LISBON - What way will Clare vote this time?

Turtwig

fergusman wrote: »

Hey Drinken munky you do realise that your sig is totally inaccurate?

Saorstat Eireann (Irish Free State) ended in 1948 when we declared a Republic. Youre 60 years too late.

I was fishing for you fergusman and you know what... you are an easy catch!

Putting little bait like that in, its easy to make you surface from time to time.

When it comes to the big issues, you simply ignore my quotes to your post for a few days until the posts and quotes are far back enough for people to forget about what was said.

I eagerly await your next post in a few days time when todays little episode is a distant memory... talk to you then!

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*Speechless*

I'm sorry I can't really say anything to that but ....

drunken_munky52

Vote Yes to "Jobs" (losses)

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1007/condron.html

Eire Saor
1922 - 2009
R.I.P.

Turtwig

drunken_munky52 wrote: »

Vote Yes to "Jobs" (losses)

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1007/condron.html

Eire Saor
1922 - 2009
R.I.P.

Not worried one bit about this because when the EDA get's up an running there will be a job for everyone! YAYs!:rolleyes:

Gregor Samsa

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Back to your conspiracy'sthe facts

You can't just quote a chunk from the National Platform website and claim it's a fact. :rolleyes:

Here's a counter argument:

Lisbon, in amending article 48 of the Treaty on European Union, does expand the number of ways in which the European treaties can be amended from one to four. But, contrary to the view widely asserted by No campaigners, each preserves the right of member states, and individual national parliaments, to veto change.

[...]

In Ireland’s case that may involve a referendum if the change is more than what the courts define as “necessitated by membership” or within the essential scope and objectives of the union. In the Crotty case the Supreme Court distinguished between changes adding new “competences” – new areas in which the EU can act – for which a referendum is required, and changes to procedures within competences, such as voting rules, where a Dáil vote is sufficient to ratify a change. That allows Ireland, for example, to ratify the accession of new member states without referendums.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0928/1224255367818.html

Is mise le key

770 jobs to go in aer lingus......

But hang on a minute we voted YES?

Ah everything will be grand so dont worry about it the EU will bail out aer lingus (not):D

drunken_munky52

theasylumkey wrote: »

770 jobs to go in aer lingus......

But hang on a minute we voted YES?

Ah everything will be grand so dont worry about it the EU will bail out aer lingus (not):D

O'Brian's sandwich bars gone into liquidation... 600 odd jobs to go...
GE Money in Shannon... 70 jobs to go
Techoman... jobs to go
Yes to job cuts, thats the name of the game!

Who paid off these crowds off to keep their mouths shut until after the referendum?

The funniest sign I saw over the campaign was the Labour yes sign with the graduation hat and the yellow builder's hat... just imagined a lovely stuffed breakfast roll next to it... EMM YUM THE GOOD OLD DAYS.

Yes to: BREAKFAST ROLLS

meglome

drunken_munky52 wrote: »

O'Brian's sandwich bars gone into liquidation... 600 odd jobs to go...
GE Money in Shannon... 70 jobs to go
Techoman... jobs to go
Yes to job cuts, thats the name of the game!

Who paid off these crowds off to keep their mouths shut until after the referendum?

The funniest sign I saw over the campaign was the Labour yes sign with the graduation hat and the yellow builder's hat... just imagined a lovely stuffed breakfast roll next to it... EMM YUM THE GOOD OLD DAYS.

Yes to: BREAKFAST ROLLS

Yup that damn recession and incompetent government that the Lisbon treaty brought in... oh wait...

As I keep saying to you the Yes vote will help, nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't make the recession suddenly go away and it doesn't make our government take the correct hard decisions.

Is mise le key

meglome wrote: »

Yup that damn recession and incompetent government that the Lisbon treaty brought in... oh wait...

As I keep saying to you the Yes vote will help, nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't make the recession suddenly go away and it doesn't make our government take the correct hard decisions.

Tell me in what way it facilitates at all the eventual easing of the recession?

The entire capatalist system is cyclical & will resolve itself eventually which has been the case long before the Lisbon treaty. So to claim that the Lisbon treaty will facilitate the free market recovery is a convenience of fact of the former & timing of the two.

When economys recover from the inevitable downturn they have experienced it will be applauded by the Pro Lisbonites as having been a result partly of the Treaty coming into effect & that all the promises of recovery etc. are vidicated.

Yes or No the capatlist system will rise & fall again & the impact the Treaty will have on that will be miniscule if any.

This treaty will allow greater control over domestic affairs here that is indisputable. And even now before this treaty has passed into being the Irish governments brain wave of NAMA is subject to being allowed to pass into being by the EU. So you can see that already a decision on how to best to get our country out of the hole it is in, is not ultimatley going to be taken by our government that we (not me) voted to represent us.

Is this the representative democracy you refer to??

An irish decision is either given the thumbs up or thumbs down by the EU. If it is the latter then Cowen & Co. have to shut up & go back to the drawing board until they come up with an idea that suits the EU model of thinking.

In closing i dont think NAMA is a great idea just to let you know, i think it is the most arrogant display of cronyism yet but the point of this post is to highlight that we have already seen an erosion of power in this country. regardless of your opinion of who is in power or the desicions they make it is subject to the nod from Europe & this is the way it has always been edging closer & closer to a state that has more control in each of its member states that the member states do them selves.

Everything will eventually be subject to EU approval or to be conducted withing EU guidelines.......how can this not be an erosion of sovreignty.

Dr Kamikazi

Considering that the Irish government is run by a bunch of thick cnuts who do nothing but send fat jobs the way of their friends and cronies, but not before wasting millions on useless reports compiled by idiots that don't get read, much less acted on, I would consider it a blessing that any tiny bit of control is taken away from these wasters, idiots and criminals.
It never ceases to amaze me that the Irish, who are a very smart and able bunch otherwise, seem to prefer politicians that look like the came straight from milking the cows.
Or are nothing but double dealing, corrupt sleaze-bags who only have one thing at heart: themselves.
Why else the roads, hospitals, public transport, tunnels that are too low, sports stadiums for 80000 people with no parking, estates that where built with no provision for schools, hospitals, water, waste water facilities, sports grounds, roads, etc... I could rant for days here.
In short, thick cnuts, cronies, idiots, sleazebags, monkeysh*t for brains, criminals, money and vote grabbing piles of excrement!
Go Europe, get some expertise and people who actually can run a country!

Is mise le key

Dr Kamikazi wrote: »

Considering that the Irish government is run by a bunch of thick cnuts who do nothing but send fat jobs the way of their friends and cronies, but not before wasting millions on useless reports compiled by idiots that don't get read, much less acted on, I would consider it a blessing that any tiny bit of control is taken away from these wasters, idiots and criminals.
It never ceases to amaze me that the Irish, who are a very smart and able bunch otherwise, seem to prefer politicians that look like the came straight from milking the cows.
Or are nothing but double dealing, corrupt sleaze-bags who only have one thing at heart: themselves.
Why else the roads, hospitals, public transport, tunnels that are too low, sports stadiums for 80000 people with no parking, estates that where built with no provision for schools, hospitals, water, waste water facilities, sports grounds, roads, etc... I could rant for days here.
In short, thick cnuts, cronies, idiots, sleazebags, monkeysh*t for brains, criminals, money and vote grabbing piles of excrement!
Go Europe, get some expertise and people who actually can run a country!

I hear your voice & genuinley sympathise with your anger & frustration & agree with you on every single thing you said exept two things,

1. I dont beleive they are Thick at all but rather very aware of what they do but dont give a sh.it about the people of this country. They are guilty of crimes against the irish people because of what you touched on their cronism looking after all their elitist friends in positions of wealth.

2. Your advocation to have our domestic affairs controlled by europe simply because our otherwise intelligent electorate return a rotten to the core body of criminals to power.

The answer to our problems is not to look for foreign political solution as you will find that the corruption that has damned our country is running rampant through all capatalist western democracys. The answer to our problems as has always been is from within our country.

YOU & ME are the ones that can change this rotten system here without allowing in even more corruption from abroad. You can see how we are being screwed which is evident from your post & i understand how you are in turn then looking for an alternative to status quo that has damned our country but the answer is Irish men & Irish women standing up for Ireland here at home & us controlling our destiny.

akkadian

theasylumkey wrote: »

I hear your voice & genuinley sympathise with your anger & frustration & agree with you on every single thing you said exept two things,

1. I dont beleive they are Thick at all but rather very aware of what they do but dont give a sh.it about the people of this country. They are guilty of crimes against the irish people because of what you touched on their cronism looking after all their elitist friends in positions of wealth.

2. Your advocation to have our domestic affairs controlled by europe simply because our otherwise intelligent electorate return a rotten to the core body of criminals to power.

The answer to our problems is not to look for foreign political solution as you will find that the corruption that has damned our country is running rampant through all capatalist western democracys. The answer to our problems as has always been is from within our country.

YOU & ME are the ones that can change this rotten system here without allowing in even more corruption from abroad. You can see how we are being screwed which is evident from your post & i understand how you are in turn then looking for an alternative to status quo that has damned our country but the answer is Irish men & Irish women standing up for Ireland here at home & us controlling our destiny.

It's about accountability. If someone is not accountable, then they probably won't be credible. So, in a way it's about probability. If a market is probably over-inflated, you should probably saddle up and make a budget that reflects this. You should probably fight for tighter economic controls. Ireland's strength and weakness is that it's the most economically free country in europe. This is IMO a good thing mainly, but it also allows cowboy investors to make money by short-selling on the market. The flow of credit into and out of this country needs to be properly regulated without too much bureaucracy. From a global point of view, the problem with financial regulation in the global arena is the that it sees the international markets as a system controlled by people. This gets you nowhere. A system itself has to have inbuilt fail-safes and settings. You literally need to see the international financial market from an engineering point of view. It needs to be a system with:

A cap on global market credit flow per day. Regardless of who is depositing and who is withdrawing. It is impossible to keep track of who is depositing and who is withdrawing, even if you remove dodgy financial products like the infamous sub-prime mortgages. The only way is to say there can be a maximum of 'x' amount of capital to and from the market on any day. If someone gets in and withdraws as many shares as they can, then they move to the back of the queue as soon as they reach 'x'. When the market opens the next day, a computer could randomly select the next trader. 'Playing' with the markets simply can't happen if you limit activity per day in this way. There should be algorithms for determining how large 'x' can possibly get according to market size to avoid over-inflation, and how small 'x' can get in times of recession or depression. The market itself should be a very cautious algorithm that can't ever get too quick nor to slow.

Unfortunately, we seem to have a bunch of monkeys going ape at the controls..

Dr Kamikazi

OK, new idea.
Put ads into national and international papers.
"Wanted: Management team with expertise in a variety of fields, such as management of infrastructure, healthcare, finance, defense, (etc... you get the idea)
Previous experience within Irish politics not desired, salary 100k and a full report each week on tasks completed."
Surely a small country with a population of a medium sized city does not need thousands of administrators?
Fire the current lot and put a crackteam of experts on the job.
Since they're private (and non union!) if they fail to perform, you're fired, right next. If he/she doesn't perform, next, etc...
The only problem is the amount of politicians and civil servants who no longer have a role, but there's a lot to be done, hospitals, roads, broadband, plenty of work building and laying cables, course there won't be a 200k salary with bonuses and fat pension it it. That should more than pay for it...

Is mise le key

akkadian wrote: »

It's about accountability. If someone is not accountable, then they probably won't be credible. So, in a way it's about probability. If a market is probably over-inflated, you should probably saddle up and make a budget that reflects this. You should probably fight for tighter economic controls. Ireland's strength and weakness is that it's the most economically free country in europe. This is IMO a good thing mainly, but it also allows cowboy investors to make money by short-selling on the market. The flow of credit into and out of this country needs to be properly regulated without too much bureaucracy. From a global point of view, the problem with financial regulation in the global arena is the that it sees the international markets as a system controlled by people. This gets you nowhere. A system itself has to have inbuilt fail-safes and settings. You literally need to see the international financial market from an engineering point of view. It needs to be a system with:

A cap on global market credit flow per day. Regardless of who is depositing and who is withdrawing. It is impossible to keep track of who is depositing and who is withdrawing, even if you remove dodgy financial products like the infamous sub-prime mortgages. The only way is to say there can be a maximum of 'x' amount of capital to and from the market on any day. If someone gets in and withdraws as many shares as they can, then they move to the back of the queue as soon as they reach 'x'. When the market opens the next day, a computer could randomly select the next trader. 'Playing' with the markets simply can't happen if you limit activity per day in this way. There should be algorithms for determining how large 'x' can possibly get according to market size to avoid over-inflation, and how small 'x' can get in times of recession or depression. The market itself should be a very cautious algorithm that can't ever get too quick nor to slow.

Unfortunately, we seem to have a bunch of monkeys going ape at the controls..

Dr Kamikazi wrote: »

OK, new idea.
Put ads into national and international papers.
"Wanted: Management team with expertise in a variety of fields, such as management of infrastructure, healthcare, finance, defense, (etc... you get the idea)
Previous experience within Irish politics not desired, salary 100k and a full report each week on tasks completed."
Surely a small country with a population of a medium sized city does not need thousands of administrators?
Fire the current lot and put a crackteam of experts on the job.
Since they're private (and non union!) if they fail to perform, you're fired, right next. If he/she doesn't perform, next, etc...
The only problem is the amount of politicians and civil servants who no longer have a role, but there's a lot to be done, hospitals, roads, broadband, plenty of work building and laying cables, course there won't be a 200k salary with bonuses and fat pension it it. That should more than pay for it...

Both of you guys are proving my point.....we have more than enough intelligence in this country to suceed without out sourcing it & seeking approval from europe you have displayed this with the coherent intelligent proposals outlined in your posts above.........we should stay masters of our own destiny & hold the reigns here not let the EU hold the reigns.

akkadian

theasylumkey wrote: »

Both of you guys are proving my point.....we have more than enough intelligence in this country to suceed without out sourcing it & seeking approval from europe you have displayed this with the coherent intelligent proposals outlined in your posts above.........we should stay masters of our own destiny & hold the reigns here not let the EU hold the reigns.

Anyway, I'm against the market itself. I don't believe in public limited companies. Flawed system fundamentally. From an era that doesn't have human rights at heart.

Is mise le key

Minister for foreign affairs yesterday when asked who would be our next commisioner in europe......

" These decisions are things to be discussed in private, we will travel to brussels next week & see what president barosso wants "

How plainly obvious is it now that we are not at the helm of our country really when it comes to decisions like this.......power is being hemoraged to brussels bit by bit. We can keep our commissioner was one of the so called 'Guarantees' secured but only upon the approval behind closed doors by Barosso of who we are allowed put in place. Its pathetic really that we walked ourselves in to where we are on the word of Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, Labour that we have addressed the peoples concerns. Like i said already..........

Everything will eventually be subject to EU approval or to be conducted withing EU guidelines.......how can this not be an erosion of sovreignty.

Ciaran500

theasylumkey wrote: »

Minister for foreign affairs yesterday when asked who would be our next commisioner in europe......

"These decisions are things to be discussed in private, we will travel to brussels next week & see what president barosso wants"

A quote without some sort of source is useless, also you spelt Barrosso wrong so I have a feeling you're paraphrasing.

Is mise le key

Ciaran500 wrote: »

A quote without some sort of source is useless, also you spelt Barrosso wrong so I have a feeling you're paraphrasing.

My apologies for the discrepancys in the spelling of 'Barrosso'.

I heard it from the foreign affairs ministers mouth in actual audio sound format, Him speaking in other words.....

So my source is the foreign affairs minister.