"Operation Armageddon" in 1969 would have been mass suicide for Irish - STAY ON TOPIC

Fratton Fred

darkman2 wrote: »

We are quite capable of invading the entire North today and holding out for a much longer period then in 1969. I don't support such a move because we have no excuse.......yet.

Maybe the Irish DF is capable of holding out in the north, but how will the rest of the country get on with no gas, electricity, petrol, drinking water, bridges etc?

The Irish army would lose everything in a matter of hours, the Curragh, Baldonnel and Howboline would all be wiped out and every Irish navy vessel sunk and despite what you might think about the Irish army's SAMs, they simply aren't enough of them to make the slightest difference.

McArmalite

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Maybe the Irish DF is capable of holding out in the north, but how will the rest of the country get on with no gas, electricity, petrol, drinking water, bridges etc?

The Irish army would lose everything in a matter of hours, the Curragh, Baldonnel and Howboline would all be wiped out and every Irish navy vessel sunk and despite what you might think about the Irish army's SAMs, they simply aren't enough of them to make the slightest difference.

Wouldn't happen ( as much as some of you brits would LOVE to be throwing your weight about ) One frown from Washington and that would be as far as britian goes. Remember Suez, the Cod War* with Iceland and Grenada** when mighty britiannia was stopped in it's tracks by Uncle Sam



* For those of you too young http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_Wars

**http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Grenada

Saadyst

McArmalite wrote: »

Wouldn't happen ( as much as some of you brits would LOVE to be throwing your weight about ) One frown from Washington and that would be as far as britian goes. Remember Suez, the Cod War* with Iceland and Grenada** when mighty britiannia was stopped in it's tracks by Uncle Sam



* For those of you too young http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_Wars

**http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Grenada

Why would Washington frown? If the Republic attempts an invasion of the UK, the UK has every right to defend itself, and I guess to an extent to that which such an invasion won't happen again. Which means destroying the Irish military and it's support structures?

No-one would like it. But I'd be surprised if the USA did anything more than call for calm.

Capt'n Midnight

Hagar wrote: »

Just to put it into perspective the Brits lost 58,000 men on the first day of the battle of the Somme. The whole of the Irish Defence forces would have been wiped out before the morning tea-break.

On Coast a while back they said that there were 8,000 troops stationed in the Faroes during WWII

Back in 69 the UK was our main trade partner so would have been an issue
an economic blockade would have been easy to impliment too

Manic Moran

Donny5 wrote: »

They've got Bofors 40mm Cannon and the RBS-70 SAMs, not to mention the Bren in AA mode.

The question still stands, then. What does the DF have that will stop a Tornado from dropping a bomb at 20,000 feet?

NTM

jill_valentine

Manic Moran wrote: »

The question still stands, then. What does the DF have that will stop a Tornado from dropping a bomb at 20,000 feet?

NTM

Fool! If the butterfly nets don't catch them, the poolskimmers will!

senordingdong

Will someone tape the docu for me.

Kalashnikov_Kid

senordingdong wrote: »

Will someone tape the docu for me.

and stick in up on youtube, as soon as they can. Ta

Capt'n Midnight

Manic Moran wrote: »

The question still stands, then. What does the DF have that will stop a Tornado from dropping a bomb at 20,000 feet?

NTM

Even if they had ,the Lightnings and Canberras could have gone a LOT higher than 20,000ft

Fratton Fred

McArmalite wrote: »

Wouldn't happen ( as much as some of you brits would LOVE to be throwing your weight about ) One frown from Washington and that would be as far as britian goes. Remember Suez, the Cod War* with Iceland and Grenada** when mighty britiannia was stopped in it's tracks by Uncle Sam



* For those of you too young http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_Wars

**http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Grenada

how is your parallel universe these days?

If Ireland invaded a part of the UK then the UK defence forces would be prefectly entitled to remove Ireland's ability to make war. In terms of Irish soldiers, all that would be left would be your heroic mates on their bar stools.

Stev_o

Wonder though if the orders would of been executed by low level commanders who must of seen such a action as national suicide. Would be interesting to see if the British had any plans to counter such a move if the Republic evoked it and whether it would mean the full invasion and occupation of Ireland.

ejmaztec

Stev_o wrote: »

Wonder though if the orders would of been executed by low level commanders who must of seen such a action as national suicide. Would be interesting to see if the British had any plans to counter such a move if the Republic evoked it and whether it would mean the full invasion and occupation of Ireland.

I wonder how many of them, and their men, would have stayed put?

McArmalite

Fratton Fred wrote: »

how is your parallel universe these days?

If Ireland invaded a part of the UK then the UK defence forces would be prefectly entitled to remove Ireland's ability to make war. In terms of Irish soldiers, all that would be left would be your heroic mates on their bar stools.

If the Irish army had gone it, it would have had the full backing of the International community, the USA especially, it would have been seen as coming to the rescue of the Catholics and not an ' invasion '. And not just Irish America, the plight of the Civil Rights marches etc obviously had huge resonations with the American public. Something like the Suez crisis in 1956 of which britain learned a very, very hard lesson.

If britain is such a world power who can throw it's weight about like you imagine, how come they didn't bomb Iceland in the 1970's for cutting your fishing nets, ramming your trawlers and firing missiles at your navy. As well as burning down the british embassy in Reykjavík - technically british soil ?

And of course no attacking Libya for Lockerbie ?

Donny5

Manic Moran wrote: »

The question still stands, then. What does the DF have that will stop a Tornado from dropping a bomb at 20,000 feet?

NTM

Nothing. Nothing at all. However, a Bren in AA mode is still a better deterrent than a PC-9.

McArmalite wrote: »

If the Irish army had gone it, it would have had the full backing of the International community, the USA especially, it would have been seen as coming to the rescue of the Catholics and not an ' invasion '. And not just Irish America, the plight of the Civil Rights marches etc obviously had huge resonations with the American public. Something like the Suez crisis in 1956 of which britain learned a very, very hard lesson.

If britain is such a world power who can throw it's weight about like you imagine, how come they didn't bomb Iceland in the 1970's for cutting your fishing nets, ramming your trawlers and firing missiles at your navy. As well as burning down the british embassy in Reykjavík - technically british soil ?

And of course no attacking Libya for Lockerbie ?

Attacking Libya in retaliation for Lockerbie would be analogous to attacking Eire for the IRA's terrorism up North.

Fratton Fred

McArmalite wrote: »

If the Irish army had gone it, it would have had the full backing of the International community, the USA especially, it would have been seen as coming to the rescue of the Catholics and not an ' invasion '. And not just Irish America, the plight of the Civil Rights marches etc obviously had huge resonations with the American public. Something like the Suez crisis in 1956 of which britain learned a very, very hard lesson.

If britain is such a world power who can throw it's weight about like you imagine, how come they didn't bomb Iceland in the 1970's for cutting your fishing nets, ramming your trawlers and firing missiles at your navy. As well as burning down the british embassy in Reykjavík - technically british soil ?

And of course no attacking Libya for Lockerbie ?

Out of curiosity, have you ever considered getting yourself a life?

Hagar

Fred quit the trolling, seriously.

McArmalite

McArmalite wrote: »

And of course no attacking Libya for Lockerbie ?

That was Libya's response to the Yanks bombing Libya as it was the PanAm bomb went of later than planned, it should have been blown up mid Atlantic!

Adamisconfused

As said by several posters, many Irish people would have stood up to defend their country, but that would have only happened if the whole island had been invaded. It would have just involved locals protecting their own areas. The British weren’t stupid enough to head into the 26. They are quite happy to simply control Ireland by proxy as they have done since 1922. Well, at least the FG governments.

The only hope would have come from America. The British government are almost as servile to them as the Irish government are to the Westminster. The best thing that could have happened would have been if the southern army at the time had simply supplied the Irish Republican Army with the means to fight. Any chance for a victorious guerrilla war went out the window by the mid-seventies. If the IRA had ample supply of weapons and training before that time, then things may have been different.
At least, this programme shows how times have changed. Back then, we had men preparing to cross the border to fight. Now, we have a government basically calling anyone who shops north of that same border, traitors.

Fratton Fred

Hagar wrote: »

Fred quit the trolling, seriously.

Apologies, I didn't realise the truth was trolling.

I didn't realise the cod wars, suez or granada were relevant either. to me they look like they have been brought up to provoke a reaction.

robby^5

Adamisconfused wrote: »

As said by several posters, many Irish people would have stood up to defend their country

I'd bet on the well equipped, well trained and experienced British soldiers over a poorly equipped mob any day.

Hagar

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Out of curiosity, have you ever considered getting yourself a life?

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Apologies, I didn't realise the truth was trolling.

I didn't realise the cod wars, suez or granada were relevant either. to me they look like they have been brought up to provoke a reaction.

Don't push it Fred, "getting a life" makes no mention of any of those topics. Go to PM or Help Desk if you can't take mod direction as per charter.

Donny5

Deleted User wrote: »

That was Libya's response to the Yanks bombing Libya as it was the PanAm bomb went of later than planned, it should have been blown up mid Atlantic!

It blew up early, as the plane was bound for New York.

Adamisconfused

robby^5 wrote: »

I'd bet on the well equipped, well trained and experienced British soldiers over a poorly equipped mob any day.

What happened between 1919 and 1922? What happened in the north throughout the last conflict? Untrained, poorly armed men and women stood up to face down vastly superiour forces. I never said that it would be pretty.

Donny5

Adamisconfused wrote: »

What happened between 1919 and 1922? What happened in the north throughout the last conflict? Untrained, poorly armed men and women stood up to face down vastly superiour forces. I never said that it would be pretty.

It ended in a truce, which was preferred by the British as it was an unpopular, expensive war and by Mick Collins because he thought the IRA was severly depleted.

Kalashnikov_Kid

robby^5 wrote: »

I'd bet on the well equipped, well trained and experienced British soldiers over a poorly equipped mob any day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Magersfontein

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Colenso

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stormberg

It is widely regarded that this particular poorly equipped mob outwitted and outkilled the British Army by use of guerilla warfare, exceptional strike accuracy and superior knowledge of local terrain.

Factors which have led to significant British losses since, and no doubt will continue to do so in the future.

Donny5

Kalashnikov_Kid wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Magersfontein

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Colenso

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stormberg

It is widely regarded that this particular poorly equipped mob outwitted and outkilled the British Army by use of guerilla warfare, exceptional strike accuracy and superior knowledge of local terrain.

Factors which have led to significant British losses since, and no doubt will continue to do so in the future.

The Boer did eventually surrender.

Adamisconfused

Donny5 wrote: »

It ended in a truce, which was preferred by the British as it was an unpopular, expensive war and by Mick Collins because he thought the IRA was severly depleted.

And.....
Even if it ended in abject failure, it doesn't take away from the fact that people are willing to volunteer. I was only pointing out that some people would stand up regardless of the odds. Previous posts doubted that many people would do. I disagree.

Fratton Fred

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Apologies, I didn't realise the truth was trolling.

I didn't realise the cod wars, suez or granada were relevant either. to me they look like they have been brought up to provoke a reaction.

That's exactly they were brought up! to detract from the main issue!
There are a couple of very successful Agent provocateur's on this forum.

Donny5

Donny5 wrote: »

It blew up early, as the plane was bound for New York.

oops! I forgot which way it was going /facepalm

Fratton Fred

Unfortunately though, times have changed significantly since the Boer war.