RandomName2

marco_polo wrote: »

I am wondering why there are no 'no campaigns' that concentrate soley on the true concerns of the voters. You know ones that that has no mention at all of either Tax, Neutrality or Abortion.

BECAUSE THE NO GROUPS ARE AS BAD A REPRESENTATION OF VOTERS AS OUR POLITICAL PARTIES!

I am not a member of Youth defence, not a socialist, and definately not a national-socialist, yet I, and the majority of the electorate is being lumped into these groupings.

At least these groups aren't sitting in the Dail... oh, except Sinn Fein that is.

meglome

AuRevoir wrote: »

....Then I read the Fianna Fáil poster saying 'Yes for the economy' and I said to myself that couldn't be coming from the same hypocritical bunch that absolutely destroyed ours in the first place. Could it?? :eek:

As I've already said, now that FF have wrecked the economy then I think it's fairly certain that we do need the EU more than ever. Although Lisbon has nothing to do with FF and what they did to the country.

tonycascarino

meglome wrote: »

As I've already said, now that FF have wrecked the economy then I think it's fairly certain that we do need the EU more than ever. Although Lisbon has nothing to do with FF and what they did to the country.

It's plain & simple really and I know I'm not the only one with this opinion... A yes would give our inept government an undeserved boost of confidence & allow them go on their merry way to destroy the economy even further...

fulltimeride

After taking to coir today I have learnt the people as clearly not very well educated and totally obnoxious.Like there website twists figures, like today there is 422,000 on the dole according to there website its 500,000.A big difference. I cant trust somebody that is lying. like that.There trying to scare people.Coir is clearly somebody who has taken there no vote too far.:mad::mad::mad:

ei.sdraob

fulltimeride wrote: »

After taking to coir today I have learnt the people as clearly not very well educated and totally obnoxious.Like there website twists figures, like today there is 422,000 on the dole according to there website its 500,000.A big difference. I cant trust somebody that is lying. like that.There trying to scare people.Coir is clearly somebody who has taken there no vote too far.:mad::mad::mad:

not only are they mad but the Church supports Lisbon

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61921933&postcount=2001

so that makes Coir heretics too?

meglome

tonycascarino wrote: »

It's plain & simple really and I know I'm not the only one with this opinion... A yes would give our inept government an undeserved boost of confidence & allow them go on their merry way to destroy the economy even further...

Okay I'm not getting your logic. Our government are ****e but voting against a treaty for that reason, a reason which has nothing whatsoever to do with the treaty is ridiculous. If a Yes vote gives the country a boost but as an indirect result gives FF a boost I can live with that. I would hate to think that our country would suffer just to allow you to get at FF.

Robbo

ei.sdraob wrote: »

not only are they mad but the Church supports Lisbon

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61921933&postcount=2001

so that makes Coir heretics too?

Something tells me that Coir wouldn't be too keen on the church after Vatican 2.

The Phoenix reckons that Justin Barrett and James "Farmers for No" Reynolds are into the full Tridentine mass experience.

Scofflaw

RandomName2 wrote: »

BECAUSE THE NO GROUPS ARE AS BAD A REPRESENTATION OF VOTERS AS OUR POLITICAL PARTIES!

I am not a member of Youth defence, not a socialist, and definately not a national-socialist, yet I, and the majority of the electorate is being lumped into these groupings.

At least these groups aren't sitting in the Dail... oh, except Sinn Fein that is.

Heck, we all get lumped in as FF acolytes and sheeple - when we're not labouring under the accusation that we're all paid quislings. Guilt by association is the main means of debate at this stage - you're standing next to COIR, we're standing next to Brian Cowen. Even the Treaty gets the guilt by association smear - look at all the No proponents who think they're best shot is calling for people to kick the EU to kick Cowen.


it's a hard knock life,
says Scofflaw

Gearoid1983

Well Meglome and ei.sdraob, regardless of what you both think of Coir, their posters are no lies. The men of 1916 helped found our Modern State through astounding bravery, a State that was meant to be one in which every worker had an equal stake not one that the Lisbon Treaty would enshrine where the declaration on workers rights is considered merely a political statement and not a legal guarantee. Secondly you only need to examine the multitude of news daily papers in web and hard copy form that confirm the viewpoint that the majority of Europeans would reject the E.U. Constitution/Treaty. Why else did Brown in Britain ratify via the Parliament instead of upholding his promise to put it to the people of the United Kingdom. Lastly our collective voting rights will be greatly reduced under the treaty. We may retain our commissioner and have some very dubious "declarations" which already been declared worthless by Lawyers in Prime Time debates but at the heart of it all the treaty is the same document. Our democracy is being subverted. Cóir are an easy target for the numerous Catholic bashing "Liberals" who want to roll over the democratic wishes of the people of Ireland.

Dinner

Gearoid1983 wrote: »

Our democracy is being subverted. Cóir are an easy target for the numerous Catholic bashing "Liberals" who want to roll over the democratic wishes of the people of Ireland.

And the lies on their posters, of course.

oscarBravo

Gearoid1983 wrote: »

Our democracy is being subverted.

...by referendum.

You couldn't make it up.

PHB

You know what I find hilarious about the think of our past heroes thing.

They were the political leaders of their days. People respected them and followed their opinions.
How come we don't tar them with the same brush that we tar our leaders of today?

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that those leaders of today would be by in large voting yes to the Lisbon Treaty, just like their successors in their various parties are now.

---

You know what else I find hilarious? The two major partys that union members vote for in the general are Fianna Fail and Labour. They both support the Lisbon Treaty. The Charter for Fundamental Rights is a big step forward for Workers' Rights in the EU. Beyond that, as Labour have noted, over 90% of Workers' Rights legislation has come from the EU, not our national government.
The EU helped push Workers Rights forward. Just like they did with Gender Equality.

Stark

tonycascarino wrote: »

It's plain & simple really and I know I'm not the only one with this opinion... A yes would give our inept government an undeserved boost of confidence & allow them go on their merry way to destroy the economy even further...

Meanwhile the EU is contributing funds to help fix our economy while overseeing the actions of the Irish Government to make sure they don't break it further. But of course, you can vote No in order to give 27 countries a bloody nose while you're lashing out at our government at home, thus undermining the goodwill we have within Europe, such is your prerogative.

johnl

Yes posters:

Safer in Europe,
Vote yes for economy,
Isn't it simple?


No posters:

Pearse, Connolly, Tone,
They died to give you freedom.
Vote No. Abortion.

patrickthomas

johnl wrote: »

Yes posters:

Safer in Europe,
Vote yes for economy,
Isn't it simple?


No posters:

Pearse, Connolly, Tone,
They died to give you freedom.
Vote No. Abortion.

What does vote no. abortion mean?

Stark

Cóir's claim is that the EU will force abortion on us unless we vote No. Needless to say, it's a bald faced lie like much of their campaign.

ei.sdraob

Gearoid1983 wrote: »

Well Meglome and ei.sdraob, regardless of what you both think of Coir, their posters are no lies. The men of 1916 helped found our Modern State through astounding bravery, a State that was meant to be one in which every worker had an equal stake not one that the Lisbon Treaty would enshrine where the declaration on workers rights is considered merely a political statement and not a legal guarantee. Secondly you only need to examine the multitude of news daily papers in web and hard copy form that confirm the viewpoint that the majority of Europeans would reject the E.U. Constitution/Treaty. Why else did Brown in Britain ratify via the Parliament instead of upholding his promise to put it to the people of the United Kingdom. Lastly our collective voting rights will be greatly reduced under the treaty. We may retain our commissioner and have some very dubious "declarations" which already been declared worthless by Lawyers in Prime Time debates but at the heart of it all the treaty is the same document. Our democracy is being subverted. Cóir are an easy target for the numerous Catholic bashing "Liberals" who want to roll over the democratic wishes of the people of Ireland.

I dont give a **** about Gordon Brown

he is not my prime minister

and from what I hear hes party is now less popular than FF is here

thats some feat

---

oh and please do explain how exactly does Lisbon "subvert our democracy"?

the ball is in your court

patrickthomas

Stark wrote: »

Cóir's claim is that the EU will force abortion on us unless we vote No. Needless to say, it's a bald faced lie like much of their campaign.

Is it the garuntees that garuntee this?

Stark

Refer to the answers from myself and Scofflaw on the other thread. The guarantees, although legally binding from when the next EU accession treaty is signed, only serve to clarify existing Constitutional arrangements.

Wheely

Gearoid1983 wrote: »

Well Meglome and ei.sdraob, regardless of what you both think of Coir, their posters are no lies. The men of 1916 helped found our Modern State through astounding bravery, a State that was meant to be one in which every worker had an equal stake not one that the Lisbon Treaty would enshrine where the declaration on workers rights is considered merely a political statement and not a legal guarantee. Secondly you only need to examine the multitude of news daily papers in web and hard copy form that confirm the viewpoint that the majority of Europeans would reject the E.U. Constitution/Treaty. Why else did Brown in Britain ratify via the Parliament instead of upholding his promise to put it to the people of the United Kingdom. Lastly our collective voting rights will be greatly reduced under the treaty. We may retain our commissioner and have some very dubious "declarations" which already been declared worthless by Lawyers in Prime Time debates but at the heart of it all the treaty is the same document. Our democracy is being subverted. Cóir are an easy target for the numerous Catholic bashing "Liberals" who want to roll over the democratic wishes of the people of Ireland.

Guffaw......................:D

dvpower

Gearoid1983 wrote: »

Well Meglome and ei.sdraob, regardless of what you both think of Coir, their posters are no lies.

If you believe that the minimum wage is going to be €1.84 after Lisbon, by all means vote No.
You could ride your unicorn down to the polling station.

BlitzKrieg

patrickthomas wrote: »

Is it the garuntees that garuntee this?

nope its protocol 35 that protects the irish position on abortion.

PROTOCOL (No 35)
ON ARTICLE 40.3.3 OF THE CONSTITUTION OF IRELAND THE HIGH CONTRACTING PARTIES, HAVE AGREED upon the following provision, which shall be annexed to the Treaty on European Union and to the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union and to the Treaty establishing the European Atomic Energy Community: Nothing in the Treaties, or in the Treaty establishing the European Atomic Energy Community, or in the Treaties or Acts modifying or supplementing those Treaties, shall affect the application in Ireland of Article 40.3.3 of the Constitution of Ireland.

That protocol has been around for years, so aboriton was never in danger.


But some people dont listen and pather on that somehow with lisbon the protocol is now void, so a gaurantee was done up reiterating the EU's position on the Irish abortion issue.

Wheely

patrickthomas wrote: »

Is it the garuntees that garuntee this?

I think this has been covered with you on the GEN YES thread no?

patrickthomas

Wheely wrote: »

I think this has been covered with you on the GEN YES thread no?

Yeah it has thanks, got a really slow internet connection......

johnl

patrickthomas wrote: »

What does vote no. abortion mean?

It's a comment on how they're connecting rather unrelated items together.
The little haikus aren't meant to be taken too seriously

It's almost as if Cóir and friends think the whole Irish freedom struggle was solely in aid of being able to outlaw abortion
Sadly, they seem to be having a marginally more effective campaign than Yes again.
The whole campaign, on both sides, this time is EVEN worse than last time.