Generation Yes Fights Back

Scofflaw

Zuiderzee wrote: »

Oh come on Scoff mate, each blog is referenced!! The IIEA one is factual.
I think the most recent one was quite good actualy, even quoted Edward R Murrow.
G'Day from WA by the way.

What you've got, though, is something along the lines of "people interested in Europe tend to be found in European things - and often know each other!". What you're making of that is an allegation that bodies funded by the government/EU are being used to siphon funds to campaign groups.

It's a very serious allegation - which, if you recall, is why the Generation Yes thread you made it on got closed, since it's actionable (alleging a criminal act is a no-brainer libel opener).

However, I wasn't referring to that (because I'd forgotten about it, I'm sorry to say), but to you trying to tie the Treaty to Fianna Fail.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Zuiderzee

Well, at the moment it is an FF baby, and they look as if they may drop it again.

nesf

Zuiderzee wrote: »

Well, at the moment it is an FF baby, and they look as if they may drop it again.

Are you continuing to claim that Generation Yes is funded or controlled by FF?

Zuiderzee

No, the Lisbon treaty rerun is currently an FF baby - that may be dropped on its head, jesus, do I need to qualify every quip now????

I suppose some GenYes are FF, but not in the main as far as I know.

One of GenYes main founders, Andrew Byrne, is quite high up in the Greens!
He has since gone on to be employed by Brendan Halligan, ex Labour MEP who campaigned against us joining the EEC, and after that was employed by Pat Cox.

nesf

Zuiderzee wrote: »

No, the Lisbon treaty rerun is currently an FF baby - that may be dropped on its head, jesus, do I need to qualify every quip now????

Nope, just given the context of the last few posts it was difficult to ascertain your exact meaning.

Stark

patrickthomas wrote: »

I lost internet connection there, Climate change, sorry, not convinced about this at all, way to many loose ends there to be any way convincing, beginning to look like a scam. I remember the ice age, acid rain, the ozone layer and probably have forgotten some.

There's more to environmental issues than simply global warming. For example, recycling initiatives mean a reduced need for landfill sites meaning you have less need to worry about a dump popping up in your area. Use of unleaded instead of leaded petrol means the air around you is cleaner and safer to breathe. And like Scofflaw said, acid rain and the ozone layer are still issues but made far less urgent by virtue of the fact that we tackled them instead of ignoring them.

patrickthomas

Scofflaw wrote: »

Er, yes, and I have to point out that the 'ice age' (which I remember too) was a geological prediction, not a climatic one, while acid rain and the ozone hole were quite real and were addressed by relevant action. I won't argue climate change here, but the science is watertight.

The proportions are the other way round, which might explain how we managed to make quite such a mess. And the democratic deficit needs to be fixed. It needed to be fixed at Nice, but Nice was rushed to bring the Eastern European states on board before Putin gathered them back into Russian orbit.

The idea of the EU becoming a military power is frankly a pipe-dream. 27 countries running one army...

It's hardly idealism at this stage. Activist scepticism might be a better description. We need what's in Lisbon, not for idealism, but for entirely realistic reasons.

And a good night to you too.

cordially,
Scofflaw

The most pronounced decrease in ozone has been in the lower st

Ice age still a wrong prediction, ozone layer, seasonla cycles and they have not been studying them long enough to know what they are, largest depletion measured 2006, we are stil alive. the climate warming/change is seriously flawed. there is no such thing as a watertight theory.

The proportions i said of 80% of legistlation being from the eu is the other way round??? your own website states that 60% comes from the eu and it is flawed, recent count has it at 79% and rising???

eu army a pipe dream, 300,000 as said by Sarkozy officialy.
27 countries running an army? armies are led from the front Scofflaw! not from the rear.

Each one of those points you have got wrong, you say that you have read the treaty, but do you understand it? the rhetoric i am hearing coming from you is exactly the rhetoric i have been hearing coming from the people on top for years, they start telling you what to do, then bamboozle you with figures and when questioned either tell you to put up or shut up, or give you misinformation.

Why have you fallen for this well tried and failing formulae of leaders that not only do not understand the problems facing us but attempt to pretend that they do, tell us what to do and get annoyed and frustrated when questioned.

this is exactly the attitude i have seen coming from ff, fg,greens etc for years, don't you even realise that you are part of this?

Scofflaw

patrickthomas wrote: »

The most pronounced decrease in ozone has been in the lower st

Ice age still a wrong prediction, ozone layer, seasonla cycles and they have not been studying them long enough to know what they are, largest depletion measured 2006, we are stil alive. the climate warming/change is seriously flawed. there is no such thing as a watertight theory.

Are you a scientist? I am, and I've been following the scientific debates on these things for nearly 30 years now. If you're really going to deny that ozone depletion happened, or acid rain, it's clearly not worth arguing about it with you.

patrickthomas wrote: »

The proportions i said of 80% of legistlation being from the eu is the other way round??? your own website states that 60% comes from the eu and it is flawed, recent count has it at 79% and rising???

"My own website"? What are you referring to? I've done the fact-checking myself, and the figure is about 27% of Irish legislation.

patrickthomas wrote: »

eu army a pipe dream, 300,000 as said by Sarkozy officialy.
27 countries running an army? armies are led from the front Scofflaw! not from the rear.

They're directed from HQs, I think you'll find.

patrickthomas wrote: »

Each one of those points you have got wrong, you say that you have read the treaty, but do you understand it? the rhetoric i am hearing coming from you is exactly the rhetoric i have been hearing coming from the people on top for years, they start telling you what to do, then bamboozle you with figures and when questioned either tell you to put up or shut up, or give you misinformation.

Why have you fallen for this well tried and failing formulae of leaders that not only do not understand the problems facing us but attempt to pretend that they do, tell us what to do and get annoyed and frustrated when questioned.

this is exactly the attitude i have seen coming from ff, fg,greens etc for years, don't you even realise that you are part of this?

Are you claiming I get these things from somewhere else? From political parties?

offended,
Scofflaw

patrickthomas

Scofflaw wrote: »

"My own website"? What are you referring to? I've done the fact-checking myself, and the figure is about 27% of Irish legislation.

offended,
Scofflaw

2003: 81.55% of laws were of EU origin
2004: 77.09% of laws were of EU origin
2008: 77.96% of laws were of EU origin

Can you argue with this. Is the truth offensive?

ei.sdraob

patrickthomas wrote: »

2003: 81.55% of laws were of EU origin
2004: 77.09% of laws were of EU origin
2008: 77.96% of laws were of EU origin

Can you argue with this. Is the truth offensive?

you must be new here

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055639572&highlight=percentage+laws

marco_polo

patrickthomas wrote: »

2003: 81.55% of laws were of EU origin
2004: 77.09% of laws were of EU origin
2008: 77.96% of laws were of EU origin

Can you argue with this. Is the truth offensive?

Only if one accepts that thousands of regulations like

S.I. No. 11/2008 — European Communities (Phytosanitary Measures) (Brown Rot in Egypt) (Amendment) Regulations 2008

Can in any meaningful way be described as 'Irish Law'.

Funnily enough, campaigners in Iceland who do not want them to join the EU, are very keen to stress that such regulations as apply to the EEA are not national law.

Depend on ones agenda I suppose.

Scofflaw

marco_polo wrote: »

Only if one accepts that thousands of regulations like

S.I. No. 11/2008 — European Communities (Phytosanitary Measures) (Brown Rot in Egypt) (Amendment) Regulations 2008

Can in any meaningful way be described as 'Irish Law'.

Funnily enough, campaigners in Iceland who do not want them to join the EU, are very keen to stress that such regulations as apply to the EEA are not national law.

Depend on ones agenda I suppose.

I'm not sure why that's supposed to be "my website". Having had a look over the thread - on politics.ie, no less - you can see that the person doing the figures expressly starts off with the intention of proving the 80% figure, and, amazingly, manages to come to almost exactly that figure.

We've been over such claims here, and I don't find the idea of someone setting out to prove a chosen number right impressive, particularly when their whole 'thesis' relies on comparing Acts of the Oireachtas to localised grading regulations for fruit, while leaving out the entire body of such Irish regulations. One is comparing apples and oranges - or perhaps apples and Acts.

As to the offended, that was in relation to the last comment of your post. Kindly don't misquote me in such a way.

regards,
Scofflaw

Cantab.

nesf wrote: »

Are you continuing to claim that Generation Yes is funded or controlled by FF?

They are a FF front. Where else do you think they got all the money for Merrion Square offices and Arthur Cox lawyers from?

nesf

Cantab. wrote: »

They are a FF front. Where else do you think they got all the money for Merrion Square offices and Arthur Cox lawyers from?

As per the previous warning, banned for two weeks.

Edit: Due to abuse: ban lengthened to six months.

Edit2: Due to further abuse, ban lengthened to permanent and extended over the entire Politics category.

Sponge Bob

All the gYes people in Galway are FFers , FF dare not campaign under their own banner and gYesy is a flag of convenience for them .

Funnily enough FF have just dragged out all the old FF Pat the Cope EU Election posters from June . They have stuck a "Vote Yes" over the "Number 1" Field and rehung them all over Galway West this w/e .

nesf

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Funnily enough FF have just dragged out all the old FF Pat the Cope EU Election posters from June . They have stuck a "Vote Yes" over the "Number 1" Field and rehung them all over Galway West this w/e .

That's not FF, that's Pat the Cope's cumann using any excuse to remind the population of Galway West what he looks like. We saw the same crap from FF, FG and Labour last time down here with their large posters of their MEP candidates with small Vote yes logos at the bottom.

PomBear

Going into the problem of problems in NI was under the belt remarks and I expected better. We can go on about the problems of all Irish political parties all day but lets start talking real politics of the Lisbon Treaty and lets stop Yes and No sides telling the general public lies

edanto

I saw some GY boys n girls on Grafton St the other day and they were only talking to people about Lisbon... didn't mention which political party they were part of.

nesf

Sponge Bob wrote: »

FF know well that if anybody shows up on a doorstep in the next 3 weeks and admitting they are from FF ....they will be shredded , spat upon and then out .

Look at the GYes website , contacts on top

www.generationyes.ie

This is a crude hagiography of the one true leader by the Galway contact listed at the top of that website.

http://us.bebo.com/BlogView.jsp?MemberId=6054001917&BlogId=6205288755

Lest any muppet show up to say 'wrong Cillian' please read

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=115063429292

Ideally Before you open your mouth . Not that such a consideration would ever stop a Galway FF hack.

Huh? Is he some prominent Ográ member in Galway or something?

Bear in mind also that blanket statements like "All GenYes people in Galway are FFers" aren't welcome here. Yes plenty of Galways FF people seem to be involved but unless you can show that every one of them is a FFer then keep such comments to yourself.

PopeBuckfastXVI

Sponge Bob wrote: »

FF know well that if anybody shows up on a doorstep in the next 3 weeks and admitting they are from FF ....they will be shredded , spat upon and then out .

Look at the GYes website , contacts on top

www.generationyes.ie

This is a crude hagiography of the one true leader by the Galway contact listed at the top of that website.

http://us.bebo.com/BlogView.jsp?MemberId=6054001917&BlogId=6205288755

Lest any muppet show up to say 'wrong Cillian' please read

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=115063429292

Ideally Before you open your mouth . Not that such a consideration would ever stop a Galway FF hack.

You've proved that a GY member in Galway is also a member of FF possibly.

Well done.

What's your point?

Rb

Anyone I know involved in Generation Yes is also a FF member/supporter.

When asked to give one decent reason to vote yes, the only answer I got was "There's no reason not to" coupled with a load of bollocks about how the EU has been good to us and that we owe it to them.

Very quick to disguise which party they're in. Scumbags at best.

Sponge Bob

I would say Highly Disingenous ...rather than 'scumbags'

But people should know who they really are dealing with and people have a lot of 'issues' with FF nowadays

PopeBuckfastXVI

Rb wrote: »

Anyone I know involved in Generation Yes is also a FF member/supporter.

When asked to give one decent reason to vote yes, the only answer I got was "There's no reason not to" coupled with a load of bollocks about how the EU has been good to us and that we owe it to them.

Very quick to disguise which party they're in. Scumbags at best.

Are GY FF?

The_Minister

Sigh.

I will say this once.

WE BELONG = FIANNA FAIL

That is the FF front.
Generation Yes is led by a Green, and most of the staff are a mix of parties, mostly FG.

Generation Yes is not a FF front.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

FF know well that if anybody shows up on a doorstep in the next 3 weeks and admitting they are from FF ....they will be shredded , spat upon and then out .

Look at the GYes website , contacts on top

www.generationyes.ie

This is a crude hagiography of the one true leader by the Galway contact listed at the top of that website.

http://us.bebo.com/BlogView.jsp?MemberId=6054001917&BlogId=6205288755

Lest any muppet show up to say 'wrong Cillian' please read

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=115063429292

Ideally Before you open your mouth . Not that such a consideration would ever stop a Galway FF hack.

I know Cillian personally, and he is not in FF.

He does not like FF.

One could say he hates FF if one wanted to.

EDIT: I just followed your links to the Cillian that posted that - completely the wrong Cillian.

Rb

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

Are GY FF?

I haven't an adjective bad enough to accurately describe what or who exactly they are

NotoriousFin

Sponge Bob wrote: »

FF know well that if anybody shows up on a doorstep in the next 3 weeks and admitting they are from FF ....they will be shredded , spat upon and then out .

Look at the GYes website , contacts on top

www.generationyes.ie

This is a crude hagiography of the one true leader by the Galway contact listed at the top of that website.

http://us.bebo.com/BlogView.jsp?MemberId=6054001917&BlogId=6205288755

Lest any muppet show up to say 'wrong Cillian' please read

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=115063429292

Ideally Before you open your mouth . Not that such a consideration would ever stop a Galway FF hack.

I can confirm to you that I'm not a member of Fianna Fáil or never have I been.

Yours,

Cillian

NotoriousFin

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

Are GY FF?

No GenYes, are 100% independent. In fact I only have met a handful of FF supporters in the organisation myself. Many people such as myself use it as a vessle to canvass for Lisbon seeing as we're not members of parties.

NotoriousFin

The_Minister wrote: »

Sigh.

I will say this once.

WE BELONG = FIANNA FAIL

That is the FF front.
Generation Yes is led by a Green, and most of the staff are a mix of parties, mostly FG.

Generation Yes is not a FF front.



I know Cillian personally, and he is not in FF.

He does not like FF.

One could say he hates FF if one wanted to.

EDIT: I just followed your links to the Cillian that posted that - completely the wrong Cillian.

Thank you Stephen.

nesf

Sponge Bob's post has been deleted, but the refutations of it have been left so there's public record.

The matter is settled at that.

evercloserunion

skelliser wrote: »

iv said already i dont care about coir, yet ye seem to continue to mention them

im interested in finding out who these yes groups are and how much of our taxes/eu grants
are funding them

whats is sipo?
who are the citizens and business they recieve money from?

FFS, you come in here demanding eveyone answers your questions about the funding of certain campaign groups and you don't even know who SIPO are?

SIPO is the Standards in Public Office Commission. Readup about them before you go throwing around allegations of dodgy funding.