Hellfire War Games (Airsoft In Bray)

Golf Mike 2

Hi All

I was not there on Sunday last but it is obvious that there were some issues that need to be addressed. It is also obvious that there are some people making hay from these issues on this thread - it is also evident that this occurs regularly on other threads.

Firstly, it was made very clear to persons who were "complaining" that they should contact the shop in order to discuss the issues and if deemed appropriate a financial arrangement could have been reached.

They failed to do so.

We have allowed a reasonable period of time for you to do so.

Instead they have preferred to use this thread to bluster their own opinions at the expense of those who volunteer their time on a Sunday in all weather. I would also refer those people who have seen to make such criticism without giving any benefit of doubt to these volunteers to the many and frequent plaudits for their management and behaviour throughout this thread.

In essence its very easy to attack the good character of the Marshals whilst hiding behind a pseudonym whilst not taking the problem to the source.

Furthermore the use of terms such as "smiling idiot" are slanderous and defamatory and I would strongly urge the publisher of such comments to retract these or face possible legal remedies.

It is obvious from the diatribe spewed from certain individuals on this thread and indeed many other threads that they have neither the maturity nor temperament to play Airsoft games. I for one could care less if they ever showed up at Hellfire again.

As for the substantive issues such as the Chrono I will gladly pass them on to the management of the site and will add any assistance that I can to ensure the enjoyment and safety of all who attend the site.

GM2

Lonew0lf

Golf Mike 2 wrote: »

Hi All

I was not there on Sunday last but it is obvious that there were some issues that need to be addressed. It is also obvious that there are some people making hay from these issues on this thread - it is also evident that this occurs regularly on other threads.

Firstly, it was made very clear to persons who were "complaining" that they should contact the shop in order to discuss the issues and if deemed appropriate a financial arrangement could have been reached.

They failed to do so.

We have allowed a reasonable period of time for you to do so.

Instead they have preferred to use this thread to bluster their own opinions at the expense of those who volunteer their time on a Sunday in all weather. I would also refer those people who have seen to make such criticism without giving any benefit of doubt to these volunteers to the many and frequent plaudits for their management and behaviour throughout this thread.

In essence its very easy to attack the good character of the Marshals whilst hiding behind a pseudonym whilst not taking the problem to the source.

Furthermore the use of terms such as "smiling idiot" are slanderous and defamatory and I would strongly urge the publisher of such comments to retract these or face possible legal remedies.

It is obvious from the diatribe spewed from certain individuals on this thread and indeed many other threads that they have neither the maturity nor temperament to play Airsoft games. I for one could care less if they ever showed up at Hellfire again.

As for the substantive issues such as the Chrono I will gladly pass them on to the management of the site and will add any assistance that I can to ensure the enjoyment and safety of all who attend the site.

GM2

Haven't the time or energy to dredge through the litany of spelling/grammar mistakes here. Are the shop and venue not two separate business entities?

Leaving my own opinions (Lonew0lf = David Doran @ Mt. Joy Square, phone number available upon request) aside, it is blatantly obvious that my opinions and "complaints" as you put it, are shared by many.

Sorry if I'm the voice of the silent, but there are issues, issues that have gone unresolved and will probably not be addressed any time soon. I'll be voting with my feet too...

p.s. "remedies" are a cure, "ramifications" are a consequence, that one is free...:cool:

p.p.s. sesquipedalian comes to mind. Don't use €10 words when 0.50c word will suffice.

p.p.p.s. Does that make me a sesquipedalian?:D

Golf Mike 2

Lonew0lf wrote: »

Haven't the time or energy to dredge through the litany of spelling mistakes here. Are the shop and venue not two separate business entities?

Leaving my own opinions (Lonew0lf = David Doran @ Mt. Joy Square, phone number available upon request) aside, it is blatantly obvious that my opinions and "complaints" as you put it, are shared by many.

Sorry if I'm the voice of the silent, but there are issues, issues that have gone unresolved and will probably not be addressed any time soon. I'll be voting with my feet too...

p.s. "remedies" are a cure, "ramifications" are a consequence, that one is free...:cool:

p.p.s. sesquipedalian comes to mind. Don't use €10 words when 0.50c word will suffice.

p.p.p.s. Does that make me a sesquipedalian?:D

You're response says it all. You are correct in that the shop is separate but as the people who you've chosen to attack aren't even in the country something had to be said.

You were instructed to call the shop as we have the financial wherewithal to make reimbursements if such are deemed necessary.

The fact is that you didn't have the bottle to call the shop to discuss your complaints but instead chose to showboat on this site speaks miles about you.

"Remedy" if you most is legal nomenclature.

You're a troll and I'm not going to waste anymore time with childish semantics.

Lonew0lf

must*

Okay, fair enough I am a troll etc. etc. if you find time could you please address all the other posters' concerns regarding the site?

Lonew0lf

Golf Mike 2 wrote: »

You're response says it all. You are correct in that the shop is separate but as the people who you've chosen to attack aren't even in the country something had to be said.

You were instructed to call the shop as we have the financial wherewithal to make reimbursements if such are deemed necessary.

The fact is that you didn't have the bottle to call the shop to discuss your complaints but instead chose to showboat on this site speaks miles about you.

"Remedy" if you most is legal nomenclature.

You're a troll and I'm not going to waste anymore time with childish semantics.

Nice way of dealing with customers who raise complaints/concerns.

Queen of hearts anybody? "Off with his head..."

Golf Mike 2

Lonew0lf wrote: »

must*

Okay, fair enough I am a troll etc. etc. if you find time could you please address all the other posters' concerns regarding the site?

I think I covered that in first response. I can tell you that a new Chronograph has been ordered and i have already expressed my dissatisfaction with the level complaints coming back from this week's gaming.

I reiterate I will do my utmost to make sure that all of the substantive issues raised are addressed. I'm pretty sure that the site operators are not in the business of commercial suicide.

Enjoyable and safe gaming at Hellfire and indeed all sites is what everyone wants. As a retailer a healthy sport means healthy business, so it is definitely in my interest to make sure that the bar is raised constantly.

I know that Peter really does appreciate all comments made both positive and negative. He became a Daddy again this week so he has been indisposed.

BUT please remember Airsoft is a game of honour. It is incumbent on all players to play by the rules and to be sports people. Marshals can't cover every square inch of every part of the site during gaming. It calls for calm heads to resolve disputes.

I will also make this promise to be present to Marshal this Sunday until lunchtime (after which I have to go to another engagement) and see for myself first hand what is happening on site.

As they say in the RAF, per ardua ad astra!

GM2

Lonew0lf

Thank you (plural not singular)

p.s. my issues were raised about this week only, but other posts were about previous weeks. Not nitpicking here but you're doing so well with your apology...

Drachnien

Golf Mike 2 wrote: »

Hi All

I was not there on Sunday last but it is obvious that there were some issues that need to be addressed. It is also obvious that there are some people making hay from these issues on this thread - it is also evident that this occurs regularly on other threads.

Firstly, it was made very clear to persons who were "complaining" that they should contact the shop in order to discuss the issues and if deemed appropriate a financial arrangement could have been reached.

They failed to do so.

We have allowed a reasonable period of time for you to do so.

Instead they have preferred to use this thread to bluster their own opinions at the expense of those who volunteer their time on a Sunday in all weather. I would also refer those people who have seen to make such criticism without giving any benefit of doubt to these volunteers to the many and frequent plaudits for their management and behaviour throughout this thread.

In essence its very easy to attack the good character of the Marshals whilst hiding behind a pseudonym whilst not taking the problem to the source.

Furthermore the use of terms such as "smiling idiot" are slanderous and defamatory and I would strongly urge the publisher of such comments to retract these or face possible legal remedies.

It is obvious from the diatribe spewed from certain individuals on this thread and indeed many other threads that they have neither the maturity nor temperament to play Airsoft games. I for one could care less if they ever showed up at Hellfire again.

As for the substantive issues such as the Chrono I will gladly pass them on to the management of the site and will add any assistance that I can to ensure the enjoyment and safety of all who attend the site.

GM2

I have to say ... I find this honestly insulting. I thought the way i had explained the points and issues was fair and balanced (and was pretty much how i explained it to the martial on the day). Thank you for that.

Golf Mike 2 wrote: »

I think I covered that in first response. I can tell you that a new Chronograph has been ordered and i have already expressed my dissatisfaction with the level complaints coming back from this week's gaming.

I reiterate I will do my utmost to make sure that all of the substantive issues raised are addressed. I'm pretty sure that the site operators are not in the business of commercial suicide.

Enjoyable and safe gaming at Hellfire and indeed all sites is what everyone wants. As a retailer a healthy sport means healthy business, so it is definitely in my interest to make sure that the bar is raised constantly.

I know that Peter really does appreciate all comments made both positive and negative. He became a Daddy again this week so he has been indisposed.

BUT please remember Airsoft is a game of honour. It is incumbent on all players to play by the rules and to be sports people. Marshals can't cover every square inch of every part of the site during gaming. It calls for calm heads to resolve disputes.

I will also make this promise to be present to Marshal this Sunday until lunchtime (after which I have to go to another engagement) and see for myself first hand what is happening on site.

As they say in the RAF, per ardua ad astra!

GM2

This is a far more reasonable response, but to me personally it has been completely undermined by the earlier one.

Will

Edit after calming down a bit: I can understand how the comments made here can seem like an attack and put someone on the defensive, I personally ment no disrespect to the staff who run this site, It is up to the players themselves to play by the rules. The issues experienced did genuinely put myself off the site but as I said originally I like the site it's self and the games that were had. I would like to appologise if my comments came across as an attack but the issues I stated in my original post were experienced by me personally and your initial response came across as incredibly insulting and uncaring.

Golf Mike 2

Hi Will

Thank you for your post. My initial response was not directed at you or the other genuine contributors to the thread. Your comments will always be welcome and treated with respect.

If you feel insulted by anything that I have posted, that certainly was not my intention and I apologise unreservedly. I would also extend that apology to any other genuine Airsofters who took time and thought to post a response and who may have been offended.

Again your contributions will always be welcome and indeed necessary to the positive development of the Airsoft sport in Ireland.

GM2

Drachnien

Thanks for that, It means a lot.

Lonew0lf

To be honest I was certain that I had posted an honest and genuine complaint in my original post. I didn't resort to name calling or "attack" anybody, I certainly didn't make any wild or outlandish accusations about the site. I simply posted what I felt about the day, and others agreed, about that day and previous days.

It wasn't my intention to cause such an issue. The way I had figured it would pan out was, I outlined my numerous complaints, the owners/operators would address them in a civil manner and appreciate my feedback. I would expect that on other sites customers wouldn't need to "have the bottle" to raise a complaint or seek a refund?

And this is a public forum so expressions made by users can't be regarded as "showboating" can they?

Anyway now that tempers have settled, I'll leave it to the players feedback to gauge the improvements made after these posts.

Golf Mike 2

Lonew0lf wrote: »

To be honest I was certain that I had posted an honest and genuine complaint in my original post. I didn't resort to name calling or "attack" anybody, I certainly didn't make any wild or outlandish accusations about the site. I simply posted what I felt about the day, and others agreed, about that day and previous days.

It wasn't my intention to cause such an issue. The way I had figured it would pan out was, I outlined my numerous complaints, the owners/operators would address them in a civil manner and appreciate my feedback. I would expect that on other sites customers wouldn't need to "have the bottle" to raise a complaint or seek a refund?

And this is a public forum so expressions made by users can't be regarded as "showboating" can they?

Anyway now that tempers have settled, I'll leave it to the players feedback to gauge the improvements made after these posts.

I'm sure they'll appreciate that. To be fair it wasn't you who was name calling. Whatever disagreement you and I may have had, I'm sure you will agree that that type of carry on is unacceptable.

You did have genuine issues and they will be addressed. Let's just leave it at that.

I'll be in the shop tomorrow and Hellfire on Sunday. Peter who is responsible for the site, as I stated earlier, is indisposed as his wife has just given birth to a baby boy. He will have read the thread and will also be hearing feedback from the Marshals and will act accordingly in due course.

The weather looks like it will hold so get out there this weekend.

GM2

Gatling

is there games running on saturday or is it sunday only

Golf Mike 2

Hi Gatling

It's Sunday only I'm afraid at the moment. Would you like to book in?

GM2

Gatling

DOHHH ehh sundays a no no , my other halfs first mothers day id be battered if i even thought about it ,;)

can i book in for the following sunday

SNAKEDOC

Hopefully tempers have calmed down a bit now. Glad to hear that our voices have been heard. the one improvement if I was to recommend one is that marshals get a bit more involved in the games. a marshal been more active by patrolling around the gaming area and also cheater checking. we were told that marshals would do this but I saw no evidence of this last week. if marshals are saying that they will be doing something they should try and follow through with it. I have seen people told to sit out games before and it has a positive outcome on the rest of the game. however like others I will be voting with my feet and not visiting the site soon. thank you all for hearing our concerns.

Daz1214

i cant comment on sunday gone but from experience, we have never had a bad day in hellfire and we are there regular enough..the chrono is an issue but its being addressed so thats positive..id say to people that anyone can have a bad day on any site, its happened me, even in our home place but dont knock it on one experience, give the benefit of the doubt

Golf Mike 2

SNAKEDOC wrote: »

Hopefully tempers have calmed down a bit now. Glad to hear that our voices have been heard. the one improvement if I was to recommend one is that marshals get a bit more involved in the games. a marshal been more active by patrolling around the gaming area and also cheater checking. we were told that marshals would do this but I saw no evidence of this last week. if marshals are saying that they will be doing something they should try and follow through with it. I have seen people told to sit out games before and it has a positive outcome on the rest of the game. however like others I will be voting with my feet and not visiting the site soon. thank you all for hearing our concerns.

Snakedoc, you were the one name calling on this thread. I would strongly urge that you at least check your own actions before you start preaching to others. If that is the way you behave in general I don't think you would find yourself welcome at many sites. Furthermore what you said could have legal consequences for you.

SNAKEDOC

Only if i was lying which i was not. i complained to a marshal who just shrugged and gave a smile. what do i take from that. i felt very disheartened that i gave my money to the site but the staff were not very helpful. they are after all staff and there to help customers which after paying 25 euro i was. i didn't ask for a refund i just wanted to play a proper game of airsoft but the marshals were content chatting amongst themselves while we tried to marshal ourselves by calling games finished and whatnot. please do not come on boards and threaten me with legal action. if you want to go ahead my name is Anthony Lennon if you want my number ask. if this is how staff from hellfire act i will not be back and i would say a few others won't be either. good day to you i won't try and be civil again.

Golf Mike 2

SNAKEDOC wrote: »

Only if i was lying which i was not. i complained to a marshal who just shrugged and gave a smile. what do i take from that. i felt very disheartened that i gave my money to the site but the staff were not very helpful. they are after all staff and there to help customers which after paying 25 euro i was. i didn't ask for a refund i just wanted to play a proper game of airsoft but the marshals were content chatting amongst themselves while we tried to marshal ourselves by calling games finished and whatnot. please do not come on boards and threaten me with legal action. if you want to go ahead my name is Anthony Lennon if you want my number ask. if this is how staff from hellfire act i will not be back and i would say a few others won't be either. good day to you i won't try and be civil again.

I would again refer you to my previous comment and I would suggest you read it thoroughly. I have not threatened you with legal action but you have quite definitely exposed yourself to it. Referring to a person or persons in writing as a "smiling idiot" is defamatory, it is a civil tort and could never be defended in a Court as fair comment. Anthony I will gladly pass your name on to the potential Plaintiffs to see if they would like to proceed with any action.

Apart from that it just ain't in the spirit of the game. Make your point but please don't drag everything down with you.

SNAKEDOC

i made my point now please stop with the legal jargon. it's giving me a headache

Golf Mike 2

SNAKEDOC wrote: »

i made my point now please stop with the legal jargon. it's giving me a headache

Suit yourself, you have been forewarned

Lonew0lf

Would a "smiling idiot" be considered defamation anyway? It hardly reduces the standing of that person in the minds of right thinking people. It would amount to no more than verbal abuse at best and would be considered a criminal and not civil offense?

Anyway defamation of character is a rich man's game, and a boogeyman term for striking fear into the hearts of us mere mortals. No judge in his right mind would hear a case on someone being called a "smiling idiot".

Now if accusations were made that someone was a thief, or a pedophile or a drug dealer then that would surely be defamation of character as it would cause a person to loose credibility in the eye's of right thinking people.

But still Libel courts are like your local Ferrari dealerships, open to everyone but only the wealthy can avail of its wares.

Golf Mike 2

Lonew0lf wrote: »

Would a "smiling idiot" be considered defamation anyway? It hardly reduces the standing of that person in the minds of right thinking people. It would amount to no more than verbal abuse at best and would be considered a criminal and not civil offense?

Anyway defamation of character is a rich man's game, and a boogeyman term for striking fear into the hearts of us mere mortals. No judge in his right mind would hear a case on someone being called a "smiling idiot".

Now if accusations were made that someone was a thief, or a pedophile or a drug dealer then that would surely be defamation of character as it would cause a person to loose credibility in the eye's of right thinking people.

But still Libel courts are like your local Ferrari dealerships, open to everyone but only the wealthy can avail of its wares.

Thanks Lonewolf for your input, but there have been some large payouts to mere mortals recently over seemingly harmless comments made about them on blogs and fora. It would seem that those who preside over such matters are trying to make a point. The precedent is there. After that it has nothing to do with me.

Shadow285

Hi guys,
With regard to cheater checking on site. It is very difficult to cheater check. Generally there is alot of action spread across all the zones you are playing in, this means, say you cheater check a person on the blue team, you have given the red team an advantage as when your playing in the game and your advancing and gaining ground you can clearly see where the team is defending from so you have an idea where would be best to take cover. Now if your in cover and you get hit, and your an honest player, on an honest team and you take the hit you have lost the ground you have worked to gain this is a problem also because the games are timed meaning you have lost time in achieving the objective also. Say again you cheater check someone in a game who has advanced a bit and is in cover again but hasnt been seen by the opposing team, he again takes the hit and stands up and goes to walk to the respawn by the time the marshal has told him its ok he was just being checked he has lost the advantage of surprise. How many times have you wondered how an opposing player got so close without you noticing?? it happens!! If you think about it really it is difficult to cheater check without swinging the balance of the game. As I said before in hellfire this is particularly difficult as the way some of the zones (the village, speedball, the castle) are played they rely heavily on advancing swinging the game is not fair and in my opinion cheater checking penalizes honest players as much if not more so than the few dishonest ones!!

Having been up at the site numerous times both playing and marshaling I understand how frustrating it is to be playing and think players are not taking their hits. In reality most of the time your just not hitting them. There have been several times when players have called out to keep an eye on a player who they think there hitting and in fact they are simply flying by the player who is in cover!! Also marshals are only human they don't have xray, binocular vision or built in lie dectectors so because they have been told of a player not taking his hit he cannot just throw them off on someones say so (or their friends all say so too). At the end of the day its all just game there will always be a few who do not play honestly the marshals do their best to prevent this but they can only do so much

Golf Mike 2

Hi Shadow

Many thanks for that. I know I'm shooting myself in the foot but the main allegation here is that the marshals, in particular, last sunday were not paying attention to the game at all.

There were also complaints about over kills.

I agree with everything you say and I am going up on sunday myself to marshal the games and if necessary marshal the marshals.

GM2

Gatling

Check your pm's GM2

o1s1n

Golf Mike 2 wrote: »

Snakedoc, you were the one name calling on this thread. I would strongly urge that you at least check your own actions before you start preaching to others. If that is the way you behave in general I don't think you would find yourself welcome at many sites. Furthermore what you said could have legal consequences for you.

1 - You are not here to moderate this thread. If you feel people are name calling or trolling -

Report the post.

If you don't report posts it's your own loss.

2 - If I see any more mention of defamation/veiled legal 'warnings' I will be closing this thread down and getting the admins involved. We do not take such comments lightly.

Now back to strictly site discussion only.

Golf Mike 2

o1s1n wrote: »

1 - You are not here to moderate this thread. If you feel people are name calling or trolling -

Report the post.

If you don't report posts it's your own loss.

2 - If I see any more mention of defamation/veiled legal 'warnings' I will be closing this thread down and getting the admins involved. We do not take such comments lightly.

Now back to strictly site discussion only.

Thanks O1s1n,

Clarification and report sent.

GM2

Golf Mike 2

Hi All

For those who are concerned regarding the Chrono, the IAA have very kindly giving Hellfire their SKAN Chrono until their own one arrives which hopefully shall be next week.

Many thanks to the IAA for their generosity and to all of those who expressed their concerns.

GM2