Generation Yes Fights Back

skelliser

so they are then? simple, yes or no

i dont care about the other parties and if my comments offended il retract them

Wheely

skelliser wrote: »

well answer me this, is it by shear coincidence that ogra fianna fail had there lisbon launch party weekend at the same venue and just after a generation yes table quiz/fundraiser?

BTW Generation Yes HQ did not sanction, support or provide any materials for any fundraising table quiz in Limerick. The only mention or knowledge of such an event is on the FF Ogra Limerick facebook page.

Wheely

skelliser wrote: »

so they are then? simple, yes or no

i dont care about the other parties and if my comments offended il retract them

God it's like spoon-feeding smoeone without a mouth.

Apparently YES!

WHAT
IS
YOUR
POINT?

oscarBravo

skelliser wrote: »

so they are then? simple, yes or no

i dont care about the other parties and if my comments offended il retract them

Your refusal to answer my questions offends. It seems to me that you were trying to insinuate something and got caught, and don't have the grace to admit it.

If you've something to say, say it. If you've nothing to say, don't bother posting.

skelliser

Wheely wrote: »

BTW Generation Yes HQ did not sanction, support or provide any materials for any fundraising table quiz in Limerick. The only mention or knowledge of such an event is on the FF Ogra Limerick facebook page.

ohh, so we are back tracking now! its a bit late now.
sorry the same post appears on ogra fianna fails official facebook page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=31179299043 and here www.ogra.ie

skelliser

ok i think its safe to assume at this stage that generation yes is/was set up by members of ogra fianna fail.
id also like to refer to a phoenix article on generation yes about funding through the iiea and brendan halligan role
with generation yes, btw he posted that post on the facebook sites

panda100

storinius wrote: »

Hi,

I've said this before, but i think that I need to say it again, because I really don't want the volunteers who are good enough to help us out besmirched.

I am from Generation YES. I can tell you categorically that we raise all our own money, and that we receive NO funds from either the EU or the Irish state. To do so would be illegal.

We are running a campaign that doesn't cost much money because a lot of it is online, and we have a FANTASTIC team of volunteers who care passionately about Ireland's future, and who see that future as being greatly aided by the reforms brought in by the Lisbon Treaty. If you would like to discuss any of these reforms, such as the fact that Lisbon mandates more money to be spent in research and development (Article 194), helps fight cross border crime (Article 83), or gives more transparency to decision making in Brussels (Articles 15 and 16) I would be happy to do so. But please stop just insulting us, and calling us corrupt.

Thanks.

Hi,
Could you try and return the calls and emails from the Socialist Youth officer?
They have been trying to contact Generation YES for weeks to set up a formal public debate on the Lisbon Treaty.

I do find it very hypocritical that you slate the Socialist Party in that Youtube video using sensationalists pictures and pic and mix slogans that suit your own agenda yet you have no intrest in really engaging and debating with us 'Irish Trotskyites'.
We particualrly wanted to have a debate with 'Generation Yes' at our annual youth festival in Wicklow on the Lisbon treaty. Alas we did not hear back from anyone despite numerous calls.

I undertstand now from your post that you are a group that only exists on the internet and is manily online based? That is fair enough, as the internet obviously is a great way for raising issues and intrest in politics among young people.
If a public debate is inconvenient for your members then the Socialist Party will be happy to enter into maybe a live web chat debate, or an email debate that you can put up on your website similar to the one published in The Times last week between Joe and Pat Cox. Please feel free to pm me.



As for the video, really, slating the No side is not going to make people vote Yes and empty promises that Lisbon will create jobs also wont either.

On the Socialist party in particularly. Your video states:

They believe:
in permanent international revolution.......
Yes,I believe that the current economic and social problems are caused by capitalism. I believe that socialism will provide a better future- in which people's needs, not the profits of corporations, will be the purpose of production and distribution,leading to a more fulfilling society for all.
So? Why does this make the Socialist Party or its members, like me, any less worthy to discuss and debate the Lisbon Treaty and EU policy?

inalienable right to refuse collection.....
I presume this is a reference to our fight against the bin tax? Well then you are having a jibe at not only the Socialist party but the hundreds of Dublin households who refused to pay a bin tax,in whom which we actively supported. Personally I don't think its right or fair that ordinary hardworking family's who already are struggling have to stump up the vast bulk of the total tax bill with taxes on everything such as refuse collection or the impending water charges, while the rich and big business have benefited from countless tax loopholes and cuts..

the cult of Joe Higgins......well this is a bizzare one. As a member of the Socialist Party I certainly didn't sign up for any cult?! I go to GAA matches,have nights out with my friends,am a political activist but I certainly don't spend my time worshiping at the Holy altar of Joe Joe is a top bloke, both politically and personally, obviously other agree as he is now an MEP. A cult??Please, is this seriously the best you guys could do???

Really I must ask what all these silly scaremongering and discrediting of the Socialist Party have to do with Europe or indeed Lisbon??

Scofflaw

skelliser wrote: »

ok i think its safe to assume at this stage that generation yes is/was set up by members of ogra fianna fail

Er, no, at least certainly not on the evidence you've presented on this thread. Also, you seem not to be factoring in other relevant evidence like the fact that Generation Yes Director Andrew Byrne is a Green.

cordially,
Scofflaw

oscarBravo

skelliser wrote: »

ok i think its safe to assume at this stage that generation yes is/was set up by members of ogra fianna fail

OK, you just called another poster a liar. That's in breach of the charter. Prove conclusively that what you have said is true, or retract it, or get banned.

Wheely

skelliser wrote: »

ohh, so we are back tracking now! its a bit late now.
sorry the same post appears on ogra fianna fails official facebook page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=31179299043 and here www.ogra.ie

As was pointed out to you Gen Yes was set up by a Green.

Of course it's safe to assume for you that Gen YEs was set up by FF. Assume what you want.

But you know the old saying, to assume makes an ass out of u........

I forgotten the end.

skelliser

oscarBravo wrote: »

OK, you just called another poster a liar. That's in breach of the charter. Prove conclusively that what you have said is true, or retract it, or get banned.

sorry, where did i call someone a liar?
wheelie has stated that members of ogra fianna fail are apparently members of generation yes

Wheely wrote: »

God it's like spoon-feeding smoeone without a mouth.

Apparently YES!

WHAT
IS
YOUR
POINT?

and making an assumption is not the same as saying something is fact, so i have not broken the charter
Anyone who attended that table quiz could infer that it was a ogra event, no?

AuRevoir

..And they call this fighting back?? Generation Yes proving yet again, what lightweights they are. They can't sell the Treaty so they try to attack its opponents instead. Last throw of the dice for them maybe?

Scofflaw

skelliser wrote: »

sorry, where did i call someone a liar?
wheelie has stated that members of ogra fianna fail are members of generation yes
and making an assumption is not the same as saying something is fact, so i have not broken the charter
Anyone who attended that table quiz could infer that it was a ogra event, no?

Anyone who attended the Generation Yes table quiz could "infer" that it was an Ogra FF event because Ogra FF were going to meet in the same bar later? So when I go to the A&A drinks in the Duke on Friday, and there turns out to be a hen party there - and we talk to them - then what I actually did was go to the hen party?

No, really, you're not showing a link here. All you're showing is that you want to make a link, so that you can claim Generation Yes are "really" Fianna Fail. You're attempting to pull off a smear here, but you're doing it on such non-evidence that it's extremely visible.

regards,
Scofflaw

oscarBravo

skelliser wrote: »

sorry, where did i call someone a liar?
wheelie has stated that members of ogra fianna fail are members of generation yes
and making an assumption is not the same as saying something is fact, so i have not broken the charter
Anyone who attended that table quiz could infer that it was a ogra event, no?

OK, fair enough - you haven't actually come out and actually claimed anything. You've made sly insinuations, drawn tenuous connections, made assumptions, ignored replies that don't reinforce your prejudices, and refused to answer straight questions.

I'm drawing a line under it now. I've already told you, if you have something to say, say it. If you have nothing to contribute but sly innuendo, stop making yourself look bad by posting it.

If you want to post in this thread again, answer the straight questions I asked of you. If you don't want to answer straight questions, I can't think of a good reason to give you a platform to keep asking sneaky ones.

skelliser

but the posts on facebook are posted on ogra fianna fails page, i know its lose but imo is relevent.
also that phoenix article(i cant find it online) that was discussed on another thread

and i think oscarbravo should retract his post that i said someone was a liar

what exactly are you asking me oscarbravo re:straight questions v sneaky questions?

if i have an agenda its one of concern as to who has created and funded these organisations that have suddenly appeared
over the last few months, that is all.

oscarBravo

skelliser wrote: »

and i think oscarbravo should retract his post that i said someone was a liar

When you give direct answers to the direct questions I've asked you in this thread, I'll respond to this.

Agent J

*smashes head aganist keyboard*


.... Play the ball not the man ...

Can we get a a god damn constitutional amendment with that in it for all future referendums?

skelliser

oscarBravo wrote: »

When you give direct answers to the direct questions I've asked you in this thread, I'll respond to this.

what questions are you asking me then? also you never said who i called a liar.
i think your playing the man and not the ball

Wheely

skelliser wrote: »

b

if i have an agenda its one of concern as to who has created and funded these organisations that have suddenly appeared
over the last few months, that is all.

I have answered this time and again very clearly as has Storonius.

skelliser

ok you answered them but storonius still hasnt answered my question

oscarBravo

skelliser wrote: »

what questions are you asking me then?

I'm sorry, I assumed you knew how a scrollbar worked.

oscarBravo wrote: »

How do you define "linked"? If you mean that some OFF members are also GY members, I think that's already clear. Who cares? Do you feel that OFF members should be precluded from GY membership, and if so, why?

Or do you mean something else by "linked", and if so, what?

skelliser

ok, sorry i see it know.

by linked i mean that a post about generation yes event on a ogra facebook page, is a pretty lose link, i know, but it does raise questions as to there origin, also the poster of that link brendan hayes links to ff has been discussed on another thread.

also there is this post on the generation yes facebook, but wheelie has stated that the table quiz was not sanctioned by generation yes HQ yet they were allowed to attend this event albeit the next day.

"Ógra Fianna Fail will be launching their campaign for a Yes Vote in the Lisbon Treaty on the 29th of August. The Event will take place on Saturday 29th of August at 11am in the Clarion. Gen Yes members are welcome to attend the morning sessions which include keynote addresses by Minister for Foreign Affairs Michael Martin and Ireland South MEP Brian Crowley. Gen Yes members can attend until lunch. More info here http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=110463471251&ref=mf

Thanks to Brendan Hayes of Ógra Fianna Fáil for infroming us of the event and allowing Generatiuon Yes members to attend."

http://www.facebook.com/wall.php?id=103531834579

All i freely admit are pretty lose but are curious none the less?!

Wheely

skelliser wrote: »

also there is this post on the generation yes facebook

http://www.facebook.com/wall.php?id=103531834579

All i freely admit are pretty lose but are curious none the less

Pretty loose now are they? Where's the mindless indoctrinated ff autmoton gob****e ff ****-fest comments we've all come to associate with you. Also you've failed to row back on your funding allegations, respond to the fact that Gen YES was founded by a Green, your statement that it was safe to assume that Gen YES was/is set up by Ogra members and I've told you Storonius isn't an Ogra member.

I'm not arguing with you anymore it's blatantly a waste of my time.

skelliser

i have retracted my intial remarks if they offended, if you want il go back and edit it.
im also aware that a green set up generation yes.

Why was the table quiz not sanctioned by generation yes HQ, whilst members where allowed to attend the ogra event the very next morning?

marco_polo

skelliser wrote: »

i have retracted my intial remarks if they offended, if you want il go back and edit it.
im also aware that a green set up generation yes.

Why was the table quiz not sanctioned by generation yes HQ, whilst members where allowed to attend the ogra event the very next morning?

I presume it has somthing to do with it being a free country.

Wheely

skelliser wrote: »

i have retracted my intial remarks if they offended, if you want il go back and edit it.
im also aware that a green set up generation yes.

Why was the table quiz not sanctioned by generation yes HQ, whilst members where allowed to attend the ogra event the very next morning?

...............................:(

skelliser

you still havent answered my question?

K-9

skelliser wrote: »

you still havent answered my question?

There is only one answer to that and your OP that you will believe.

Stark

Half those people on the Facebook page I know as young Fine Gael members.

edanto

skelliser, by continuing to post on this thread you're actually harming the NO side. I winced when I read your posts that showed you were clueless about SIPO.

I thought to myself, how can someone claim to be reasonably well informed about something political (Lisbon), be asking questions about funding for political movements and NOT be aware of SIPO? Fair enough, I thought, maybe (s)he has just never heard of SIPO. Surely this person is diligent enough to google (and read around!!!) for about 10 minutes before replying. After all, this person has a point to make about Lisbon and wants us to take them seriously.

Your inability to do the most basic research on that point was glaring, and I suspect that your attitude to your Lisbon research was similar.

The fascination with trying (and failing) to make the point that OgraFF gave birth to and/or control Generation Yes is also a bit embarassing.

So really, I'm conscious that this post will come across as a bit arrogant, but I'm trying to do you a favour. Read up a bit more, and stop harming the NO side by posting.

Or else continue, because you're saving those of us that are campaigning for a YES vote a lot of effort.