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Generation Yes Fights Back

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    #92
    skelliser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    i voted yes btw, which iv mentioned already, so im sorry, i dont think im doing the no side a disservice.
    your attempt to smear me as a no campaigner has failed

    I was thrown by the acronym "sipo" which i never heard before, im well aware of the standards in public office and doublely aware of our politicans so called high standards!

    and you are being arrogant but its ok cause its something i become quite acustomed to from the yes campaigners


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    #93
    PHB
    Registered Users Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    Well its just that you're making absolutely no sense.

    Did you know that Generation Yes are hosting a table quiz in 4 Dame Lane on Thursday night?

    The Following Night, Sean Harley and RObert Linnane are playing a gig there. Does this in any way mean that they are the same group of people?

    Beyond that, if some Generation Yes members attended that gig, would you be screaming and asking what were the links between x and x?

    The answer is as obvious to the entire forum as it is to me.

    Some young FF'ers, from Orga FF, like Generation Yes.
    But wait.
    Some young FG'ers, from Orga FG, like Generation YEs.
    Some young Labour members, like Generation Yes.
    Some young Green members like Generation Yes.
    No young SF members like Generation Yes (although one was nice enough to donate 0.26 online because they knew it costs 0.27 to process a payment)

    Does this mean that Generation Yes are linked to any of those organisations? No. It just means that some people in there want to help out and get Lisbon passed, and while they are members of their political parties, they are also members of Generation Yes.

    If you've got a problem with that, I've got some bad news for you. I'm a member of Generation Yes, and I'm also a member of this forum. You are now a member of this forum. Therefore, you are linked with Generation Yes.

    If you think that last line is stupid, please explain to everyone else how your logic is any different.


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    #94
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    PHB wrote: »
    No young SF members like Generation Yes (although one was nice enough to donate 0.26 online because they knew it costs 0.27 to process a payment)

    :D

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #95
    skelliser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    lol!


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    #96
    netron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 225 ✭✭netron


    who are "generation yes"?


    to me it seems curiously similar to Common Purpose.

    do a google on that. "common purpose"


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    #97
    netron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 225 ✭✭netron


    PHB wrote: »
    If you've got a problem with that, I've got some bad news for you. I'm a member of Generation Yes, and I'm also a member of this forum. You are now a member of this forum. Therefore, you are linked with Generation Yes.

    If you think that last line is stupid, please explain to everyone else how your logic is any different.


    thank you - at least you are being honest. appreciate it.


    can you now tell us the following questions:

    1. what is your political affiliation

    2. what is your parents political affiliation

    3. are you a member of Common Purpose.


    straight answers please.


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    #98
    PHB
    Registered Users Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    netron wrote: »
    thank you - at least you are being honest. appreciate it.

    can you now tell us the following questions:

    1. what is your political affiliation

    2. what is your parents political affiliation

    3. are you a member of Common Purpose.

    straight answers please.

    1. I'm a member of the Labour Party. I joined when I went to college.

    2. My mother was a FF'er. My Dad alternates between the PDs/Greens.

    3. The First Time I've heard of Common purpose was when I read that post. Just looked at their website, looks kinda like a cult?

    Does that not fit into your conception of what Generation Yes is?
    Just off the top of my head, I can think of people who are in all the parties, and have parents who have supported different parties.
    It is a genuine cross-party movement

    [On a side note, subsequent to joining Labour I deeply read Marx and could talk to everyone for about two hours on how the Socialist Party has completely misunderstood Marx and what he was actually saying]


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    #99
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    netron wrote: »
    1. what is your political affiliation

    2. what is your parents political affiliation

    3. are you a member of Common Purpose.
    Whoah, timeout. Where's this coming from? You don't get to barge in here and start demanding other posters' parents' political affiliation.

    Also, what's with the Common Purpose thing? What's the link?


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    #100
    PHB
    Registered Users Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    oscarBravo I don't mind really to be honest, but you're the boss.


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    #101
    netron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 225 ✭✭netron


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Whoah, timeout. Where's this coming from? You don't get to barge in here and start demanding other posters' parents' political affiliation.

    Also, what's with the Common Purpose thing? What's the link?

    enjoy. make your own mind up....

    http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&source=hp&q=common+purpose&btnG=Google+Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=common+purpose&fp=452f329076e4ce1f


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    #102
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    netron wrote: »
    enjoy. make your own mind up....
    No; you brought it up. What's the link between Generation Yes and Common Purpose?


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    #103
    netron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 225 ✭✭netron


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Whoah, timeout. Where's this coming from? You don't get to barge in here and start demanding other posters' parents' political affiliation.


    my parents were Workers Party.

    my grandparents were IRA. i have nothing to be ashamed of.


    when you have "generation yes" types parading themselves, it is only logical to ask where they are coming from.


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    #104
    netron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 225 ✭✭netron


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    No; you brought it up. What's the link between Generation Yes and Common Purpose?

    read the google search...


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    #105
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    netron wrote: »
    read the google search...
    I did.

    The last time I'll ask you: what's the connection between GY and CP?

    Or is this yet another tiresome throw-****-at-the-wall-in-the-hope-that-some-of-it-might-stick tactic of innuendo, without actually having the courage to make an accusation and stand over it?

    In the immortal words of Jon Stewart: "I'm not saying your mother's a whore, I'm just asking where she gets her money, is all."

    If you have something to say, say it. If all you have to offer is innuendo, don't bother posting.


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    #106
    Cantab.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,444 ✭✭✭Cantab.


    Generation Yes is an umbrella organisation of Ogra FF.


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    #107
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Cantab. wrote: »
    Generation Yes is an umbrella organisation of Ogra FF.
    Yeah, someone else said that earlier. They didn't trouble to back it up either.

    If you have something to back it up, post it. If you don't, please stop posting crap.

    And don't mistake the above for a polite request.


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    #108
    patrickthomas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭patrickthomas


    I was talking to a friend today and she said that voting yes to the lisbon treaty would garuntee aboortion, prostution and the legalisation of drugs, is this true?


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    #109
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    patrickthomas wrote: »
    I was talking to a friend today and she said that voting yes to the lisbon treaty would garuntee aboortion, prostution and the legalisation of drugs, is this true?
    No. I bet you 50 quid she didn't explain how Lisbon would guarantee those things.


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    #110
    patrickthomas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭patrickthomas


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    No. I bet you 50 quid she didn't explain how Lisbon would guarantee those things.

    Nope, thats why I was asking..


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    #111
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    patrickthomas wrote: »
    Nope, thats why I was asking..
    Next time she comes up with something like that, ask her to cite the articles of the treaty that will have that effect.


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    #112
    patrickthomas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭patrickthomas


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Next time she comes up with something like that, ask her to cite the articles of the treaty that will have that effect.

    So what you mean is that it won't?


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    #113
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    patrickthomas wrote: »
    So what you mean is that it won't?
    No, it won't. It also won't ban open-coffin funerals, which is another rampant piece of nonsense I heard somewhere.


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    #114
    patrickthomas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭patrickthomas


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    No, it won't. It also won't ban open-coffin funerals, which is another rampant piece of nonsense I heard somewhere.

    Are you 100% sure that none of these things will be legalised?


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    #115
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,995 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    The Treaty is a public document. Download it, do a search for "funerals", "coffin" etc. I can guarantee you won't find anything in there.

    There's some stuff in the Treaty regarding Charter of fundamental human rights, but this simply gives legal backing to areas already covered under the EU's remit. These areas do not include abortion, drugs and prostitution. The right to life of the unborn child in particular, is something that is explicitly protected under the Irish constitution, and no EU treaty can override this.


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    #116
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    patrickthomas wrote: »
    Are you 100% sure that none of these things will be legalised?
    I am 100% sure that Lisbon will not guarantee the legalisation of those things.

    It's not possible to prove a negative - I can't point to an article in the treaty that says it doesn't have those effects - but if your friend thinks it will, ask her to explain how, with reference to the treaty text. She won't be able to.


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    #117
    patrickthomas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭patrickthomas


    Stark wrote: »
    The Treaty is a public document. Download it, do a search for "funerals", "coffin" etc. I can guarantee you won't find anything in there.

    There's some stuff in the Treaty regarding Charter of fundamental human rights, but this simply gives legal backing to areas already covered under the EU's remit. These areas do not include abortion, drugs and prostitution. The right to life of the unborn child in particular, is something that is explicitly protected under the Irish constitution, and no EU treaty can override this.

    Have you read the treaty, are those things 100% garunteed not to come into Ireland within a few years of the treaty?


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    #118
    Cantab.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,444 ✭✭✭Cantab.


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Yeah, someone else said that earlier. They didn't trouble to back it up either.

    If you have something to back it up, post it. If you don't, please stop posting crap.

    And don't mistake the above for a polite request.

    Hit a nerve did I? I know you don't like the fact that at least 3 members (who I know personally) are Ogra FF members.


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    #119
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Cantab. wrote: »
    Hit a nerve did I? I know you don't like the fact that at least 3 members (who I know personally) are Ogra FF members.
    I don't care whether GY members are OFF members, OFG members, Green Party members, IFA members, freemasons, astronauts or trained chimpanzees.

    What I do care about is people coming on here making wild-ass claims that are patently untrue, and then coming out with the sort of feeble crap you've just said as justification for it.

    I really shouldn't have to explain something as self-evidently true as this, but as a public service: overlap of membership does not mean that the two organisations are the same. I'm sure there are FF members in my local Chamber of Commerce; that doesn't make the Chamber an umbrella organisation for FF, or vice-versa.


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    #120
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,995 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    patrickthomas wrote: »
    Have you read the treaty, are those things 100% garunteed not to come into Ireland within a few years of the treaty?

    Section 31: Protocol on Article 40.3.3 of the Constitution of Ireland:

    http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:C:2004:310:0377:0377:EN:PDF

    "Nothing in the Treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe or in the Treaties or Acts modifying or
    supplementing it shall affect the application in Ireland of Article 40.3.3 of the Constitution of
    Ireland.
    "

    Article 40.3.3 of the Constitution:

    " The State acknowledges the right to life of the
    unborn and, with due regard to the equal right to life of
    the mother, guarantees in its laws to respect, and, as
    far as practicable, by its laws to defend and vindicate
    that right.
    This subsection shall not limit freedom to travel
    between the State and another state.
    This subsection shall not limit freedom to obtain or
    make available, in the State, subject to such conditions
    as may be laid down by law, information relating to
    services lawfully available in another state.
    "

    Constitution of Ireland: http://www.constitution.ie/reports/ConstitutionofIreland.pdf


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    #121
    patrickthomas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭patrickthomas


    Stark wrote: »
    Section 31: Protocol on Article 40.3.3 of the Constitution of Ireland:

    http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:C:2004:310:0377:0377:EN:PDF

    "Nothing in the Treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe or in the Treaties or Acts modifying or
    supplementing it shall affect the application in Ireland of Article 40.3.3 of the Constitution of
    Ireland.
    "

    Article 40.3.3 of the Constitution:

    " The State acknowledges the right to life of the
    unborn and, with due regard to the equal right to life of
    the mother, guarantees in its laws to respect, and, as
    far as practicable, by its laws to defend and vindicate
    that right.
    This subsection shall not limit freedom to travel
    between the State and another state.
    This subsection shall not limit freedom to obtain or
    make available, in the State, subject to such conditions
    as may be laid down by law, information relating to
    services lawfully available in another state.
    "

    Constitution of Ireland: http://www.constitution.ie/reports/ConstitutionofIreland.pdf

    Thanks, I voted no the last time and decided to make my mind up this time all over again and I keep getting cought between two sides that are saying opposite things and they both sound really well informed about them and one saying that there will be changes to abortion, drug laws and prostitution laws making them all legal and available and the other side saying exactly the opposite. im not a laywer, and these documents are not easy to argue about.


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