Fog lights story

L1011

Newjellyboxer wrote: »

Maybe it justs me put I remember a Government campaign about 15 years ago telling people to drive with lights on be it day or night.

Dipped headlights not fog lights. I always have my dips on, never actually get turned off in my main car (it turns them off itself when you kill the ignition) and its become part of my standard routine when starting the van.

NFD100

benwavner wrote: »

People here love to quote "in the UK"


Guess what.....Im in Ireland, and I use my front fog lights. Less drivers dart out in front of me from a side road when I have them on, I do it because I am more visable to people, not to look cool.

On another note, if I had my back fog light on for no reason, I would consider myself to be an assh*le!

ahem...... http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/fog_lights.html

From the IRISH rules of the road

'Remember:

You must use fog lights only in dense fog or falling snow. Turn them off in clear weather or you will risk causing glare or dazzling other drivers.'

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Thanks NFD100, but you missed my point.:rolleyes: Because you didnt understand my point:rolleyes:...here it is again.:rolleyes:

Why are people bothering with "in the UK" quotes..we are in Ireland.

I wasnt implying that we dont have that law in Ireland:rolleyes:

NFD100 wrote: »

ahem...... http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/fog_lights.html

From the IRISH rules of the road

'Remember:

You must use fog lights only in dense fog or falling snow. Turn them off in clear weather or you will risk causing glare or dazzling other drivers.'

marious

i.e. 1 penalty point off gardai for abusing fog lights should sort the problem out but they can't unfortunately... on the other side some guards see offences and don't react so.. I don't know if that actually would change anything

di2772

I dont dip my lights when i see someone coming towards me with foglights on.
If the flash me i just flash my fogs at them. Maybe if enough people did this it would solve the problem.

Outkast_IRE

I just hate when someone behind you has them on and they keep hitting your mirror and blinding ya.

Wishbone Ash

di2772 wrote: »

I dont dip my lights when i see someone coming towards me with foglights on.
If the flash me i just flash my fogs at them. Maybe if enough people did this it would solve the problem.

I don't see the logic of that at all. Driving with front fogs on is illegal except in heavy fog or falling snow. Why then, drag yourself down to their level and blind them? It makes no sense at all. You should maintain the higher moral ground, or you'll only make them justify their actions!

regedit

benwavner wrote: »

People here love to quote "in the UK"


Guess what.....Im in Ireland, and I use my front fog lights. Less drivers dart out in front of me from a side road when I have them on, I do it because I am more visable to people, not to look cool.

On another note, if I had my back fog light on for no reason, I would consider myself to be an assh*le!

I am in Ireland too but I never use the fog lights unless there's dense fog on the roads (1-2 times a year). By having them fog lights on, you show disrespect toward other drivers ahead of you. You are visible, that I can tell you but you probably cause havoc for people driving ahead of you (not that you see to care).
I've spoken to drivers from Finland, Sweden, Austria and Germany and basically, it's a mockery when it comes to driving here.
Again, the fog lights have been done and dusted here numerous times and this did not help people use them more wisely!

hidinginthebush

Biro wrote: »

When you turn the stalk once, these are your parking lights. They're only supposed to be used to illuminate your car when stationary so it can be seen easier if you're stopped at the side of the road for a short time.
The next twist of the stalk is your headlights, which should be turned on in poor visibility, rain, or at night. The headlights have two settings, dipped and full (or main beam). Dipped is for on-coming traffic, when driving behind someone and in built up areas. Main is for unlit areas where there is no on-coming traffic or no car ahead of you. Switching between dipped and main lights is usually by pushing/pulling the stalk. The blue light indicates the main beam.
Fog lights are different. They're a seperate switch, either a small twisty switch on the stalk or a seperate button. There is always rear fog lights, and sometimes front fog lights. Both symbols have a wavey line down through them. Rear fog lights symbol is orange, front is green.
Did you not learn any of this when learning to drive?

Cheers, leaned most of it, but then again I was just making sure

corktina wrote: »

ive read that three times and Im still not sure its not a wind up....
i hope the poster is going to come back and say they are a learner who hasnt got very far with their lessons yet. It does prove my point though...many people dont really know what light s they should have on and when...

Nah passed the test back in April, the reply confirmed most of what I knew already, apart from the parking lights, was just making sure

di2772

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I don't see the logic of that at all. Driving with front fogs on is illegal except in heavy fog or falling snow. Why then, drag yourself down to their level and blind them? It makes no sense at all. You should maintain the higher moral ground, or you'll only make them justify their actions!

Because if enough people do this to them they might finally figure out that it is because of their fog lights being on and turn them off.

marious

trust me my friend, unlikely... people getting in front of you forcing you to brake, crossing lanes without indicators, going straight from lane dedicated to turn... but if you'll honk they will honk you back asking wtf is wrong with you they have no clue what they've done wrong and thats most upsetting

GeneHunt

di2772 wrote: »

I dont dip my lights when i see someone coming towards me with foglights on.
If the flash me i just flash my fogs at them. Maybe if enough people did this it would solve the problem.

I strongly suggest that you refrain from this for your own safety, as you are blinding that driver who in turn could crash into you. I have in the passed mainly at night used my own rear fog light (temporarily) to get a driver behind me to turn off there front fog lights, if there lights are dazzling me, why should I adjust my rear view mirror and door mirrors was my thinking at the time! It worked too, and a flash of the hazards lights to thank him/her for switching off the offending lights too.

stifz

corktina wrote: »

no its not what you said. If you are travelling in fog you can suddenly hit a denser patch .if one loses sight of the guy in front cos he's turned off his rears as the fog "is thinner here" and he panics and slows down, you could run into him and thus a chain reaction could occur and a multiple pile up. If its foggy to anydegree, the fogs need to be on and stay on...

Some road users take that to the extreme though.. Heavy fog on the motorway for example...and then.. A sure i'll leave them on in the middle of peak time traffic while crawling up to traffic lights in 2nd gear in city centre grid lock..

Now THAT drives me mad...

marious

did anybody notice that most of fog lighters are women?

big b

To me, the biggest issues are:

too many drivers don't know the difference between front fogs & additional driving lamps.

too many drivers think using fogs is an acceptable way of making themselves more visible, regardless of weather

too many drivers still think it looks cool to drive with side & fogs only. They thought that - in the uk :rolleyes: - 20 years ago, so maybe we'll cop on soon

the Guards really don't give a sh*t (in general)

biggest of all - yer average Irish driver gives not a feck for anyone else on the road. I'll drive the way i want to & the rest of you will have to work round that.

cruizer101

di2772 wrote: »

I dont dip my lights when i see someone coming towards me with foglights on.
If the flash me i just flash my fogs at them. Maybe if enough people did this it would solve the problem.

Yes, because two people approaching each other blinded is far safer than just one.

Come on now be sensible, just give them a flash, if that doesn't work blinding them isn't going to work either.

Also pg 33 of rules of the road states:
At the back:
Two red lights (commonly known as tail lights)
Two red brake lights
Two red reflectors
Number plate lighting
Direction indicator lights (amber only)

No requirmentment for rear fog light, I think it may be required in UK so all cars will just come with it as cheaper and easier to just leave it in.

ttm

I think there is a point that has been missed here.

Dipped headlights are tested for the NCT and legally have to be set so they don't blind on comming traffic therefore they can be used under any conditions without adversly affecting other drivers. There is no regualtion governing how fog lights are focused and thats one of the reasons if its not foggy they shouldn't be left on.

Wishbone Ash

ttm wrote: »

and thats one of the reasons if its not foggy they shouldn't be left on.

.....perhaps you meant to say that it's why it's illegal to have them on!

orbital83

The fog light switch in my car is designed in such a way that, if you want rear fogs, you have to switch them on each time you start the car. However for front fogs the switch will stay on permanently.

For me, that's enough proof that front fogs should be left on all the time. So I leave them on. ALL THE TIME. It's a perfectly fine clear night tonight, so I'm gonna go out for a little drive now. With my beautiful fog lights on. Muhahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa

marious

are you for real??

Ice_Box

Having fog lights on when there's no fog is like driving with your coat sticking out under the door. Or the boot left open. Or the petrol cap left open.

Its like holding up a sign saying you are stupid.

It portugal - Lisbon to be exact - they call them "fag lights". Its tells people your sexual preferance.

slimjimmc

ttm wrote: »

I think there is a point that has been missed here.

Dipped headlights are tested for the NCT and legally have to be set so they don't blind on comming traffic therefore they can be used under any conditions without adversly affecting other drivers. There is no regualtion governing how fog lights are focused and thats one of the reasons if its not foggy they shouldn't be left on.

There are indeed regulations governing how fog light are focussed and the NCT are supposed to check them, it's in their test manual (not sure if they actually do or can though) :

ROAD TRAFFIC (NATIONAL CAR TEST) REGULATIONS 2003 SI 405/2003

Item 33: auxiliary lamp aim

Reasons for refusal:

(1) the upper edge of a fog lamp beam is above the 2% horizontal line.
(2) the centre of a fog lamp beam pattern does not lie between the 0% and -2% vertical lines.
(3) the hotspot centre of an auxiliary lamp does not lie below the 0% horizontal line.
(4) the centre of the hotspot does not lie between the 0% and the -2% vertical lines.



Theres' a theory that driving at night with your front fogs on actually limits your vision. Front fog lights tend to flood the road immediately in front of the car with bright light. The theory is that your attention is naturally drawn to bright light therefore you sub-consciously tend to watch the road closer to you much more instead of looking into the distance, at least when driving on dipped headlights.

ttm

I couldn't really imagine they were "forgoten" about on the official NCT Regulations but I've put three cars through that definitely had defective fog lights according to those regs and they were never comented on, so had not indication that they were a test item.

regedit

big b wrote: »

To me, the biggest issues are:

too many drivers don't know the difference between front fogs & additional driving lamps.

too many drivers think using fogs is an acceptable way of making themselves more visible, regardless of weather

too many drivers still think it looks cool to drive with side & fogs only. They thought that - in the uk :rolleyes: - 20 years ago, so maybe we'll cop on soon

the Guards really don't give a sh*t (in general)

biggest of all - yer average Irish driver gives not a feck for anyone else on the road. I'll drive the way i want to & the rest of you will have to work round that.

This sums it up perfectly.

corktina

yep...the problem with front fogs is that they shine staight out in front, being designed to shine under a bank of fog (hopefully) whereas dipped headlights point down and to the left.

I just came back from the Uk,driven 2000 miles and only noticed ONE car with fogs on at an inapproriate time....yep, you guessed...a Dublin reg'd car...

ev612337

What gets me is all the total twats who insist on driving around with blazing front fog lamps on all the time. They are inconsiderate, rude and stupid motorists. There is no need for them and they add no visibility for the driver in normal conditions, they just serve to dazzle on-comming drivers and are likely responsible for many accidents on our roads. I drive extensively throughout Europe and I only see these twats here in Ireland. It's time a campaign was launched to alter the attitude of these moran drivers who think their cars look cool with fogs on at the front, but instead are endangering the lives of other road users, it's a disgrace.
David
Newtownforbes
Longford

ev612337

What gets me is all the total twats who insist on driving around with blazing front fog lamps on all the time. They are inconsiderate, rude and stupid motorists. There is no need for them and they add no visibility for the driver in normal driving conditions, they just serve to dazzle on-comming drivers and are likely responsible for many accidents on our roads. I drive extensively throughout Europe and I only see these twats here in Ireland. It's time a campaign was launched to alter the attitude of these moran drivers who think their cars look cool with fogs on at the front, but instead are endangering the lives of other road users, it's a disgrace.
David
Newtownforbes
Longford

marious

they should concede penalty points for that as well as not indicating

Wishbone Ash

Anyone else notice that an increasing number of Dublin Bus drivers appear to think it's OK to drive around with fronts fogs on when they are not required? :rolleyes:

MadsL

Anyone else notice that an increasing number of Dublin Bus drivers appear to think it's OK to drive around with fronts fogs on when they are not required?

Now THAT drives me demented!! I rang DB and they say it isn't their policy - I suggest ringing every time you see one - Bus Number - where & when...

Wishbone Ash

MadsL wrote: »

Now THAT drives me demented!! I rang DB and they say it isn't their policy

Of course it can't be their policy! Otherwise their policy would be advocating doing something which is illegal!

I'll consider telephoning the garage the next time I see one!

marious

what is making me sad is that a lot of truck drivers using fog lights without any reason as well You would be expecting more common sense from experienced, professional driver...
unfortunately not

GeneHunt

I’m shocked at a few of the comments on this thread, some people appear not to know how to turn on their lights in there own cars! OMG

This thread highlights a few of my pet hates. As follows

• The misuse of FOG lights
• Driving with only PARK lights on at night or in poor visibility.
• Driving with PARK lights and front fog lights on at night.
• Driving with NO lights on at dawn or dusk or even in dense fog*
• Having only one working front or rear light (that includes brake lights)

* I witnessed a few of these cases earlier this year alone - on one dark foggy morning I met an old 90’s BMW 5 series travelling at speed with no lights on and his face up against the windscreen, trying to see the road I guess! Madness…

Driving with fogs on (day or night) in clear weather is WRONG, its dazzles other road users, especially if the road is wet, plain and simple, end of story, no buts or ands about it. If you want to be safer on the road, drive with dipped lights on 24/7. I have been driving for the last 8 or 9 years with dipped lights on.
As I do a fair bit of driving, and my current car has automatic dipped lights (light sensitive switch) which automatically turns on the dipped lights if daylight is poor or if the wipers are on (and of course if its dark!), but this year I decided to install Daylight Running Lights on my car (like these) and I also wanted to get more life out of my dipped bulbs. I have the DRL’s set up to only work went the dipped lights are off. From January 2011 we will see the coming into force of European legislation that states all cars manufactured after that date will require daylight running lights. New car models are starting to have these light fitted as standard already ie Opel Insignia and most new Audis and Saabs.

Driving with fog lights on is a mind set which can be changed. 10, 15 years ago, if you drove with your dipped lights on other drivers would flash you to alert you of your lights were on. We have now come almost full circle, more cars – vehicles on the roads have their lights on than off nowadays, we just need to get the ones with fogs to switch to dipped lights! Here I think Gay Byrne (RSA) and Fachtna Murphy (The Garda Commissioner) could step up to the mark by starting a mandatory campaign of having your dipped lights on 24/7 from October to April and see would that reduce the statistics for road deaths and collisions. Now is the time to do this as we are coming into the winter months again.

Here’s a link to last years campaign from the The Irish Road Haulage Association!

rameire

in reply to genehunt just some info i found out a while ago.

link to thread
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055670186
and below is an email i sent and received to the rsa.


Lights

---

Just thought id let you guys know.
had a spare moment today and so the below is what i sent to the rsa.

Quote:
Dear Sir/Madam

I am writing to you as I believe a new campaign should be run by yourselves The AA and The Gardai in the run up to winter.

"Light up your Lives"

I commute from Athy to Dublin every day by motorcycle.
I see alot of traffic and commuting.
One thing that I notice alot are,
Cars with lights that are (edit) borken broken and/or not working properly.
As Autumn has dawned upon us and winter approaches,
The nights will be getting longer and so commuters will start to use their lights more.
I believe a campaign should be setup to advise people to check all their lights are working correctly and to their fullest.
You could also get the help of motor factors eg Halfords to run a campaign where they will help you check your lights to advise you if everything is in working order.

You could also run alongside this campaign, one to advise people to use their lights when it rains, or to use dipped lights from the time you get in the car till the time you get out of the car, no matter what time of the day or night.

I thank you for taking your time to read this email, and hope it goes into helping save lives.

regards

Rameire

This is the response i got after about an hour.


Quote:
Hi Rameire

Thank you for forwarding your suggestions. You will be happy to know we are doing just that with a number of campaigns with SIMI, Advance Pitstop and a Daylighted Campaign which we will launch as part of Irish Road Safety Week in October. We are also reminding pedestrians to wear high viz and have a joint campaign with the Irish Pharmacy Union and Age Action distributing high viz vests to older people. Towards the end of the month every child starting school will be given a high viz armband as well as High Glow Silver competition for students in 2nd class as part of our winter campaign activity. We are also publishing information on lights, bulbs etc. Once again thank you for taking the time to forward your ideas it is very much appreciated.

Regards

M. R.

GeneHunt

Thanks Rameire, for you reply and the link, I hadn’t found that thread,

We’ll know in a few weeks how these campaigns are going. I’m not sure if campaigns are the best way to change public opinion. How long has AA roadwatch (on the radio) been telling us to “switch off your fog lights once you come out of the affected areas” and that hasn’t caught on yet, I think.

ednwireland

i use my front driving lights (i have no warning light (and yes they are factory fit) to light up the side of the road but the i spend 90% of my time on unlit narrow back lanes where as far as i am concered more light = better

corktina

can you tell us the make and model of your car please.Most cars with auxiliary driving lights have them as additional main beams as far as in aware.

ttm

I think you can safely say if the lights are under the bumper (or below the middle of the bumper and part of the front skirt) then they are fog lights. Thats what I got told when a guard stopped me at a road block.

corktina

i believe so too...i think that driving lights have to be a certain height off the ground

Ham'nd'egger

corktina wrote: »

i believe so too...i think that driving lights have to be a certain height off the ground

I was told before (May have been a mechanic) that the reason why fog lights are lower down is because fog is thinner at surface level and less prone to refraction; the bulbs used are slightly different frequencies to headlights for the same reason.

Wishbone Ash

ednwireland wrote: »

i use my front driving lights (i have no warning light (and yes they are factory fit) to light up the side of the road but the i spend 90% of my time on unlit narrow back lanes where as far as i am concered more light = better

I'll accept that you may not be a affecting other drivers on narrow back lanes but I fail to see how your fog lights can assist you.

Heavy fog is very disorientating and is quite rare in this country. Driving in heavy fog is very challenging and involves driving at very slow speeds while using the edge of the road for guidance. Fog lights are designed to illuminate the edge of the road and for use at low speeds. Driving with fog lights at normal speeds is of no real benefit to you as you will have run over anything which they will have illuminated - i.e. you will not have enough time to react to anything which they may show.

jd

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I'll accept that you may not be a affecting other drivers on narrow back lanes but I fail to see how your fog lights can assist you.

Heavy fog is very disorientating and is quite rare in this country. Driving in heavy fog is very challenging and involves driving at very slow speeds while using the edge of the road for guidance. Fog lights are designed to illuminate the edge of the road and for use at low speeds. Driving with fog lights at normal speeds is of no real benefit to you as you will have run over anything which they will have illuminated - i.e. you will not have enough time to react to anything which they may show.

I agree with wishbone- I drove over the Connor Pass through fog/thick cloud. When you are driving at 10-20 km/hr in those conditions fog lights are useful. If you use fog lights at normal speeds they will just show you what you are going to hit!

Wishbone Ash

jd wrote: »

they will just show you what you are going to hit!

You've said it much better than I have!

Twin-go

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I'll accept that you may not be a affecting other drivers on narrow back lanes but I fail to see how your fog lights can assist you.

Heavy fog is very disorientating and is quite rare in this country. Driving in heavy fog is very challenging and involves driving at very slow speeds while using the edge of the road for guidance. Fog lights are designed to illuminate the edge of the road and for use at low speeds. Driving with fog lights at normal speeds is of no real benefit to you as you will have run over anything which they will have illuminated - i.e. you will not have enough time to react to anything which they may show.

So fogs are designed to illuminated the edge of the road only? Then how the fup do they dazzel on coming cars? I've said it before and I'll say it again, I have never been dazzeled by properly alined front fog lights. Incorrectly focused dipped beams, yes. Vans and 4x4s pulling trailers or with heavey loads and not redirecting the dip beams, yes. Fogs, never!!!!!!

L1011

Twin-go wrote: »

So fogs are designed to illuminated the edge of the road only? Then how the fup do they dazzel on coming cars? I've said it before and I'll say it again, I have never been dazzeled by properly alined front fog lights. Incorrectly focused dipped beams, yes. Vans and 4x4s pulling trailers or with heavey loads and not redirecting the dip beams, yes. Fogs, never!!!!!!

And yet I've been dazzled by both correctly (but misused) and incorrectly aligned fogs many, many times in my average 70,000+km per annum driving. Far more frequently than by improperly set up dips, etc.

marious

Twin-go wrote: »

So fogs are designed to illuminated the edge of the road only? Then how the fup do they dazzel on coming cars? I've said it before and I'll say it again, I have never been dazzeled by properly alined front fog lights. Incorrectly focused dipped beams, yes. Vans and 4x4s pulling trailers or with heavey loads and not redirecting the dip beams, yes. Fogs, never!!!!!!

If You're doing a lot of mileage over nights You know that every single light is dazzling You a bit and make Your eyes more tired. So if everybody was on fog lights on the road that would mean that your eyes will be 2 times more tired because you passed 2 times more lights than you should. I won't even mention about reflection off wet surface. In general: fog lights are in car for a reason just like hazard lights, full lights etc.