The Official Bernard Dunne v Poonsawat Kratingdaengym thread

mark renton

Other - no contest, draw, technical draw etc

walshb wrote: »

Well, I am calling for him to give in because the guy cannot afford to be taking beatings like the other night. Nothing to do with rating. Jeez, he was top ten rated for a nano second, ONE fight did it. This has zero to do with the fact that he is not top ten, it's to do with Bernard's health and wealth and lack
of resistance and poor chin and the fact that he will ship more unnecessary punishment just to keep
the blod thirsty mob happy.

Do you think Carruth is calling for retirement because Dunne is now outside top ten? No, Carruth knows that Dunne will only end up getting hurt again, the second he meets a guy with strength and ANY sort of punch.

I heard Michael Carruth on the radio on Sunday say "he should go on because it is an awful way to end a great career, and if he didnt I would shake his hand"

personally I believe the towel should have come in after the second knockdown and also PK didnt go to kill him once he knew he was going, I actually believe PK held back, done just enough to put him down - fair play to him

He has had 7 knockdowns in his last 5 fights - but this is not heavyweight, he actually recovered very quickly

walshb

john47832 wrote: »

I heard Michael Carruth on the radio on Sunday say "he should go on because it is an awful way to end a great career, and if he didnt I would shake his hand"

personally I believe the towel should have come in after the second knockdown and also PK didnt go to kill him once he knew he was going, I actually believe PK held back, done just enough to put him down - fair play to him

He has had 7 knockdowns in his last 5 fights - but this is not heavyweight, he actually recovered very quickly

john, at least we agree on the towel issue. I think after KD 2 Dunne should have been saved. I saw that compassion too with PK

As to Carruth, he is dilly dallying then. He is quoted as saying he thinks Dunne should quit

T-K-O

Other - no contest, draw, technical draw etc

CelticSpirit wrote: »

Belts are hard to come by. Perhaps Bernard reckoned it was worth fighting the Thai for despite his reputation.

I agree, fair play to him for wanting the fight - just an interesting angle on the situation.

walshb

BDF wrote: »

Exactly right TKO. This is a point people don't seem to get. They just see Dunne getting KO'd and instantly mark him down as useless or damaged goods or whatever.

Since when does mediocre now become useless?

And, what if sOmeone studied his career and saw ONE win in his entire career
over a rated fighter and the rest of his wins against, let's be honest, less than worthy foes, and two brutal KO losses, one against an average Spaniard, and the other against PK?

This must also be considered when coming to ones judgment. In my judgment, it falls short of great by a good bit

BDF

Dunne points win

T-K-O wrote: »

I gave the exmaple of Ponce De Leon earlier but it was wasted on these - bandwagoners.

Yeah Ponce De Leon is a great comparison. The more I think of Saturday night, the more Dunne has actually impressed me as strange as that sounds. That first left hook that put him down would have been lights out for most of the guys at 122, I don't care what anyone says to the contrary, but Dunne got up and actually managed to get his jab going again, albeit for a very short time. That to me is pretty remarkable.

T-K-O

Other - no contest, draw, technical draw etc

walshb wrote: »

Since when does mediocre now become useless?

And, what if sOmeone studied his career and saw ONE win in his entire career
over a rated fighter and the rest of his wins against, let's be honest, less than worthy foes, and two brutal KO losses, one against an average Spaniard, and the other against PK?

This must also be considered when coming to ones judgment. In my judgment, it falls short of great by a good bit

Since when is top ten mediocre ?

BDF

Dunne points win

walshb wrote: »

Since when does mediocre now become useless?

And, what if sOmeone studied his career and saw ONE win in his entire career
over a rated fighter and the rest of his wins against, let's be honest, less than worthy foes, and two brutal KO losses, one against an average Spaniard, and the other against PK?

This must also be considered when coming to ones judgment. In my judgment, it falls short of great by a good bit

Medioce, useless, sh*te, these are just a few of the ways Dunne has been described by idiots who obviously know nothing about the sport, but you have no problem with this. You only jump in when someone dares to say Dunne is/was world class or near it. It seems strange to me that's all.

mark renton

Other - no contest, draw, technical draw etc

T-K-O wrote: »

If was only after the war between those guys that the fight was put back. Peters also suggested that he wanted Dunne to vacate and fight Vazquez instead.... Thoughts ?

I would believe it - Brian Peters has done a good job in guiding Bernard, the right fights, built the confidence and promised a world title shot which he got at the right time against an opponent that he could beat - thats his job, now when Bernard has the belt and Peters asks him to avoid another boxer and hand the title over, what does he say? fcuk that

ask Bernard in a couple of months from now if he wishes he handed his belt over and avoided PK - what will he say? he trained and fought from 5 years old to fight for that title and when he wins it he is asked to hand it back without a fight?

T-K-O

Other - no contest, draw, technical draw etc

john47832 wrote: »

I would believe it - Brian Peters has done a good job in guiding Bernard, the right fights, built the confidence and promised a world title shot which he got at the right time against an opponent that he could beat - thats his job, now when Bernard has the belt and Peters asks him to avoid another boxer and hand the title over, what does he say? fcuk that

ask Bernard in a couple of months from now if he wishes he handed his belt over and avoided PK - what will he say? he trained and fought from 5 years old to fight for that title and when he wins it he is asked to hand it back without a fight?

He will stand by his decision, i have no doubt.

CelticSpirit

T-K-O wrote: »

I agree, fair play to him for wanting the fight - just an interesting angle on the situation.

Personally I think that in his heart Dunne didn't want to walk away from the challenge. He wanted to be the best.

Crotchety

Poonsawat points win

CelticSpirit wrote: »

Personally I think that in his heart Dunne didn't want to walk away from the challenge. He wanted to be the best.

That's true but it looked like he didn't know where to draw the line. I suppose you could say he was too big for his boots. He wasn't able for those power punches at all at all.

Maybe on another night but on Saturday he just wasn't there.

alanceltic

Dunne points win

I will say it again, I really think thats its far too early to be deciding if dunne should go on or retire, the dust needs to settle big time and theres only really one opinion that matters. Either way I feel that people should respect the decision one way or another. Now im going to be a complete hypocrite and give my opinions lol, I personally think that Dunne should go on IF he has the desire to get back in the saddle and IF the hunger is still there and he will only find this out once he has had a good solid break away from the limelight of the game. I must say that on the night I had mixed views but I think that was the emotion of the night itself and its still quite raw.

I think that some people are being a little bit rash in their opinions on the matter, there is no disgrace to losing a world title bout to an operator like PK and quite a lot of people are of the opinion that this little man will go on to dominate the division. Just because he didnt win this fight does not mean that he can not have a future in the game at the top table. Let me pull a name like Steve Molitor out of the hat, he is the same age as bernard, has had a very similar distinguished amateur career like bernards, Physically very similar, and technically very sound, a boxer who is pretty much cut from the same cloth as Dunne, shares very simlar strenghts and weaknesses, the similaraties IMO are very close. Molitor was beaten by Caballero who at the time (and probably is to some degree) was deemed to be the top dog, Molitor came back after a 7 month lay off and in 1 fight worked his way back by winning an IBF eliminator, his next fight could well be for his old title back. This guy sh_it himself against Cab and showed next to no courage in the manner of his defeat yet he has come back into the reckoning, what is so different to Dunne that he can not follow the same path?

I think most people would accept that there are 2 fighters in this division (Cab & JML) who are freakishly powerful (although i believe Cab is strong but flawed) and I think PK has the ability to beat both of them, below this there is a handful of boxers at world level who Dunne can compete with and more importantly beat - Molitor/Nishioka/Munroe(untested really!), factor in the talk that Cab & JML are moving up and this blows the division right open. Given the right matchmaking Dunne has the tools to come again, the question is if he has the desire to come again and this is the real kernel. The one thing that I really feel an injustice about is that he never got the 1 big payday he deserved, nobody to blame here just circumstances and timeings really and I dont think anyone would begrudge him a jackpot payday to call it a day on. He has certainly entertained, never a dull moment as some would say but he needs a good 3-4 months away from the game completely to see if he still has the fire in his belly.

The_Kew_Tour

Poonsawat points win

Dunne is good fighter imo but he just aint great one

he has no chin and in this game that aint gonna help ya much

hope he comes back but cant see it myself

T-K-O

Other - no contest, draw, technical draw etc

Dunne will be back - book mark this post.

Crotchety

Poonsawat points win

Dunne should really sit down and think about what he has left in his career. I can't see much in it to be honest. He'll have to decide himself. He'll probably come out with the tough fighting attitude but is this right? He's doing himself more damage than good.

Crotchety

Poonsawat points win

adrian280582 wrote: »

Dunne is good fighter imo but he just aint great one

he has no chin and in this game that aint gonna help ya much

hope he comes back but cant see it myself

I was saying he doesn't have a chin. It would be a great help if he did. One power turbo blow to the chin and he's gone like he was at the weekend.

alanceltic

Dunne points win

BDF wrote: »

That first left hook that put him down would have been lights out for most of the guys at 122, I don't care what anyone says to the contrary

I certainly think so too but walshb doesnt seem to agree for some reason. differing opinions i suppose, agree to differ, I just know that I wouldnt liketo have tasted it! Time will tell exactly how strong a puncher he is if/when either JML or CAB decide to take the thai on because Saturday night has opened more questions than it has answered

T100

First and foremost I am Irish and proud of it. The rest is of my experience over the past 8 days. This Thread is full of slagging, bad-mouthing and experts but allow me to share my experience.

Poonsawat arrived at the airport, Sunday before the fight, was made queue for about an hour and a half in the non EU line, difficulties encountered by the numerous changes of names, not expecting to be greeted by a soul. He emerged through the doors of the arrivals area and was literally stunned by the reception given to him by the Thai-Irish community. There was no great posse, just 5 people here for a result. About 150 people gathered and waited for him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhHfazMCTyI&feature=related

He has been waiting to fight this fight for almost 2 years. From landing to the fight itself, he was in the companionship of his fellow countrymen, he felt at home. He trained for this event. He knew the title was his. Previous champions avoided him. He was prepared. He came with only one end in mind.

All dues and respect afforded to Bernard, but for as good as he is, this young man was better prepared, hungry and better trained. As in an earlier post I mentioned he is an Isaan farm boy, was identified early as a skilled fighter. He has dreamt this dream for at least a decade.

As is Thai nature, he is respectful. This was clearly demonstrated on Saturday. 4 examples come to mind:

1. Respect for the ring and what was to come- his prayer prior to entering the ring.
2. Maintaining composure in spite of deplorable reception from elements of the attendance.
3. Acknowledgement of Bernard and his wife after the result.
4. Respect and appreciation for his trainer after the victory. Have you ever seen a World Champion genuflect and kiss the feet of his trainer before ?

I had the pleasure of being in his and his team's company on Sunday before they left for home. He is the most humble person I have met in my life. He spent hours taking photos with all who were there. He ate with us, joked and longed to return to Thailand to see his wife and child.
I have photos and memories that will last me a lifetime. He held my children and took photos with many others. The Tolka junior team was there too and he loved that almost as much as they did. Poonsawat is a true champion.

I am proud of Bernard's accomplishments, his courage in taking on one whom others avoided. Poonsawat is the Champion of the World. He worked for it, he fought for it and I am confident and hopeful that he will keep it.

alanceltic

Dunne points win

I agree with everything you say but dont really see where you are going with your post.

Dunne too came from an area with its own challenges and he too dreamt a dream (and fulfilled it as brief and all as it was). He has kissed the babies and the grannies! and has never had anything but respect for his opponents in both victory and defeat both before a contest and afterwards (cordoba hospital visit comes to mind straight away). He has never once dished a fellow pro. He has always apportioned a hugh part of his success to his team and always in an interview refers to his success as "our success" and on winning a world title declared that he won it for the fans and not himself. I just cant see him bowing as graciously in front of his manager lol.

PK got a very fair reception and fair played to him, he does indeed seem like a good lad but dont forget that Dunne too is just as humble and is the one who put irish boxing back on the front pages for the last number of years.

pokerface_me

Was at the fight Saturday and was very sad to see all the booing brigade its not welcome in Boxing.

As for Dunne the Guy has nothing left to prove, he went out and got his world title which was his dream. Bernard if you were to continue i would fear for your health man, the punches you took were by no stretch of the imagination knock-out punches and they hurt you and hurt you alot, the chin is just not up to it.

You are as brave as they come man with the heart of a lion, and you have done the Irish people very proud over the years and owe us nothing and have nothing left to prove.

You have a lovely young family and stunning wife, Get out while you have your health man, money is not everything and you will always put bread and butter on the table through media work and coaching future champions.

Best wishes with whatever you choose to do and you are a true Gentleman of the sport we love.

Zak Flaps

3 great posts in a row there....nice one lads...

Zak Flaps

bernard has always been respectful of his opponents i'm glad to say,but i enjoyed the insight to Poonsawat that T100 gave us in his post...i was hugely impressed by the way this guy carried himself(inside and outside the ring)...he showed the the utmost respect to everyone he came across...i'm pretty sure the majority of people at the fight did not boo him during his entrance,and i'm positive most people applauded him when he left the ring with the title...i wish him well and sincerely hope he goes from strength to strength...
and i also hope that bernard dunne thinks very carefully about his next move...

starbelgrade

eagle eye wrote: »

Keyboard warriors are a waste of space and thats what you are. If you wish to say something like that, lets have your name and address.

The beauty of the internet is that I can express my opinion on the likes of this fight, without some buffoon threatening to come around to my house & kick my head in.

Builderfromhell

T100 wrote: »

First and foremost I am Irish and proud of it. The rest is of my experience over the past 8 days. This Thread is full of slagging, bad-mouthing and experts but allow me to share my experience.

Poonsawat arrived at the airport, Sunday before the fight, was made queue for about an hour and a half in the non EU line, difficulties encountered by the numerous changes of names, not expecting to be greeted by a soul. He emerged through the doors of the arrivals area and was literally stunned by the reception given to him by the Thai-Irish community. There was no great posse, just 5 people here for a result. About 150 people gathered and waited for him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhHfazMCTyI&feature=related

He has been waiting to fight this fight for almost 2 years. From landing to the fight itself, he was in the companionship of his fellow countrymen, he felt at home. He trained for this event. He knew the title was his. Previous champions avoided him. He was prepared. He came with only one end in mind.

All dues and respect afforded to Bernard, but for as good as he is, this young man was better prepared, hungry and better trained. As in an earlier post I mentioned he is an Isaan farm boy, was identified early as a skilled fighter. He has dreamt this dream for at least a decade.

As is Thai nature, he is respectful. This was clearly demonstrated on Saturday. 4 examples come to mind:

1. Respect for the ring and what was to come- his prayer prior to entering the ring.
2. Maintaining composure in spite of deplorable reception from elements of the attendance.
3. Acknowledgement of Bernard and his wife after the result.
4. Respect and appreciation for his trainer after the victory. Have you ever seen a World Champion genuflect and kiss the feet of his trainer before ?

I had the pleasure of being in his and his team's company on Sunday before they left for home. He is the most humble person I have met in my life. He spent hours taking photos with all who were there. He ate with us, joked and longed to return to Thailand to see his wife and child.
I have photos and memories that will last me a lifetime. He held my children and took photos with many others. The Tolka junior team was there too and he loved that almost as much as they did. Poonsawat is a true champion.

I am proud of Bernard's accomplishments, his courage in taking on one whom others avoided. Poonsawat is the Champion of the World. He worked for it, he fought for it and I am confident and hopeful that he will keep it.

Good post.
Many Thais from Limerick went to Dublin to meet Poonsawat at the Airport. This was quiet an underatking for them as they work long hours and are not well paid.

walshb

alan, as I said earlier, the shot was clean and flush, it was Dunne's reaction that made it seem harder than it was. akindoc said it perfectly when he said how it was like Dunne had been shot in the back of the head.

You mentioned how he wasn't disgraced. I agree, and it is something I said from the start.
I also think Bernard boxed well in the two rds and an argument could be made that
he won both. However, towards the end of the second, I knew it was about two to three rds before he would get Ko'd. It was a hell of a task to expect Dunne to maintain that pace
on the backfoot.

Looking at the first two knockdowns, it was clear to me that Dunne was really really hurt and was on survival mode. All credit to him for valiantly fighting back, but it was survival and instinct. His number was up, and PK knew it after the end of rd 2.

walshb

BDF wrote: »

Medioce, useless, sh*te, these are just a few of the ways Dunne has been described by idiots who obviously know nothing about the sport, but you have no problem with this. You only jump in when someone dares to say Dunne is/was world class or near it. It seems strange to me that's all.

Well, to me useless is not Dunne. He is not useless. Mediocre may also be too low, but I have maintained from day 1 that he is not what I would call a top pro. Bernard has skills and talent and can mix it boxing wise with good fighters, but at the upper end, he will always be found wanting.

It's not just him by the way. There are many pros out there who are being rated highly that IMO are well below the world standard.

mushykeogh

T100 wrote: »

As is Thai nature, he is respectful. This was clearly demonstrated on saturday. 4 examples come to mind:

1. Respect for the ring and what was to come- his prayer prior to entering the ring.
2. Maintaining composure in spite of deplorable reception from elements of the attendance.
3. Acknowledgement of Bernard and his wife after the result.
4. Respect and appreciation for his trainer after the victory. Have you ever seen a World Champion genuflect and kiss the feet of his trainer before ?

Thats the thai culture, an incredibly poor country with a huge spirtual emphasis. The prayers before entering the ring is the norm in muaythai where the fighter pays respect to his parents, teachers coaches etc. Most of the top thai fighters come from a background and life we couldnt comprehend.
This guy has come from poverty to a position to be able to look after his family, wife, kid, parents and beyond.

In a way its great to see that such humility and respect still exists in the world.

eagle eye

Poonsawat points win

starbelgrade wrote: »

.

Plus, next time he metions Hunky F*cking Dorys, I'll deck the pint sized waste of space.

Move on Dunne, your time is up.

starbelgrade wrote: »

The beauty of the internet is that I can express my opinion on the likes of this fight, without some buffoon threatening to come around to my house & kick my head in.

Who threatened you?

You were the one doing the threatening. As I said keyboard warriors are a waste of space and if you wish to make a statement like that, you should be brave enough to put up your name and address.

walshb

This thread has run its course, seeing as we are now bordering on
threats and abuse, we'll leave it here.