Does the EU have a secret deal with our government?

meglome

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

They had no choice but to comply just like they are forced to agree with the banning of 100 watt incandescent light bulbs since the 1st of September 2009.

You mean the banning that Ireland requested and fully supported. Imagine using bulbs that use less power and save you more money as they last so long.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I'm sure they have access to anything already with all this post 9/11 international anti terrorism leglislation. The US the Authorities are very quick to access PNR details of anyone landing in the States and records go right back. People have also been hauled in and detained for trivial matters. Who passes on this information???. Chipped passports makes the retention and transferring of this personal information a lot more accessible to global authorities..

So this stuff about the US has to do with Lisbon how exactly? (It doesn't have anything to do with Lisbon just so you know)

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

It is bloody true and the sooner people wake up and realize that the EU is heading down the slippery slope of been a totalitarian police state the better.

But you've still failed to even point out one thing the EU has ever forced any state in the EU to do. NOT ONE SINGLE THING SINCE 1975. The EU have never done anything without negotiation and agreement with each member state. Now forgive me but you're saying things that have never happened and show no signs of happening so I don't think I'll be listening to your fairy tales.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Apart from survey lance laws which I have already mentioned as you should be aware they have just banned the manufacture incandescent light bulbs of up to 100 Watt, they are foolishly replacing these with deadly poisonous low energy CFL Mercury bubs. :eek:

These bulbs are all fine until they get smashed or careless disposed of and they will. God knows what the factory conditions are like in China where most of these bulbs are manufactured.

Were you planning to drink this mercury or anything? Now before I go off and check do these bulbs really have mercury in them because let's face it you love to make stuff up, so is it true?


I can't even get one real reason from you to vote No to Lisbon. You do know the difference between stuff you make up in your own head and reality right?

meglome

Torakx wrote: »

i dont take part in irish politics at all.so i wont try argue the details. i am just going to vote against lisbon to try slow down the process for these bankers and there lackies.

I'll try and explain this to you. Lisbon has nothing whatsoever to do with how our government ****ed up the country. It was nothing to do with the bank bail-out. It has nothing to do with NAMA. What you're saying here is like 'I'm voting No because I don't like the colour of the ballot sheet'. One has nothing to do the the other.

Run_to_da_hills

meglome wrote: »

You mean the banning that Ireland requested and fully supported. Imagine using bulbs that use less power and save you more money as they last so long.

The EU has a habit of hijacking an idea from a member state, enforcing them and then taking all the credit.

This is the case for the Irish incandescent bulb ban. We had similar cases of "hijacking".with some of the data retention laws from the UK. This is where it can be extremely dangerous when a member state like the UK or Ireland becomes a nanny state and the EU follows suit.

With Lisbon the EU will take the BEST of Nannyism from its member States and then enforce its authoritarian rule across the board. I certainly would not like to see Dublin City follow suit like London dotted with ANPR and CCTV ant avery fu*king street corner. :eek:

God help us when Electronic Borders are introduced, an idea that the UK has come up with. :eek:

meglome wrote: »

So this stuff about the US has to do with Lisbon how exactly? (It doesn't have anything to do with Lisbon just so you know)

It has PLENTY got to do with Lisbon. Ever since 9/11 The EU has been following this 'anti terror" mantra with the US, sharing data, ideas etc with its bed buddies. With Lisbon information among member States, individuals, data etc will be shared AND STORED by the EU and handed over to their mates on request.

Lisbon is all about harmonizing the separate individual EU state into one massive super state and dissolving the power AWAY from the smaller individual democratic governments. In other words a dictatorship.

meglome wrote: »

But you've still failed to even point out one thing the EU has ever forced any state in the EU to do. NOT ONE SINGLE THING SINCE 1975. The EU have never done anything without negotiation and agreement with each member state. Now forgive me but you're saying things that have never happened and show no signs of happening so I don't think I'll be listening to your fairy tales.

Already mentioned, leaders of individual member states can be just as bad as the EU in decision making. Ireland included. Our Data retention laws EXCEED that of the EU.

meglome wrote: »

Were you planning to drink this mercury or anything? Now before I go off and check do these bulbs really have mercury in them because let's face it you love to make stuff up, so is it true?

The subject of the deadly use of mercury in light bulbs has been brought up several times in the Green Issues forum and also in the media. Mercury poisoning is set to soar in developing countries that will manufacture these light bulbs by the billions. (It wont be just the EU that will ban them, you can be damn sure their bed buddies the Super State of the US will also follow suit along with the Asian block.

meglome wrote: »

I can't even get one real reason from you to vote No to Lisbon. You do know the difference between stuff you make up in your own head and reality right?

I have a list as long as my arm for a reason to not vote Lisbon and I do not want to go repeating myself.

Most important reason for voting NO is the this EU constitution will set Europe up into a massive dictatorship that will overide our constitution.

K-9

4gun wrote: »

]
It was on an EU report I read some while ago I tried to find it but that might take forever
Instead I got this for you, its an an OECB report on Irish fishing and it worth to the Irish economy Bear in mind that we now share our traditional waters with Spanish and Portuguese boats who have much bigger fleets than we do
But even take the Irish figure alone over a 10 year period you get some big numbers


www.oecd.org/dataoecd/11/9/34429567.pdf


blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brunowaterfield/4679155/On_Dublins_streets_with_irish_antiEU_treaty_protesters/

Doesn't come anywhere near €350 Billion.
The figures below tie in with the figures you provided, so naturally you should have no reason to doubt them.

Scofflaw wrote: »

€350 billion? Even COIR are only alleging €200 billion - and even that is out by a factor of nearly 20.

The real figure is about $12 billion from all Irish waters since 1973, of which the other EU nations have had $6.7 billion, and we've had $3.5 billion - the rest has been snaffled by people like Russia, and Spain before they joined the EU.

You can check the figures here - click on the "Show tabular data" under the graph.

No problem with people objecting to the other EU countries having had more of our fish than us (although our share has been rising since we joined), but the hundreds of billions stuff is just baloney - as is this myth that most of the EU's fish comes from Irish waters. 8% of the EU's catch comes from Irish waters - about 3 times as much comes from UK waters, which is hardly surprising, given their waters are three times as big, and almost exactly the same environmentally. And yes, we fish in their waters - taking about €157m out of them annually, which is nearly as much as we take from our own.

cordially,
Scofflaw

meglome

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The EU has a habit of hijacking an idea from a member state, enforcing them and then taking all the credit.

This is the case for the Irish incandescent bulb ban. We had similar cases of "hijacking".with some of the data retention laws from the UK. This is where it can be extremely dangerous when a member state like the UK or Ireland becomes a nanny state and the EU follows suit.

With Lisbon the EU will take the BEST of Nannyism from its member States and then enforce its authoritarian rule across the board. I certainly would not like to see Dublin City follow suit like London dotted with ANPR and CCTV ant avery fu*king street corner. :eek:

God help us when Electronic Borders are introduced, an idea that the UK has come up with. :eek:
It has PLENTY got to do with Lisbon. Ever since 9/11 The EU has been following this 'anti terror" mantra with the US, sharing data, ideas etc with its bed buddies. With Lisbon information among member States, individuals, data etc will be shared AND STORED by the EU and handed over to their mates on request.

He he he. You're a laugh. All of this is nonsense. You're just throwing stuff out there and hoping something will stick. You still cannot show one thing that the EU has forced any EU country to do and spouting stuff you either cannot prove or has nothing whatsoever to do with the EU won't help that.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Lisbon is all about harmonizing the separate individual EU state into one massive super state and dissolving the power AWAY from the smaller individual democratic governments. In other words a dictatorship.
Already mentioned, leaders of individual member states can be just as bad as the EU in decision making. Ireland included. Our Data retention laws EXCEED that of the EU.

So post the sections in the Lisbon treaty that do these things. It should be easy since it's a legal document, right? Although for some strange reason you don't seem to be able to do that.

If you don't like our data retention laws I suggest you vote for a different party than Fianna Fail. But do I recall you saying you didn't vote? So complain about everything, even things that are not a problem to begin with, do nothing.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The subject of the deadly use of mercury in light bulbs has been brought up several times in the Green Issues forum and also in the media. Mercury poisoning is set to soar in developing countries that will manufacture these light bulbs by the billions. (It wont be just the EU that will ban them, you can be damn sure their bed buddies the Super State of the US will also follow suit along with the Asian block.

Well I'll check on the mercury thing. Unfortunately you make so much stuff up I just can't believe you.

As I believe you know the US and some Asian countries are banning these light bulbs but this has nothing to do the the EU. They decided it would be a good idea, because it is.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I have a list as long as my arm for a reason to not vote Lisbon and I do not want to go repeating myself.

No I mean stuff that's actually in the Lisbon treaty, not stuff you keep making up.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Most important reason for voting NO is the this EU constitution will set Europe up into a massive dictatorship that will overide our constitution.

Okay let's try one more time. Lisbon is not a constitution and never will be. The EU already has a 'de facto' constitution and the Lisbon treaty won't change that fact. Anywhere the EU law takes precedent is because the Irish people have decided to allow this, it we change our minds we can change our constitution again. How simple it is for you to forget that 80% of workers rights legislation came from the EU, those total bastards protecting our workers while giving us money.

Now when you show me the parts of this legal document that turns the EU into a dictatorship I'll happily read it. But since that's not in the Lisbon treaty I think I'll be waiting a long time.

6th

meglome wrote: »

.....

Keep making personal comments and you'll find yourself taking a break from the forum.

Run_to_da_hills

meglome wrote: »

He he he. You're a laugh. All of this is nonsense. You're just throwing stuff out there and hoping something will stick. You still cannot show one thing that the EU has forced any EU country to do and spouting stuff you either cannot prove or has nothing whatsoever to do with the EU won't help that. .

Again "Nonsense" to Pro EU supporters.

meglome wrote: »

If you don't like our data retention laws I suggest you vote for a different party than Fianna Fail. But do I recall you saying you didn't vote?.

Where did you uhear that nonsense, I have voted all my life and the only times I didn't vote was when I lived abroad.

If someone doesn't vote at an election they shouldn't have the right to criticize anyone in power and you would have to agree with me on that.

I never voted for FF in my life, I could see right through them long before the economic collapse. A black cat has black kittens.

The bloated fat cats of financial institutes and the building boom were getting richer and richer through nods, winks and back handers. I know one guy that owes 200 Million on a flopped development at the former Pat Quinn club, How the fu*ck was he allowed to borrow that much on the strength of l of less than 30 million. Who was protecting the national finances? The Government was cheerleeding the Economic housing boom and now we are asked to pay off these FAT CATS billions and sell out our countries constitution to foreign hands at the same time. Its totally disgusting !!!. .

meglome wrote: »

you complain about everything, even things that are not a problem to begin with, do nothing.
.

I complain about a lot of things particularly things that go right up against my grain, one in particular is the whole undemocratic attitude of this EU constitution that has been forced down the troths of Ireland and our EU partners. It STINKS to high heavens.

meglome wrote: »

Well I'll check on the mercury thing. Unfortunately you make so much stuff up I just can't believe you.
.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=41122

meglome wrote: »

As I believe you know the US and some Asian countries are banning these light bulbs but this has nothing to do the the EU. They decided it would be a good idea, because it is.
.

You read me wrong, the US is pushing for these bulbs (To save the whales just like the EU) These are manufactured out in China in sweat shops, cheap labour, poor conditions, the demand in China for Mercury has soared in recent years. Pro CFL bulb promoters say that these bulbs only a minute quantity of mercury, multiply that by millions and thats a demand for a lot of deadly toxins. .

meglome wrote: »

Okay let's try one more time. Lisbon is not a constitution and never will be. The EU already has a 'de facto' constitution and the Lisbon treaty won't change that fact. Anywhere the EU law takes precedent is because the Irish people have decided to allow this, it we change our minds we can change our constitution again. How simple it is for you to forget that 80% of workers rights legislation came from the EU, those total bastards protecting our workers while giving us money.

Now when you show me the parts of this legal document that turns the EU into a dictatorship I'll happily read it. But since that's not in the Lisbon treaty I think I'll be waiting a long time.

The EU can quite easily turn into a dictatorship (Police State) if they draft in new anti terrorism legislation that are within the interests of the EU. just like the US has drafted in quite a number of new federal laws since 9/11.

4gun

meglome wrote: »

I'll try and explain this to you. Lisbon has nothing whatsoever to do with how our government ****ed up the country. It was nothing to do with the bank bail-out. It has nothing to do with NAMA. What you're saying here is like 'I'm voting No because I don't like the colour of the ballot sheet'. One has nothing to do the the other.

well if you feel you can trust our politicians when they tell you what good for Ireland ...vote yes
they have proven time and time again that they are incompetent at running the countries finances
so how could the lisbon vote not reflect the peoples veiw on the government
it's a complete lack of trust.....

Torakx

lol if only the colour of the ballot sheet was all the issues i had with governments

meglome

4gun wrote: »

well if you feel you can trust our politicians when they tell you what good for Ireland ...vote yes

If this was the only reason to vote Yes to Lisbon you'd have a point. But nearly all of our political parties, academics, unions, media, business leaders all want a Yes to Lisbon. Plus we can all go and read it so there's no need to believe anyone. Why don't you go read it?

4gun wrote: »

they have proven time and time again that they are incompetent at running the countries finances

They have indeed. Who did you vote for?

4gun wrote: »

so how could the lisbon vote not reflect the peoples veiw on the government
it's a complete lack of trust.....

I'm sorry but voting against the EU(Lisbon) because we don't like our government is really stupid and pointless. The EU have given us €41 billion and not once has it tired to make us do anything we didn't want. Why are you so against them?

Run_to_da_hills

meglome wrote: »

If this was the only reason to vote Yes to Lisbon you'd have a point. But nearly all of our political parties, academics, unions, media, business leaders all want a Yes to Lisbon. Plus we can all go and read it so there's no need to believe anyone. Why don't you go read it?

Thats a sweeping statement, the reason most politicians, high profile fatcat and business leaders want Lisbon is because it lines their ar*se pockets. Polititians alone get will be due a massive increase. They don't give a damn about the working man :mad:

The independant politicians that are canvassing for NO are the ones that really care about the working man, the Fishermen who got raped by Brussels. and the farmers, those that got made redundant. My own trade union the TEEU recommended its members to vote NO and I would recommend any one who is with them to do the same because they know exactly the way the labour market will go.

Torakx

hehe just watching endgame again
nice refresher course on why its good to vote no.
theres no doubt there are secret deals not only in europe but worldwide.

Run_to_da_hills

Torakx wrote: »

hehe just watching endgame again
nice refresher course on why its good to vote no.
theres no doubt there are secret deals not only in europe but worldwide.

They are all in on it right from the top down. Its Rotten to the core. This recession was rigged right from the beginning to get all the super powers to work together to try and find a "solution" to this problem..

The longer we can hold back the European Constitution the longer we can stall this corrupt global Order.

Torakx

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

They are all in on it right from the top down. Its Rotten to the core. This recession was rigged right from the beginning to get all the super powers to work together to try and find a "solution" to this problem..

The longer we can hold back the European Constitution the longer we can stall this corrupt global Order.

damn right
the only problem is,its going to be one hell of a battle for ireland should we manage to get ourselves out of the eu.
my friend always asks me do i think it will be worth it to try slow the inevitable and to be honest im not sure!if we play follow the leader we could all possibly be in poverty or worse in a matter of 5-10 years.maybe less.
and if we pull out of this corrupt world government we will be left to fight them economically because of that.
but i was watching a program yesterday called holidays in the axis of evil.
and was thinking about irelands future as i watched the situation in cuba now.they have a trade embargo and are poverty stricen trying to fight off the americans and there moles.but they are also recieving support in some ways from russia which i didnt know before.
maybe that is an option for ireland trade and economy wise.
russia might be one of the few big resistances to this thats left if they havent been infiltrated already.

Run_to_da_hills

Torakx wrote: »

damn right
the only problem is,its going to be one hell of a battle for ireland should we manage to get ourselves out of the eu.
my friend always asks me do i think it will be worth it to try slow the inevitable and to be honest im not sure!if we play follow the leader we could all possibly be in poverty or worse in a matter of 5-10 years.maybe less.
and if we pull out of this corrupt world government we will be left to fight them economically because of that.
but i was watching a program yesterday called holidays in the axis of evil.
and was thinking about irelands future as i watched the situation in cuba now.they have a trade embargo and are poverty stricen trying to fight off the americans and there moles.but they are also recieving support in some ways from russia which i didnt know before.
maybe that is an option for ireland trade and economy wise.
russia might be one of the few big resistances to this thats left if they havent been infiltrated already.

You can be damn sure there are millions around the world that are focused on Ireland right now waiting to see the end results of this pact. A NO vote will not only be a victory for Ireland but it will also be a victory for the globe

K-9

Torakx wrote: »

maybe that is an option for ireland trade and economy wise.
russia might be one of the few big resistances to this thats left if they havent been infiltrated already.

YEP, Get Putin in.

meglome

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Thats a sweeping statement, the reason most politicians, high profile fatcat and business leaders want Lisbon is because it lines their ar*se pockets. Polititians alone get will be due a massive increase. They don't give a damn about the working man :mad:

He he he 'a sweeping statement' coming from you. Anyway... for some reason you choose to take a little of what I said. So what about most of our Unions, the labour organisations, the academics and the media? You know the ones that are also advising us to vote Yes? They all getting paid off too?

Now just to point out the facts again for those 'forgetful' ones amongst us. The EU are the very organisation which have brought in 80% of the workers rights legislation in this country. So the 'working man' should be queueing up to vote for this.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The independant politicians that are canvassing for NO are the ones that really care about the working man, the Fishermen who got raped by Brussels. and the farmers, those that got made redundant. My own trade union the TEEU recommended its members to vote NO and I would recommend any one who is with them to do the same because they know exactly the way the labour market will go.

By independent do you mean fringe? I'm constantly amused that people say our farmers are being raped by Brussels when it's the EU that's keeping most of them in business. The EU have given us 41 billion euro, maybe you can explain in detail how they raped us? Because what you say doesn't seem to match the facts (again).

meglome

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

A NO vote will not only be a victory for Ireland but it will also be a victory for the globe

Funny the EU countries voted for pro-Lisbon governments, funny the opinion polls show Lisbon is supported. And I had no idea that other EU countries had asked us to do anything on their behalf. And as of rest of the globe I'm sure there are many countries that would be all for the EU failing, for their own nefarious reasons.

King Mob

For the massive evil global conspiracy that you seem to think it is RtdH, you seem to have a hard time showing anything bad about the EU.
Aside form the ridiculous sweeping rhetoric which you have no intention of backing up with anything resembling facts.

Run_to_da_hills

meglome wrote: »

Funny the EU countries voted for pro-Lisbon governments, funny the opinion polls show Lisbon is supported. And I had no idea that other EU countries had asked us to do anything on their behalf. And as of rest of the globe I'm sure there are many countries that would be all for the EU failing, for their own nefarious reasons.

Supported among coffers, im talking about the man on the street.

4gun

meglome wrote: »

Funny the EU countries voted for pro-Lisbon governments, funny the opinion polls show Lisbon is supported. And I had no idea that other EU countries had asked us to do anything on their behalf. And as of rest of the globe I'm sure there are many countries that would be all for the EU failing, for their own nefarious reasons.

try an dfind a party thats not for it apart from left wing ...why ...whats good for politicians is not always good for the people that voted for them
suppor for lisbon is falling according to RTE news
the countries that were not given a referendum like England but i can't say how strong the no lisbon lobby is in England might be a few hundred or a few million ...take your pick

K-9

4gun wrote: »

try an dfind a party thats not for it apart from left wing ...why ...whats good for politicians is not always good for the people that voted for them

Catholic fundamentalists are also against it.

Run_to_da_hills

meglome wrote: »

Now just to point out the facts again for those 'forgetful' ones amongst us. The EU are the very organization which have brought in 80% of the workers rights legislation in this country. So the 'working man' should be queuing up to vote for this.

I am a qualified tradesman and member of TEEU I have worked in ESB sub contracts for years. four years ago I was told I couldn't get into my normal ESB shutdown contract because a foreign contractor had undercut my employer and took on the job with cheap EU sanctioned labour.

The contractor paid their foreign employees buttons and put them up with full accommodation. I have since yet to get back with this company. This is the type of BS that is pissing myself and the ordinary Irish union worker off. It has also happened with GAMA on NRA contracts with Turkish workers.

This is the type of free European cr*p the ordinary Irish worker dose not want. :mad:

meglome wrote: »

By independent do you mean fringe? .

One that is not just after that slice of the cake.

meglome wrote: »

I'm constantly amused that people say our farmers are being raped by Brussels when it's the EU that's keeping most of them in business. The EU have given us 41 billion euro, maybe you can explain in detail how they raped us? Because what you say doesn't seem to match the facts (again).

41 billion, thats a lot of cash, compared to the amount of free gas and Oil resources that are currently squandered to foreign multi nationals. How much of this 41 Billion has lined the pockets of our national coffers and Fatcats that the working man has never seen sight of.

How much of this 41 Million went to building our national tolled and ETagged motorways. that wll no doubt come in handy for the logistics of this up and coming European super power.

4gun

K-9 wrote: »

Catholic fundamentalists are also against it.

maybe because they know right from wrong

K-9

4gun wrote: »

maybe because they know right from wrong

YEP, Like No divorce.

rtdh wrote:

I am a qualified tradesman and member of TEEU I have worked in ESB sub contracts for years. four years ago I was told I couldn't get into my normal ESB shutdown contract because a foreign contractor had undercut my employer and took on the job with cheap EU sanctioned labour.

Are you seriously quoting the ESB in this case?

The ESB? Seriously?

King Mob

K-9 wrote: »

YEP, Like No divorce.

And the whole kids getting raped thing.

Fundamentalists rarely know right form wrong.

Run_to_da_hills

K-9 wrote: »

YEP, Like No divorce.



Are you seriously quoting the ESB in this case?

The ESB? Seriously?

YES seriously. ESB is just one of many Irish groups that have shafted the Irish working man using EU sanctioned regulations.

There is a lot of tradesmen that have served their time in this country and worked all their lives here only to be told that they have no work left because their main contractor has taken on cheap EU sanctioned sub contractors. Sore point, and I can see why the TEEU want a NO Vote for this European Constitution.

K-9

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

YES seriously. ESB is just one of many Irish groups that have shafted the Irish working man using EU sanctioned regulations.

There is a lot of tradesmen that have served their time in this country and worked all their lives here only to be told that they have no work left because their main contractor has taken on cheap EU sanctioned sub contractors. Sore point, and I can see why the TEEU want a NO Vote for this European Constitution.

The ESB?

Brilliant, you blame the EU in one breath and then in a totally different breath, blame them again.

Along with Eircom and the old Telecom Eireann, the 2 most cossetted, inefficient, protected and monopolised semi state groups in the history of this state.

Nothing to do with the EU, just Govt. and Unions fleecing this state.

Give me the average wage of ESB workers over the last 10 years or so RTDH. You should know!

Run_to_da_hills

K-9 wrote: »

The ESB?

Brilliant, you blame the EU in one breath and then in a totally different breath, blame them again.

Along with Eircom and the old Telecom Eireann, the 2 most cossetted, inefficient, protected and monopolised semi state groups in the history of this state.

Nothing to do with the EU, just Govt. and Unions fleecing this state.

Give me the average wage of ESB workers over the last 10 years or so RTDH. You should know!

Inefficient they were, they still provided us with a service and kept the Irish worker in a Job. The real Inefficiencies were the Fatcats and beurocrats that ran them the ordinary worker which they use as the scape goats. The trend now is to become as efficient as possible even if it involves laying off staff handing the work out to foreign tender if its cost effective.

It would not surprise me in the least if much of the Irish civil service telesales will be sub contracted abroad in the near future. The EU has not helped Ireland one bit in this aspect. You would have expected them to step in and prevent the likes of this.

The EU has destroyed this country in the last ten years by opening the floodgates of foreign immigration. We are paying dearly for it now. There was walk in job application in a Dublin Spar recently, the que was half the length of Stephens Green, most of the applicants were non Irish. :eek:

I laugh when I see Fianna Fail posters stating that Lisbon will help us with Jobs. It has destroyed us with cheap labour and unemployed Irish people will not buy this one.

King Mob

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The EU has destroyed this country in the last ten years by opening the floodgates of foreign immigration. We are paying dearly for it now. There was walk in job application in a Dublin Spar recently, the que was half the length of Stephens Green, most of the applicants were non Irish. :eek:

I laugh when I see Fianna Fail posters stating that Lisbon will help us with Jobs. It has destroyed us with cheap labour and unemployed Irish people will not buy this one.

The EU were forcing employers to hire Polish workers over Irish ones?
The EU forced these workers to accept lower pay than Irish workers?

But yea immigration is bad, the Irish would never do anything like that.

What was that you were saying about scapegoats?

Run_to_da_hills

King Mob wrote: »

The EU were forcing employers to hire Polish workers over Irish ones?
The EU forced these workers to accept lower pay than Irish workers?

EU regulation allowed foreign contractors into Shannon bridge offering their foreign employees pittance to what Irish workers would have been paid. I already mentioned Monepoint and Gama.

King Mob wrote: »

But yea immigration is bad, the Irish would never do anything like that.

Agree, definitely a bad thing if not checked.

K-9

At least you are honest.

You see what you are falling for is classic FF and Trade Union propaganda, blame the EU and everybody bloody else except ourselves.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Inefficient they were, they still provided us with a service and kept the Irish worker in a Job. The real Inefficiencies were the Fatcats and beurocrats that ran them the ordinary worker which they use as the scape goats.

And the Unions. The average was in the ESB was €75,000 in 08.

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

The trend now is to become as efficient as possible even if it involves laying off staff handing the work out to foreign tender if its cost effective.

Well if their own staff where cheaper to employ, it wouldn't go out.

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

It would not surprise me in the least if much of the Irish civil service telesales will be sub contracted abroad in the near future. The EU has not helped Ireland one bit in this aspect. You would have expected them to step in and prevent the likes of this.

That really is up to your Govt. and your Union.

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

The EU has destroyed this country in the last ten years by opening the floodgates of foreign immigration.

Nope, FF did. If they had of availed of the derogation on opening our borders like they did in 07 with Bulgaria and Romania, we would be opening around about now. FF fueled the property boom that brought the immigrants, not the EU.

Run_to_da_Hills wrote:

We are paying dearly for it now. There was walk in job application in a Dublin Spar recently, the que was half the length of Stephens Green, most of the applicants were non Irish. :eek:

Why did more Irish not apply? The ould Dole to handy or the jobs beneath them? Why so few Irish?

Run_to_da_Hiils wrote:

I laugh when I see Fianna Fail posters stating that Lisbon will help us with Jobs. It has destroyed us with cheap labour and unemployed Irish people will not buy this one.

Stop blaming the EU and immigrants for FF, Unions and our greed.

meglome

K-9 wrote: »

At least you are honest.

You see what you are falling for is classic FF and Trade Union propaganda, blame the EU and everybody bloody else except ourselves.


And the Unions. The average was in the ESB was €75,000 in 08.


Well if their own staff where cheaper to employ, it wouldn't go out.

That really is up to your Govt. and your Union.

Nope, FF did. If they had of availed of the derogation on opening our borders like they did in 07 with Bulgaria and Romania, we would be opening around about now. FF fueled the property boom that brought the immigrants, not the EU.

Why did more Irish not apply? The ould Dole to handy or the jobs beneath them? Why so few Irish?

Stop blaming the EU and immigrants for FF, Unions and our greed.

That is really spot on k-9. I'm sick of people in this country blaming the EU when it suits them. We ****ed up, we got greedy, we are to blame.

And I'm still waiting for just one thing the EU has forced any EU country to do.

Run_to_da_hills

meglome wrote: »

That is really spot on k-9. I'm sick of people in this country blaming the EU when it suits them. We ****ed up, we got greedy, we are to blame.

And I'm still waiting for just one thing the EU has forced any EU country to do.

They are forcing us to have a second referendum on Lisbon. :mad:

4gun

King Mob wrote: »

And the whole kids getting raped thing.
FF just raped the whole country, we dont hear you complaining... why?...

Fundamentalists rarely know right form wrong.

and your an expert i suppose
must be great being the only perfect human in the world

Torakx

hehe there are loads of perfect irish people!
they will follow our great leaders into the mouth of the lion.
armed with a television and newspaper.
pew pew

King Mob

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

They are forcing us to have a second referendum on Lisbon. :mad:

Really?

Do you not read anything critical of your position?
Cause if you actually did you'd know this is completely false.

The EU aren't forcing us to do ****.

Our elected government is having another referendum all within our laws.

Torakx

King Mob wrote: »

Really?

Do you not read anything critical of your position?
Cause if you actually did you'd know this is completely false.

The EU aren't forcing us to do ****.

Our elected government is having another referendum all within our laws.

and who owns our government? the people? or the banks?
please be honest if you try to answer this i want to know not what facts you have just what you really feel in this instance.
for me this shouldnt even need to be posed as a question.

King Mob

Torakx wrote: »

and who owns our government? the people? or the banks?
please be honest if you try to answer this i want to know not what facts you have just what you really feel in this instance.
for me this shouldnt even need to be posed as a question.

Well because I don't buy into bat**** insane conspiracy theories with no evidence, I'm going to say the people elect the government.

Which part of the Lisbon treaty favours bankers exactly?

Or have you any actual evidence that the evil shadowy bankers are forcing the second referendum?

K-9

Torakx wrote: »

hehe there are loads of perfect irish people!
they will follow our great leaders into the mouth of the lion.
armed with a television and newspaper.
pew pew

I will not be scare mongered by vested interest groups like Christian Fundamentalists, Republican Garda murderers or neo Con Americans.

4gun

King Mob wrote: »

Really?

Do you not read anything critical of your position?
Cause if you actually did you'd know this is completely false.

The EU aren't forcing us to do ****.

Our elected government is having another referendum all within our laws.

had the shoe been on the other foot ,would we have a second referendum for a no vote... i'm sure

King Mob

4gun wrote: »

had the shoe been on the other foot ,would we have a second referendum for a no vote... i'm sure

When you're haggling the price for a car, do you continue to haggle after you've both reached an agreement?

It may shock you but negotiation like this is kinda an important part of international relations.

Torakx

no i personally dont have any evidence that our leaders are accepting money through brown evelope type deals.doesnt mean it didnt happen and i think you can agree on that at least.that the possibility is certainly there.

but i think you are being a little naive to only trust facts alone and not look at the bigger picture.
everything happening in the world is not just about ireland and europe.
sometimes facts we have are wrong.what makes this unbelievable to many is that these blow everything you thought you knew right out of the water and lands you in a world where you as a citizen are totally vunerable to some dangerous elements you personally cannot hope to fight against.at least not as you have been,and been taken out of this comfort zone imo causes a knee jerk reaction.i understand it ofc i lived it for many years of my life.

you can say for a fact that the irish gov is totally honest maybe.
and if i fail to prove you wrong with real evidence and facts that you are right?
it just means i did not have the evidence.does not mean i am wrong.and i believe taking a step back might shed more light on these topics.

do you accept that the obama administration is doing the best it can for its people?
because that same system is heading for europe.
later you will find out yourself in facts that it is all connected.
this is why slowly and slowly more gov officials are calling for a "new world order" because what us crazy people have been spouting is coming true.
we know it,they know. you obviously dont yet.
and the sooner they make a need for it the sooner you will jump through the hoop.because god forbid you believe the loonies and actually stop midstep and ask them "what are you really doing?"

4gun

King Mob wrote: »

When you're haggling the price for a car, do you continue to haggle after you've both reached an agreement?
isn' this what s happening at the moment
It may shock you but negotiation like this is kinda an important part of international relations.

so we should just go along to please the other nations says a lot about your opionions just, go with the flow are they really your own?

constance tench

the drafting of the treaty was an (informal) acceptance of the treaty with the intent to ratify..

an agreement was in place..
the government chose to accept conditionally (guarantees) which stays within the rules..then the legal ball was in the EU court...
the EU had to accept, or accept conditionally.. ball is back to IRE

it seems like it's a done deal..

Torakx

King Mob wrote: »

When you're haggling the price for a car, do you continue to haggle after you've both reached an agreement?

It may shock you but negotiation like this is kinda an important part of international relations.

lol i dont think the irish republic haggled over the price of the car, i think we just didnt want to pay for it! when you tell a salesman no sometimes it isnt haggling.sometimes they are trying to sell you a total piece of crap and you can tie ribbons on it the next time you push it under peoples nose but down in its foundations its a piece of crap still.

King Mob

Torakx wrote: »

no i personally dont have any evidence that our leaders are accepting money through brown evelope type deals.doesnt mean it didnt happen and i think you can agree on that at least.that the possibility is certainly there.

but i think you are being a little naive to only trust facts alone and not look at the bigger picture.
everything happening in the world is not just about ireland and europe.
sometimes facts we have are wrong.what makes this unbelievable to many is that these blow everything you thought you knew right out of the water and lands you in a world where you as a citizen are totally vunerable to some dangerous elements you personally cannot hope to fight against.at least not as you have been,and been taken out of this comfort zone imo causes a knee jerk reaction.i understand it ofc i lived it for many years of my life.

you can say for a fact that the irish gov is totally honest maybe.
and if i fail to prove you wrong with real evidence and facts that you are right?
it just means i did not have the evidence.does not mean i am wrong.and i believe taking a step back might shed more light on these topics.

do you accept that the obama administration is doing the best it can for its people?
because that same system is heading for europe.
later you will find out yourself in facts that it is all connected.
this is why slowly and slowly more gov officials are calling for a "new world order" because what us crazy people have been spouting is coming true.
we know it,they know. you obviously dont yet.
and the sooner they make a need for it the sooner you will jump through the hoop.because god forbid you believe the loonies and actually stop midstep and ask them "what are you really doing?"

So what you're saying is that I shouldn't base my decision on this treaty on solid verifiable facts but rather on the fear that there might be a vast global conspiracy?

How is this not scaremongering exactly?

Torakx

K-9 wrote: »

I will not be scare mongered by vested interest groups like Christian Fundamentalists, Republican Garda murderers or neo Con Americans.

lol i hope you are not calling me any of those.
i am simply an individual i have no ties to any organisation as yet.
its too dangerous imo to side with anyone until a proper solution to this corruption is found.all i can do is try my best to slow the progress of these superstates and banks.

King Mob

Torakx wrote: »

lol i dont think the irish republic haggled over the price of the car, i think we just didnt want to pay for it! when you tell a salesman no sometimes it isnt haggling.sometimes they are trying to sell you a total piece of crap and you can tie ribbons on it the next time you push it under peoples nose but down in its foundations its a piece of crap still.

Except the main reasons people voted no have been addressed.
This was the negotiation part.

And in the length of this thread and others no one has been able to actually point out anything bad in the Lisbon Treaty.

What makes it a piece of crap exactly?

K-9

Torakx wrote: »

lol i hope you are not calling me any of those.
i am simply an individual i have no ties to any organisation as yet.
its too dangerous imo to side with anyone until a proper solution to this corruption is found.all i can do is try my best to slow the progress of these superstates and banks.

Well maybe if you stop calling Yes voters things, you will not be called anything.