Club or Country

Mr Maroon

For me it's:

Galway United
Juventus




Ireland

GLaDOS

I find it funny that certain people are questioning others patriotism for not supporting the National team first when they don't support our own league. Fair enough if the leagues not for you, I can respect that. But attacking peoples loyalty to their country when they're the ones keeping the backbone of football in the country alive just stinks for me. We wouldn't have a national team if we didn't have a league remember.

It's like accusing somebody of not being Irish if they don't support Celtic.


I'm not having a go at people who don't support LOI, that's your choice and I respect and understand that, but just don't bring patriotism into it.

fullstop

Helix wrote: »

club, i simply dont like the international game

Stephen, is that you?

shane86

Des wrote: »

I do believe it.

It's my feelings on it, I have no connection to the Irish national team.

Due to a complete lack of self promotion a majority of Irish people have no connection to an LOI side. Someone here who lives near Dalymount made a very good point recently that he receives tonnes of mailed adverts from local takeaways, offys, stores etc etc but Bohs cant be arsed trying to ignite interest by posting a few free tickets or match fixtures through the door to entice people to go to a match. I dont know what their attendances are like but Sporting Fingal have made decent efforts to make people in their catchment area aware of their existance. LOI fans cant expect people to take interest in clubs that have near on no tv coverage, no advertising, no jerseys for sale in their local shop etc etc etc. Shams seem to be the only team promoting themselves.

Des wrote: »

However, I can see what you are getting at here, and yes, you are right. The ineptitude of the FAI is part of the reason why I have stopped supporting the Irish team. Of course, back in 1990, when I was 11, I was jumping up and down when Ireland were doing very well, I saw them as "my" team. But by 2002 I had pretty much lost all interest in the team and set-up. In the twelve years in between I started to realise that they weren't "my" team, they were a team for a different person to what I am, or want to be.

How the fook does the ineptitude of the FAI have a bearing on your support for the national team? If Newcastle fans followed this example they would be dead and buried by now.

Gavin shels wrote: »

What about a large about of them "goons" that also save up thousands to travel to support "their" team in Britain?

Who's the better fan, the guy who goes to Tolka every week and around the country and has gone to the arsehole of Eastern Europe to support Shels for 30 years or the guy who has been following Ireland throught thick and thin home and away and also jets off the following day to see his favour foreign team? We can all be picky and choosey Shane!

Utterly clueless point imo. You don't support a LoI team I'm guessing, you don't know the connections many of us fans have, look at Shams fans. As I've stated I have very little connection to the Irish team for many reasons whereas Shels is part of who I am, part of my life!

More holier than them and us. I read the Football Factory the other day (disappointing actually, giving the glowing plaudits from the reviewers on the cover. Its actually pretty plotless and repetitive). Anyway, one common theme from the hooligan telling it is the differentation between what he sees as the fake and real fans. The fake Chelsea fans bring their kids, wear jerseys, have a few pints, enjoy the game. The real fans get rattled drunk and fight the opposition in pubs and train stations before and after the game. Minus the violence it seems to be the same divide here between why supporting LOI makes you a real fan. Club football for me is nothing more than entertainment offered by a side you have a preference for. International football is the green jersey, the flag, the anthem, the tradition, the national pride.

CHD

stovelid wrote: »

Exactly. Not everyone.

And why are you confusing me with one of your friends?

Ah, silly me. Mistook you for one of those good posters.

stovelid

CHD wrote: »

Ah, silly me.

Spot on.

Iago

CHD wrote: »

Ah, silly me. Mistook you for one of those good posters.

stovelid wrote: »

Spot on.

Play nice the pair of you before this escalates to where we have to take action

therecklessone

HalloweenJack wrote: »

Club all the time.

There's a lot more involvement when you support a club. Internationals only come around every months or so but you have a club match every week.

There's also a lot more emotion involved in supporting a club. You can be relegated, promoted, win the league, European trophies, etc.

In international football, the worst you'll ever do is end up in the bottom pot for the seedings.

That sums up a lot of how I feel.

Don't get me wrong, I want Ireland to do well. I'm happy when we win, I'm sad when we lose.

But I prioritise my support of Spurs over Ireland because I have invested so much more in the club. I don't really care if you don't "get" why I'd favour a win for a foreign team over a win for my country, it's not a question of how you feel, it's how I feel that matters to me.

stovelid wrote: »

Horsehit.

The majority of English people that I know feel the same about club vs England.

You can't rationalize it as purely an anti-FAI thing.

+1000

Gavin "shels"

shane86 wrote: »

Club football for me is nothing more than entertainment offered by a side you have a preference for. International football is the green jersey, the flag, the anthem, the tradition, the national pride.

You've hit the nail on the head, that's the main difference between the majority of LoI fans compared to EPL fans over here. An LoI club to an LoI fan usually is part of who they are, they usually play some role within the club, be it selling progammes, match tickets, coupons, buying coupons, working the stiles or in Rovers case running the club. An EPL Irish fan in most cases "is just another customer" to most clubs over there, they don't need you to buy a season ticket as someone else would have, they don't need you to work in a shop, they don't need you to sell progammes or work on the stiles.

I have to disagree about "the tradition, the national pride" of our International side, this Granny Rule crap has tarred some of that "tradition" and "national pride". Go to Croker for an International match, and count the amount of foreign teams (incl. Celtic) jerseys, tracksuits, etc... that's hardly "tradition" and "national pride". There is hardly any "national pride" or "tradition" when it comes to football in this country, if there was it would be back to the 60's and so on when LoI stadiums where sold out week in and week out, when a national league meant something to every football supporter in this country.

You tell me, what's the difference in me supporting Shels and England, and you supporting an EPL team and Ireland?

CHD

Iago wrote: »

Play nice the pair of you before this escalates to where we have to take action

I love him really. Just a bit of harmless fun.

stovelid

Why is this being turned into a LOI and FAI debate?

Even if I loved the FAI; hated the LOI and all Ireland fans were all knowledgeable and loyal sorts, I'd still prioritize whatever club I supported over the national team.

It's this kind of flag-waving that is offensive: the patronizing assumption there always has to be an extraneous, overwhelming, bitter reason for liking your club more than country.

GLaDOS

shane86 wrote: »

More holier than them and us.

International football is the green jersey, the flag, the anthem, the tradition, the national pride.

Exact same attitude, no?

Helix

shane86 wrote: »

International football is the green jersey, the flag, the anthem, the tradition, the national pride.

it most certainly is; and thats 5 things i couldnt care less about, which is probably why i find international football to be dull as dishwater

thebaz

I used to be a massive Irish fan , but gradually since USA '94 my allegiance has waned - watching the likes of Phil Babb and co treated like superstars along with the long list of unfilled talent - Keith O' Neill , Liam Miller , Stokes etc etc -
the National homecomings for winning a match were just too much , along with the Pat Kenny obsession

the rugby team /Munster etc seem much more grounded that the current lot, or McGrath, Moran, Quinn, Roy Keane ,and Stapleton in their pomp .
So club for me

angel01

I am afraid I have lost a lot of interest in the Irish team now and I actually don't enjoy the international breaks now, I much prefer watching club games.

_blank_

stovelid wrote: »

Why is this being turned into a LOI and FAI debate?

It's not the LoI fans doing that.

Lamper.sffc

Gavin shels wrote: »

You've hit the nail on the head, that's the main difference between the majority of LoI fans compared to EPL fans over here. An LoI club to an LoI fan usually is part of who they are, they usually play some role within the club, be it selling progammes, match tickets, coupons, buying coupons, working the stiles or in Rovers case running the club. An EPL Irish fan in most cases "is just another customer" to most clubs over there, they don't need you to buy a season ticket as someone else would have, they don't need you to work in a shop, they don't need you to sell progammes or work on the stiles.

I have to disagree about "the tradition, the national pride" of our International side, this Granny Rule crap has tarred some of that "tradition" and "national pride". Go to Croker for an International match, and count the amount of foreign teams (incl. Celtic) jerseys, tracksuits, etc... that's hardly "tradition" and "national pride". There is hardly any "national pride" or "tradition" when it comes to football in this country, if there was it would be back to the 60's and so on when LoI stadiums where sold out week in and week out, when a national league meant something to every football supporter in this country.

You tell me, what's the difference in me supporting Shels and England, and you supporting an EPL team and Ireland?

Good old Gav, never misses an opportunity.;)

dannydiamond

After reading through this entire thread from its inception,while alot of you have strong and rigid beliefs regarding which teams take preference in your personal pecking order, which is entirely understandable(I'd be very disappointed if this wasn't the case tbh), you all seem to be missing one very simple point.

It's up to each individual fan to decide for him/herself,and absolutely no one has any right what so ever to castigate another football fan for their loyalty or lack thereof to any particular team.

Pro. F

Gavin shels wrote: »

There is hardly any "national pride" or "tradition" when it comes to football in this country, if there was it would be back to the 60's and so on when LoI stadiums where sold out week in and week out, when a national league meant something to every football supporter in this country.

Like it or not there is a tradition of supporting foreign clubs in this country. For me personally I would see very little national pride to be gained from supporting an LOI club in that mess of a league.

stovelid

dannydiamond wrote: »

It's up to each individual fan to decide for him/herself,and absolutely no one has any right what so ever to castigate another football fan for their loyalty or lack thereof to any particular team.

Also to your country.

Sorry if that's what you mean already.

eirebhoy

ScienceNerd wrote: »

I find it funny that certain people are questioning others patriotism for not supporting the National team first when they don't support our own league. Fair enough if the leagues not for you, I can respect that. But attacking peoples loyalty to their country when they're the ones keeping the backbone of football in the country alive just stinks for me. We wouldn't have a national team if we didn't have a league remember.

I do watch the LOI and my patriotism comes out when they're representing us in Europe. We don't choose to love a club or we don't choose to love our country. I don't love any LOI club, or the league, but I really do care when they're playing in Europe because they're representing their country. That's patriotism.

The Ireland cricket team at the world cup. Having never watched a full cricket game in my life I was hooked in the Ireland games. It was called a bandwagon but it was Ireland representing us in front of a couple of billion people. That's what brings the patriotism out of me. I don't watch club rugby but by god I care about the Ireland team.

People don't follow a LOI team for love of their country. The same way they don't support the GAA for love of their country. Patriotism would get every LOI fan behind Bohs vs Salzburg which certainly wasn't the case.

If your a football fan who really loves your country Ireland you'll be an Ireland supporter (bar extreme cases of someone wishing failure on someone for whatever reason). From my experience, those football fans that don't support the national team, just don't really love their country. And I know dozens of them.

pablomakaveli

eirebhoy wrote: »

If your a football fan who really loves your country Ireland you'll be an Ireland supporter (bar extreme cases of someone wishing failure on someone for whatever reason). From my experience, those football fans that don't support the national team, just don't really love their country. And I know dozens of them.

Thats no different to people who say you have to support a united ireland or hate the british to love your country.

Just because people are not interested in the national team does'nt mean they don't like their country.

I don't follow the national team that closely anymore but i do love my country. I blame Stauntons time in charge and the current antics such as the Stephen Ireland affair among other things for my current lack of interest in the Irish team.

Melion

eirebhoy wrote: »

I do watch the LOI and my patriotism comes out when they're representing us in Europe. We don't choose to love a club or we don't choose to love our country. I don't love any LOI club, or the league, but I really do care when they're playing in Europe because they're representing their country. That's patriotism.

The Ireland cricket team at the world cup. Having never watched a full cricket game in my life I was hooked in the Ireland games. It was called a bandwagon but it was Ireland representing us in front of a couple of billion people. That's what brings the patriotism out of me. I don't watch club rugby but by god I care about the Ireland team.

People don't follow a LOI team for love of their country. The same way they don't support the GAA for love of their country. Patriotism would get every LOI fan behind Bohs vs Salzburg which certainly wasn't the case.

If your a football fan who really loves your country Ireland you'll be an Ireland supporter (bar extreme cases of someone wishing failure on someone for whatever reason). From my experience, those football fans that don't support the national team, just don't really love their country. And I know dozens of them.

I cant stand people who behave like that, you had absolutely no interest in the sport before hand(and dare i say it, afterwards) yet just because Ireland are playing you decide to show an interest and pretend to know what was going on. Who cares if Ireland are playing or not?

I'm a football fan, i love Ireland but i cant stand watching Ireland play football simply because its horrible to watch. Why would i bother sitting down for 90 minutes to watch something like that?
For 10 years straight, i went to EVERY Irish game in Dublin. Now i wouldnt even go across the road to Thomond Park to watch them. They are not worth my money anymore. Its the same reason why i prefer watching Rangers to Celtic(shock horror, they play better football)

Warper

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Thats no different to people who say you have to support a united ireland or hate the british to love your country.

Just because people are not interested in the national team does'nt mean they don't like their country.

I don't follow the national team that closely anymore but i do love my country. I blame Stauntons time in charge and the current antics such as the Stephen Ireland affair among other things for my current lack of interest in the Irish team.

That part is definitely true. If you did love your country, you would wish for a United Ireland. It is part of our country or didnt you know that.

stovelid

Warper wrote: »

That part is definitely true. If you did love your country, you would wish for a United Ireland. It is part of our country or didnt you know that.

Nope. Loving your country does not necessarily mean subscribing to a political viewpoint.

Loving your country doesn't necessarily mean prioritizing the national over the regional.

Off-topic (and a sure-fire thread killer) anyway.

_blank_

eirebhoy wrote: »

From my experience, those football fans that don't support the national team, just don't really love their country.

Christ almighty, you start crying when people tar Celtic fans with a "baseball hat, tracksuit wearing scumbag" brush, but it's ok for you to make sweeping generalisations?

Unbelievable.

I love being Irish, but I hate people who push their Irishness in everyone's faces when they are abroad.

By wearing their county colours and dancing on tables roaring rebel songs - nope not for me I'm afraid.

By wearing Scottish club jersies - nope not for me.

By wearing "Kiss me I'm Irish" hats - nope not for me.

By getting pissed and having de craic no matter what the score in the match was - nope not for me.

By blindly supporting a football team out of some misguided patriotism - nope not for me.

"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious."
-- Oscar Wilde

"Our true nationality is mankind."
-- H.G. Wells

And my favourite

"True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else." -
-- Clarence Darrow

Iago

Club v Country from a footballing point of view...

Leave politics outside the thread please

Iago

Personally I've never really felt an attachment to the Irish team, even as far back as Germany '88 & Italy '90 I'd watch the games but would always have been more concerned with how my club team was doing.

Maybe it's because so many of the players only qualified through the grandfather rule or only played because they couldn't get into other teams. Maybe it's because I don't feel any real affinity for the national team in any sport, again I'll watch the games but I'm not overly concerned at the results I don't really know.

I can see why people think be more engaged, but I just can't feel the passion that others do.

stovelid

The poster that said they'd invested more time in a club (tro?) is spot-on.

Internationals have always been like a break from football support for me. I love Ireland to do well. I've been to many games down the years and I have a block-booked seat at the moment.

It's still, however, not too far removed from watching the World Cup generally. It's a laugh even though it's upsetting when Ireland go out or don't qualify.

It doesn't give you the sick feeling of dread or the excitement that club football gives you. Likewise, I don't sell pools for Ireland. I don't pay a membership or force myself to buy a certain amount of merchandise purely to keep Ireland going.

When I support a club, I'm with like-minded people and have a regular, strong attachment to the club. Friendships; connections. I'm not thrown together with all manner of people, some who don't even care that much about football, purely because it's a national beano.

I'm an Ireland fan. I'm a football supporter. Two similar, but different things.

DSB

Similar enough to myself I suppose, I like Ireland, but Shels are the passion. For similar reasons to yours.

liamygunner29

ya lads I started this off to know if Irish people we're losing interest in the Irish side and we're more interested in the fortune of their club..Not to see who was more or less Irish then the next fella.

But one thing that does is annoy me is L.O.I fans thinking there great because they support a team with a thousand people at matches and somehow that makes them unique, I don't feel guilty for supporting Arsenal and nor should anyone tell me different. I happen to think the standard in the LOI is **** and enjoy the premership more I spend hilarious amounts of money following them have done and will do for as long as I'm able I supported them all the way up and I'm not going stop now to follow a a inferior league with no decent coverage and a quarter of the standard.

Yesterday someone mentioned that LOI was great because the club needs you and fans are involved at the stys and selling programmes and that English clubs are big Business and we're consumers. Thats complete horsesh!t. Thats basically saying that if Shamrock Rovers got half a million extra fans they wouldn't take them. LOI clubs are in business as well its just that there not very good at it and thats why they need your help.

Why should we feel guilty for supporting a English team when we feel no affilition with any LOI team? I always support the LOI team in Europe and I'm from Tipp with no club near me so I like to see Cork City winning in Munster but thats the height of it and I've no intention of giving up watching the best standard of football and following the team I love to travel down to Cork to watch sub-standard football with a few hundred other souls.

Its important I add that I'm not saying your not better off supporting Cork City or any LOI club but I don't want to be guiltt-tripped for supporting Arsenal.

On topic I voted club not because I don't love and support Ireland but as stated above I've invested more time,money,emotions and get more enjoyment from my club.

DSB

liamygunner29 wrote: »

But one thing that does is annoy me is L.O.I fans thinking there great because they support a team with a thousand people at matches and somehow that makes them unique.

Do you honestly seriously think thats what it is, or are you just trying to turn it into something else to make our logic look stupid? There are European clubs out there with tens of thousands of fans who are equally unique, Man United, Liverpool, Chelsea etc. just don't happen to be such clubs. Well they do have those unique fans too but they get a bit drowned out.

stovelid

liamygunner29 wrote: »

a inferior league with no decent coverage and a quarter of the standard.

to watch sub-standard football with a few hundred other souls.

The thread is about (any) club versus country?

liamygunner29

stovelid wrote: »

The thread is about (any) club versus country?

ya but I had to comment when reading all the posts about the LOI fans taking the high ground. I don't wish to argue with them as I respect the time and effort they go to support there club and it has to be admired as opposed to taking the easy option like me and so many others but I wasn't to keen on having my loyalty to my country or my choice of club questioned and addressed the issue as such.

Gavin "shels"

Pro. F wrote: »

Like it or not there is a tradition of supporting foreign clubs in this country. For me personally I would see very little national pride to be gained from supporting an LOI club in that mess of a league.

There is a tradition of supporting British teams yes, but that's only been around for the past 20 or 30 years I'd say, until TV's came about imo. Your line of saying that the mess of the league, well if we didn't have that mess of a league, we wouldn't have our infamous international side, so maybe if you supported an LoI team and got a few other thousand buddies to do so, we actually might be able to improve the league.

You see little national pride in supporting your domestic league, so instead choose to support an English team!? What national pride do you get from the international side, a majority bunch of over-rated, English based and some British born players with supporters of "our" team wearing foreign jerseys in their droves to matches,a particular Glasgow based team springs to mind at the fore-front runner.

eirebhoy

Melion wrote: »

I cant stand people who behave like that, you had absolutely no interest in the sport before hand(and dare i say it, afterwards) yet just because Ireland are playing you decide to show an interest and pretend to know what was going on. Who cares if Ireland are playing or not?

Pretend to know whats going on? Not a chance. I never knew the rules beforehand. I didn't talk about it with friends. I just watched it and couldn't help get a faster heart beat in tense situations, etc. Getting emotional for a team is hardly something we choose to do.

I explained previously how the bigger the audience, the more emotion. A billion or so people were watching Ireland play and that brings out the patriotism in me. No matter what the sport, game or event. Jesus it could be chess, or Miss World, and I'd be proud for an Irish winner.

That's not a choice I make. You don't choose to love a team or love your country. You can't switch it on and off. But again, the patriotism came out only for the cricket world cup is because the size of the event. I explained this with the world cup of GAA example in a previous post. Patriotism would only come out the people in the other countries cared.

therecklessone

liamygunner29 wrote: »

ya but I had to comment when reading all the posts about the LOI fans taking the high ground.

TBH, you really didn't, and your dragging the thread you started off-topic with that last post. Of all the people I'd expect to remain on-topic it's the thread starter.

Before anyone else responds or expands on this, there have been countless threads were you've got to beat each other up over perceived slights to your support, or your league, or your team...how about this once we actually debate the issue at hand instead of adjusting the thread to suit a different argument? Thanks

Anto McC

I'd rather see my cousins under 9's team win a friendly than see Ireland win the World cup, such is the comtempt i have for the FAI and a small minority of Ireland fans.

Club for me, i'll consider supporting the "Irish" team when they start representing me again.

Kev_ps3

Anto McC wrote: »

I'd rather see my cousins under 9's team win a friendly than see Ireland win the World cup, such is the comtempt i have for the FAI and a small minority of Ireland fans.

Club for me, i'll consider supporting the "Irish" team when they start representing me again.

Its the same thing saying you hate Ireland because its run by FF. It doesnt make sence to me.

Helix

Gavin shels wrote: »

You see little national pride in supporting your domestic league, so instead choose to support an English team!?

why do you think national pride matters to him? i know many people who think its archaic

how can you be proud of something you didnt accomplish?

OPENROAD

Gavin shels wrote: »

There is a tradition of supporting British teams yes, but that's only been around for the past 20 or 30 years I'd say, until TV's came about imo.

Couldn't agree with you on the above, it goes back much further imo.

eirebhoy

Gavin shels wrote: »

You see little national pride in supporting your domestic league, so instead choose to support an English team!?

He probably made that choice before his teens like many of us. Before you know the team becomes an addiction.

Johnny Utah

Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country.

GlasnevinRed

Club for me.

Used to always follow Ireland but nowadays I've just lost interest. Don't get me wrong if they win, great but it's not gonna upset me if they lose and I won't go out of my way to watch a match either.

Nothing can come close to a Shels win for me.

bohsman

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

Its the same thing saying you hate Ireland because its run by FF. It doesnt make sence to me.

If FF started putting their logo on every flag, passport etc then it would be comparable.

The FAI between their treatment of fans, players at all levels and general incompetency have put me off the national team. I bought the WC 02 jersey, went to several games under Kerr but rarely bother watching the games these days.

ANTIFA!

I still want to see Ireland do well don't get me wrong as some of my favourite players are Shay Given, Stephen Reid, Kevin Doyle and Kevin Kilbane but when you support a club week in week out its hard to favour a team which all play in another country.

In a way the Irish team seems as sort of an exclusive club? Its annoying as a LOI fan seeing players who deserve to be given a chance with their country not even considered. Its truely unique among Irish football imo. No country that I can think of continuily ignore its national League. A culture like Sweden of picking home based players needs to happen in this country imo.

Would I want Bohs to make Champions League over Ireland to get into world cup? Without question.

briany

I'm not really a soccer fan and I dont even watch sports usually but I do like watching the Irish team play even if its boring as hell most of the time and they never look totally comfortable in a lead.