negative edge,

Placebo

only found out it works in sf4 !
works for ex, supers and ULTRAS ! which is great !

negative edge is where you hold on to the button, then perform the motion on your joystick and release button

eg ryu: hold punch, then QCF, then let go of punch, HADOUKEN !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyDIoDu5mPc

DarkTalant

I used to use this, and still do online, when I missed ultras quite a bit to ultra through fireballs as boxer because if you mess up you get a turn punch...

Dreddybajs

Quite useful for Bison's ultra as if you negative edge it there's no chance a teleport will come out instead (or so Azza told me I think)

Placebo

im way behind, ive only played 62 hours, in total according to my sf4 profile counter

Xinkai

Congrats dude... but this has been around since the original street fighter & SF4 is no different... try ultra releasing

Kirby

Xinkai wrote: »

Congrats dude... but this has been around since the original street fighter & SF4 is no different... try ultra releasing

Placebo wrote: »

only found out it works in sf4 !

He knows its been around forever. He was saying he didn't know it worked in sf4.

Personally, I don't need to use it because I use Turbo on my Three button punch to help stop teleport coming out instead of ultra. Works a treat as I've pretty much eliminated that mistake from my game. Once in a blue moon.

bush

Turbo noob :pac:

chopperbyrne

Kirby wrote: »

He knows its been around forever. He was saying he didn't know it worked in sf4.

Personally, I don't need to use it because I use Turbo on my Three button punch to help stop teleport coming out instead of ultra. Works a treat as I've pretty much eliminated that mistake from my game. Once in a blue moon.

Even in the tournaments?

Creature

Ah ye can't beat the piano input. When I first started using that in ST my reversal success rate went from never to practically always. Absolutely invaluable for command throws too.

K.O.Kiki

I'm not even sure HOW that's helping you out, Kirby - maybe you just got better at ending your dpad motion on F instead of D/F?

Kirby

basically, i dont have to worry about timing the button press. Just hold it down and mash out the motion. the game will do the rest.

For example, I knock my opponent over. Hes on the ground. I dash forward, And while sims is dashing, I hold down PPP and do QCF. When the dash stops, the move comes out. Simples. works on wake up too and also when you jump.

Retr0gamer

You won't get away with that in a tournament. You need to replace that with pianoing.

Kirby

Its a weak man who complains about control schemes when he loses.:p

Retr0gamer

No it's just that it's banned in tournaments, definitely evo anyway. You beat me fair and square and pianoing is the same thing but just a more acceptable way of getting the same effect.

Azza

I think its pretty much banned in most fighting tournaments world wide.

Probably do a vote on it before the next tournament.

chopperbyrne

Turbo is cheating.

No doubt.

Next we'll have someone mapping a button to throw and setting it to turbo so they can throw tech 100% of the time.

Turbo is cheating.

Kirby

Several people bind focus or throw to one button. How is that any different?

Seriously, Its not like im using Honda or Blanka with electricity or hand slap. I use the slowest character in the game. I average about 6 attacks a minute

Its a function on the equipment. Its not doing anything that your fingers arent capable of. If you are going to start limiting equipment where does it end? What about 3 punch buttons? how is that any different?

slippery slope. Soon We will be banning akuma for a "stupid fast heavy kick"

Azza

The guys up north have it banned. There also suppose to ban button binding but they let that one slide.

I'm actually one the few that uses the 3p/3k button. I always thought it was generally frowned upon and banned in other games but that SF IV was designed with it in mind. However I realize that the 3p/3k buttons where introduced for the home console version and did not exist on arcade cabinets. I can imagine it was designed with console controllers in mind where pressing all 3 buttons together would be awkward.

The more I use the 3p/3k, the more I think its putting me in bad habits. I think the extra distance my fingers have to cover make throw tech-ing harder. So I'm going switch over to the 3 button press system.

You are allowed set a single button for taunts, focus attack and throws so I don't really have any issue with that. After all ST had one button press for throw. Everyone has access to all these options as well.

bush

Button binding is in the game though. If i used turbo i could just get people in electricity loops without any bother. Hardly fair.

Im pretty sure you can bind buttons in evo too. Am i right?

Dreddybajs

Kirby wrote: »

basically, i dont have to worry about timing the button press. Just hold it down and mash out the motion. the game will do the rest.

For example, I knock my opponent over. Hes on the ground. I dash forward, And while sims is dashing, I hold down PPP and do QCF. When the dash stops, the move comes out. Simples. works on wake up too and also when you jump.

Would definitely prefer if this was banned at tourneys from now on - no offense Kirby as it wasn't banned before but I'd definitely consider this unfair. It's different to button binds because you need the controller to do it... if you say yourself "you don't have to worry about timing" or whatever I don't see how you couldn't agree. Timing is basically the entirety of fighting games.

Azza

Your hardly fair anyway Bush, you use Blanka, he's so OP he can almost beat DAN!

Kirby

you cant piano tap on a pad. You can on a stick. Surely, sticks should be banned due to this unfair advantage?

If somebody wants to use a Nueral brain interface to control their character, I don't mind. Ultimately, its about the player and not his equipment or bindings. I've been down this road before in others games because my mouse has more buttons and I can fill it with macro's. :rolleyes: Seriously people, the option is there for everyone to use it. Moaning about peoples setups just smacks of bad sportmanship.

I don't have an issue with bush using it for blanka electricity or chopper using it for honda slap. The feature is on the official controllers. If they didn't intend you to use it, it wouldn't be there. Just like the 3 punch buttons and kicks. Its not breaking the game, just making execution easier. Instead of having to press three buttons, you press one. Whats the big deal? It always struck me as petty tbh. If you want to hit all three buttons, thats fine. But that shouldnt mean I cant.

Sabre0001

Button binding ok by SuperVSBattle. I think it's ok - as Kirby says, almost impossible to do on a joypad with the button layout unless you switch controls to: LT, RT and face button to punch / kick or something similar. Sticks do not face such a problem as it's just as easy to slam three fingers down at once as press one button.

bush

Ill never understand why they put turbo on the official stick, weird choice.

Kirby

If it makes people feel better, Ill turn it to semi on my triggers instead of turbo . slows down the button presses and give it a delay between presses. Its like morse code Makes it so you cant do stuff like electricity. Moot point tho, Dhalsim doesn't have any moves like that.

Kirby

You should definately come to this weekends casuals mate. Bring your keyboard. I dont think ive ever fought a keyboard player before so it would be cool. Though, having seen your boxer skills with all your vids you would probably rip my silly stretchy dude up. All the G1 boxers are giving me trouble at the moment.

Whats your tag on GFWL btw? Would be cool to have a few games.

Azza

Button binding is fine. No one here has an issue with the in game button binding. No one is suggesting we ban it for SF IV. Perhaps other games but not in SF IV 4 as they are integrated into the actual game.

Turbo is another story. You could just say its help improving execution but I could get some macro for the pc version to preform some super damaging combo at the press of a single button and say hey I could do that but the macro just helpes with execution. I know Turbo isn't as massive an advantage but it still is a slight advantage, that not everyone has access to.

Its not unsportmanship, its the generally accepted rule in fighting tournaments world wide.

It will be put to a vote to be fair, even though I'm pretty sure I know what the outcome will be. Besides from your description of when you use it I'm sure a small amount of practice would resolve the issue of teleporting by accident.

Kirby

As i said, if it bothers people I wont use it. But its not giving me an advantage so I dont see how it would do. I play sim for god sake. he has the attack speed of a tortoise. :rolleyes:

Azza

Kirby wrote:

But its not giving me an advantage

Kirby wrote:

basically, i dont have to worry about timing the button press. Just hold it down and mash out the motion.

There is your advantage. It has to be given you an advantage otherwise why would you use it.

If one person is allowed to use it then everyone would have to be allowed and other characters may gain a considerable more advantage out of it then you are getting out of it with Dhalsim.

Kirby

What i meant by "worrying about the timing" was ending up in a forward motion on the dpad. It works the same way without turbo, you just repeatedly press punch while doing QCF. Like repeatedly charging scissors kick on wakeup...you do it several times to make sure the game engine accepts it. I think i described it badly in my original post. Its just mashing the input while in the air or on wake-up....like buffering akuma's Ultra while in the air if ya get me.

Retr0gamer

The fact is it's banned in every tournament worth it's salt and if we want to be taken seriously well we should stick to the rules that have become accepted at these tournaments. It's obviously banned for a reason and it seems you are getting an advantage in execution from it. I think turbo is on the controllers becasue it excellent for shmuos.

K.O.Kiki

Apart (possibly) from mash moves, I still fail to see how Turbo can give one player an execution advantage.

Kirby

Sshh. quiet you. Your logic has no place in this here thread.

Dreddybajs

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Apart (possibly) from mash moves, I still fail to see how Turbo can give one player an execution advantage.

One frame links though obviously I don't think Kirby is doing this

Azza

I just tested turbo in training and it makes chain combo's a lot easier. Yes chain combos are easy by nature but to get the maximum number of hits in a chain combo is quite tricky and requires timing, where as turning turbo on made it easy to get the maximum number of hits as each moves cancels into each other as soon as its possible to do so.

Probably helps with certain link combos too.

I can imagine some turbo settings are different speeds on different sticks made by different manufacturers. If you had a stick that enabling turbo allowed the player to hold a button and input a command during every possible frame that allowed you to input then link combos would be become stupidly easy.

Kirby wrote:

Sshh. quiet you. Your logic has no place in this here thread.

I'd imagine the organizers of all the major international tournament have gone over the topic in depth. They all have banned turbo from tournaments. I'm sure they have very logical reasons for banning it.

Drebbybajs wrote:

One frame links though obviously I don't think Kirby is doing this

I don't think the madcatz pads and sticks turbo is fast enough to help in tight links. It doesn't register an input every frame so it would still require precise timing. However there could be other sticks with faster turbo's that could be a massive advantage in this area.

Kirby

As I said, it never occurred to me that it would be bothering people.

There are variable settings on mine. If I slowed it down so that stuff like electricity and stuff didn't work, would that make a difference? Probably not but I can't piano tap on a pad and it would be a complete pain to have to buy a stick and relearn at this stage

K.O.Kiki

@Azza: by definition, CHAIN combos are really just "mash & it comes out", so you'd get similar results from just hitting the buttons. Plus they can NOT be Special/Super cancelled, so major damage is prevented.

LINK combos are SUPER-precise (SRK Wiki defines them as: "Link combos are possible when frame advantage from a leading move matches or exceeds that of the move to be linked."), and here is where Turbo won't help.

So I still stand by "Turbo is not inherently bad for normal execution".

Dreddybajs

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

LINK combos are SUPER-precise (SRK Wiki defines them as: "Link combos are possible when frame advantage from a leading move matches or exceeds that of the move to be linked."), and here is where Turbo won't help.

Then how come I can go into trials in SF4, turn on turbo, and do an awful lot of the link stuff just by holding the button down? :pac:

edit: And Kirby reversal timing is so lenient in SF4 that you don't really even need to piano anyway imo

Azza

Yes mash a button to get a chain works, but mashing isn't precise enough to get the maximum number of hits out of a chain. For example try this combo with Bison, j.mk, 3xc.lp, 2xs.lp. You will find it quite easy to get the 3 hits of the c.lp and the first s.lp but the last s.lp is quite tricky. But with turbo its extremely easy.

Moving on to links. If a turbo is fast enough to register an input every frame (i.e one input per frame), you could hold a button down. So say with Bison's c.lk link combos which is a 2 frame link, you would hold the button down and the very first frame you could register an input after the first c.lk is finished you will get the next c.lk starting up this making link combo super easy.

Kirby

I feel fairly comfortable against boxer when they dont have meter...and usually stuff them on the way in. But once they get a few bars, I tend to spend too much time waiting for the EX rush that I get hit by jump ins. You will probably find you are better than you give yourself credit for.

Azza wrote: »

So say with Bison's c.lk link combos which is a 2 frame link, you would hold the button down and the very first frame you could register an input after the first c.lk is finished you will get the next c.lk starting up this making link combo super easy.

Go into training and put input display on and try it. Im betting its not as easy as you think it is .

Dreddybajs

Kirby wrote: »

Go into training and put input display on and try it. Im betting its not as easy as you think it is .

He was saying hypothetically if it was fast enough, not that that particular turbo button is indeed fast enough, you only quoted the bit after that.

Kirby

I realise he was speaking hypothetically, but I was just making the point that TheoryFighter is not the same as doing it in a match and stuff.

Azza

Kirby read my other posts, I already said the Madcatz sticks and pads turbo setting isn't fast enough to do that and even with turbo on would still require precise timing. But if another manufacture has a pad or stick that can register an input every frame with its turbo option then it would work like I explained. The speed of the turbo feature is up to the manufacturer and has nothing to do with the game.

And I already proved my point about chains.

Kirby

fair enough. Anyway, we have gone a little offtopic. We should create a seperate Turbo bashing thread

Placebo

real tournaments in japan take place on cabinets,

no turbo, no button binding.
Both are illegals in major tournaments. Thats all i was aware of.


assigning PPP to one button, maybe be suitable when use a pad but theres no need for it and as AZZA mentioned, its definitely a bad habit, im keeping away from it.

Monkeyto

Same for myself. I've always used the three finger combo, but for me I always found it easier than trying to use a fourth button attached to a Px3. I hate sticks with a fourth button line-up which is why I'll be removing them from my TE stick soon enough.

animaX

Monkeyto wrote: »

I hate sticks with a fourth button line-up which is why I'll be removing them from my TE stick soon enough.

You and me both! Hori ex2 ftw :pac:

A-Trak

Took the lazy way after I bought a stick and mapped PPP to one of the 'spare' buttons on the SE stick.

Have been practicing with the 3 button approach. While different, it doesn't take a huge amount to readjust, initially thought I may remove the 'extra,' buttons'

If I did how would these be filled does anyone know?

bush

A-Trak wrote: »

If I did how would these be filled does anyone know?

You can buy plugs for them.

L31mr0d

A-Trak wrote: »

Have been practicing with the 3 button approach. While different, it doesn't take a huge amount to readjust, initially thought I may remove the 'extra,' buttons'

Agreed. I forced myself to get out of the habit and have found I'm better for it. from watching my inputs in training, I noticed sometimes when moving my hand to do a focus I'd rub off the KKK button and it would throw off the FADC.

After about 10 minutes of training hitting all 3 buttons I'd retrained my muscle memory. That being said, I do think people on controllers, especially with only 4 face buttons, should be given extra consideration. They don't have the luxury of being able to use all their fingers on their right hand for button presses.

A-Trak

Agreed,

Banning the mapping of PPP/KKK for pad users would cripple their game, in effect stopping them using ultras/supers/teleports, unless they had some sort of lobster claw like hand.