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The "memorisation / regurgitation vs. understanding / thinking" debate revisited!
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Look, I didn't even bother to read this thread, principally because it is just not worthy of discussion.
There is a simple answer to your question: the secondary education system is clearly embracing the independent thought approach. This is a good thing, it will prevent you from failing when you go to college (if you managed to get into college).
To answer your implicit question, in a broader sense, this is a good thing. Critical thinking is what separates the regurgitating masses from their A1 peers.
There is really no debate to be had here.
Hmm because I'm sure no one who rote learned their geography got an A1
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actually geography was the only subject i did it for, we were warned in other subjects not to.well in all fairness, no amount of rote learning is going to help you become a better midwife, while it may help in exams...you quoting that 16% of manufacture is located in dublin, isn't going to help some woman in labour!!
LOL
but seriously, good luck you deserved to get to where you wanted to go!(even if it did involve you doing a bit of rote learning\0
so yes using your brain is the way to go:(:(
now my head hurts from all this thnking, think i need to lie down:eek::)0 -
randylonghorn wrote: »Fair enough ... ... but this is meant to be marks for coherence on the part of the candidate i.e. that the candidate can tie these points together because s/he understands them.
If it becomes obvious to the examiner that it is someone else entirely (i.e. a teacher / tutor) who has pre-prepared the answer, and "pre-cohered" (excuse the murder of the English language!
) the answers for the candidate, should these marks be awarded?
I am not familiar with the geography syllabus or exam, but from the discussion here, you're probably right.
The coherence marks only apply in the option question, the longest essay which is worth 80 marks out of 400 in the written exam.In this 80, about 16-18 marks of the essay go on coherence itself. For the rest of the marks in other sections, 80 go to short questions, and 240 for shorter essays. These shorter essays are marked solely on significant relevant points and diagrams, so there is no means for the standard of the essay to be judged really, unless it is not related to the question asked, where marks would be lost.
Your argument about the coherence being achieved by the student is a good one, and a sensible one, but I'd say examiners are marking coherence based on the essay's coherence, not how coherent the students themselves are.0 -
That's obvious.Look, I didn't even bother to read this thread.
Actually ....well in all fairness, no amount of rote learning is going to help you become a better midwife ...
Anything medical or medical related does tend to rely a lot on rote learning.
If someone starts to haemorhage for example you need to be able to remember all the possible causes, you don't normally have time to sit down and look them up in a book.
On the other hand, deciding which is the most likely cause in this case is where it comes down to you using your brain and thinking ability.
And you tend to be back to rote learning for "how to treat".
Which demonstrates very clearly I suppose that in life there is a place for rote learning and a place for critical thinking ... we actually need both of them in the right balance.
A lot of this thread really has been about what different people think is an acceptable balance ...0 -
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You see, you're not used to it! :Pnow my head hurts from all this thnking, think i need to lie down:eek::)
(I'm joking, I'm joking!)
I'm not a 100% sure, but I think it might have been a query / complaint about the marking of that one which started all this.The coherence marks only apply in the option question, the longest essay which is worth 80 marks out of 400 in the written exam.
Oh I'd say they are too ... until they fall across basically the same answer a second or even a third time, and it rings a bell.Your argument about the coherence being achieved by the student is a good one, and a sensible one, but I'd say examiners are marking coherence based on the essay's coherence, not how coherent the students themselves are.
And it will ... you would be surprised! 0 -
randylonghorn wrote: »That's not really what we're on about, leesmom.
Kinda is actually. I got an A1 in geography and I'll tell you this, there is a hell of a lot of understanding in order to learn off notes on plate tectonics not to mind manufacturin industry in Dublin!0 -
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randylonghorn wrote: »Oh I'd say they are too ... until they fall across basically the same answer a second or even a third time, and it rings a bell.
And it will ... you would be surprised!
Ya, but I don't know if they could actually discriminate because of this.The answer, learned off or not, was still learned by candidate, and commited to paper by the candidate, so it was knowledge in their heads for at least some period of time. Maybe they can dock coherence for this reason, but seen as the coherence marks account for about 16 out of 400 marks in the written, it doesn't give them much scope for punishing regurgitation! :pac:0 -
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There seems to be an assumption here that students who rote learn can't think for themselves in an exam. Its possible to learn off essays in geography and adapt them to suit the question being asked, because as we all know questions on the geography syllabus can be asked in many different ways. If you have learnt off geography essays prior to the exam you'll spend less time in the exam thinking of how to structure your points as you'll just be able to write everything you know straight onto the paper. If it makes it easier for you in the exam i really don't see the harm in learning off whole essays. Why make things more difficult than they have to be??
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MmmmmCheese wrote: »There seems to be an assumption here that students who rote learn can't think for themselves in an exam. Its possible to learn off essays in geography and adapt them to suit the question being asked, because as we all know questions on the geography syllabus can be asked in many different ways. If you have learnt off geography essays prior to the exam you'll spend less time in the exam thinking of how to structure your points as you'll just be able to write everything you know straight onto the paper. If it makes it easier for you in the exam i really don't see the harm in learning off whole essays. Why make things more difficult than they have to be??
As I said alrady the geography exam is a ****ing cod timing wise. 2hrs 50 minutes is not enough.0 -
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Why though? What is so wrong with it? If you make your own notes there's the risk that you haven't included enough relevant points, or you might have made it too long which would lead to you being stuck for time in the exam. If an essay your teacher gives is guarunteed to get you maximum marks then it would be madness to stick your nose up at it! Its been said before that this may make you unprepared for the work you will have to do in college, but college and school are two very different things. In college the subjects you study will (hopefully) interest you and you'll be more willing to do your own research. But as for the leaving cert I'm perfectly happy learning the notes my teacher gives me! 0
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Em, the fact that the teacher is getting marked, not you?MmmmmCheese wrote: »Why though? What is so wrong with it?
So do your own work, and get the teacher to correct / advise. That way you deserve your mark, and your essay won't be the same as 25 others ...MmmmmCheese wrote: »If you make your own notes there's the risk that you haven't included enough relevant points, or you might have made it too long which would lead to you being stuck for time in the exam.
All that said, as I said earlier, I don't really blame the students. Under pressure, ofc you lot are going to grab any apparent advantage or short cut.
Any blame I would put on the way the exams are set up / on the hyperpressure about points / the system itself, basically.0 -
randylonghorn wrote: »Em, the fact that the teacher is getting marked, not you?.
Meh Bovvered?
The fact thats its not my own work doesnt particularly bother me. I'm not very passionate about the subject and added too my dislike of the education system, I don't feel in any way guilty about it.0 -
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