The Angelus

Galvasean · 14-09-2009 1:12pm

CDfm wrote: »

I don't think the Angelus discriminates against atheists.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it negatively discriminates against anyone in particular. However, it does 'pro-actively discriminates' in favour of Catholocism.

CDfm · 14-09-2009 1:39pm

Galvasean wrote: »

I wouldn't go so far as to say it negatively discriminates against anyone in particular. However, it does 'pro-actively discriminates' in favour of Catholocism.

Does it?

I was driving thru Portlaoise last week and saw an elderly woman with her rosary beads.

Other than Rathkeale or the Grandparents pilgrimage to Knock you dont get a whole lot of Marian devotion these days. What kind of an effect do you think it has and to what audience. It doesn't move me.

Galvasean · 14-09-2009 1:42pm

CDfm wrote: »

Does it?

Yes. It's a Catholic service/tradition.

CDfm · 14-09-2009 2:27pm

Galvasean wrote: »

Yes. It's a Catholic service/tradition.

I know you are a fairly reasonable guy so this is not a loaded question but why do you feel it should go and who do you think its audience is?

Is it because its Catholic or do you have the same view on all religious broadcasting? The Sunday Mass for instance?

Antbert · 14-09-2009 4:40pm

CDfm wrote: »

I know you are a fairly reasonable guy so this is not a loaded question but why do you feel it should go and who do you think its audience is?

Is it because its Catholic or do you have the same view on all religious broadcasting? The Sunday Mass for instance?

Not aimed at me but... I think The Angelus (and The Sunday Mass) are biased programmes in favour of Catholocism. I wouldn't be in favour of any religious broadcasting (although I like the idea of every religion, including FSM, demanding air time, thus eventually rendering it completely impractical). I mean 'religious' in the non-informative way, obviously. I'm not opposed to programmes about religion.

LordSutch · 14-09-2009 4:47pm

I think the Angelus is a left over from another era, ie (the dominant Rome era), and just like the appendix, it too is surplus to modern day requirements

And anyway, why should the 'Roman Catholic' church have a broadcasting platform at 6pm every evening?

CDfm · 14-09-2009 5:06pm

Antbert wrote: »

(although I like the idea of every religion, including FSM, demanding air time,

And they dont -whens your Dolmio day?:D

Camelot wrote: »

I think the Angelus is a left over from another era, ie (the dominant Rome era), and just like the appendix, it too is surplus to modern day requirements

And anyway, why should the 'Roman Catholic' church have a broadcasting platform at 6pm every evening?

While I agree that it is unlikely a public broadcaster would do it today.nonetheless, you have to agree that there is an element of public broadcasting need to it.It may be surplus to your individual requirements but what about the needs of the elderly and not so mobile who can't get to mass etc.Whats to be done with them??

LordSutch · 14-09-2009 5:12pm

CDfm wrote: »

It may be surplus to your individual requirements but what about the needs of the elderly and not so mobile who can't get to mass etc.Whats to be done with them??

Who says all elderly people are Roman Catholics?

CDfm · 14-09-2009 5:17pm

Camelot wrote: »

Who says all elderly people are Roman Catholics?

They are more likely to demonstrate their beliefs without any inhibitions.

Like this group in Knock.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0914/1224254474558.html

Anyway thats a side issue - I was asking about whether it merited public broadcasting status?

LordSutch · 14-09-2009 5:31pm

CDfm wrote: »

Anyway thats a side issue - I was asking about whether it merited public broadcasting status?

And I am saying 'NO' it doesn't merit broadcasting status, because it only represents part of the Christian family, never mind other beliefs & non believers! > its outdated, and IMO it should be scrapped.

dvpower · 14-09-2009 5:51pm

CDfm wrote: »

It may be surplus to your individual requirements but what about the needs of the elderly and not so mobile who can't get to mass etc.Whats to be done with them??

Never thought about them. What are the elderly and immobile to do if they don't have a device that makes biong noises for a minute each day?

Wait... Don't we have some left over e-voting machines? With a small software upgrade and an inexpensive speaker attached, we could kill two birds with one stone.:pac:

CDfm · 14-09-2009 6:01pm

Camelot wrote: »

And I am saying 'NO' it doesn't merit broadcasting status, because it only represents part of the Christian family, never mind other beliefs & non believers! > its outdated, and IMO it should be scrapped.

So minority programming should be scrapped. You going to close TG4 too.

Flamed Diving · 14-09-2009 6:03pm

CDfm wrote: »

So minority programming should be scrapped. You going to close TG4 too.

Cultural language and personally held paranoid spook stories are not the same thing. Your comparison is therefore spurious.

CDfm · 14-09-2009 6:16pm

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Cultural language and personally held paranoid spook stories are not the same thing. Your comparison is therefore spurious.

My comparison is about minority appeal -it could be news for the deaf or a literacy programme.

FD does this mean you are "hostile" (for the want of a better description) to any form of programming with religious or spiritual content?

Flamed Diving · 14-09-2009 6:26pm

CDfm wrote: »

My comparison is about minority appeal -it could be news for the deaf or a literacy programme.

FD does this mean you are "hostile" (for the want of a better description) to any form of programming with religious or spiritual content?

1) People don't choose to be deaf. Stop using spurious analogies, please. It's silly.

2) I am opposed to a state-sponsored TV channel promoting one religion. Think about that statement for a while. Imagine if it was Islam that RTE promoted and only promoted. Would you be ok with that? I assume you would.

Stercus Accidit · 14-09-2009 6:35pm

Flamed Diving wrote: »

2) I am opposed to a state-sponsored TV channel promoting one religion. Think about that statement for a while. Imagine if it was Islam that RTE promoted and only promoted. Would you be ok with that? I assume you would.

Oh but there are more catholics than muslims and we are a catholic country..:pac:

Muslims in Ireland pay a TV licence, which pays for the Angelus and TV mass, where is their allotted religious scheduled programming?

If we are to bandy about the idea that its all proportional to the population, why not include other faiths and non-believers and give them a slot based on population?

I imagine the meeja would jump on the circus that it would be, with all faiths etc. demanding rubbish on TV for a few seconds, and complaints about exposing x y or z faith child to indoctrination by other x y or z faith.

While the removal of tax payer funded religious programming would be fair, the proportional programming would also be fair, and would result in many lols I'd imagine while people struggle to come to terms with their own hypocrisy versus trying to be culturally tolerant.

It would be a mess, a wonderful mess.

CDfm · 14-09-2009 6:52pm

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Oh but there are more catholics than muslims and we are a catholic country..:pac:

Muslims in Ireland pay a TV licence, which pays for the Angelus and TV mass, where is their allotted religious scheduled programming?

You had a Special on Ramadam and the Jewish Passover and Hindi Diwali programming

http://www.rte.ie/tv/worship/

You also have ecunimical programming

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/religion/1041163.html

Stercus Accidit · 14-09-2009 7:04pm

CDfm wrote: »

You had a Special on Ramadam and the Jewish Passover and Hindi Diwali programming

http://www.rte.ie/tv/worship/

You also have ecunimical programming

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/religion/1041163.html

Are these daily?

Weekly?

Flamed Diving · 14-09-2009 7:06pm

CDfm wrote: »

You had a Special on Ramadam and the Jewish Passover and Hindi Diwali programming

http://www.rte.ie/tv/worship/

You also have ecunimical programming

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/religion/1041163.html

Again, these are not analogous to a state tv channel actively selecting one religion as it's favourite. There is a difference between 1) a tv channel discussing a religion, as outlined in the links above, and 2) a tv channel choosing a particular faiths symbol (the angelus) and weaving it into the very fabric of their channels entity. If you cannot see this, then you are wilfully ignoring what your eyes relay to your brain.

CDfm · 14-09-2009 7:27pm

I dont agree with you FD but that said I checked out what RTEs position is and it views the Angelus as being part of it religious remit.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/angelus-broadcasts-fulfill-rtes-remit-1494944.html

So you may have a point of sorts.

Flamed Diving · 14-09-2009 7:30pm

Ok, so maybe a state broadcaster should not have a religious remit? They could still do their documentaries about Judaism, etc (which even I find interesting), so what would be the harm?

CDfm · 14-09-2009 7:49pm

The appeal of the Angelus must be that it fulfills the remit and is cheap as chips.It also reflects the cultural beliefs of a large section of the population.

Without being smug -I reckon the "elderly etc "argument I put forward would be a hard one to beat.

studiorat · 14-09-2009 8:10pm

Dunno if it's OT but does RTE still play the national anthem at close?

Used to like it when it had a bit of old school iconography. Personally I detest all that business with phillipino nurses, and ruddy faced workers going all glazed and spiritual looking.

Flamed Diving · 14-09-2009 8:13pm

CDfm wrote: »

The appeal of the Angelus must be that it fulfills the remit and is cheap as chips. It also reflects the cultural beliefs of the population.

Without being smug -I reckon the "elderly etc "argument I put forward would be a hard one to beat.

1) Thanks for discriminating against me.

2) Do the elderly, etc, really need the angelus?

CDfm · 14-09-2009 8:31pm

Flamed Diving wrote: »

1) Thanks for discriminating against me.

No offence meant - I should have said a large section of the population

2) Do the elderly, etc, really need the angelus?

Religious observation is important to lots of people and the elderly etc even more so. So some form of obsevence will accompany these beliefs IMO.

Flamed Diving · 14-09-2009 8:40pm

CDfm wrote: »

No offence meant - I should have said a large section of the population

You didn't offend me, really. I was just making a point. However if a politician or public institution said that, I would be rightly offended. Therefore you can see why I would have a problem with the Angelus, etc?

CDfm wrote: »

Religious observation is important to lots of people and the elderly etc even more so. So some form of obsevence will accompany these beliefs IMO.

What of the Muslim elderly? No RTÉ Adhan? Try use your imagination while watching this clip. The people stopping their work and looking upwards, etc, just like the Angelus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlLaUCAQlQQ

Any problems with this?

The fact that they are not the majority is missing the point entirely. Positive discrimination is still discrimination and is unconstitutional. This is why I oppose the Angelus.

CDfm · 14-09-2009 8:59pm

FD - yes I get your point.

I lived in Saudi so I understand your point and Ireland doesnt stop for the Angelus.

Irish religious programming was based on the BBC. The Public Broadcasting remit probably inherited from state control of broadcasting. Deregulate broadcasting and remove the licence fee and you probably wouldnt have it, TG4 or Lyric FM.

Flamed Diving · 14-09-2009 9:02pm

CDfm wrote: »

FD - yes I get your point.

I lived in Saudi so I understand your point and Ireland doesnt stop for the Angelus.

Irish religious programming was based on the BBC. The Public Broadcasting remit probably inherited from state control of broadcasting. Deregulate broadcasting and remove the licence fee and you probably wouldnt have it, TG4 or Lyric FM.

So, remove the religious remit and most of the Irish broadcasting sector would disappear down the plughole?

Come on...

Antbert · 14-09-2009 9:03pm

Flamed Diving wrote: »

What of the Muslim elderly? No RTÉ Adhan? Try use your imagination while watching this clip. The people stopping their work and looking upwards, etc, just like the Angelus:

Oh no. Only the majority elderly matter.

I have an issue with this anyway. Who are we (who I presume are all quite youthful) to decide that "the elderly" are all weak-minded religious nuts? Also, you may argue that the Angelus serves to help said weak-minded religious nuts, but why do they need it? Why can't they just pray at 6pm anyway?

I did say quite a few pages ago that it may be a better course of action to wait until everyone who's currently 75+ is dead to scrap the Angelus. Just to get rid of this damn 'facilitating the elderly' argument.

And there is a massive vast gaping chasm of a difference between programmes ABOUT religion and religious bias programmes.

Ball_of_Sex · 14-09-2009 9:12pm

Sure well all love the old bit of a BOOOOOONNNGGG!!!!!

The Angelus

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