Generation M

Nevyn

Generation M
Misogyny in Media & Culture

Has anyone else seen this, and if so what did you think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEd2ZGLsUew

http://www.mediaed.org/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=234

Generation M
Misogyny in Media & Culture

Despite the achievements of the women's movement over the past four decades, misogyny remains a persistent force in American culture. In this important documentary, Thomas Keith, professor of philosophy at California State University-Long Beach, looks specifically at misogyny and sexism in mainstream American media, exploring how negative definitions of femininity and hateful attitudes toward women get constructed and perpetuated at the very heart of our popular culture.

The film tracks the destructive dynamics of misogyny across a broad and disturbing range of media phenomena: including the hyper-sexualization of commercial products aimed at girls, the explosion of violence in video games aimed at boys, the near-hysterical sexist rants of hip-hop artists and talk radio shock jocks, and the harsh, patronizing caricatures of femininity and feminism that reverberate throughout the mainstream of American popular culture.

Along the way, Generation M forces us to confront the dangerous real-life consequences of misogyny in all its forms - making a compelling case that when we devalue more than half the population based on gender, we harm boys and men as well as women and girls.

Featuring interviews with gender violence prevention educators Byron Hurt, Jackson Katz, and Jean Kilbourne.

hippiechickie

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Nevyn

Pretty much my concerns and from both sides as I have a son and a daughter.

Das Kitty

IMO it's the images in magazines aimed at the young girls themselves that are most damaging. The closest thing we had in our early teens to the likes that are about now was Just 17, and that was a pretty responsible magazine all things considered.

After watching the video, it reminded me of my first trip to the States going out for a drink with my friend who had moved over and her college friends, some of the opinions the girls had on keeping a man had my eyes out on stalks! Then at a wedding my OH was sick of dancing so I asked one of the guys at the table if he'd bring me out. He seriously thought I was trying to make my OH jealous and was afraid of getting a punch. I had to explain that my OH doesn't own me and dancing a frigging old time waltz is not equivalent to ****ing. I'm sure there are Irish people with similar ideas but thankfully I haven't had too many dealings. I think those people really brought the issues still in existence home to me, misogyny is alive and well.

banshee_bones

I can see how you would be concerned. The media is saturated with this kind of stuff as that video pointed out.

Its in the Teenage magazines, the glossys, all the music channels.Then you have The E! channel which seems purely dedicated to this culture showing things like Girls of The playboy mansion, Kendra, Keeping up with the Kardashians. This is what you have to contend with.
Then on the other hand you have game consoles and how violent some/most? of the games out there are for xbox,playstation, etc.

If we are a culture becoming so desensitised to violence im not surprised at those kind of figure for domestic abuse. Knife Culture is also on the rise in Ireland. Figures from the Central Statistics Office at the end of that year showed the number of people caught in possession of knives jumped by 86% between 2003 and 2007.
The number of murders involving knives increased more than five-fold, from five to 32.

(Source) http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/two-attacks-highlight-scourge-of-knife-culture-98676.html#ixzz0Pr7J1CSG

What is the root cause of this? Is it the videogames? Bad parenting ? Peer Pressure? Lack of Education or is it just the media culture surrounding the youth of today?

Permabear

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kayos

Das Kitty wrote: »

IMO it's the images in magazines aimed at the young girls themselves that are most damaging. The closest thing we had in our early teens to the likes that are about now was Just 17, and that was a pretty responsible magazine all things considered.

Thank you I had a big reply written about how the OP pointed out the adult male market magazines as being the ones that are doing this. Heck I even had a bit about just 17 (or some mag a female friend used get which thought most of us young fellas a lot about sex when we were young teens). Lets not forget cosmo as well. Young female magazines have the latest diet, the latest fashion worn by size zero sticks, agony aunt colums where sex is a frequent topic etc etc. Zoo and Nuts are very recent additions to the market and yes they dont do much for the female of the species, but the female magazine market has been doing more or less the same for years..... go into a magazine shop and I bet you will find more than one female magazine cover with either how to loss 10pounds in a couple of weeks or the ten latest sex tips to drive you man wild in bed type headlines on the front cover.

Nevyn

The clip and the movie covers all media not just 'lads mags' and yes so called women's mags are worse imho.

donegalfella I'd love to see you site come recent examples of women celebrated for their "brains, personalities, and achievements.

Permabear

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Nevyn

But none of this get the same level of publicity as kerry katona or Jade.

Permabear

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Nevyn

Butyou have to know thier names and who they are to be able to google them.

Malari

donegalfella wrote: »

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Well, doesn't that prove the point that only if a female version of Wayne Rooney was "hawt" to use the vernacular, would she have as many hits! Wayne is not exactly a stud.

Permabear

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Permabear

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metrovelvet

donegalfella wrote: »

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I bet you ask any under 30, man or woman who those people are and they wont know, but they will know who any number of other bimbos who voluntarily self destruct on camera are.

However, I dont know how much of this is mysogyny and how much of it is a human need to worship and to tear down our god[esses].

Permabear

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metrovelvet

donegalfella wrote: »

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I think it is a part of it but not all of it. Also one has to ask, why is that it is, as far as I can see, and it could be selective abstraction on mypart, that it's young women who fuel the fire under these pedastals. The same fire which will eventually destroy them.

OK there are usually half naked bombshells on men's magazines, but the men's magazines don't seem half as preoccupied with the worship and destroy element of this. It is there... but not to the same obsessive extent.

Malari

donegalfella wrote: »

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I agree, but I think misogyny is a separate issue.

metrovelvet

donegalfella wrote: »

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Yeah but it does seem like the balance tips in the direction of women.

shellyboo

metrovelvet wrote: »

I think it is a part of it but not all of it. Also one has to ask, why is that it is, as far as I can see, and it could be selective abstraction on mypart, that it's young women who fuel the fire under these pedastals. The same fire which will eventually destroy them.

OK there are usually half naked bombshells on men's magazines, but the men's magazines don't seem half as preoccupied with the worship and destroy element of this. It is there... but not to the same obsessive extent.

Do you not think it's a supply and demand issue? It's women who are buying the magazines... the magazines do not dictate their readership, like. There's a market for that sort of journalism because women LOVE to tear other women down.

I wouldn't be too concerned about the Nuts of this world, apart from the effect it could have on very young people, but the obsessive destruction of female celebrities in the media is very worrying to me. And that's something that women actively seek out to read, because it feeds our fragile egos.

It's a vicious circle - the glossies tear down our self-esteem with airbrushed images of the perfect body, and we attempt to fill that hole with trashy "news" of the latest celeb meltdown, breakup, or failed diet. And I'm not sure which part of that cycle is sadder.

Permabear

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Jessibelle

shellyboo wrote: »

Do you not think it's a supply and demand issue? It's women who are buying the magazines... the magazines do not dictate their readership, like. ....

It's a vicious circle - the glossies tear down our self-esteem with airbrushed images of the perfect body, and we attempt to fill that hole with trashy "news" of the latest celeb meltdown, breakup, or failed diet. And I'm not sure which part of that cycle is sadder.

I'd agree a lot with this but I also think the portrayal of 'celebrities' within the media varies radically between the genders. Men "behaving badly" are frequently rehabilitated at the blink of an eye within the media whereas women seem to be held to account far more. Take for example, Chris Brown vs Amy Winehouse, she’s all over every magazine, covering several pages for every relapse, rehabs etc. Her newly claimed sobriety is being analyzed to within an inch of its life with pictures tracking the progress, who's shes with, how she's coping etc. Chris Brown, who admits beating his girlfriend is portrayed as a penitent and beyond a small quarter page article, it’s all quietly dropped beyond that.

shellyboo

Jessibelle wrote: »

I'd agree a lot with this but I also think the portrayal of 'celebrities' within the media varies radically between the genders. Men "behaving badly" are frequently rehabilitated at the blink of an eye within the media whereas women seem to be held to account far more. Take for example, Chris Brown vs Amy Winehouse, she’s all over every magazine, covering several pages for every relapse, rehabs etc. Her newly claimed sobriety is being analyzed to within an inch of its life with pictures tracking the progress, who's shes with, how she's coping etc. Chris Brown, who admits beating his girlfriend is portrayed as a penitent and beyond a small quarter page article, it’s all quietly dropped beyond that.

Yes... but my point is that women are the biggest consumers of the kind of mainstream magazines which report this stuff... all the magazines are doing is catering to the readership. They wouldn't print it if it didn't sell.

Women are more interested in reading about a woman's downfall than a man's. It's as simple as that, horrible and all as it may seem.

Basically, what I'm saying is - yes, there is a lot of misogyny in the printed media. But that misogyny is driven and perpetrated by women just as much as men.

Permabear

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Jessibelle

shellyboo wrote: »

Basically, what I'm saying is - yes, there is a lot of misogyny in the printed media. But that misogyny is driven and perpetrated by women just as much as men.

I'd agree 100% with this!

iguana

metrovelvet wrote: »

I bet you ask any under 30, man or woman who those people are and they wont know, but they will know who any number of other bimbos who voluntarily self destruct on camera are.

Tbf, I'm sure pretty much everyone knows who Hilary Clinton is.

Stheno

iguana wrote: »

Tbf, I'm sure pretty much everyone knows who Hilary Clinton is.

You'd be surprised imo

Dudess

hippiechickie wrote: »

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I remember that thread, hippiechickie, and it got out of hand (to say the least) but I think your detractors were only saying "men like to look at naked chicks and that's just the way it is - nobody put a gun to those women's heads" which, in my opinion, is perfectly reasonable. I don't think there is anything inherently misogynistic about such magazines. Ok, the girls take their clothes off and pose - maybe some consider the existence of that abhorrent, in and of itself, but I'd be more concerned about the blatantly nasty images in e.g. some music videos. Snoop sneering as he drops a bunch of dollar bills on two passive, ditzy-looking girls cavorting on a bed is way more objectionable to me than Nuts magazine (and some music videos are grotesquely misandrist also).

metrovelvet wrote: »

Yeah but it does seem like the balance tips in the direction of women.

If the media isn't obsessed with Amy's mental wellbeing, it's obsessed with Britney's... and if it's not Britney's, it's Kerry's.

SheRa

i've run out of thank you's. oops think i was a bit trigger happy:o:D.

anyway i completely agree with the last 2 posts. i would imagine that a few women i know would not know who hillary clinton is. i am constantly amazed how little a lot of men and women know about current affairs. its scary actually.

Permabear

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metrovelvet

iguana wrote: »

Tbf, I'm sure pretty much everyone knows who Hilary Clinton is.

Sure, but is she a target of mysogyny? I dont see it and mysogyny is what this thread is about.

Macha

shellyboo wrote: »

Basically, what I'm saying is - yes, there is a lot of misogyny in the printed media. But that misogyny is driven and perpetrated by women just as much as men.

As much? How do you quantify that? And why do you blame women that fall into the role carved out for them by misogyny for creating and perpetuating those roles?

I am an intelligent feminist but I still hate my body and in doing so perpetuate the Naomi Wolf's beauty myth. Is that my fault? I'm only human and I respond to the society around me in ways that are logical to a point. Society tells me I have to worry about my body and fit into a particular form of beauty. I know that's stupid and I should be happy the way I am but I also go to the gym 4 times a week, agonise over what I eat and feel anxious when on a beach in a bikini.

Is that my fault? I may not buy these magazines but I'm a symptom of what's going on just as much as they are.

shellyboo

taconnol wrote: »

As much? How do you quantify that? And why do you blame women that fall into the role carved out for them by misogyny for creating and perpetuating those roles?

Because what we're talking about is the media... I'm using the example of mainstream, printed media. Mainly bought by women. The subject matter - airbrushed, pouting model/actresses; celebrities whose lives are falling apart - is dictated by the readership, women.

We eat it up. We LOVE it. Take Glamour, Grazia, Cosmo, Heat magazine... female editors all. All choosing the subject matter of the magazine. And the women who buy the magazines are perpetuating the roles.

Personally, I will not buy a magazine if I see Jordan/Kerry Katona et al on the cover. I won't give money to a business that glorifies misogyny. And if you think that the kind of misogyny in women's magazines is driven by anything other than demand... well, I'd say you're a tad naive.

taconnol wrote: »

I am an intelligent feminist but I still hate my body and in doing so perpetuate the Naomi Wolf's beauty myth. Is that my fault? I'm only human and I respond to the society around me in ways that are logical to a point. Society tells me I have to worry about my body and fit into a particular form of beauty. I know that's stupid and I should be happy the way I am but I also go to the gym 4 times a week, agonise over what I eat and feel anxious when on a beach in a bikini.

Is that my fault? I may not buy these magazines but I'm a symptom of what's going on just as much as they are.

It's not your fault personally, it's society's fault. But society as a whole, not just men - and yes, I would go so far as to say that women hate themselves more than men hate women.

metrovelvet

taconnol wrote: »

As much? How do you quantify that? And why do you blame women that fall into the role carved out for them by misogyny for creating and perpetuating those roles?

I am an intelligent feminist but I still hate my body and in doing so perpetuate the Naomi Wolf's beauty myth. Is that my fault? I'm only human and I respond to the society around me in ways that are logical to a point. Society tells me I have to worry about my body and fit into a particular form of beauty. I know that's stupid and I should be happy the way I am but I also go to the gym 4 times a week, agonise over what I eat and feel anxious when on a beach in a bikini.

Is that my fault? I may not buy these magazines but I'm a symptom of what's going on just as much as they are.

Actually it kind of is your fault. You dont have to buy into it. You are clearly an intelligent woman, you dont have to be a sucker for it.

It saddens me that when looking for a babygrow I came across one for a girl that says on the front "does this nappy make me look fat?"

Wibbs

shellyboo wrote: »

Because what we're talking about is the media... I'm using the example of mainstream, printed media. Mainly bought by women. The subject matter - airbrushed, pouting model/actresses; celebrities whose lives are falling apart - is dictated by the readership, women.

We eat it up. We LOVE it. Take Glamour, Grazia, Cosmo, Heat magazine... female editors all. All choosing the subject matter of the magazine. And the women who buy the magazines are perpetuating the roles.

Personally, I will not buy a magazine if I see Jordan/Kerry Katona et al on the cover. I won't give money to a business that glorifies misogyny. And if you think that the kind of misogyny in women's magazines is driven by anything other than demand... well, I'd say you're a tad naive.



It's not your fault personally, it's society's fault. But society as a whole, not just men - and yes, I would go so far as to say that women hate themselves more than men hate women.

Great post and sad to say I have to agree with your last paragraph. While men can defo be boors at times, in my life I have heard and seen more women hold themselves and other women back and judge themselves and other women far far more than men do.

I would also agree with you re the magazine angle. The media in general and magazines in particular have a fairly high amount of women involved. I would reckon there's a much higher proportion of women in control than any other mainstream industry I can think of. Look at the credits of most entertainment programming on TV, in particular the frothy stuff.

Fashion is driven mostly by women and gay men. Thats not a criticism of either, but straight men who often come under the most fire as being a large cause of this are pretty unrepresented in that arena. Yes you have the Loaded type mags and they do plug into a stereotype, but a lot of it is on the existing stereotype in our society. Even there, while you do see slim women, the emaciated and pubescent look more favoured by the fashion industry is pretty thin on the ground. Ditto with pornography.

As for women falling into the trap of what the society says they should look like, that's not a new thing. It's happened before and it's pretty consistent across time and cultures. There is always a look held up as an ideal. The greeks had an ideal look for women, the egyptians the same, hunter gatherers ditto. The need to strive for that ideal is strong, whatever it is. From the ancient woman trying to pile on the pounds to the new york socialite surviving on celery. Men at various times have had ideals too. Art is full of them. The pressure is more on women now, but there exists pressure on men too. How many silly mens mags do you see where the tagline of "how to get washboard abs in six weeks" is a recurring theme. Same with online. Type in killer abs in google and prepare to be swamped.

While this stuff has always been in the background, I do think mass media has focused on it to a massively unhealthy ideal and made billions from that focus and will continue to do so until the grass roots cries stop. It has also promoted a cartoon like ideal that very very few can come close to. That's where things are different. Most earlier ideals of beauty were achievable by far more of the population. As I say hopefully people, men and women wll call a halt, but I honestly and sadly can't see that happening anytime soon though.

shellyboo

Wibbs wrote: »

Great post and sad to say I have to agree with your last paragraph. While men can defo be boors at times, in my life I have heard and seen more women hold themselves and other women back and judge themselves and other women far far more than men do.

Even in day-to-day life, I can think of a good handful of men who genuinely *love* women (yourself included ), but I can't think of one woman who truly loves herself.

I realise the irony of me coming into a thread about misogyny and giving out that women are misogynist, by the way... but I just think that we can't tack the problem of male-perpetuated misogyny until we tackle the issue within our own gender first.

JC 2K3

Thaedydal wrote: »

But none of this get the same level of publicity as kerry katona or Jade.

Do male intellectuals get more publicity than their big brother/pop star counterparts?

I certainly wouldn't think the average person would know much more about men celebrated for their "brains, personalities and achievements".

I think it's a problem with society embracing the superficial over intellect and substance in general, nothing to do with gender.

Not to say that there aren't gender issues related to the media, however, this is not strictly one of them IMO.

iguana

shellyboo wrote: »

Even in day-to-day life, I can think of a good handful of men who genuinely *love* women (yourself included ), but I can't think of one woman who truly loves herself.

I love myself. I love how I look, I love how my body and mind works, I love being me. The main things I dislike about myself are injuries. I injured my back 10 years ago which causes me problems on an ongoing basis, I broke my nose 9 years ago which causes me headaches (and I hate the little bump) and I broke my elbow 5 years ago which weakens my arm.

I also have a tendency toward laziness which I'm not massively fond of. I could have achieved lots more with my life if I wasn't so fond of entertaining myself. But I'm largely content and often congratulate myself on how lucky I am to be me. I don't mean that in a big headed way, I don't think I'm better than other people. But I'm really happy in my own skin and head.

panda100

metrovelvet wrote: »

Actually it kind of is your fault. You dont have to buy into it. You are clearly an intelligent woman, you dont have to be a sucker for it.

Hmmm I dunno. It is very difficult not to buy into these things unless you completely isolate yourself from other women and society.

Somethings in womens magazines are great.Personally for me I learnt everything about sex and contraception from Cosmo, thank you Catholic Irish upbringing
I buy Grazia every now and again and I do watch the Hills becasue it gives me something to talk about with other women my own age and I live with my friends who all watch and buy these things, It would be alienating for me If I did not buy into what most women my age buy into. It gives me something in common with other women, maybe in the way that men have sports to bond over.


The last bit of that youtube clip reminded me of a song I heared on the radio the other day, 'Sexy Bitch'. I think its number 1 in the UK and Ireland at the moment. Anyways I was pretty alarmed when I heared the lyrics"

"She is nothing like a girl you've ever seen before, nothing you can compare to your neighborhood hoe
I'm trying find the words to describe this girl without being disrespectful

The way that booty movin i cant take no more

Have to stop what I'm doing so I can pull her close
I'm trying to find the words to describe this girl without being disrespectful

(Damn Girl)

Chorus
Damn You's a sexy bitch, a sexy bitch
Damn you's a sexy bitch, damn girl
Damn You's a sexy bitch, a sexy bitch
Damn you's a sexy bitch, damn girl "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfQXmcuzXu4

Then theres the obligatory video of lots of scantily clad gyrating women all touching their (perfect) bodies putting on porn star orgasmic faces while Akon just sits there singing.
Why is Akon not in a bikini gyrating?

Permabear

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metrovelvet

panda100 wrote: »

Hmmm I dunno. It is very difficult not to buy into these things unless you completely isolate yourself from other women and society.

Somethings in womens magazines are great.Personally for me I learnt everything about sex and contraception from Cosmo, thank you Catholic Irish upbringing
I buy Grazia every now and again and I do watch the Hills becasue it gives me something to talk about with other women my own age and I live with my friends who all watch and buy these things, It would be alienating for me If I did not buy into what most women my age buy into. It gives me something in common with other women, maybe in the way that men have sports to bond over.


The last bit of that youtube clip reminded me of a song I heared on the radio the other day, 'Sexy Bitch'. I think its number 1 in the UK and Ireland at the moment. Anyways I was pretty alarmed when I heared the lyrics"

"She is nothing like a girl you've ever seen before, nothing you can compare to your neighborhood hoe
I'm trying find the words to describe this girl without being disrespectful

The way that booty movin i cant take no more

Have to stop what I'm doing so I can pull her close
I'm trying to find the words to describe this girl without being disrespectful

(Damn Girl)

Chorus
Damn You's a sexy bitch, a sexy bitch
Damn you's a sexy bitch, damn girl
Damn You's a sexy bitch, a sexy bitch
Damn you's a sexy bitch, damn girl "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfQXmcuzXu4

Then theres the obligatory video of lots of scantily clad gyrating women all touching their (perfect) bodies putting on porn star orgasmic faces while Akon just sits there singing.
Why is Akon not in a bikini gyrating?

I suppose I differ with you there. I could never force myself to watch that crap or begin to talk about it. I find them painfully tedious.

What you are talking about is peer pressure. Yuu do have a choice, you dont have to give into it if you genuinely are not interested in that stuff.

Yes body image is a hard one to fight. The marketers have all found ways to both profit from and increase female insecurity. Anyway they can separate you from your money - that is why you have women, young and old spending money on makeup that cost more than gold per ounce. We are more than a clothes hanger and more than our reproductive values.

There is no point in arguing that mysogyny doesn't exist, from both men and women, but I think they stem from different dynamics respectively.

shellyboo

panda100 wrote: »

Hmmm I dunno. It is very difficult not to buy into these things unless you completely isolate yourself from other women and society.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. I do not isolate myself from the media, I work in it, I'm immersed in it, and if anything it makes me more aware of what a crock of shlt it is.

When you get a grip on the fact that it is an industry, and everything about the industry is geared towards making you spend money, then how can we continue to be duped by it? I mean, does any half-intelligent woman still read Cosmo and see the latest "cellulite-destroying" product and think they *actually* need it or that it *actually* works? Is it just me that can read that and go "oh, someone got a free sample of that €300 cream this month", or look for the corresponding advert for the same product later in the magazine?

I try not to buy into anything the media feeds me, because I am extremely skeptical - and I don't think I'm in any way alienated from my peers. I have plenty of female friends, and we find plenty to talk about other than the Hills, which I have never watched.

I'm not trying to be disparaging, but it just riles me to see women (not you, I'm being generally ranty here) giving out about misogyny and sexism and then turning around and buying right into the machine that feeds it to us.

MTV is a classic example. Where do we think that music video posted will be played? Whose audience does the video cater to? MTV's. Yet we watch a programme made by the same channel that encourages this sort of objectification, that *requires* it for most of its broadcast material.

We can't have it all ways. Either we take a stand and reject the magazines, channels, products that perpetrate misogyny or we stfu.

I realise this seems like an attack on your post panda, it's really not meant to be! It's just a generic rant.

Malari

shellyboo wrote: »

Even in day-to-day life, I can think of a good handful of men who genuinely *love* women (yourself included ), but I can't think of one woman who truly loves herself.

Aargh, just wrote a long post and my internet crashed. Grr.

Anyway, the jist was that I don't think women are rewarded for loving themselves. It's not an admired characteristic. I think the magazines play to this. The supermodel who has issues with her legs, the actress with cellulite. The message is that everyone has problems, you [Jane Doe] are not alone.

Look at the recent thread in tLL which asked what you hate about yourself, or something along those lines. Women who don't hate themselves felt almost embarrassed or guilty to say so. The assumption is that every woman hates herself, or should do.

metrovelvet

donegalfella wrote: »

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The Kerry Katonas and Jades - seem to be part of a British Phenomena where you can be a celbrity without actually doing anything but be a twat. The US has its self destructive ones - like Britney Spears, etc but they are also something else - performers. So I think there is something else thrown into the mix that is distinctly British that moves beyond mysogyny, but I cant put my finger on it.

Its hard to any of them as victims when you see the amount of money they get for this publicity. They are crying all the way to the bank.

shellyboo

Malari wrote: »

Anyway, the jist was that I don't think women are rewarded for loving themselves. It's not an admired characteristic. I think the magazines play to this. The supermodel who has issues with her legs, the actress with cellulite. The message is that everyone has problems, you [Jane Doe] are not alone.

Look at the recent thread in tLL which asked what you hate about yourself, or something along those lines. Women who don't hate themselves felt almost embarrassed or guilty to say so. The assumption is that every woman hates herself, or should do.

I agree 100% - but I'd say that the pressure to hate yourself comes from other women and not men. I don't think men find insecurity attractive.

EDIT: Most men don't find insecurity attractive, I mean. There are men out there who thrive on their partner's insecurities and use them as a stick to beat them with, but that's a separate issue.

iguana

donegalfella wrote: »

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There were definitely things said about her which would not have been said about men. The same was true of Sarah Palin. There were constant comments of it being like a bad Disney movie about a "hockey mom" who gets to be vice president. As if she was just some naive mother plucked from obscurity to run for office.

In reality she was a state governor, a higher political office than senator, which Obama, McCain and Biden were. Granted governor of Alaska is like captain of a small science ship versus first officer of Obama's Starship Enterprise. But nonetheless she held the higher political rank than senator and had a career in politics behind her, just like the other presidential/vice-presidential candidates. Despite the fact that so many of her policies were so easy to criticise, the number one criticism leveled against her was motherhood. That wouldn't have happened to a man and can certainly be described as misogynistic. Although I do think she was chosen to run in part because she was a woman and the Republicans hoped to pick up disappointed Hilary supporters.

metrovelvet

Malari wrote: »

Aargh, just wrote a long post and my internet crashed. Grr.

Anyway, the jist was that I don't think women are rewarded for loving themselves. It's not an admired characteristic. I think the magazines play to this. The supermodel who has issues with her legs, the actress with cellulite. The message is that everyone has problems, you [Jane Doe] are not alone.

Look at the recent thread in tLL which asked what you hate about yourself, or something along those lines. Women who don't hate themselves felt almost embarrassed or guilty to say so. The assumption is that every woman hates herself, or should do.

Sure it makes money.

metrovelvet

shellyboo wrote: »

I agree 100% - but I'd say that the pressure to hate yourself comes from other women and not men. I don't think men find insecurity attractive.

EDIT: Most men don't find insecurity attractive, I mean. There are men out there who thrive on their partner's insecurities and use them as a stick to beat them with, but that's a separate issue.

No. But they find it profitable. And lets face it, men like money.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

iguana

Malari wrote: »

Anyway, the jist was that I don't think women are rewarded for loving themselves. It's not an admired characteristic. I think the magazines play to this. The supermodel who has issues with her legs, the actress with cellulite. The message is that everyone has problems, you [Jane Doe] are not alone.

No we're not. Notice how I felt compelled to add "I don't mean to be big headed, I don't think I'm better than anyone else" when I wrote about how I love myself. The one thing I don't feel overly confident about is saying that I love myself, because it often has such negative reactions. But I do I love myself. I celebrate the good things about me and I don't really care about the "negatives" except like I said my laziness and injuries.