For those involved in FF...the poll...

...I appreciate there's a thread elsewhere dealing with the general implications of this and previous polls.

But for anyone who is involved with FF, what do you think this means in terms of the party, the leadership?

I would have thought the results of the locals would have brought some purge. There has been the odd tremor, like the move of the Sligo TDs, but nothing seismic. Which is disappointing - I thought too many long term supporters of the party and too many good candidates lost in the locals to enable the leadership brush it under the carpet. Yet that's what they did, they seemed to think that they could tough it out and things would simply get better with time. Clearly this is not happening, and surely backbenchers will get edgier and edgier. So will we get to see some heads roll in the near future? Would have thought Coghlan a certainty to go months ago, she must be considered a serious liability.

optocynic

I fully agree with you, and I am just as baffled at the sheer gall of FF to not shake things up. I live in hope.

Sweary Mary has got to be a gonner!!

But, it is also worth discussing Enda's future in FG.
We all know that they would be a far more daunting opponent with RB at the helm!

freewheeler

The whole party is a liability;)

ninty9er

To be honest Conor, I'm a member of the party who is delighted at the low number of councillors elected as it will allow us a "deadwood purge" like FG got in the 2002 General Election. If candidates were good enough and were talking to enough people, they would have been elected on their merit. Some were good enough and didn't put in the effort, but a lot of the party's sitting councillors hadn't done a tap in 4 1/2 years and it's good enough that they lost their seats.

I'm a great believer in the HQ interview process, as it puts someone electable out there in the interest of the party, however this also serves the public, as to be determined electable, you have to have a work ethic. Elsewhere being a sitting councillor got you on a ticket anyway, in some cases quite unfortunately.

a) Why would anyone WANT to lead the party, Cowen does for some reason, and my belief is that his reason is that he firmly believes he can turn things around.

b) What is there to be gained from a change in leadership. People are just learning their briefs. A change from Finance for Lenihan or Justice for Ahern will leave the potential of the experience gathered in the last 18 months unspent.

As you were.

nesf

Guys, you really don't want a change in leadership right now unless you think the likes of Coughlan or some other 2nd rate front bencher would make a better Taoiseach than Cowen. Anyone worth replacing him as leader won't touch it with a ten foot barge pole, they'll bide their time until the inevitable leadership challenge after FF get put in Opposition and won't risk having their name tarnished by leading FF into what looks like the most crushing defeat that they've seen in a generation.


I'd also agree that a good "deadwood purge" will do wonders for the party and said defeat will be a good thing for FF in the long run.


To clarify, I'm not a member of FF or any political party in case anyone thinks that I replied to this thread because I am one.

irish_bob

lennehan is the obvious choice to replace cowen as the next leader of fianna fail but he wont get to be taoiseach for many years and i suspect he would not want to be , he has shown a hell of a lot more courage than cowen throughout the last year , the man seems to be on tv or radio several times a day and is not shying away from confrontation and hard questions , this does not mean i support NAMA btw

Liam Byrne

irish_bob wrote: »

lennehan......has shown a hell of a lot more courage than cowen throughout the last year , the man seems to be on tv or radio several times a day and is not shying away from confrontation and hard questions , this does not mean i support NAMA btw

Unfortunately none of the interviewers/questioners that I've heard haven't asked the obvious questions:

"WHY DIDN'T YOU READ THE FU*KING REPORT ?"
"WHY SHOULD WE TRUST YOU WHEN YOU INVEST OUR MONEY WITHOUT READING THE REPORT ?"

is_that_so

FF need time in opposition to address their problems. There is little they can do in the meantime that will not been as some type of "scam". I also believe that some in the upper echelons of the party genuinely recognise this and echo ninty9er above .

They do appear to be where FG were in 2002 and facing the same disaster in Dublin. The fact that their core vote has slipped to such low numbers now also does suggest that they will lose an awful lot of seats. I think this is important for the party because losses in 8-15 ballpark might suggest a delusion that it's a temporary blip.
As for possible future leaders I would have thought that Martin or Ahern(Dermot), assuming they keep their seats, would be in a better position than Lenihan, who is still a bit green.

Hootanany

Cowen is inept nuff said

Sand

To be honest Conor, I'm a member of the party who is delighted at the low number of councillors elected as it will allow us a "deadwood purge" like FG got in the 2002 General Election. If candidates were good enough and were talking to enough people, they would have been elected on their merit. Some were good enough and didn't put in the effort, but a lot of the party's sitting councillors hadn't done a tap in 4 1/2 years and it's good enough that they lost their seats.

This is crazy talk - when people elect TDs they should be electing national politicians in the full knowledge that TDs slavishly vote to appease their party. If somebody is doing great work in the local area, then they should be elected to the county council on merit. The idea that county councillors should address issues of national importance is exactly whats wrong with Fianna Fail.

That you dont criticise failed candidates for not being local enough encapsulates the real problem with Fianna Fail. You are a party of a 100 different local fiefdoms as opposed to a national party. Rot in opposition for at least 50 years.

ninty9er

Sand wrote: »

This is crazy talk - when people elect TDs they should be electing national politicians in the full knowledge that TDs slavishly vote to appease their party. If somebody is doing great work in the local area, then they should be elected to the county council on merit. The idea that county councillors should address issues of national importance is exactly whats wrong with Fianna Fail.

That you dont criticise failed candidates for not being local enough encapsulates the real problem with Fianna Fail. You are a party of a 100 different local fiefdoms as opposed to a national party. Rot in opposition for at least 50 years.

Did you read my post at all? I was referring to councillors being local. I made no reference to TDs and didn't make any reference to councillors making national decisions.

Then again, the crackpots will only ever see what they want to:rolleyes:

ninty9er

ninty9er wrote: »

I'm a great believer in the HQ interview process, as it puts someone electable out there in the interest of the party, however this also serves the public, as to be determined electable, you have to have a work ethic. Elsewhere being a sitting councillor got you on a ticket anyway, in some cases quite unfortunately.

I'm not so sure. I suspect lobbying and pull plays a big part in the interview process.

In my area, FF have two sitting Councillors, and they both work in the same area though one lives about 20 miles away. Both have held seats for some time. The interviewers allegedly commented about this issue and even got out a map, and were told politely by one of the candidates to take a hike back to Dublin.

Both were releacted, both upped their vote by a sizeable amount.

The O'Donoghue expenses and his pathetic reply could trigger another fall in support.

You'd just wish someone would stand up for the party itself as distinct from those with control of it, and try and wrest it back from the insanity that is engulfing it.

akaredtop

What I cannot figure out is why people are not getting more angry about the corruption perpetrated by FF for years. They have destroyed our country with their Golden Circles. What we should be doing is storming that hotel in Athlone, where they are having their think-in, pull them all out and string them up with piano wire.Then maybe people would start listening.

ei.sdraob

akaredtop wrote: »

where they are having their think-in

why do I think of this when i hear "FF think-in"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBav72i7I3s

akaredtop

akaredtop wrote: »

What we should be doing is storming that hotel in Athlone, where they are having their think-in, pull them all out and string them up with piano wire.

It would send out a great message around the world and have money pouring in in no time. Just like all those very successful African and South American countries that like the odd good violent coup...

akaredtop

Conor74

Obviously there will be disruption to the economy but I think it would be worth it for our children's futures.

The children must learn of the benefits of hanging by piano wire when things go wrong?

MikeC101

akaredtop wrote: »

Conor74

Obviously there will be disruption to the economy but I think it would be worth it for our children's futures.

Yup, racing in and hanging the people we elected ourselves two years ago, in democratic voting, that'll help ensure our childrens futures are rosy.

On a more serious note though - I'm hopeful that maybe, just maybe, the current situation might mean the next generation of voters will be less inclined to vote on local issues when electing TDs and perhaps take a wider vision for the country as a whole. People have short memories though.

The next general election, may it come sooner rather than later, will be interesting.

akaredtop

Ok lads, maybe that comment was made tongue in cheek,but it is what they deserve. FF have to be removed from office at the next election. Why would anyone vote for them again after what they have caused. We will be paying back for the "Galway tent" for decades to come. Bertie Ahern should really be on trial for what he did to the country.

getcover

Deleted User wrote: »

You'd just wish someone would stand up for the party itself as distinct from those with control of it, and try and wrest it back from the insanity that is engulfing it.

Well why doesn't somebody do that?
(btw, I am presuming you are an FF member?)

Why doesn't somebody call a halt? Stand up at a Cumainn meeting/contact all members/write a letter to the National papers, in order to start a debate, and call on the leadership to do exactly what you are suggesting?

To see the likes of Cullen arrogantly justifying himself is sickening, for one example, and there must be FF people who think the same.
Why are they all so quite?

Seth Brundle

ninty9er wrote: »

To be honest Conor, I'm a member of the party who is delighted at the low number of councillors elected as it will allow us a "deadwood purge" like FG got in the 2002 General Election.

When can we expect such a purge?

getcover wrote: »

Well why doesn't somebody do that?
(btw, I am presuming you are an FF member?)

Why doesn't somebody call a halt? Stand up at a Cumainn meeting/contact all members/write a letter to the National papers, in order to start a debate, and call on the leadership to do exactly what you are suggesting?

To see the likes of Cullen arrogantly justifying himself is sickening, for one example, and there must be FF people who think the same.
Why are they all so quite?

I would presume that most people who are members of FF (or any other party) do not wish to rock the boat in case they get tagged as a troublemaker thus affecting their chances of getting a good seat on the gravy train!

freedom of info

optocynic wrote: »

I fully agree with you, and I am just as baffled at the sheer gall of FF to not shake things up. I live in hope.

Sweary Mary has got to be a gonner!!

But, it is also worth discussing Enda's future in FG.
We all know that they would be a far more daunting opponent with RB at the helm!

as a member of fine gael, i agree with you enda comes across as a weak leader and richard bruton would be a great leader, but it has to be said, enda did revitalise a party that was facing extinction, and after meeting him on several occasions i have to say he is a very decent man, and those who meet him come away thinking the same thing, unfortunately, he isnt going to meet 4 million people

getcover

getcover wrote: »

Why doesn't somebody call a halt? Stand up at a Cumainn meeting/contact all members/write a letter to the National papers, in order to start a debate, and call on the leadership to do exactly what you are suggesting?

I've made plenty of contentious suggestions, none of which get the requisite backing. You can't simply fly solo, you can't do much at all without the support of the local organisation. Writing letters to papers is for very sad people and lunatics. I've raised my concerns with senior party members both locally and nationally and they've nodded their heads and pretty much shrugged their shoulders, as they don't want to stick their head over the parapet which I understand (I'm in a particularly relevant constituency given the troubles of the CC). Sometimes its like being a fan of a football team, you may not like the style of play or the chairman, but the reality is that things will happen whether you like it or not and your say is limited. You just get angry.