LISBON - What way will Clare vote this time?

meglome

theasylumkey wrote: »

Ah well i will refer you to this post i made over on another thread regarding continued participation on this forum from myself.......

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62322817&postcount=55

That's another post with some of your opinions which doesn't seem to have anything to do with the actual treaty. I'm confused.

Stuacach wrote: »

I expcet Clare to vote NO. Finanacial muscle unquestionably allows control of the flow of information and funds anonymous political lobbying, as we can fully appreciate in this country.
Corporate powers, rather than "ordinary" citizens, are therefore using their financial resources to back the "YES" campaign, because the more centralised the power becomes in Europe, the smaller the number of institutions it will be necesary to influence so as to shape the EU regulations and laws.
Voting "NO" will at least allow the other "ordinary" Europeans to have their say on the direction the EU is being pulled.

I dunno, I suppose you could read the treaty and then you'd realise there's nothing in it that allows for what you believe. Isn't it strange that the EU brought in 80% of our workers rights legislation, almost seems like they are not controlled by business.

drunken_munky52 wrote: »

The European Council on Foreign Relations (ECFR) is a pan-European think tank which conducts research and promotes informed debate across Europe on the development of coherent and effective European values-based foreign policy.

It was launched by fifty prominent Europeans in October 2007. ECFR's founding members include former European prime ministers, parliamentarians, business leaders, public intellectuals, and activists, all committed to increasing the EU's role on the world stage. The initiative is headed by Executive Director Mark Leonard, and has offices in five European capitals - Berlin, London, Madrid, Paris, and Sofia.

The organisation is supported by billionaire and philanthropist George Soros, along with Sigrid Rausing, the Spanish foundation FRIDE, the Italian UniCredit Group, and the Bulgarian Communitas Foundation. ECFR is not associated with or linked to the American Council on Foreign Relations.

ECFR was named the world's "Best New Think Tank in the last five years" by Foreign Policy magazine in its January/February 2009 edition.

drunken_munky52 wrote: »

It is an official cover for the catering of politicians to meet with powerful business men - AKA Lobbying

The name "European Council on Foreign Relations" really means, a council which sway government policy.

This council is totally un-accountable, and the decisions that are made by political leaders in these meetings are spun for presenting to the public.

Nice of you to quote your own post as backup for your point. As I said above the EU have brought in 80% of our workers rights legislation, they were the ones that pushed our government into paying woman the same as men. The Lisbon treaty brings in the Charter of Fundamental Rights and gives the right to Union representation. These lobby groups don't seem to be doing a very good job.

Will some of you actually read what's in the treaty before posting things that have nothing to do with the treaty or are not in the treaty.

Is mise le key

meglome wrote: »

That's another post with some of your opinions which doesn't seem to have anything to do with the actual treaty. I'm confused.

If you follow this thread to the final post you wont be confused my good friend.......Correct it has nothing to do with the treaty & if you are not interested based on that OK but it will demonstrate how my conclusions have been come to off the subject of the treaty.

Begin at post 56 & follow to last post.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055687343&page=4

meglome

theasylumkey wrote: »

If you follow this thread to the final post you wont be confused my good friend.......Correct it has nothing to do with the treaty & if you are not interested based on that OK but it will demonstrate how my conclusions have been come to off the subject of the treaty.

Begin at post 56 & follow to last post.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055687343&page=4

I've looked at the posts and I have no idea what you're trying to point out. Not a clue.

Dr Kamikazi

I say vote Yes!
Give power to a bunch of greedy, corrupt criminals in Europe, who at least have a proven trackrecord of running a country.
I'm talking healthcare, roads, public transport, education, etc...
Rather than leave power with a bunch of greedy, corrupt criminals who are an absolute waste of space, close down A&E's, can't even build a tunnel under Dublin that's big enough for trucks or leakproof, can't build a public transport system that's useful to anyone but a handful of people, can't care for the elderly without killing them, has no strategy on childcare, can't even link a single airport up to a railsystem, utilised public service as a posh way for people to be on the dole in the 80's and is still fighting the overhang, and as soon as they go near anything to do with computers it's a multi million Euro disaster.
I could fill several pages with this rant, but there you go...
Also, the fact that some of these tin foil hat wearing anti lisbon nutters are suggesting that Europe will eat our babies, grind up our elderly and sell them to the zoo for meat, are you guys for f*cking real?
tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat

Is mise le key

meglome wrote: »

I've looked at the posts and I have no idea what you're trying to point out. Not a clue.

I just cannot accept that a man who posted this below only a few days ago cannot decipher the point of a few posts from someone 'like me'.

meglome wrote: »

You or anyone with a fairly basic grasp of English can read the Lisbon treaty, it won't be interesting but it is doable.

And amazingly I was able to read it, me, one of the general population.

You obviously want me to already spell out what i have in the aforementioned posts warranting another Yellow or Red card & a ban.
This shows the caliber of you not to be a straight person.....which you have already proven more than once to be the case.

I quote again Malcolm X;

"I have more respect for a man who says what he means & means what he says even if he is wrong, than one that tells me he is an angel but aint nothing but the devil"

drunken_munky52

meglome wrote: »

These lobby groups don't seem to be doing a very good job.

QUOTE]

The European Council on Foreign Relations is no more a council than an imaginary council on cabbage and spuds.

It is a sleezy get together composed of billionaires and politicians. The idea is that the politicians get their ideas from these people on what sort of policy to create and enforce.

Of course, with a billionaire's agenda pulling the politicians strings, normal people's needs are rarely in their top ten to do list.

Stuacach

meglome wrote: »

That's another post with some of your opinions which doesn't seem to have anything to do with the actual treaty. I'm confused.

The Lisbon Treaty (Constitution) is an evolving process, evolving away from the founding principles of the EEC, where the principle of subsidiarity was a valued concept.
Where does the figure of 80% come from - counting words?
The treaty is written in Bertie Ahernisms, i.e. it can be interpreted in any number of ways - a pig in a poke. Who do you think will be in a position to dictate its interpretation? Financial clout, as usual, will be a most significant factor.
Remember that a lot of the supposedly benign EU regulations have caused many of the less rich businessmen to close down because of the expense of implementing over zealous measures which are supposedly aimed at necessary improvements, e.g. relating to hygiene and environemntal issues. This generates more business/ income for the established larger opreators.


I dunno, I suppose you could read the treaty and then you'd realise there's nothing in it that allows for what you believe. Isn't it strange that the EU brought in 80% of our workers rights legislation, almost seems like they are not controlled by business.





Nice of you to quote your own post as backup for your point. As I said above the EU have brought in 80% of our workers rights legislation, they were the ones that pushed our government into paying woman the same as men. The Lisbon treaty brings in the Charter of Fundamental Rights and gives the right to Union representation. These lobby groups don't seem to be doing a very good job.

Will some of you actually read what's in the treaty before posting things that have nothing to do with the treaty or are not in the treaty.

u

Hawk Wing

I'll be voting no

Stuacach

Stuacach wrote: »

u

The Lisbon Treaty (Constitution) is an evovling process, evolving away from the founding principles of the EEC, where the principle of subsidiarity was a valued concept.

Where does the figure of 80% of workers rights come from - counting of words? Many of the so-called benign EU regulations have had the effect of closing moderate well run local operations, e.g. in the animal and food processing areas, by introducing very costly, over-the-top measures which could not be borne by persons of reasonable income. This obviously generates more business/ income for the already well established large operators who will gladly welcome such measures, and leaves more persons on the dole.
The treaty is written in BertieAhernisms, i.e. it can be interpreted in any number of ways - it is a pig in a poke. The purpose of this obfuscation was acknowledged by Sarkozy as the means of getting it past the post.

Who will be in a position to dictate its interpretation? Financial clout will, as usual, be a most significant factor.

meglome

Stuacach wrote: »

The Lisbon Treaty (Constitution) is an evovling process, evolving away from the founding principles of the EEC, where the principle of subsidiarity was a valued concept.

Where does the figure of 80% of workers rights come from - counting of words? Many of the so-called benign EU regulations have had the effect of closing moderate well run local operations, e.g. in the animal and food processing areas, by introducing very costly, over-the-top measures which could not be borne by persons of reasonable income. This obviously generates more business/ income for the already well established large operators who will gladly welcome such measures, and leaves more persons on the dole.
The treaty is written in BertieAhernisms, i.e. it can be interpreted in any number of ways - it is a pig in a poke. The purpose of this obfuscation was acknowledged by Sarkozy as the means of getting it past the post.

Who will be in a position to dictate its interpretation? Financial clout will, as usual, be a most significant factor.

My my another new sign-up advocating a No vote, who would have thunk it.

Alliance for Europe
American Chamber of Commerce
Barnado's
Concern(NGO)
Construction Industry Federation (CIF)
Consumer Electronic Distributors Association (CEDA)
Cork Chamber of Commerce
Cork City Business Association
Dublin Chamber of Commerce
Dublin City Business Association
Engineers Ireland
Fashion & Footwear Federation
Financial Services Ireland
Fine Gael
Galway City Business Association
IBEC
ICMSA
ICT Ireland
ICTU
INO
Institute of Chartered Accountants in Ireland
Institute of Professional Auctioneers and Valuers
Irish Banking Federation
Irish Congress of Trade Unions
Irish Consultative Committee of Accountancy Bodies
Irish Dairy Industry Association (IDIA)
Irish Exporters Association (IEA)
Irish Farmers Association
Irish Fish Producers’ Organisation
Irish Franchise Association
Irish Hardware & Building Materials Association
Irish Hotels Federation (IHF)
Irish Medical Devices Association (IMDA)
Irish Sheep and Cattle Farmers Association
Irish Software Association (ISA)
Irish Taxation Institute
Irish Tourist Industry Confederation (ITIC)
Irish Travel Agents Association (ITAA)
Killybegs Fishermen’s Organisation
Labour
Limerick Chamber of Commerce
Limerick City Business Association
Network Dublin
North Dublin Chamber of Commerce
Pharmachemical Ireland
Progressive Democrats
Retail Ireland
SIPTU
Small Firms Association (SFA)
Society of Irish Motor Industry (SIMI)
South Dublin Chamber
Telecoms and Internet Federation (TIF)
Trocaire
Waterford Chamber of Commerce

So we have political party's, employers groups, Unions, Farmers groups, Fisherman's groups etc etc etc... all looking for a Yes vote. On the other side we have a majority of fascists, communists and nut cases (I'm not including the many genuinely concerned No voters I've met on boards.ie, just the liars)

Don't be lied to people. If you hate the government, as I do, then the next general election is the time to get them out.

Dr Kamikazi

Jim Corr advocates a No vote.
Thought you where joking when I posted tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat, etc...?
The advocates on the No side are made up of a bunch of cranks, lunatics, meddlers and people with dark, mysterious and unexplained motives and financial backing.
A vote for Yes is a vote for sanity, too much lies and hysteria has been peddled by the No side.
The rest of Europe won't thank us when the cute hoores of Ireland will hold them to ransom because we want 50 squillion, final say and veto on everything, all jobs transferred to Ireland and the rest of Europe to become our bitches.
Greed and stupidity where indeed not the founding principle of Europe, but one of pulling together, mucking in and cooperating, clearly not very popular things here, where the only ethos is "I'm alright, don't fancy yours much, no get out of my way, I'm going shopping"

drunken_munky52

meglome wrote: »

So we have political party's, employers groups, Unions, Farmers groups, Fisherman's groups etc etc etc... all looking for a Yes vote.

Yes and we have political party's, employers groups, Unions, Farmers groups, Fisherman's groups etc etc etc... all looking for a No vote

meglome wrote: »

On the other side we have a majority of fascists, communists and nut cases (I'm not including the many genuinely concerned No voters I've met on boards.ie, just the liars)

Here you just resort to insulting, which is exactly the type of thick responses I get from Moran Yes siders.. they dont want to listen, they only want to believe the LIES been shoved in their faces everyday... just self obsessed left overs of the celtic tiger trying their hardest to cling onto their materialistic fairytale lives.

meglome wrote: »

Don't be lied to people. If you hate the government, as I do, then the next general election is the time to get them out.

Having a new government wont change the fact that the Irish people in 2009 made a mistake by voting yes.

Dr Kamikazi

drunken_munky52 wrote: »

Here you just resort to insulting, which is exactly the type of thick responses I get from Moran Yes siders.. they dont want to listen, they only want to believe the LIES been shoved in their faces everyday... just self obsessed left overs of the celtic tiger trying their hardest to cling onto their materialistic fairytale lives.

Well, in fairness the No campaigners pretty much try to convince us with their posters that if we vote Yes the EU will arrive in tanks the next day to occupy Ireland, force us to abort all our babies, will euthanise all our old people and sell them to the zoo as meat.
The rest of us will be conscripted into the new EU super army so we can invade the rest of the world.
All this for a minimum wage of 50 cent a month.

Quite frankly the No side has discredited itself by spouting this kind of paranoid, deranged, drivel.
And, quite frankly, anyone who says "I STAND BEHIND THESE LIES" should not be taken seriously and should, by law, be ridiculed and laughed at.
I'm sure the Yes side is also made up of liars and chancers, but not quite the same calibre of nutcase, paranoid, delusional megalomaniacs as the No campaign.
That to me, makes then not credible, untrustworthy and suspect.

Stuacach

I am a member of one of the organisations listed. The opinion which is expressed does not repersent my views nor that of the majority of the members of my acquaintance, who are definitely against the treaty. You may believe the opinions of the few who dictate press releases if you wish. It's not an authentic argument however.

Turtwig

Seeing as we've only got 50 minutes left of campaigning
VOTE YES

meglome

drunken_munky52 wrote: »

Yes and we have political party's, employers groups, Unions, Farmers groups, Fisherman's groups etc etc etc... all looking for a No vote

List them.

drunken_munky52 wrote: »

Here you just resort to insulting, which is exactly the type of thick responses I get from Moran Yes siders.. they dont want to listen, they only want to believe the LIES been shoved in their faces everyday... just self obsessed left overs of the celtic tiger trying their hardest to cling onto their materialistic fairytale lives.

Well I suppose it did sound insulting, however it's also true. You know criticising someone for potentially being insulting by insulting them really doesn't help your argument.

Stuacach wrote: »

I am a member of one of the organisations listed. The opinion which is expressed does not repersent my views nor that of the majority of the members of my acquaintance, who are definitely against the treaty. You may believe the opinions of the few who dictate press releases if you wish. It's not an authentic argument however.

I heard that God was insisting we all vote Yes. I'm sure that's true, honestly.

Stuacach

Malty_T wrote: »

Seeing as we've only got 50 minutes left of campaigning
VOTE YES

Vote NO or the precedent set my the browbeating (to put it mildly) we will have been given will set the scene for future situations where any attempt by us as a nation to disagree with the Union will not be tolerated . Our politicians will meekly toe the line. Its not in our interests to vote yes. VOTE NO.

drunken_munky52

Fcuk it!

Vote NO :cool:

Two fingers to EU elite
Two fingers to arms contractors
Two fingers to profit before people
Two fingers to neo liberals at the top of the pyramid scheme
Two fingers to the government
Two fingers to the political instituations
Two fingers to obvious corruption in all its forms
(of course give them the FCUK YOU two fingers, not the victory type) :cool:

We the Irish may be small, but we can stand up to these useless pricks who we elect to rule us for their own self interests.

Problems are not solved by words on paper
Problems are not solved by politicians vague notions
Problems are not solved by laws or rules

Problems are solved with mathematics and science
Problems are solved with caring from the bottom up, not the other way around
Problems are solved because its in human nature to solve problems, becuase we see a challange and we go for it.

Problems are not going to be solved by Lisbon Treaty or the EU

Problems are going to be solved by free thinking individuals who openly share their knowledge with one another to better humanity.

Vote no :cool: and show others how confident we are in addressing the problems with a system based on equality, sustainability and abundance if we can amass a movement capable of flushing capitalism and communism away.

Vote yes :eek:, roll over on your back like a dog and beg for others to solve the problems for you with no confidence whatsoever in your own abilities to address your problems.

drunken_munky52

meglome wrote: »

List them.

What is the point? I already know what your response would be.

Turtwig

drunken_munky52 wrote: »

What is the point? I already know what your response would be.

Discussions over people!

Make sure now to exercise your right to vote

Stuacach

meglome wrote: »

List them.



Well I suppose it did sound insulting, however it's also true. You know criticising someone for potentially being insulting by insulting them really doesn't help your argument.



I heard that God was insisting we all vote Yes. I'm sure that's true, honestly.

Hmmmm. It might be a good idea if you made a list of the various voices you hear. Do you ever find that the voices don't make sense? If you have any news from Elvis or John Lennon pleae sure to let us know. How silly of me, of course, they told you to vote yes.

meglome

drunken_munky52 wrote: »

What is the point? I already know what your response would be.

Well my response would be shock that you actually answered the question.

Stuacach wrote: »

Hmmmm. It might be a good idea if you made a list of the various voices you hear. Do you ever find that the voices don't make sense? If you have any news from Elvis or John Lennon pleae sure to let us know. How silly of me, of course, they told you to vote yes.

Well I suppose I've only been insulted several times by No people, which is better than the hundreds of times I've seen them make stuff up.

Malty_T wrote: »

Discussions over people!

Make sure now to exercise your right to vote

I just hope we don't vote no to the treaty again for reasons that have nothing to do with the treaty (again). How are the EU supposed to address our concerns when they are mostly not there in the first place.

Run_to_da_hills

News just in that the Vatican is calling for an all out NO vote among st Catholics. There is discontent among the Church that the EU has totally refused to recognize Europe's Christian heritage in the text of the Lisbon Treaty.

The EU has also upset the Church in the past by ruling abortion provision should be treated as a "medical service" no different from any other treatment.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/6251741/Vatican-issues-Lisbon-Treaty-warning-to-Irish-voters.html

Personally If I was anyway Catholic I do what the Vatican said and would vote NO.

Although I am no Catholic I have a number of serious issues with the EU. Firstly I believe the EU is of the Devil, it is satanic to the core with its revived ancient Roman Empire symbolism and current and past architecture. I also believe it will be orchistrating the "Mark of the Beast" along with other Global superpowers. Already it has been promoted for "Virus detection" :rolleyes:

meglome

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

News just in that the Vatican is calling for an all out NO vote among st Catholics. There is discontent among the Church that the EU has totally refused to recognize Europe's Christian heritage in the text of the Lisbon Treaty.

The EU has also upset the Church in the past by ruling abortion provision should be treated as a "medical service" no different from any other treatment.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/6251741/Vatican-issues-Lisbon-Treaty-warning-to-Irish-voters.html

Personally If I was anyway Catholic I do what the Vatican said and would vote NO.

Although I am no Catholic my self and have a number of issues with It I personally believe the EU is of the Devil, it is satanic to the core with its revived ancient Roman Empire symbolism and current and past architecture.

It's funny but the article doesn't say that at all. Maybe you can show me the bit that says "the Vatican is calling for an all out NO vote amongst Catholics"?

It also says...

Noel Treanor, the Bishop of Down and Connor, last week lined up with mainstream political parties to tell churchgoers that they could vote for the Lisbon Treaty "without reserve and in good conscience".

Does it bother you that you want to get your way or push your agenda without any regard for the facts?

Run_to_da_hills

meglome wrote: »

It's funny but the article doesn't say that at all. Maybe you can show me the bit that says "the Vatican is calling for an all out NO vote amongst Catholics"?

It also says...

Headline says it. Good enough

Noel Treanor, the Bishop of Down and Connor, last week lined up with mainstream political parties to tell churchgoers that they could vote for the Lisbon Treaty "without reserve and in good conscience"....

What authority do they have to come out with that statement, they are way down the ranks of the Hierachy.

meglome

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Headline says it. Good enough

The title most definitely doesn't say that. From the article you posted.

Vatican issues Lisbon Treaty warning to Irish voters

...

"Individual European countries have their own identity. The EU prescribes its laws or views to them and they do not have to fit with their traditions and history. Some countries are logically resisting this – for example, Ireland," said Cardinal Bertone.

"If Europe recognised homosexual couples as equal to marriage, for example, it would go against its own history. And it would be right to stand against it. The Church wants to encourage states in this."

Coir, a Catholic group that has claimed that religious faith and Ireland's anti-abortion laws are under threat from the EU, welcomed the comments.

So he seems to be having a pop at gay marriage. And the nutbags that are Cóir fully agree.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

What authority do they have to come out with that statement, they are way down the ranks of the Hierachy.

Catholic Church in preaching to Catholics shocker.

Is mise le key

Dr Kamikazi wrote: »

I could fill several pages with this rant, but there you go...
Also, the fact that some of these tin foil hat wearing anti lisbon nutters are suggesting that Europe will eat our babies, grind up our elderly and sell them to the zoo for meat, are you guys for f*cking real?
tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin foil hat tin

meglome wrote: »

So we have political party's, employers groups, Unions, Farmers groups, Fisherman's groups etc etc etc... all looking for a Yes vote. On the other side we have a majority of fascists, communists and nut cases

meglome wrote: »

And the nutbags that are Cóir fully agree.

More & more insults & character assasination from the Yes side & is there a whisper of a Yellow or Red card as has been so quickly pulled out in the past when a simple "Thanks" posted from me got a Red.........the entire one sidedness is obscenly plain to quote stuacach who hit the nail on the head....

Stuacach

You may believe the opinions of the few who dictate press releases if you wish.

As This is what i get in my inbox for posting "thanks"

Oscarbravo (Mod)

If you can't post in a civilised manner, don't post. Read the charter.

meglome

theasylumkey wrote: »

More & more insults & character assasination from the Yes side & is there a whisper of a Yellow or Red card as has been so quickly pulled out in the past when a simple "Thanks" posted from me got a Red.........the entire one sidedness is obscenly plain to quote stuacach who hit the nail on the head....

Yes everyone is biased against the No campaign or maybe I dunno, they're wrong.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that some No voters have don't have valid concerns. I am saying the No campaign is full of liars, fascists, communists and nutcases. And yes Cóir are nutbags, nutbags who have been found associating with German fascists in the past, lovely people I'm sure.

drunken_munky52

meglome wrote: »

Yes everyone is biased against the No campaign or maybe I dunno, they're wrong.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that some No voters have don't have valid concerns. I am saying the No campaign is full of liars, fascists, communists and nutcases. And yes Cóir are nutbags, nutbags who have been found associating with German fascists in the past, lovely people I'm sure.

BORRRRRRRRRRRRING

Anyone else had enough of this wind bag's repititive comments? Thank fcuk its nearly all over!

Turtwig

Just after voting...:)