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Attitude of the yes campaign

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    #62
    patrickthomas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭patrickthomas


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    I don't know if this is a link to intelligence exactly but take a look at this poll from the atheist & agnostic forum. As sink points out in the thread, "Maybe Atheist & Agnostics have a better bull**** filter then the general population." :D
    Yes|48|80.00%
    No|7|11.67%
    Not going to vote|5|8.33%

    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055670032

    I think it's interesting anyway :)

    edit: and looking at the people who voted no on the poll, I don't think I've ever seen any of them post on the forum except for shooterSF

    Thanks Sam, will take a look at what those godless creatures have to say:)


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    #63
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    skelliser wrote: »
    look, on the day of the vote a certain amount of the electorate turned out.
    The majority of those people voted no.

    End of story.

    Not what you and most of the No voters usually say or imply though is it? So 25%(ish) of electorate voted No, we're all agreed on that then, not anywhere near a majority?


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    #64
    skelliser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    good so the next a NO sider who posts another rant along them lines like



    can I reffer them to you for re-programming?


    what are you on about now? i voted yes ffs!
    you created this whole rant on your own, can you please get back on topic.
    this is the third time iv asked you to get back on topic.


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    #65
    skelliser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    meglome wrote: »
    Not what you and most of the No voters usually say or imply though is it? So 25%(ish) of electorate voted No, we all agreed on that then, not anywhere near a majority?

    I VOTED YES!!!
    and what happened on the day happened on that day! the majority of the electorate that turned out that day voted no, can you not accept that?!


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    #66
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    skelliser wrote: »
    what are you on about now? i voted yes ffs!
    you created this whole rant on your own, can you please get back on topic.
    this is the third time iv asked you to get back on topic.

    Emm am I missing something here. You say you voted Yes but you seem to be promoting a No.


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    #67
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    skelliser wrote: »
    what are you on about now? i voted yes ffs!
    you created this whole rant on your own, can you please get back on topic.
    this is the third time iv asked you to get back on topic.


    as i have shown there are plenty of these posters and this "people have spoken" sentence is born out of ignorance of basic democratic principles


    this is quite on topic btw > see your own post @op
    skelliser wrote: »
    Yes campaigners have been painting an image that all no voters are crazy, stupid and ignorant.
    .


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    #68
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    skelliser wrote: »
    I VOTED YES!!!
    and what happened on the day happened on that day! the majority of the electorate that turned out that day voted no, can you not accept that?!

    Of course I accept that. I'm just pointing out it's not what has been said up to... well right now in fact.


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    #69
    skelliser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    can a mod please comment on this thread, its being dragged off topic onto something about turnouts and electorates.
    Iv asked 3 time for people to get back on topic.


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    #70
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    skelliser wrote: »
    I VOTED YES!!!
    and what happened on the day happened on that day! the majority of the electorate that turned out that day voted no, can you not accept that?!

    we do accept it

    * the people have spoken
    * the matter went back to EU
    * issues relevant to the people like commissioner were addressed
    * we are being asked again to vote on treaty + changes

    in the light of the above events how would you describe someone who is ignorant of the basic democratic process that took place

    and turns around and posts things like


    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055637882&highlight=undemocratic


    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61053565&postcount=12

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61265286&postcount=3

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61266009&postcount=14

    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61902582&postcount=1913


    would you call them Ignorant?


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    #71
    skelliser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    meglome wrote: »
    Of course I accept that. I'm just pointing out it's not what has been said up to... well right now in fact.

    no one on this thread has said anything to that effect so can we please get back on topic

    The attitude of the yes campaigners please!!!


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    #72
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    skelliser wrote: »
    can a mod please comment on this thread, its being dragged off topic onto something about turnouts and electorates.
    Iv asked 3 time for people to get back on topic.

    my post here is on topic as per your own opening post

    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61934758&postcount=67

    im still waiting on an answer


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    #73
    skelliser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    ei.sdraob i goin to report you for trolling


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    #74
    skelliser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    electorates and turnouts have nothing to do with attitudes of the yes campaign which is what this thread is about!


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    #75
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    skelliser wrote: »
    ei.sdraob i goin to report you for trolling

    how am i trolling??

    you posted

    skelliser wrote: »
    Yes campaigners have been painting an image that all no voters are crazy, stupid and ignorant.
    .

    and i posted this which is bang on topic

    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61934808&postcount=70

    to which you haven't replied yet...


    skelliser wrote: »
    electorates and turnouts have nothing to do with attitudes of the yes campaign which is what this thread is about!

    it highlights the lies told by NO side over and over


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    #76
    patrickthomas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭patrickthomas


    meglome wrote: »
    Well maybe the poorer educated people are more easily lied to. Which was a question that was raised about the positioning of the Cóir posters, in more working lass areas.

    Now there's a point, and what if it is true? and the majority of no voters are less educated? What sort of a reflection is that on the people that have the education and influence? The people in power that do not care for the people less well off than themselves, less educated than themselves, a bit late to educate 50% of the voters to.......

    What level do you consider a person should be educated to on order to understand the treaty enough to see that it would be advantageous?


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    #77
    skelliser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    as far as i can see you have jumped on this one sentenence and ran with it

    Originally Posted by Zuiderzee View Post
    over 50% of the Irish electorate said no last time

    your are just being pedantic, it is inaccurate but i beleive Zuiderzee meant to say that the majority of the electorate voted no on that day.
    This is not ignorance.


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    #78
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    skelliser wrote: »
    no one on this thread has said anything to that effect so can we please get back on topic

    The attitude of the yes campaigners please!!!

    They are talking about the attitude of the yes campaigners. You said "Yes campaigners have been painting an image that all no voters are crazy, stupid and ignorant" but the reality is that parts (I would say most) of the no campaigners have been behaving like people who are crazy, stupid and ignorant, such as the ignorance of calling a second referendum undemocratic.

    Should we pretend that these people have a valid point lest we offend them or should we call a spade a spade?


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    #79
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    patrickthomas wrote: »
    What level do you consider a person should be educated to on order to understand the treaty enough to see that it would be advantageous?

    my youngest relative who is after leaving primary school can read and understand this

    http://www.lisbontreaty2009.ie/lisbon_treaty_guide.pdf

    all that one needs is to be able to read, Ireland has a 99% literacy rate

    hell even if one cant read, they can still watch prime time and other debates on tv or listen to radio

    skelliser wrote: »
    as far as i can see you have jumped on this one sentenence and ran with it

    Originally Posted by Zuiderzee View Post
    over 50% of the Irish electorate said no last time

    your are just being pedantic, it is inaccurate but i beleive Zuiderzee meant to say that the majority of the electorate voted no on that day.
    This is not ignorance.

    i am still waiting on an answer to this
    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61934808&postcount=70

    it directly answers your opening post about ignorance in some NO people

    btw i long stopped posting about ZZ slip up in this thread

    /


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    #80
    skelliser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    ei.sdraob wrote: »

    all that one needs is to be able to read, Ireland has a 99% literacy rate

    hell even if one cat read, they can still watch prime time and other debates on tv or listen to radio

    are you saying that patrickthomas and other no voters are stupid and ignorant?
    you are comparing adults to children now, thats fairly ignorant to me


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    #81
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    skelliser wrote: »
    are you saying that patrickthomas is stupid and ignorant?

    no i am not

    no need to spin things

    he asked a question and i answered, anyone who is able to read can read up on the treaty, theres plenty of info
    skelliser wrote: »
    you are comparing adults to children now, thats fairly ignorant to me
    no im not, all i am saying is that an average child of 11 can read and understand the treaty with no secondary education which directly answers the question asked





    and for the 3rd time i am still waiting for an answer from you to this post which directly addresses your opening post

    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61934808&postcount=70

    /


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    #82
    skelliser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    They are talking about the attitude of the yes campaigners. You said "Yes campaigners have been painting an image that all no voters are crazy, stupid and ignorant" but the reality is that parts (I would say most) of the no campaigners have been behaving like people who are crazy, stupid and ignorant, such as the ignorance of calling a second referendum undemocratic.

    Should we pretend that these people have a valid point lest we offend them or should we call a spade a spade?

    its a good question, i think that having a second referendum so soon after the first somewhat undermines democracy but its not undemocratic.


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    #83
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    skelliser wrote: »
    its a good question, i think that having a second referendum so soon after the first somewhat undermines democracy but its not undemocratic.

    The biggest reason for voting no was lack of understanding, mostly because of a shambles of a yes campaign. People have now had two years to learn more about the treaty so this huge reason for rejection (42%) no longer applies

    We have guarantees that issues which effected at least 30% of voters' decision to vote no are no in the treaty and never were. We also got a permanent commissioner*.

    So why does the length of times between referendums matter? What matters is if the reasons for voting no have been addressed


    *although many ignorant no voters refuse to accept that these guarantees are actually guarantees and repeat the lie that they aren't over and over


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    #84
    skelliser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    @ei.sdraob
    i think that having a second referendum so soon after the first somewhat undermines democracy but its not undemocratic.

    to say someone who thinks that a second referendum is ignorant is not correct. They are angry over being asked again. I myself voted yes but am not really happy with voting again, im i ignorant?


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    #85
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    skelliser wrote: »
    ... Yes campaigners have been painting an image that all no voters are crazy, stupid and ignorant...

    discuss..

    Okay, I'll discuss, but very briefly.

    There are many who say that they intend to vote no, and give as their reason some thing or things that have nothing to do with the treaty (most often, some sort of anti-government sentiment). It is a position that I think stupid, but I usually refrain from saying so, because I do not seek to be unpleasant to people, nor do I think it a good way to persuade a person to change his or her opinion.

    I am repeatedly impressed by the patience and good manners shown by some of our more active yes advocates in responding to them.


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    #86
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    skelliser wrote: »
    its a good question, i think that having a second referendum so soon after the first somewhat undermines democracy but its not undemocratic.


    talking of ignorance from the NO side > http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055671361

    the guy admits to making up his mind before reading the treaty and says he will vote no regardless of reading

    how would you politely call a person like that?


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    #87
    patrickthomas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭patrickthomas


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    my youngest relative who is after leaving primary school can read and understand this

    http://www.lisbontreaty2009.ie/lisbon_treaty_guide.pdf

    all that one needs is to be able to read, Ireland has a 99% literacy rate

    hell even if one cant read, they can still watch prime time and other debates on tv or listen to radio/

    The horrifying figure of 24 per cent adult illiteracy was first published in an OECD survey in 1996, and put us close to the bottom of the international league. (In Europe, only Poland scored worse than we did.)

    Sunday Independent September 30 2007
    This is the horrifying reality of modern day Ireland.

    I think this figure will today be fudged and mumbled over and stuttered about and we will be told once again as Haughey did that we are the best educated people in Europe. not true.


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    #88
    skelliser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    The biggest reason for voting no was lack of understanding, mostly because of a shambles of a yes campaign.

    im glad you said this, i think they are making the same mistakes again albeit being more patronising ie celebrities


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    #89
    skelliser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    talking of ignorance from the NO side > http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055671361

    the guy admits to making up his mind before reading the treaty and says he will vote no regardless of reading

    how would you politely call a person like that?

    a troll

    or maybe he just doesnt like the e.u. , i dont know

    i am not responsible for him!


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    #90
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    skelliser wrote: »
    @ei.sdraob
    i think that having a second referendum so soon after the first somewhat undermines democracy but its not undemocratic.

    to say someone who thinks that a second referendum is ignorant is not correct. They are angry over being asked again. I myself voted yes but am not really happy with voting again, im i ignorant?

    they are angry?

    angry that its their democratic duty as a citizien as set out in the constitution to hold a referendum on issues important to the state and that affect the said constitution

    this is not the first time there was a second referendum on same topic

    actually this time its

    same topic + changes made after taking in on board the major concerns of the people

    how does voting on anything undermine democracy?

    the whole foundation of democracy is the right of the citizens to vote, this right is not being taken away!


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    #91
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    patrickthomas wrote: »
    The horrifying figure of 24 per cent adult illiteracy was first published in an OECD survey in 1996, and put us close to the bottom of the international league. (In Europe, only Poland scored worse than we did.)

    Sunday Independent September 30 2007
    This is the horrifying reality of modern day Ireland.

    I think this figure will today be fudged and mumbled over and stuttered about and we will be told once again as Haughey did that we are the best educated people in Europe. not true.


    as i said if someone cant read

    there are plenty of debates, tv shows, radio and internet media to learn about the issues and we had close to 2 years of media debate now

    this is not ancient greece where democracy was invented/first practiced despite the great majority of people being illiterate back then

    being illiterate is not an excuse not to vote, neither does being illiterate stop people from signing contracts or mortgage agreements

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