Stuck in Specific Roles

dubhdara3

Hey all

I'm in a smallish Guild, there are only about 30 of us, who formed when a bigger guild we were in disbanded. About 20-25 of us are level 80's and fairly well geared. We formed based on a casual raid guild, and to have a bit of fun, which has worked well until recently.

Recently disagreements have started to appear, when more than one healer joins a Heroic group, people have started to complain that only one healer should be in a group(we currently have 2 Paladins,1 priest, 1 Druid, and 2 Shamans who can heal; but all are dual specced), which as a dual specced Tankadin/Healadin I find to be completely unfair, since if I am tanking obviously we are going to need a healer in the party. Likewise if one of the other Healers want to DPS for a change, then we are going to need a healer as well.

As I say it's really starting to annoy me, since this mind-frame means that I won't be 'allowed' to do anything other than heal. As I see it the only options are that I respec my healing to DPS, to hope the whole thing blows over, or to leave the guild and try to find another one. Respecing isn't really an option since DPS Pallys aren't in huge demand.
For the moment, I'm planning not to log on as my Paladin, and just level a new character instead.

So I wondering, is this problem still relevant across all servers, and if I leave the guild which I am very tempted to do, should I expect the same problem in other guilds i.e. I'm only 'allowed' to heal

Kiith

Don't let anyone tell you what spec to play. If they are forcing you into a healing role everytime you go to an instance, tell them to **** off and leave the guild. With pretty much everyone having Dual Specs these days, there is no reason why you shouldnt be able to switch roles if you have someone else who can heal.

I hate that "You have to spec this way, and play that way" attitude. It's your character, you play it how you like.

ps. i'm not in a raiding guild, nor will i ever be, so i'm sure other people will have a different opinion then me. Above is just mine.

nix

What Kiith said, i spent the whole of TBC raid healing on my priest against my preference. I wanted to be shadow, our server was low pop and good healers were hard to find.

So hard infact, that one day i said "Ah screw it" im going shadow **** the lot of ya, i was shadow for about 2 weeks. The guild i was in and loved nearly fell apart from lack of healers, so i went back and healed for a few more months and then i stopped raiding.

So the longer you bow down and heal the harder it is going to be for you to go with the role you want, so i advise to specc what you like and stick with it no matter what..

At the end of the day its you paying the sub fee for a game you want to play, so play it the way you like

BadCharlie

Just play the toon and spec you enjoy. Your playing the game for fun after all if that means you want to DPS well do so. Im been DPS so long i want to lvl a healer now as i think i would enjoy it.

][cEMAN**

It seems a lot harder on less populated servers, with less top level guilds (hardcore or not).

Paladins and druids i'd say are the worst in this situation, because they can play the 3 roles, and don't always get in as the one they want.

Eg. Tanks - if the guild didn't already have tanks, they'd have been stuck already, so you know going in, they already have a MT, and either 1 or 2 backup tanks. It means that either you have to spend ages proving that you can actually do what you do, or find that they never fully accept you in the top spot because they're so used to the others.

DPS - Well as you say, ret paladins aren't always the first choice when going into a raid. Around 3.0 when they buffed their damage they also began making widespread their raid benefits - mana regen, and debuffs etc. It means classes that in vanilla would hardly have ever seen a raid (hunters), and who'd only just come into it a bit more in TBC, got a spot in raids. Ret paladins can easily be left out now though because of it, and as our dps is solely dependant on our weapon (which every other melee class AND hunters can roll on, making it harder to get), doing top damage is difficult or unlikely.

As holy, we got a pretty bad nerf in the last patch with mana regen, meaning the focus on our stats shifted a bit. I've not really healed much since the last patch, and i'm not really that interested tbh. Having played other healer classes before and enjoyed them, I don't find paladins as much fun. Their best possible use is also limited. Big heals, with a max 2 targets (the Hot isn't really that great, and is only on the person you have SS on), or random healing with the glyph, is more tank healing. Now priests can do just as good, or better, and in reality HoTs are more mana efficient and help to stop spiking - You may hit a 20k crit heal, but if the tank's on nearly full health because of spiking and a second healer, it's useless, then between that and the next one cast, he could be hit twice and wiped out (if he's not fully avoidance+block capped, or mechanics fights like iron council if not debuffed on steelbreaker). Any fight where people are feared for a couple of seconds as well, without HoT's, there's a chance something could happen - even if you're waiting for a tremor totem to kick in.

So what are your choices? Limited. If you want to move into a certain role in raiding, you first have to put your foot down with your current guild. If they don't like it, you'll continue to be unhappy there, so why keep playing there? Take your chances applying to a couple of other guilds - research who needs certain roles you want to fill, or apply to someone who doesn't necessarily need a tank/dps (if that's what you want), and hope for the best.
Alternatively, start a new guild where you know you'll have a solid position. Begin as a 10 man, then gain confidence and move up to a 25 man. It's not the best solution though, because it's a lot harder than it sounds, and you may leave yourself in the position of either not managing to get enough people for a raid, or just end up with people who are close to useless.

If you don't do any of these though, you'll just stay where you are - being asked to heal when you don't want to.

Dual spec has meant guilds expect more of you, but even before it, they would have given you the whole "We may need you to <insert role> as well, but of course the guild will pay for your respecs...". I'd spent nearly 5000g on respecs between WotLK coming out and dual spec in 3.1 - for guild runs, and for even just getting into heroics. Even now with dual spec, i'm still having to pay for respecs from time to time if I switch guilds, until they get comfortable with me in tank/dps position.

TheDoc

I defnitely agree that you should play what you enjoy.

Me personally however, I in the past played roles I didn't really ant or enjoy, but it opened me up to a niche. I was a pretty decent healing priest on a low pop server, and was constantly being pulled into raiding in the TBC era.

I like said above, went shadow for a long time and just was not called for any raids, even though my dps was pretty decent compared to the other spellcasters.

I then went back healing, and was back into raiding.

I wouldnt mind speccing something thats required. At the moment I've a paladin,druid and mage on the way to 80, and when they do, I'll have options for pvp,dps,tanking and healing, and I'd be more then willing to play any role once it gets me into heroics and raiding. Cause I'm not getting any luck finding a nice raiding guild, albeit it hardcore or casual.

Claypigeon

You should definitely play what you enjoy (it's a game) but at the same time it's an absolute joke that you get people rolling classes that *can* tank or *can heal* and yet LFG as dps and let their dualspec gather dust.

9/10 times, people don't tank or heal because they don't have the confidence to and don't find it fun. I'd say just learn to play every potential spec of any char you play and get the most out of it rather than hating it because you've not practiced it before.

dubhdara3

As I said, I'm a healer/tank, and I do heal enjoying healing, I find it more relaxing compared to tanking. I just don't want to be stuck that that is the only thing I can do.
Compared to other's in the guild I'm not as bad, since I have just tanked Naxx10 for the guild for the first time (something our 2 warrior tanks haven't yet accomplished), so I have a case for arguing. I'm just more annoyed when people start to complain... oh that heroic group can't go, cos they have 2 healers in it, when it obvious that one of those healers is the tank, or is the highest dps in the group.

I think I might try to get everyone online together tonight, and get the whole thing out into the open and try to sort it out, instead of people getting resentful and leaving the guild one by one.

TheDoc

Claypigeon wrote: »

You should definitely play what you enjoy (it's a game) but at the same time it's an absolute joke that you get people rolling classes that *can* tank or *can heal* and yet LFG as dps and let their dualspec gather dust.

9/10 times, people don't tank or heal because they don't have the confidence to and don't find it fun. I'd say just learn to play every potential spec of any char you play and get the most out of it rather than hating it because you've not practiced it before.

There is alot of pressure on tanks and healers, and there is usually 0 time for learning curve in a pug I've noticed.

Granted if I'm playing alongside the lads I know, they are more then helpful to help me out with what I should do or not do etc (Dar,phil,rooney,ant etc)

But when I go into random pug raids or heroics, should a player make a mistake they get a ****ing bollocking, which usually relates to a kick. People have zero time.

So to learn that tanking and healing role, you will need to have friends willing to give you the time to learn etc. You will only learn properly through raid experience.

One of the most annoying things I notice these days is that because raiding is so open to everyone that there is a bigger "prat" attitude going around. I'm an average player at best just trying to do with I'm told and not let people down.

But there is ltierally a large population of people that get a couple of tier pieces and think they are the business. I've witnessed alot of these types lately in naxx pugs and voa pugs and its getting very annoying, to the point where I'm dreading doing raids/heroics that are not with the irish lads.

Kyri

Claypigeon wrote: »

You should definitely play what you enjoy (it's a game) but at the same time it's an absolute joke that you get people rolling classes that *can* tank or *can heal* and yet LFG as dps and let their dualspec gather dust.

9/10 times, people don't tank or heal because they don't have the confidence to and don't find it fun. I'd say just learn to play every potential spec of any char you play and get the most out of it rather than hating it because you've not practiced it before.

Can I ask do you play a class that can Heal or Tank cos from this statement I kinda gather you play a pure dps class lol. Just cos you can play as a mixture of specs doesn't make you automatically capable of filling a role.

To tank you are very reliant on having gear that is capped in accordance to the class you play or your going to die and your going to get the whole group killed cos if ya aint capped the healer won't be able to keep ya alive and if you aint able to hold aggro which again if effected by your gear you arent going to be able to keep up your treat to stop the dps pulling from ya.

With healing its the same Crap - Do you have enough regen, a big enough mana pool, is your spell power good enough and do you have enough confidence to heal as its fecking hard.

You can take the 3 most retarded dps on the server in your group but if the tank and healer are good then you can do 75% of the heroics in game.

I definately agree with learning all your character can do but expecting someone that you dont know who may not have experience or even gear for a different spec to play an important role just as they're class can be played more then one way is a bit naive. Not all people in the wonderful world that is WoW are as good or multi talented as they could be if they just tried.

To the OP if your talking about heroics like 5 man heroics anyone moaning at ya about your group set up should be shot - There's enough people in your guild to do more then one group at a time so they should do less moaning but try make they're own group.

5 Mans are easy mode and they reset every day so who gives a monkies what the set up is aslong as the group can do the instance. If anyone is moaning cos they are DPS and want in over a Healer that offered to go before someone else did in his/her offspec then tell the moaner to get up of his ass and make his own group.

If your talking about 10 mans again first come first served however I know very few guilds that would allow someone to come in their offspec over the possibilty of gearing a main spec person unless they are swapping people in and out for gear etc. It's more about guild progression this reason though not pettiness. However I would think starting a Uldar 10 Man with a group of people playing offspec's would be suicide unless all their off gear is IMBA

Oh and you guys forgot us sexy shammies Being a Hybrid is such a pain in the T*ts

TechnoPool

Try being Prot Warrior before Dual spec in vanilla and TBC was so ****e to get money and farm.

nix

TechnoPool wrote: »

Try being Prot Warrior before Dual spec in vanilla and TBC was so ****e to get money and farm.

And holy priests

magicianz

I know how ye feel with being forced into a particular role. I have been made heal ulduar for the last few weeks and its my off spec! And the main healers are just slacking! They expect me to cover there asses and then if something goes wrong its my fault cause i aint geared my off spec! And that was after solo healing 3 plasma blasts on mimiron 10 cause they were both busy healing napalm targets -.-'

Finch*

i keep telling everyone my rogue can heal with all those heavy frostweave bandages i have in my bank but nobody will let me.

the man puttin' me down

smellslikeshoes

To be honest I just don't get why two healers would end up in a 5 man heroic run, when you're getting a heroic run going in the guild just say what you are looking for. If you want to tank, say that you are LF 3 dps and one healer, there really should be no reason why you end up with two healers. If they want to do the heroic they will join as what is needed.

Splinter

I have seen people stuck in roles in my guild, Im the priest CL but one thing i always say is that i refuse to make people go one spec or the other, its up to them and yes they are aware we may need them in that spec buut i dont make them do it. more often than not they will ofc do it but no obligation. My main spec has always been shadow but i have collected healing gear and i disc pvp and i have healed ulduar hardmodes to help out but forcing people to spec one way is just going to annoy them

dubhdara3

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

To be honest I just don't get why two healers would end up in a 5 man heroic run, when you're getting a heroic run going in the guild just say what you are looking for. If you want to tank, say that you are LF 3 dps and one healer, there really should be no reason why you end up with two healers. If they want to do the heroic they will join as what is needed.

To be honest, it was never that we had 2 healers in one heroic group... we had two potential healers in one group, i.e. me as a Paladin was tanking, and we had a priest healer... or if I was healing, and one of our Shaman's was DPS'ing, it meant that two potential healers were locked to that instance, and were also busy if someone else was looking to do something.

But I agree completely, forcing someone into a particular spec is really not the way to go, since they are unlikely to enjoy it, and the only excuse (if it could be called an excuse) is that the guild pays for a respec, and helps them get the gear, and experience in the new spec, but still allows them to play their own style as well