FIA Launch Investigation into 'alleged events' at 2008 Singapore GP

Ghost Train

Gintonious wrote: »

Piquet is saying that he has nothing to fear with all of this,i think he does cause he is sealing the coffin with his F1 career in it,suppose it doesnt matter much really though cause he is rubbish.

Well its a lot of publicity for him, would be interesting to see how he'd perform in another team, you never know with f1 and sponsers and money. He's a young driver and if the team were telling him to do it, tough situation to be put in and he made a good job of destroying the car. Other drivers not going like the it though, pretty risky and doesn't reflect well on the sport

Frank Bullitt

Exactly,he is damaging his reputation,its not good as it is anyway because IMO he is useless and has only gotten this far on the strength of his sponsorship rather than skill(a team was set up for him to race in GP2).

Saying that though,its very likely that he will end up in a new team,but his credibility has gone very far down I cant see him ever driving for a competitive team.

Charlie-Bravo

Ghost Train wrote: »

Well its a lot of publicity for him, would be interesting to see how he'd perform in another team...

Yes it would be interesting alright...but the first instance I never liked Piquet Jnr. was when he complained about a Rookie's car (Buemi) rear ending him at Sainte Devote in Monaco, then a couple of weeks later in Turkey he couldn't bother to keep his car on the track at turn 8 - he wasn't anywhere near anyone else! Flav really didn;t like his 'excuses'; I'm not a team manager, but neither did I.

He is cocky, but not the right kind of cocky. Maybe that's why he's in such a mess?!

LIGHTNING wrote: »

...As a footnote Bourdais won his first race Superleague, good man!

Without going too much off topic, I like Bourdais..at least he deserves a shot in a different car in F1.

Ghost Train

I agree he never showed anything special really, one lucky second place and had a lot of races to prove himself. But probably one of the most difficult teams and team mates to start your career with. Would be surprised if he does get some sort of drive next year, but wouldn't rule it out completely

mickdw

Sky news reporting that FIA are offering Pat simmons immunity if he comes forward with the true story of events that took place. This is interesting.
I think Max mosley and his long term friend piquet senior are out to finish off Flavio. I cannot say that Im sorry either.
Pat simmons seems like a genuine type of guy whereas flav seems to be a bit of an ass hole.
I think flavio has no where to go here. It will be proven that they fixed that race, simmons will be alllowed walk away, Piquet will come off badly and flavio will be finished at least in relation to any hopes he had of moving into a more controling role in F1.

Ghost Train

Heres details of the teams radio the times have published

In the early part of the race, there were several exchanges between Symonds and the engineers about Alonso’s race strategy, with Symonds preparing the ground to drop the original three-stop approach and change it to a two-stop strategy that would better fit with any plan for Piquet to crash.

“I can tell you now we are not three-stopping,” Symonds is heard to say on the transcript made by the FIA as part of its evidence in the case, a copy of which has been seen by The Times.

Later Symonds adds to an unnamed engineer: “Don’t worry about fuel because I’m going to get him [Alonso] out of this traffic earlier than that.”

Not long afterwards comes an unusual intervention from Piquet, who was running towards the back of the field in the early stages of Formula One’s first night race. But the novelty factor for him was not the floodlights. It has now been suggested that he was worried about which lap he was on because he knew he had special instructions for lap 14.

Piquet says: “What lap are we in, what lap are we in?”

A few seconds later an engineer tells the others on the wall: “He just asked what lap are we in.”

Symonds intervenes: “Yeah, tell him that he’s about to complete lap 8.”

Symonds insists Piquet is then told something he should know from his pitboard, which is shown to him at the end of every lap. “No, just tell him, he is about, he’s just completing, he’s about to complete lap eight.”

After Piquet is given the information, the discussion returns to the timing of Alonso’s first stop and Symonds makes his decision. “Right, I’m going to . . . I think we’re going to stop him just before we catch him [a reference to the Williams driver, Kazuki Nakajima, who was ahead of Alonso] and get him out of it, the reason being we’ve still got this worry on the fuel pump. It’s only a couple of laps short. We’re going to be stopping him early and we’re going to go to lap 40.”

This decision prompts a puzzled question from an engineer, who wants assurance from Symonds that a tactical option that would drop Alonso to last place it the right thing to do. “Pat, do you still not think that this is a bit too early?” he asks a few minutes later. “We only did six tenths that lap.”

Symonds replies: “No, no it’s going to be all right.”

“OK, OK, understood,” the engineer responds.

Once Alonso has made his stop, Symonds tells everybody that it is time to “concentrate on” Piquet. After assessing the Brazilian’s position, he and Briatore decide Piquet has to quicken up as the fateful lap draws near.

Symonds to the engineer: “OK right, you’ve got to push him really bloody hard now. If he doesn’t get past Barrichello, he’s going nowhere, he’s got to get past Barrichello this lap.”

“Tell him, push . . .,” Briatore says.

Piquet’s race engineer gives him the hurry-up: “Nelson, no excuses now, you’ve got to get past Barrichello. You’ve got four clicks straight-line advantage. Come on, you’ve got to push now, you must get past him.”

Moments later Piquet crashes at turn 17, where there are no cranes to lift the wreckage, making a safety car inevitable, and at the point at which he alleges Symonds told him to do the deed during a meeting before the race.

Multiple voices: “Nelson’s off. F***ing hell. Nelson’s had a crash. I would say that would be a red flag. It’s huge [all speaking at the same time] .

Piquet: “Sorry guys. I had a little outing.”

Engineer: “Is he all right, Is he all right?”

Symonds: “Ask him if he’s all right.”

Engineer: “Are you OK? Are you OK?”

Engineer: “Fernando’s just gone past it.”

Engineer: “OK, yellow flag.”

Piquet: “Yeah, I hit my head in the back. I think I’m OK.”

Engineer: “OK, understood.”

Symonds: “Right [inaudible], stop him.”

Engineer: “Safety car, safety car, safety car, safety car. Fernando, safety car, mixture three.”

Symonds: “Tell him to be careful, turn 17 I think it is.”

After several exchanges about Alonso, an engineer expresses concern, presumably after seeing the crash on the television monitor, but Briatore seems unconcerned and is angry with Piquet.

Engineer: “F***ing hell that was a big shunt.”

Briatore: “F***ing hell . . . my every f***ing disgrace, f***ing, he’s not a driver.”

Then Symonds asks about Alonso’s improving prospects.

Symonds: “What position is Fernando in?”

Engineer: “Well, we were 20, and we’re first guy to pick the safety car up.”

Symonds: “Yeah, we’re not . . .”

Engineer: “He will get away past it but he’s got to wait.”

Later Briatore and Symonds discuss Alonso’s chances. “What position we are now in all this?” asks Briatore.

Symonds replies: “To be honest, I don’t know Flavio. It’s got to have been good for Fernando. But I honestly don’t know where he is.”

In the final part of the transcript, several minutes after the crash, the team return to the subject of Piquet and his condition and at this stage Briatore adds his own concern for the Brazilian driver’s welfare.

Engineer: “Where is Nelson? Have you seen him?”

Briatore: “Is he OK, Nelson? Is he OK?”

Alonso: “The pitlane is closed until we arrive?”

Engineer: “He climbed out, mate, and ran across the track.”

Engineer: “Yeah, the pitlane is still closed.”

Taken as a whole the transcript does not provide a killer-blow against Symonds or Briatore and could be read either way.

The FIA is known to be particularly concerned that the alleged conspiracy not only amounted to cheating but also involved a reckless act that could have resulted in injury or loss of life.

The pitwall recording shows that, on this score, the Renault team were also extremely concerned about Piquet’s safety.

EvilMonkey

Max is gunning for Flavio probably his last major action before stepping down.
I wonder if Simmons will take the deal.

thebman

You'd need to hear the tone of the voices to see if they are genuinely saying those things TBH.

Radio quality might be too bad for that too.

Ghost Train

Got to love all the leaks from the FIA

Telemetry from the crash, although not too much use without something to compare it to
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00614/Piquetcrash_614101a.pdf

Some details of Symonds interview

Early in the interviews with Symonds, he was asked about the meeting with Piquet before the race. “What do you recall being said to Nelson Piquet Jr at that meeting? This is shortly before the race?” Symonds replied: “I don’t really remember.” The investigator pressed him: “You don’t really remember?” Symonds: “No.” The exchange continued: Steward: “Nelson Piquet Jr says he was asked by you to cause a deliberate crash. Is that true?” Symonds: “Nelson spoke to me the day before and suggested that. That’s all I’d really like to say.” Steward: “Mr Symonds, are you aware that there was going to be a crash on lap 14?” Symonds: “I don’t want to answer that question.”

Then came questions about the specific allegations that Symonds took Piquet to one side after the meeting in Briatore’s office to show him on a circuit map where to crash. Again Symonds is determined not to be drawn:Steward: “Mr Piquet Jr says, having had the initial meeting with you and Flavio Briatore, you then met with him individually with the map of the circuit. Do you remember that? Symonds: “I won’t answer. Rather not answer that. I don’t recall it, but it sounds like Nelson’s talked a lot more about it.” Steward: “Mr Piquet Jr also says that at that meeting, you pointed out a specific place on the circuit where he was to have the accident and said it was because it was the furthest away from any of the safety or lifting equipment, and gave the most likely chance of a safety car being deployed.” Symonds: “I don’t . . . I don’t want to answer that question.”

Later it was put to Symonds that the stewards may draw conclusions from, as they put it, his “unwillingness to assist them” in relation to what had gone on prior to the race.

Symonds accepts this is a likely outcome of his failure to address the key issues. “I would expect them to. I would absolutely expect that,” he told them.

Grim.

from crash.net

The evidence against Renault in Formula 1's highly damaging 'Singapore-gate' race-fixing scandal is mounting up, after the Régie's executive director of engineering Pat Symonds refused to deny that the team had instructed Nelsinho Piquet to crash on lap 14 of the top flight's inaugural night race in the Far-Eastern city-state just under a year ago.

The interview between Symonds and investigators for governing body the FIA took place over the weekend of the Belgian Grand Prix at Spa-Francorchamps (Drive Spa-Francorchamps on Need for Speed Shift: Out Friday) at the end of last month. In it, the Englishman neglected to answer key questions surrounding the circumstances that saw Piquet collide heavily with the Marina Bay street circuit's concrete wall, ripping two wheels off his car and prompting a safety car period that vaulted then Renault team-mate Fernando Alonso from outside the top ten into the race lead, from where the double F1 World Champion would never look back en route to victory – a success that some believe was pivotal to convincing the French manufacturer to remain in the sport.

The principal issue upon which Symonds declined to comment centred around whether or not a meeting took place before the grand prix in the office of Renault F1 managing director Flavio Briatore in which Piquet was instructed to deliberately crash, and notified by the team's executive director of engineering of the precise point on the circuit at which he should do so to produce the best effect.

'Had there been no substance to the allegations made by [Piquet] and put to Mr. Symonds, it would have been straightforward for Mr. Symonds to deny them,' read a leaked report from the stewards to the FIA, published by The Times. According to the transcript obtained by the British newspaper, the meeting went as follows:

Investigator: “What do you recall being said to Nelson Piquet Jr at that meeting? This is shortly before the race.”

Symonds: “I don't really remember.”

Investigator: “You don't really remember?”

Symonds: “No.”

Investigator: “Nelson Piquet Jr says he was asked by you to cause a deliberate crash. Is that true?”

Symonds: “Nelson spoke to me the day before and suggested that. That's all I'd really like to say.”

Investigator: “Mr. Symonds, are you aware that there was going to be a crash on lap 14?”

Symonds: “I don't want to answer that question.”

Investigator: “Mr. Piquet Jr says, having had the initial meeting with you and Flavio Briatore, you then met with him individually with the map of the circuit. Do you remember that?”

Symonds: “I won't answer. Rather not answer that. I don't recall it, but it sounds like Nelson's talked a lot more about it.”

Investigator: “Mr. Piquet Jr also says that at that meeting, you pointed out a specific place on the circuit where he was to have the accident and said it was because it was the furthest away from any of the safety or lifting equipment, and gave the most likely chance of a safety car being deployed.”

Symonds: “I don't...I don't want to answer that question.”

Symonds went on to acknowledge that he, Piquet and Briatore had all played a part in the discussions that took place – but stopped short of admitting that he had personally asked the Brazilian to have an accident. Renault continues to refute all of the allegations, with the FIA's World Motor Sport Council (WMSC) due to meet in Paris on Monday (21 September) to deliberate over the team's fate.

Slutmonkey57b

Shocking stuff on the one hand and as usual shockingly handled by the FIA. Ed gorman in the Times noted that every one of the "leak" days happened on a day when Ari Vanaten was holding press conferences .... two birds with one stone.

D_BEAR

Renault have issued the following press release on Wednesday:

The ING Renault F1 Team will not dispute the recent allegations made by the FIA concerning the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix.

It also wishes to state that its managing director, Flavio Briatore and its executive director of engineering, Pat Symonds, have left the team.

Before attending the hearing before the FIA World Motor Sport Council in Paris on 21 September 2009, the team will not make any further comment.

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/9/9940.html

thebman

Holy crap :eek:

dcr22B

Brilliant, hopefully they'll pull the plug on Formula Yawn and develop a Renault Megane WRC car for 2011.

Ghost Train

Interesting stuff... I wonder renault have given them the boot or was there a disagreement about the line the team would take for the hearing or something

I guess its just renault trying to distance themselves from the team members involved

who will be on the pit wall next race I wonder?

and will Flavio and Pat still be at this hearing or still face punishment?

Frank Bullitt

They probably did this to lessen the punishment,hopefully there wont be a big one imposed,dont want another team to leave

G-Money

Sounds like there might have been some truth to it after all.

De Hipster

This is getting more interesting ...

From BBC Sport

Flavio Briatore has left his position as boss of the Renault team after they decided not to contest charges of fixing the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix.

Executive director of engineering Pat Symonds has also left the team.

Renault were summoned by governing body, the FIA, after Nelson Piquet Jr claimed he had been asked to crash to help team-mate Fernando Alonso's race.

It is not known if Renault must still face the World Motor Sport Council in Paris on Monday to answer the charges

Renault had been called to answer charges that they "conspired with its driver, Nelson Piquet Jr, to cause a deliberate crash at the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix with the aim of causing the deployment of the safety car to the advantage of its other driver, Fernando Alonso."

Piquet crashed two laps after the Spaniard had come in for a routine pit stop.

That meant that when race officials sent out the safety car to clear up the debris from Piquet's car, Alonso was alone among the front-runners in not having to stop for fuel and tyres.

Renault's double world champion went on to take the chequered flag at Formula 1's inaugural night race and claim his first victory in two years.

More soon

Slutmonkey57b

Same tactic McLaren employed - punt out the obviously guilty in favour of protecting the whole team, and give Max the sacrificial thorn in his side he's looking for.

Having said that, both Flav, Symonds and Piquet deserve to be hung out to dry for doing it in the first place. There's cheating, and there's rule breaking, and then there's this. Piquet will hopefully find that immunity has done him precisely no good whatsoever in his career.

smooch71

Max will be smiling to himself on this one. Loony indeed.......

thebman

Well they'll have to turn up to see who else was involved like you know did Alonso know?

And if so who else? How far does this go within Renault and how many heads need to roll in the team.

I think their time in F1 is over really. The FIA will just keep going after them if this is the attitude they have toward the sport.

smokingman

Barichello said before the last race that "someone really wants Briatore head", and I have to agree with him. Briatore was the one looking to take over from Max Mosely during the year with all the Fota problems and revenge seems to have been served.

I'm still hoping Renault stay in the sport tho.

EvilMonkey

I would say this is Renault trying to save there reputation.

I think it is the right move from Renault. Having Flav and Pat put up some crappy defence, when from the leaked evidence and this its clear they are guilty as sin, would only further damage Renault.

BaZmO*

thebman wrote: »

Well they'll have to turn up to see who else was involved like you know did Alonso know?

I don't think so, unless he's a great actor. Did you see the clip of him speaking to Briatore after the race in the post race room? He kept saying to him, "I can't believe the safety car came out, it won me the race" or something to that affect.

It'd make you think what were Renault thinking sacking Piquet the way they did if he had that on them?

thebman

I didn't see that. You'd have to ask why did he accept the race pit stop strategy if he didn't know though. It dropped him to last. What did the team say to him to get him on board with the strategy I wonder.

I agree, sacking Piquet seems to have been a silly move. I think they presumed he'd stay quiet because of how it would effect his own career too. They presumed wrong obviously.

Kersh

I always thought the pair of them (Symonds and Flav) were cheating fuks. Ever since the illegal traction control on Schumis Benetton in 94. Cheating Cheating B*astards. Alonso ought to resign too....

BoardsRanger

Kersh wrote: »

Alonso ought to resign too....

Thats bullsh*t!! Who says Alonso was in on it? Im pretty sure he wasnt, Nelson didnt mention him and neither did anyone else! He also appeared post race to know nothing about the ploy, otherwise he wouldnt have mentioned the safety car when the cameras were on him!

Kersh

He has a say in how much fuel he put in before the race, and 14 laps is very very low, considering it was a street circuit. why would such an experienced driver put in so little? He ought to leave the team now and save his reputation, cos mud sticks in that game.

Grim.

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Flavio and Symonds have just announced that they have quit the team.

delighted to see flavio gone hav always hated him

Kersh

We know... thats why I said 'too' in ref to Alonso quitting!!!

BoardsRanger

Kersh wrote: »

He has a say in how much fuel he put in before the race, and 14 laps is very very low, considering it was a street circuit. why would such an experienced driver put in so little? He ought to leave the team now and save his reputation, cos mud sticks in that game.

Whatever about leaving the team, perhaps he should. With regards to the fuel load, he most likely went along with Symonds recommendations and his race engineers directions. A F1 driver in F1 only has minimal imput with regards to race stratagies.

Kersh

Thats what I meant by him quitting. Save his own career. I do think he knew though. But he will get away with it. Renault will be taken over by Prodrive now. Dave Richards will be team boss.

Grim.

LIGHTNING wrote: »

How did you get on in the trophy race on Sunday? I didnt get a chance to talk to you. I did however did see a certain green car in the gravel trap in the esses causing a red flag though

rofl

Kersh

How did you get on in the trophy race on Sunday? I didnt get a chance to talk to you. I did however did see a certain green car in the gravel trap in the esses causing a red flag though

Suffered with Pad knockoff all race (all day really), eventually it caught me out. Car was very taily too. Pity the other driver decided to sit in the car and force the red flag, he should be used to knocks, he has had a few this year, mainly into me, and always unpunished, but sure, thats racing.

Kersh

Ye I know, Gavin Barr had it at Paddock and it threw him off at Dunlop on Saturday in race 1. Damien got a few scares too!!

kaizersoze

Will ye shag off and discuss ye're excursions somewhere else.:p

muckwarrior

Yeah, where's a mod when you need one... oh wait..

G-Money

Getting back to the topic of the thread....

This whole thing definitely looks bad for Renault. I think the fact that Pat and Flavio have gone and Renault won't dispute the charges is effectively an admission of guilt. I also read the questions that were posed to Symonds which someone else posted earlier in this thread and it looks very bad. He pretty much said "yes" when he kept saying "I don't want to answer that question".

It's a shame as F1 has had enough trouble this year, what with the "lying scandal" at McLaren, the proposed breakaway, and now this. I'm undecided as to whether I like or dislike Flavio, but Pat Symonds always seemed like he was a sound, calm guy.

I suspect they might not get away with it as easily as McLaren did when lying to the stewards. I think the FIA and stuff are keen to point out the danger to the driver, other drivers, the marshalls and spectators by asking someone to crash.

But then with Renault supposed to be teetering on the edge of leaving F1, who knows what's going to happen. Throw into the mix that Flavio and Bernie are good mates, and whether Alonso was in on it and what that might mean for his move to Ferrari if he was, it's all intriguing.

Monday will be interesting.

G-Money

muckwarrior wrote: »

Yeah, where's a mod when you need one... oh wait..

Yeah, how come Mods are allow to chat off topic but the rest of us would get a draconian ban?

Slutmonkey57b

Despite Flav & Symonds leaving, if the FIA don't ban renault for this then there'll be no doubt that F1 is rotten to the core (in ways we don't already know it's rotten). If McLaren were kicked out of the constructors for discussing something a Ferrari designer sent them, then what's the punishment for race fixing, endangering innocent lives, and making a mockery of the sport? Assume that nobody got caught up in the crash - did you see the video where Piquet had to run across the track to get out, because there was no exit on his side, on a blind corner? Even under safety car conditions they're still doing 60 or so.

vectra

thebman

I think Renault will go no doubts in my mind.

No shortage of teams and drivers that want in for next year.

thebman

vectra wrote: »

lol that image alone is why ING will not be sponsoring :-/

They'd be as well to ask Renault to take the name off now.

vectra

thebman wrote: »

lol that image alone is why ING will not be sponsoring :-/

They'd be as well to ask Renault to take the name off now.

LOL
Better still
The Pit board man knew about it as well

vectra

LIGHTNING wrote: »

*Readies his group banning button*

Those cheating gif`s are great I cant wait to see what else pops ups over the next few days.

Yup, I am watching for them

Ghost Train

Can't see the FIA stopping them racing (unless maybe for a few races), could take away all their points for this season and fine them. Maybe they'll be forced to take Nelson back

Are Renault really about to leave F1 or is this something Bernie just said so they might get an easier ride

One thing in their favour is that they're not going to fight it like McLaren did which may give the FIA an excuse to go easy on them and keep them in the sport. Maybe that was why there were all the leaks.

Slutmonkey57b

McLaren didn't fight it - in fact, Ron Dennis went to the FIA, not the other way around.
The difference is, as was obvious at the time, that Ron was the target, not the offence (since Renault got no punishment).

The FIA's credibility hangs in the balance here. They don't have much of it. If Renault "get away" with anything less than a huge multiple of McLaren's punishment, we know that rules, laws and safety count for nothing.

EvilMonkey

Renault are heavily involved in GP2 and other series I cant see them being pushed out by the FIA.
As far as I can tell the FIA believe only Piquet, Symonds and Briatore knew about this. So I can see Renault getting a big fine maybe banned from constructors championship but allowed to continue without a ban from racing.
I guess Briatore and Symonds will get bans.

Delta Kilo

EvilMonkey wrote: »

I guess Briatore and Symonds will get bans.

The two of them were sacked by Renault.

Ghost Train

Delta Kilo wrote: »

The two of them were sacked by Renault.

Well its says they left... which could mean they walked but would imagine they were sacked

probably important for symonds to get a ban as he might be a target for another team looking to gain some info about the technology or engineering of the renault f1 cars