THE GUIDELINES!!!

flanum

Quote....

"This exemption only applies in the following circumstances; proprietors of slaughterhouses, knackers!!"

:eek:

(see what i done there? (joke)!!

flanum

Did i see somewhere on the list a reference to firearms as being "weapons"?? bad bad choice of words...

rrpc

flanum wrote: »

Did i see somewhere on the list a reference to firearms as being "weapons"?? bad bad choice of words...

It's all over the document. A simple search and replace could have solved that.

sfakiaman

Usually though, a pattern of behaviour would need to exist which causes concern, but this is not to rule out a one-off incident which may bring into question the fitness of somebody to possess firearms. Of assistance may be the English case of Lubbock v Chief Constable of Lothian and Borders(2001) wherein the sheriff ruled that the revocation of a firearms and shotgun certificate following one isolated drink driving incident was justified given the individual’s general attitude towards the offence.

I'm sure the Scots will be amazed to find out that English law has taken over. And since when did any other countries case law make precidents for Irish law

bunny shooter

sfakiaman wrote: »

Usually though, a pattern of behaviour would need to exist which causes concern, but this is not to rule out a one-off incident which may bring into question the fitness of somebody to possess firearms. Of assistance may be the English case of Lubbock v Chief Constable of Lothian and Borders(2001) wherein the sheriff ruled that the revocation of a firearms and shotgun certificate following one isolated drink driving incident was justified given the individual’s general attitude towards the offence.

I'm sure the Scots will be amazed to find out that English law has taken over. And since when did any other countries case law make precidents for Irish law

Having been in Irish Courts and dealing with Irish Government Depts in my working life I find it incredible that an Irish Government Dept, namely Justice in this case, are quoting Scottish/English law :eek:

I seen a judge in the High Court get visibaly mad when a barrister quoted English law to him as a precedent in an Irish case and the case & legislation was recent enough.

Smacks of dirty tricks to me

rrpc

bunny shooter wrote: »

Having been in Irish Courts and dealing with Irish Government Depts in my working life I find it incredible that an Irish Government Dept, namely Justice in this case, are quoting Scottish/English law :eek:

I seen a judge in the High Court get visibaly mad when a barrister quoted English law to him as a precedent in an Irish case and the case & legislation was recent enough.

Smacks of dirty tricks to me

Firstly, the Guidelines are the Commissioner's guidelines and although the Gardai are an arm of the Justice system, they are independent of the department itself.

Secondly, the use of British law (the distinction is important) as precedent in Irish courts is not unusual as much of our law has the same roots or is in fact the same. Judges mightn't like it (usually because they don't like the idea that they aren't making ground breaking decisions), but it's perfectly valid to quote an identical case from a comparable jurisdiction. Bailii (The British and Irish Legal Information Institute) provide an online database of case law and legislation from both jurisdictions.

It doesn't carry any weight as an Irish decision would, but the purpose is to give direction to a judge as to how a similar case was decided (which of course they don't like :rolleyes:).

BornToKill

flanum wrote: »

Did i see somewhere on the list a reference to firearms as being "weapons"?? bad bad choice of words...

rrpc wrote: »

It's all over the document. A simple search and replace could have solved that.

It's only all over the court judgements in fairness where they are being quoted. Can't search and replace that to change the judgement a judge delivered.

johnner1

The shooting of foxes at night time with the aid of a lamp is not unlawful provided it can be done with the permission of the landowner and it does not occur within 60 feet of the public road. However it does pose a greater risk to the public and other farm animals. A condition which might be considered appropriate to the licensing of a centrefire high powered rifle for fox shooting could be that Gardai are notified of any shooting taking place after dark.


just seen this and im wondering is the shooting of rabbits at night time with the aid of a lamp with the land owners permission using a .22 rim fire unlawful, excuse me if this is a silly question.

johngalway

flanum wrote: »

Did i see somewhere on the list a reference to firearms as being "weapons"?? bad bad choice of words...

I've always disagreed with a sporting firearm being referred to as a "weapon". I literally physically cringe when I see them referred to as such on sites and in publications. It's such a bad PR image.

foxshooter243

johnner1 wrote: »

The shooting of foxes at night time with the aid of a lamp is not unlawful provided it can be done with the permission of the landowner and it does not occur within 60 feet of the public road. However it does pose a greater risk to the public and other farm animals. A condition which might be considered appropriate to the licensing of a centrefire high powered rifle for fox shooting could be that Gardai are notified of any shooting taking place after dark.


just seen this and im wondering is the shooting of rabbits at night time with the aid of a lamp with the land owners permission using a .22 rim fire unlawful, excuse me if this is a silly question.

Nope! its quite legal.;)

rrpc

BornToKill wrote: »

It's only all over the court judgements in fairness where they are being quoted. Can't search and replace that to change the judgement a judge delivered.

It's not just there though, it's in the commentary on the judgments and in some other parts of the document as well.

And 'gun', which I'm reliably informed by our defence forces people is something you tow behind a truck.

BornToKill

rrpc wrote: »

It's not just there though, it's in the commentary on the judgments and in some other parts of the document as well.

And 'gun', which I'm reliably informed by our defence forces people is something you tow behind a truck.

Oh c'mon! You don't object to 'gun' do you? I think 'firearm' is an odd term; in the mould of 'iron horse' or 'boom stick'.

Urban dictionary's lead definition for Gun at the moment:

'A complex arrangement of metal parts that is capable of discharging a lead peice at very high speeds, high enough to penetrate flesh and thin slabs of wood. Serves as humankind's (so far) permanent replacement for spears, staffs, swords, daggers, etc. as most effective weapons. Most commonly used for self-defense, murder, killing hostiles, recreational shooting, the standard issue weapons for armies, militias, etc.

Guns aren't the problem. It's criminals, irresponsible people, and totalitarian shi*heads getting a hold of them that's the problem'.

Sparks

'gun' isn't very precise though - and it's a less suitable word than words like 'rifle'.
I don't understand this need, when you have a perfectly suited word, to go looking for an inferior one instead...

BornToKill

Sparks wrote: »

'gun' isn't very precise though - and it's a less suitable word than words like 'rifle'.
I don't understand this need, when you have a perfectly suited word, to go looking for an inferior one instead...

I just find 'firearm' a bit of an odd word rather than perfectly suited. Both firearm and gun are less precise than more specific words like rifle, shotgun or handgun but that's to be expected. Not really worth thinking about too much in any event.

rrpc

BornToKill wrote: »

I just find 'firearm' a bit of an odd word rather than perfectly suited. Both firearm and gun are less precise than more specific words like rifle, shotgun or handgun but that's to be expected. Not really worth thinking about too much in any event.

In legislation, there is a need to have one word that describes all, and 'firearm' does the job. 'Weapon' imples intent and 'gun' is too broad (which was my point above).

Mellor

BornToKill wrote: »

Oh c'mon! You don't object to 'gun' do you? I think 'firearm' is an odd term; in the mould of 'iron horse' or 'boom stick'.

Urban dictionary's lead definition for Gun at the moment:

'A complex arrangement of metal parts that is capable of discharging a lead peice at very high speeds, high enough to penetrate flesh and thin slabs of wood. Serves as humankind's (so far) permanent replacement for spears, staffs, swords, daggers, etc. as most effective weapons. Most commonly used for self-defense, murder, killing hostiles, recreational shooting, the standard issue weapons for armies, militias, etc.

Guns aren't the problem. It's criminals, irresponsible people, and totalitarian shi*heads getting a hold of them that's the problem'.

Well quoting urbandictionary as a source is hardly going to back up your point.

I just find 'firearm' a bit of an odd word rather than perfectly suited. Both firearm and gun are less precise than more specific words like rifle, shotgun or handgun but that's to be expected. Not really worth thinking about too much in any event.

See, you find firearm odd, but that you, somebody with a broader knowledge of the area found differ.

For everyday usage, in a vernacular sense, gun is fine as it implies exactl ywhat is intended. But we are referring specific to a legal document here.

Weapon is terrible for obvious reasons, gun is too broad a term. This is plainly obvious by the fact that the parent act is called The Firearms Act, not the The Gun Act or similar nonsense. There is a required pedantry in legal documents, one that was always lacking when it came to firearms.

Again, we refer only to it being best in a terms of a legal document. Few here actual refer to them as firearms in everyday speech.

"MARY!!!. Have ya seen that poxy firearm of mine"
"What, Ah I dunno Paddy. What does it look like"
"My firearm, it looks like a bleeding firearm for jayus sake"
"Where did ya leave it"
"It was on the bloody table two minutes ago. I was only in the shed to get me wellies"
"I still don't know Paddy. Your gun was on the table, I moved that to the cabinet, but I didn't see a....what was it....firearm."