UK Independence Party to become involved in the No campaign

Martin 2

I expected a while back that the United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP) we’re going to become involved in the Irish Lisbon referendum on the NO side but I didn’t know to what extent, so here's the first indication: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0903/1224253745052.html

“UKIP is a conservative eurosceptic British political party. Its main aim is the withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the European Union” (Wikipedia). I can’t see Coir having many problems with them (both right wing organisations) but I’d imagine Sinn Fein could have some serious problems with them?

anonymous_joe

Are they the ones that referred to Ireland as a land of pixies and peasants?

Martin 2

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Are they the ones that referred to Ireland as a land of pixies and peasants?

Yes that was Robert Kilroy-Silk (former UKIP MEP), he referred to Ireland as “a country peopled by peasants, priests and pixies”.

Scofflaw

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Are they the ones that referred to Ireland as a land of pixies and peasants?

"Peasants, priests, and pixies". So that's what Marta Andreasen was doing in Ireland.

amused,
Scofflaw

ei.sdraob

UKIP


how about those British Euro skeptics mind their own business and stay in their own country?

talk about interfering in the affairs of another country
http://i32.tinypic.com/1124nm0.jpg
the three guys on the rhs poster above would be spinning in their graves


and while they are at it look into Independence for Scotland and rest

free to prosper

Yesmen are quite happy for all and sundry from self aggrandising EU institutions to come and get involved in an Irish referendum.

Ukip as a party is not get directly involved in anything in Ireland. As is normal, an EU parliamentary group - Freedom and Independence group will fund any activity in Ireland.
THis is normal practice - many EU parliament groups are funding Lisbon referendum activities in Ireland.
Given that the Yes side is outspending the No side at least 10 to 1, I'm personally quite happy to see some No side funding come in.

The Yes side know that Lisbon has no benefits for Ireland so they can only move forward by slandering everybody on the no side and dishonestly spouting about membership of the EU - when it is not in doubt in any way.

Its also interesting that the parts of the Republic which voted UNionist in the 1918? election also has the highest Yes to Lisbon in the last referendum.
A comparative map of vote in both elections would be enlightening.

Places like Dun Laoghaire which were UK Unionist are now Euro Unionist.

Grovelling Yesmen love to work for an empire - any empire will do.

Euro_Kraut

From that article:

THE UK Independence Party (UKIP) will send a leaflet to every Irish home urging a No vote in the Lisbon Treaty to close an “open door” to immigrants.

It will also argue that the final decision on sensitive ethical issues such as abortion and euthanasia will pass from Irish to European courts if the treaty is ratified.

Its is incredible that that a party that rallies against poltical interfernece from Brusselles in their own affairs sees nothing wrong in meddling in Irish politics.

ei.sdraob

free to prosper wrote: »

Yesmen are quite happy for all and sundry from self aggrandising EU institutions to come and get involved in an Irish referendum.

Ukip as a party is not get directly involved in anything in Ireland. As is normal, an EU parliamentary group - Freedom and Independence group will fund any activity in Ireland.
THis is normal practice - many EU parliament groups are funding Lisbon referendum activities in Ireland.
Given that the Yes side is outspending the No side at least 10 to 1, I'm personally quite happy to see some No side funding come in.

The Yes side know that Lisbon has no benefits for Ireland so they can only move forward by slandering everybody on the no side and dishonestly spouting about membership of the EU - when it is not in doubt in any way.

Its also interesting that the parts of the Republic which voted UNionist in the 1918? election also has the highest Yes to Lisbon in the last referendum.
A comparative map of vote in both elections would be enlightening.

Places like Dun Laoghaire which were UK Unionist are now Euro Unionist.

Grovelling Yesmen love to work for an empire - any empire will do.

so you have no problem taking money from a party that described the Irish as

"Peasants, priests, and pixies"

a party thats against non-UK entities like the EU "interfering with UK"

yet turns around and interferes with affairs of another country

a country that spend how many years to break away from the dreaded British rule?

****ing hypocrites

P. Breathnach

free to prosper wrote: »

... Its also interesting that the parts of the Republic which voted UNionist in the 1918? election also has the highest Yes to Lisbon in the last referendum.
A comparative map of vote in both elections would be enlightening.

Places like Dun Laoghaire which were UK Unionist are now Euro Unionist.

Grovelling Yesmen love to work for an empire - any empire will do.

I love it.

But it does smack a little of desperation.

ei.sdraob

http://www.ukip.org/content/ukip-policies/1014-campaign-policies-euro-elections-2009


The UK Independence Party believes that the UK should withdraw from the European Union


Im sorry but if they want the UK to with draw from EU thats fine (good riddance some may say)

but they are not ****ing dragging this country down with them into another "Union" under the rule of their belowed monarch

Ireland has been there done that


these people are a terrible joke and they should go back to whatever holes and country they crawled out of

sink

To be fair as a EU parliamentary grouping the Ind & Dems have every right to campaign here on EU issues. Not that I agree with anything they have to say but I will defend their right to say it.

Their campaign reeks of hypocrisy tho. I can just imagine their vitriolic reaction to a French or German campaign in the UK.

O'Morris

ei.sdraob wrote:

so you have no problem taking money from a party that described the Irish as

"Peasants, priests, and pixies"

I'd advise you to retract that before a moderator sees it. The pro-Lisbon moderators don't take kindly to people telling lies.

The UKIP never described the Irish as "Peasants, priests, and pixies" and you know it.

free to prosper

Ireland's UK unionists have now become its EUro unionists.

Grovelling Yesmen don't have arguments in favour of Lisbon so they just slander the opposition.

UKIP is not becoming directly involved in this referendum at all so mods should change the thread title.

As I sure you know - Kilroy Silk was thrown out of UKIP many years ago - nor were his personal views at any time - policy of UKIP when he was there.

Grovelling Yesman know this of course - they're just desparate for a smear.

"A province once again, a province once again."

marco_polo

free to prosper wrote: »

Ireland's UK unionists have now become its EUro unionists.

Grovelling Yesmen don't have arguments in favour of Lisbon so they just slander the opposition.

UKIP is not becoming directly involved in this referendum at all so mods should change the thread title.

As I sure you know - Kilroy Silk was thrown out of UKIP many years ago - nor were his personal views at any time - policy of UKIP when he was there.

Grovelling Yesman know this of course - they're just desparate for a smear.

"A province once again, a province once again."

Under what defination of 'not getting involved' is sending a leaflet to every irish home 'not getting involved'?

oscarBravo

O'Morris wrote: »

I'd advise you to retract that before a moderator sees it. The pro-Lisbon moderators don't take kindly to people telling lies.

The UKIP never described the Irish as "Peasants, priests, and pixies" and you know it.

If you have a problem with a post, report it. Better yet, refute it.

free to prosper wrote: »

Grovelling Yesmen don't have arguments in favour of Lisbon so they just slander the opposition.

The sheer hypocrisy is so breathtaking it's almost funny.

ei.sdraob

O'Morris wrote: »

I'd advise you to retract that before a moderator sees it. The pro-Lisbon moderators don't take kindly to people telling lies.

The UKIP never described the Irish as "Peasants, priests, and pixies" and you know it.

Lies?? http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Robert+Kilroy-Silk+%2B+Ireland+%2B+pixie

you want evidence?

here you go

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article496198.ece


http://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/assets/docs/briefing/theres-something-about-ukip.pdf

Dr Alan Sked, UKIP’s founder leader, 1993-97 has said: “They [UKIP] are racist
and have been infected by the far right”2
Robert Kilroy-Silk (UKIP MEP since 2004) wrote in the Daily Express: “They
[Muslims] are backward and evil and if it is racist to say so… then racist I must be –
and happy and proud, to be so”.3
In December 2003, he discussed what he called “bleating blacks and Asians” in
Britain, asking “Why don’t they stop whining and get a life?”4
In the unrest following the Iraq war, Kilroy-Silk also went on record saying that
“the orgy of thieving in Iraq has more to do with the character of the people than
the absence of restraining troops. And to think that good, decent, law-abiding
young British and American men and women laid down their lives to liberate this
thieving mob”.5
He believes that “Moslems everywhere behave with equal savagery”.6 And he also
referred to Ireland as “a country peopled by peasants, priests and pixies”.7 Robert
Kilroy-Silk later apologised for this remark

these people are openly racist!

edit: oh wait i just realized something. O'Morris how many threads/posts have you started/participated in about immigration?? UKIP fit your views about immigration perfectly now wonder you are defending on to them, one of a kind i say, your views on movement of people directly contradicts the founding principle of EU

/

bright

free to prosper wrote: »

Ireland's UK unionists have now become its EUro unionists.

Grovelling Yesmen don't have arguments in favour of Lisbon so they just slander the opposition.

The following are some arguments from the Yes campaign-

taken from Generationyes.ie.

But hey don't let informing yourself get in the way of a good story, eh?



Dealing with the Financial Crisis

Ireland can’t fight global economic forces on its own. In a global financial storm, the EU is Ireland’s safe harbour.



*Member states will be encouraged to co-ordinate their responses to the financial crisis, including for instance stimulus packages (Article 2 TFEU)
* Full employment and social progress will be made a Union objective (Article 3.3 TEU)
* Member states will share best practice in industry (Article 156 TFEU)
* Regulation of money markets will be improved with requirements for member states to cooperate in economic policies (Article 2 TEU) and with more control by national parliaments (Article 12 TEU)
* Lisbon will encourage investment from abroad and raise employer confidence by confirming our place at the heart of Europe




Making Ireland more competitive

The roadmap to economic recovery



* The new deal will protect Ireland’s absolute right to set our own tax rates (Article 115 TFEU)
* The EU will promote research and development in Europe. This means the opportunity to create high-tech jobs for Ireland (Article 179 TFEU, Article 189 TFEU)
* The EU will be required to prioritise funding for development in rural areas. This means more roads and broadband access in new areas (Article 174 TFEU)
* More money will be invested in renewable energy – giving Ireland the chance to create thousands of jobs in green industry (Article 194.1.c TFEU). Right now, we aren’t maximising our opportunities in this area.
* Public services (like healthcare, education and transport) are protected from privatisation. Member States decide which services are best run by governments (Protocol on services of general interest)
* The EU will help and support Irish tourism (Article 195 TFEU)





Crime and Justice

Modern Crime doesn’t recognise borders. Lisbon ensures our police and legal systems can cooperate across them too.



Lisbon helps Gardaí in the fight cross-border crime like:

* Drug-smuggling and money-laundering: the Treaty contains concrete provisions which mean we can fight these crimes more effectively. The alternative is standing by and doing nothing to increase pressure on these criminals (Article 83 TFEU).
* Sex-slavery: In the last two years, over 100 women and girls have been trafficked into Ireland in to be exploited in the sex industry [link]. This is a modern, global form of slavery, that is happening in our own country every day. We can only fight this international problem by working more closely with other European countries. The Lisbon Treaty strengthens police cooperation, enabling the EU to deal effectively with this horrific crime (Article 83 TFEU)
* Human trafficking: Many people die trying to get into the EU every year, because people-smugglers transport them in brutal and unscrupulous ways. Voting YES means that member states can cooperate better on this cross-border issue, and make sure things like this never happen again. (Article 83.1 TFEU)



Ireland has an opt-out in the area of cooperation on crime which means we can choose which laws we adopt, and which we don’t (Protocol on the position of Ireland and the United Kingdom in respect of the Area of Freedom, Security and Justice)





Keep Ireland Strong

Our elected Government representatives get more input in EU decisions.



* Under Lisbon all draft EU laws will be sent to the Oireachtas to discuss publicly and decide which ones it believes are needed. Dublin votes before Brussels. (Article 12 TEU, Protocol on the role of national parliaments in the European Union)
* Lisbon requires the European Council, the gathering of EU heads of state and government, to meet at least twice as often as currently (Article 15.3 TEU), to make sure it responds to our needs
* Meetings of the Council of Ministers and the European Council will now take place in public and will be fully open to scrutiny (Articles 15 and 16 TEU)
* Ratifying the Treaty will provide greater opportunities for our elected representatives, in the both the European Council and the European Parliament, to speak on our behalf at the European level (Article 16 TEU)
* To keep decision-making effective, the heads of government will choose a President to act as an independent umpire, seeking consensus between member states. This person will have no voting power – your elected representatives make the decisions. (Article 15.5 TEU)
* The Lisbon Treaty sets out exactly where the EU can and cannot act. Currently this line in the sand does not exist which means there is uncertainty about where EU power extends. Lisbon sets that line. (Title I, TFEU)





The Environment and climate change

Voting YES commits the EU to fighting climate change.



* We can’t solve global warming on our own. The EU has a target of reducing greenhouse gases by 20% by 2020. Lisbon provides a framework for us to do this
* Lisbon makes fighting climate change a fundamental objective of the EU(Article 3.3 TEU, Article 21.2.d and f TEU, Article 191.1 TFEU)
* More money will be invested in renewable energy – giving Ireland the chance to create thousands of jobs in green industry (Article 194.1.c TFEU)
* It commits the EU to improve the environment, not just protect it (Article 3.3 TEU)





EU in the World

Voting YES means Irish neutrality is legally protected and allows member states to cooperate better in peacekeeping and humanitarian missions



* The 27 EU countries will be better able to work together on peacekeeping missions, on a case-by-case basis. Each country is free to opt in or out in all these missions. (Article 42.4 TEU; Article 31.1 TEU)
* EU countries will only be able to use defence policy for peacekeeping, conflict-prevention and strengthening international security, in accordance with the UN Charter. (Article 43.2 TEU)
* There is no EU army, and no conscription. In the few countries where conscription happens in national armies, this is being phased out.
* There will be a new position: the High Representative for Foreign Affairs. This person will speak for the member-states, but only when they all agree a common position. Any issue that the High Rep speaks on must be agreed unanimously by all the members of the Council – this means Ireland has a veto on any topic that is discussed (Article 24.1 TEU, Article 31.1 TEU)
* If Ireland suffers a natural disaster or a terrorist attack, the other EU countries are obliged to provide assistance, e.g. humanitarian aid. Likewise, Ireland will assist another EU state which is attacked, but only in accordance with our policy of neutrality. (Article 222 TFEU)





Democratic Reform

Voting YES means you get a more democratic, accountable and transparent EU



* Your elected representatives in the European Parliament play a bigger role in decision-making: 40 new areas need their approval. (Articles 75, 77, 78 , 79 , 81, 82 , 83, 84, 85, 87, 88 TFEU)
* Direct democracy: Voting Yes means that the EU will have to respond to a petition signed by citizens across Europe. Issues you care about will be considered. (Article 11 TEU)
* All Council meetings will be in public and all laws discussed. (Article 16.8 TEU)
* National Parliaments will have a greater role in oversight of EU decisions, with a formal process for reviewing all proposals. All EU regulation will be checked by the Oireachtas. (Article 12 TEU)
* Every EU law will need to comply with the Charter of Fundamental Rights. The Charter is a statement of values and principles that are already common to member states. It will only apply EU law. (Article 51, Charter on Fundamental Rights)

bill_ashmount

Great news. A progressive party who aren't afraid to shy away from issues like immigration etc.

Will counterbalance the amount of pro-european information been thrown at us from all corners of the union.

bill_ashmount

ei.sdraob wrote: »

UKIP


how about those British Euro skeptics mind their own business and stay in their own country?

talk about interfering in the affairs of another country
http://i32.tinypic.com/1124nm0.jpg
the three guys on the rhs poster above would be spinning in their graves


and while they are at it look into Independence for Scotland and rest

lol, because the yes campaigners throughout Europe aren't getting involved????

lol again

bill_ashmount

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Lies?? http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Robert+Kilroy-Silk+%2B+Ireland+%2B+pixie

you want evidence?

here you go

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article496198.ece


http://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/assets/docs/briefing/theres-something-about-ukip.pdf





these people are openly racist!

edit: oh wait i just realized something. O'Morris how many threads/posts have you started/participated in about immigration?? UKIP fit your views about immigration perfectly now wonder you are defending on to them, one of a kind i say

/

Show me their policies that are racist? Your picking out a former memeber to make your point. List a policy here that is racist please?

ei.sdraob

bill_ashmount wrote: »

lol, because the yes campaigners throughout Europe aren't getting involved????

lol again

like whom?

please list from outside of Ireland involved in Lisbon

bill_ashmount

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Lies?? http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Robert+Kilroy-Silk+%2B+Ireland+%2B+pixie

you want evidence?

here you go

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article496198.ece


http://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/assets/docs/briefing/theres-something-about-ukip.pdf





these people are openly racist!

edit: oh wait i just realized something. O'Morris how many threads/posts have you started/participated in about immigration?? UKIP fit your views about immigration perfectly now wonder you are defending on to them, one of a kind i say, your views on movement of people directly contradicts the founding principle of EU

/

FYI, been opposed to mass immigration does not you racist, it makes you opposed to mass immigration.

bill_ashmount

ei.sdraob wrote: »

like whom?

please list any hypocritical and/or openly racist organisations/parties from outside of Ireland involved in Lisbon

Sorry your right, no one from Europe has said anything about the referendum. I never mentioned racism???????

Please point out one of their policies that are racist???
The amount of people like you who use the term racist to stiffle debate is unreal. Do you know what the term means? If so then show me one of their policies that is racist.

ei.sdraob

bill_ashmount wrote: »

FYI, been opposed to mass immigration does not you racist, it makes you opposed to mass immigration.

perhaps you should read thru O'Morris'es past posts and threads here on boards

he is opposed to free movement of people which is a founding block of the EU

UKIP have attracted all sorts of openly racist people and want to leave the EU altogether

which is funny as if Lisbon is passed then they would have a mechanism for leaving the EU which doesn't exist now

ei.sdraob

bill_ashmount wrote: »

Sorry your right, no one from Europe has said anything about the referendum. I never mentioned racism???????

please please list any parties from outside Ireland

that are sending leaflets to Irish households

racist or not racist

O'Morris

oscarBravo wrote:

If you have a problem with a post, report it. Better yet, refute it.

As I expected.

ei.sdraob wrote:

you want evidence?

I would like to see the evidence to back up your claim that the UKIP referred to the Irish as "peasants, priests and pixies".

Was Robert Kilroy-Silk speaking on behalf of the UKIP at the time he made those comments in his newspaper column? Was he even a member of the party at the time? If he subsequently apologised for his comments, and if there isn't any evidence that the UKIP have officially endorsed his views, in what sense would it be fair to claim that the UKIP referred to the Irish as "peasants, priests and pixies"?

bill_ashmount

ei.sdraob wrote: »

please please list any parties from outside Ireland

that are sending leaflets to Irish households

racist or not racist

You said: mind their own business and stay in their own country?

I said: lol, because the yes campaigners throughout Europe aren't getting involved????

I never stated any parties, I said Yes campaigners from Europe, there is thousands of them involved. To deny this is folly. They are all over the newspapers and tv. Your getting upset because other Europeans are supporting a NO campaign.


You still haven't shown me the racist policies of the UKIP that you claim exist?

ei.sdraob

bill_ashmount wrote: »

I never stated any parties, I said Yes campaigners from Europe, there is thousands of them involved. To deny this is folly. They are all over the newspapers and tv.?

whom? where?

bill_ashmount

ei.sdraob wrote: »

whom? where?

What about those European cyclists who came over here campaigning for a YES vote. What about the French President?


You still haven't produced a racist policy????
You said that UKIP want to leave the EU. This doesn't make them racist as you imply.


I'm done with this now, I've asked you numerous times to produce a policy and you can't. You keep avoiding the question. You stated they are racist and now you can't back it up.

bill_ashmount

ei.sdraob wrote: »

he is opposed to free movement of people which is a founding block of the EU

One last thing, been opposed to free movement of people doesn't make you racist, it makes you opposed to the free movement of people. I wish people would learn the meaning of racism, although i suppose it suits their need to band it around to stop debate happening.

Scofflaw

bill_ashmount wrote: »

What about those European cyclists who came over here campaigning for a YES vote. What about the French President?


You still haven't produced a racist policy????
You said that UKIP want to leave the EU. This doesn't make them racist as you imply.


I'm done with this now, I've asked you numerous times to produce a policy and you can't. You keep avoiding the question. You stated they are racist and now you can't back it up.

A little discussion for everyone to enjoy. However, the UKIP's racism or otherwise is irrelevant - the point remains that a UK political party is intervening in an Irish referendum for its own political reasons. If someone can think of any other party of whom this is equally the case, feel free to say so.

cordially,
Scofflaw