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Rakeback Query from a Novice
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04-09-2009 11:49am#1
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The Tourist wrote: »How do the poker sites view rakeback?
as the scurge of the industry, along with affiliates
id love to have a 2,000 word rant now but il hold off - its too close to the weekend to blow a head gasket.0 -
BigCityBanker wrote: »as the scurge of the industry, along with affiliates
Is that because PP can't offer RB under iPoker rules or is there another reason?id love to have a 2,000 word rant now but il hold off - its too close to the weekend to blow a head gasket.
I'd be genuinely interested in reading this rant, go on, let a bit of steam off before the weekend.0 -
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Is that because PP can't offer RB under iPoker rules or is there another reason?.
en not really, i am not saddended by not being able to offer rakeback - the rules are the rules and you got to stick by themI'd be genuinely interested in reading this rant, go on, let a bit of steam off before the weekend.
this is a follow on to the above. Its very hard to recruit high value players based on your VIP scheme when there are rooms out there who recruit soley on the basis of rakeback.
Like things are so bad at the minute that the poker room manager of a large skin has his work email address flying around in PM's on 2+2 offering people rakeback. Its very hard to accept it getting thrown in your face like that.
If you have been following the news on 2+2 lately you will see that some rooms jettisoned some big winning players so as to reduce the win ratio for their room - like Peter Jetten (Apathy) reported on 2+2 that his account was closed. (the overall win ratio of a card room forms part of the network policy).
basically what happens is that a legitimate skin (say PPP) spends its hard earned recruiting players to the network, then parasitic skins (say NoIQ and others who i refuse to mention) step in and with close to zero marketing spend hoover up the high value players by using rakeback as a recruitment tool. This ecology does not lend itself to a stable long term business model.
I expect some large scale and surprising changes to the iPoker network in the next 6 months - I am not basing this on any inside information btw - I am basing this soley on my understanding of the current network ecology - iPoker in its current format can not exist long term and it is a failing of the management of the network that they have let it descend to its current state.
Im stopping now cos I am close to entering into a rant and once I get there im gone past boiling point and the weekend is too close for that 0 -
BigCityBanker wrote: »as the scurge of the industry, along with affiliates
id love to have a 2,000 word rant now but il hold off - its too close to the weekend to blow a head gasket.
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BigCityBanker wrote: »as the scurge of the industry, along with affiliates
id love to have a 2,000 word rant now but il hold off - its too close to the weekend to blow a head gasket.
I agree with you, but this is a problem that Playtech have made themselves.
With regards the recruitment of high value players, that is of course true. Who'll want to play on PPP or XXX Ipoker skin for a bonus and 35% cashback equivalent when they can get 50%+ on a different site.
The one thing to say is that Playtechs system is a smart one. Even the biggest skins on the network get found out by the Playtech ratios (albeit eventually) as there's no way to hide the fact that all the high value players are playing on whatever site. However, it's just like a big circle. One site recruits rakeback players of high value, does great for a few months, then breaks the ratios and has to dump all the players after they get fined or get threatened with a fine. Then new site pops up and all players flock there.
One such skin that was recently affected is Propaganda Poker who closed the accounts of all their HSNL players as well as a lot of their MSNL winners. Another site had to close large numbers of accounts recently to stay within the limits and yet another site is currently in the process of migrating into another site in order to hide their ratios in the numbers of a bigger site.
Playtech are very aware of what's going on right now and are becoming more proactive in dealing with it. I cant go into too much detail here. They're also getting increasingly active in various forums and other places in order to try and stamp this out.0 -
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BigCityBanker wrote: »as the scurge of the industry, along with affiliates
Maybe you should post that one over on the PAL forums! Im sure the members there would love to hear that one of the sponsored brands on the site thinks they are the scourge of the gambling industry :mad:
The fact of the matter is that affiliates can and do bring business to sites big and small in a variety of industries, not just gambling. There are literally tens of thousands of people now involved in full time internet marketing whether it be in the healthcare, plastic surgery, gambling, sports or whatever other niche. Affiliates bring a selling power and brand awareness for sites that would not be able to sustain the same amount of business otherwise. Even the likes of Full Tilt Poker and Pokerstars benefit directly form affiliate relationships as they have 0 guarantee that a player is going play on their site. Obviously as networks and individual skins get smaller, the value of the affiliate role goes up as those skins will have much smaller marketing budgets and will be more constrained in their ability to grow and promote their brand through other marketing channels, so they rely on affiliates to bring them business.0 -
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