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UK Independence Party to become involved in the No campaign

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    #32
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    bill_ashmount wrote: »
    What about those European cyclists who came over here campaigning for a YES vote. What about the French President?


    You still haven't produced a racist policy????
    You said that UKIP want to leave the EU. This doesn't make them racist as you imply.


    I'm done with this now, I've asked you numerous times to produce a policy and you can't. You keep avoiding the question. You stated they are racist and now you can't back it up.

    did i say anywhere in this thread that they have a racist policy?

    no?? well read the thread again, i called them racist (xenophobic would be a better label in hindsight) i did not say anything about racist policies

    as for being racist/xenophobic


    * they have a very strong anti immigration policy (evidence provided)

    * they recruit people with racist background (evidence provided) who made some stupid remarks

    * their founder called them racist (evidence provided)

    * they want to leave EU and isolate the country


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    #33
    anonymous_joe
    Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    In fairness lads, an openly right-wing, anti-immigrant, anti-European party like UKIP won't have anything in commen with Cóir's far-right, pro-Latin Massers.


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    #34
    Martin 2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 268 ✭✭Martin 2


    The UKIP want a UK withdrawl from the EU, hence the name of their party and their opposition to Lisbon, will they also recommend Ireland's withdrawal from the EU while campaigning here, I very much doubt it. Will they have to live with the social, economic and political fallout of a No vote in this country, no they'll scoot back to their own country having achieved their own political aims at our expense.

    .


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    #35
    bill_ashmount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭bill_ashmount


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    A little discussion for everyone to enjoy. However, the UKIP's racism or otherwise is irrelevant - the point remains that a UK political party is intervening in an Irish referendum for its own political reasons. If someone can think of any other party of whom this is equally the case, feel free to say so.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw

    Do you have a problem with American MNC's getting involved pumping money into the YES campagn?


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    #36
    bill_ashmount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭bill_ashmount


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    did i say anywhere in this thread that they have a racist policy?

    no?? well read the thread again, i called them racist (xenophobic would be a better label in hindsight) i did not say anything about racist policies

    as for being racist/xenophobic


    * they have a very strong anti immigration policy (evidence provided)

    * they recruit people with racist background (evidence provided) who made some stupid remarks

    * their founder called them racist (evidence provided)

    * they want to leave EU and isolate the country


    You said they are a racist party, a party is defined by it's policys. I have asked you to provide evidence, you can't.

    A strong immigration policy isn't racist despite what people like you say.

    Wanting to leave the EU isn't racist.


    As to having people who make stupid remarks, Enda Kenny is a fine example. Therefore anyone who is in Fine Gael or votes for them is racist. This is a fact (well at least according to your logic)


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    #37
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    bill_ashmount wrote: »
    Do you have a problem with American MNC's getting involved pumping money into the YES campagn?

    If they're in Ireland, employing Irish people, putting their investment into our economy, and affected by what happens to Ireland, that's not a problem. None of those things apply to UKIP - they're a foreign political party with an agenda of withdrawal from the EU, and they want to use us as a cat's paw in their agenda.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #38
    bill_ashmount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭bill_ashmount


    Nicolas Sarkozy has his pro-european agenda, but no one in the YES side seems to mind him inteferring in internal Irish politics.


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    #39
    MrMicra
    Closed Accounts Posts: 457 ✭✭MrMicra


    free to prosper wrote: »

    Grovelling Yesmen love to work for an empire - any empire will do.

    How curious that you have never posted outside the European Union forum, almost like there was a deliberate campaign by crazies all over Europe to try to influence our referendum.


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    #40
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    bill_ashmount wrote: »
    Nicolas Sarkozy has his pro-european agenda, but no one in the YES side seems to mind him inteferring in internal Irish politics.

    Nicholas Sarkozy hasn't gone on a campaign tour in Ireland - like Jens-Peter Bonde and Marta Andreasen (UKIP) - nor is he planning to send campaign material to every household in Ireland. He may say things that you regard as interference, but UKIP and Bonde are actively campaigning here, and I don't recall any No proponents having any difficulty with pronouncements from Klaus, or Cameron, or Hannan, or Farage, or the Torygraph.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #41
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    bill_ashmount wrote: »
    Nicolas Sarkozy has his pro-european agenda, but no one in the YES side seems to mind him inteferring in internal Irish politics.

    How has he 'interferred', outside his previous position as President of the European Union, of course?

    If his 'interference' is limited to a few comments then I don't think it's really comperable.

    Nobody minds UKIP having an opinion on the Irish referendum, I personally object to them directly attempting to influence Ireland's vote in order to further their own aims, which are quite obviously for the benefit of Britain alone, and not the EU as a whole (including Ireland) or Ireland alone.


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    #42
    MrMicra
    Closed Accounts Posts: 457 ✭✭MrMicra


    bill_ashmount wrote: »
    Nicolas Sarkozy has his pro-european agenda, but no one in the YES side seems to mind him inteferring in internal Irish politics.

    He isn't anti Irish. UKIP are.


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    #43
    O'Morris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 619 ✭✭✭O'Morris


    Scofflaw wrote:
    None of those things apply to UKIP - they're a foreign political party with an agenda of withdrawal from the EU, and they want to use us as a cat's paw in their agenda.

    I have no problem with either pro or anti-Lisbon parties from outside Ireland getting involved in the campaign. I think it will probably be a good thing because if the second referendum returns a no vote then the blame for the failure will not just rest with Irish politicians.

    The Lisbon treaty will affect all of the people of the EU and so I think it's right that the rest of Europe's population should be given the chance to make their views known. I very much welcome the intervention of the UKIP and I hope they'll get a good response.


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    #44
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    O'Morris wrote: »
    I have no problem with either pro or anti-Lisbon parties from outside Ireland getting involved in the campaign. I think it will probably be a good thing because if the second referendum returns a no vote then the blame for the failure will not just rest with Irish politicians.

    The blame for the failure would rest squarely and properly with the Irish people.


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    #45
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    O'Morris wrote: »
    I have no problem with either pro or anti-Lisbon parties from outside Ireland getting involved in the campaign. I think it will probably be a good thing because if the second referendum returns a no vote then the blame for the failure will not just rest with Irish politicians.

    The Lisbon treaty will affect all of the people of the EU and so I think it's right that the rest of Europe's population should be given the chance to make their views known. I very much welcome the intervention of the UKIP and I hope they'll get a good response.

    An easy enough position for someone such as yourself to take since there are no pro lisbon parties from outside Ireland attempting to intervene.

    I certainly do not welcome the intervention of the UKIP, but as a yes voter I am sure they will have a very positive impact on the referendum.


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    #46
    Euro_Kraut
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭Euro_Kraut


    I actually don't have a problem with any European party getting involed in the campaign here. In fact I welcome it. Its is a European issue after all.

    What I do object to is the hypocracy of the UKIP on the issue of political inference from other countries.


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    #47
    O'Morris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 619 ✭✭✭O'Morris


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote:
    The blame for the failure would rest squarely and properly with the Irish people.

    A no vote wouldn't a failure for the people. It would only be a failure from the point of view of the politicians who set out to persuade us to vote yes. That's why I think it would be a good thing if the Europeans got involved in the campaign as the responsibility for the outcome would then be shared between Irish politicians and the outsiders.

    marco_polo wrote:
    An easy enough position for someone such as yourself to take since there are no pro lisbon parties from outside Ireland attempting to intervene.

    I have no problem with any political party intervening in this referendum campaign.

    marco_polo wrote:
    I certainly do not welcome the intervention of the UKIP, but as a yes voter I am sure they will have a very positive impact on the referendum.

    Don't underestimate the influence that an educated English accent can have on an uneducated Irish mind.


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    #48
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    O'Morris wrote: »
    Don't underestimate the influence that an educated English accent can have on an uneducated Irish mind.

    Is that their view or yours? I suspect both actually. :rolleyes:


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    #49
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    O'Morris wrote: »
    A no vote wouldn't a failure for the people. It would only be a failure from the point of view of the politicians who set out to persuade us to vote yes. That's why I think it would be a good thing if the Europeans got involved in the campaign as the responsibility for the outcome would then be shared between Irish politicians and the outsiders.

    I would be looking at those, well funded, fringe, No campaigners that spout nothing but lies and untruths.

    Wow... basically every No voter I've come across has been bitching about the slightest hint of 'interference' in our referendum, from anyone advocating a Yes, from outside of Ireland. And now there are No campaigners from outside Ireland 'interfering' we should be all for it.

    I'd trust those UKIP guys even less than Cóir and that's bad.


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    #50
    conchubhar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭conchubhar1


    why would sinn féin have a problem with them?

    i know little of ukip (only little of what they do in europe) but from what i know is that they support more referenda, respect votes and call for an english parliament (makes sense)


    whether they come over here to cmpaign and use facts or not we will have to wait and see, hopefully they will and I have no cause to think they won't.


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    #51
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    conchubhar1 wrote: »
    why would sinn féin have a problem with them?

    i know little of ukip (only little of what they do in europe) but from what i know is that they support more referenda, respect votes and call for an english parliament (makes sense)


    whether they come over here to cmpaign and use facts or not we will have to wait and see, hopefully they will and I have no cause to think they won't.

    They want to take the UK out of the EU. Now I could be wrong but considering the queue of countries that have always been trying to get in I'd guess that is a stupid idea.

    I assuming but I can't see that bunch telling the truth.


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    #52
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    UKIP are a UK Party and their reasons for leaving the EU are Specific to the UK.

    We have fought long enough for independence from the UK, both economically and militarily to be influenced by them again.

    About 70% of our trade, if not more, was with the UK when we joined, tying us to the UK, Sterling, Devaluation etc.

    Now a third of our trade is with them, about the same is with the EU.
    We are as close to as being independent economically of the UK as we will ever be. We can thank the EU and the Euro for that.

    We got our Military independence by ourselves and used the EU To gain more and more economic independence from them. I will not listen to a party that has only the UK's interest at heart, supposedly, and doesn't give a b*llocks about Ireland.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #53
    conchubhar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭conchubhar1


    i for one am shocked - so they are a united kingdom political party with the u.k and england at heart

    how dare they

    plus as they said - they are not the tories, they were not the ones in ireland etc


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    #54
    AuRevoir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46 ✭AuRevoir


    It makes no difference to me whether UKIP get involved or not. I'm still voting No regardless.


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    #55
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    conchubhar1 wrote: »
    i for one am shocked - so they are a united kingdom political party with the u.k and england at heart

    how dare they

    plus as they said - they are not the tories, they were not the ones in ireland etc

    So you're perfectly OK with foreign political parties campaigning in Irish referendums. As long as they're not the Tories, that is - or looking for a Yes.

    This is a pretty grim precedent. The appallingly thin excuse that they're "not the Tories" doesn't mean anything at all, and it's grotesque to see supposed 'patriots' clutching it like fig-leaf.

    Let's be clear what's happening. A political party from another country - not just any country, either, but our large and traditionally dominant neighbour - wants to campaign in Ireland for a No vote by Ireland. They will reap any perceived benefits of such a No, but any other consequences for Ireland they will entirely avoid.

    And you support this.

    Scofflaw


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    #56
    AuRevoir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46 ✭AuRevoir


    Scofflaw wrote: »

    They will reap any perceived benefits of such a No, but any other consequences for Ireland they will entirely avoid.

    And you support this.

    Scofflaw

    The consequences for Ireland is that we remain under the Nice Treaty, as will the rest of Europe. Anything else you say is blatant scaremongering.;)


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    #57
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    AuRevoir wrote: »
    The consequences for Ireland is that we remain under the Nice Treaty, as will the rest of Europe. Anything else you say is blatant scaremongering.;)

    But you forego the advantages like making the EU more democratic.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #58
    conchubhar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭conchubhar1


    true - anyway sinn féin are a welcoming party in fairness
    they see all sides, negotiating with dup anyone

    plus, ukip in the way they are anti lisbon are ''friendly'' to the no side - sinn féin included

    this isnt a discussion on sinn féin - i just had to poke at the weak jab that sinn féin should be against this (them being a ''british'' party was hinted at - and above a jab at patriotism)

    conchubhar, sighingly.


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    #59
    AuRevoir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46 ✭AuRevoir


    K-9 wrote: »
    But you forego the advantages like making the EU more democratic.

    Ireland voted No already and their No vote wasn't accepted by the EU. Nothing democratic in that then from a so called democratic organisation.


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    #60
    conchubhar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭conchubhar1


    K-9 wrote: »
    But you forego the advantages like making the EU more democratic.

    true that - my only concern is why was half of this not implmented years ago


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    #61
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    AuRevoir wrote: »
    Ireland voted No already and their No vote wasn't accepted by the EU. Nothing democratic in that then from a so called democratic organisation.

    Not that line again.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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