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  • 04-09-2009 3:31pm
    #1
    weshtawake
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭


    Could someone summarise for me what the BER requirements are for a new house build


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    #2
    holdfast
    Registered Users Posts: 1,151 ✭✭✭holdfast


    There is an legal requirement to have one. But more than that it makes good sense when you are building to do it right and to the best of your budget. For the cost of around 200 euro get a professional qualifed construction assessor or some one with a least 10 years experience in the trade to do it. It this is the only money you waste ( which it diffently wont be a waste) you will be very lucky. Dont penny pinch on this, just go for a cheaper tile could make up the difference.


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    #3
    d'Oracle
    Registered Users Posts: 7,025 ✭✭✭d'Oracle


    weshtawake wrote: »
    Could someone summarise for me what the BER requirements are for a new house build

    You are required to have a BER for a new house even if you are not going to sell it.
    Directly, thats it.

    But the BER is also used as a means to test compliance with Technical Guidance Document part L. (TGD-L 2008) Which is essentially the building regulations for the energy systems in your house.


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    #4
    Bhoypaul
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41 ✭Bhoypaul


    Your are legally obliged to have one carried out.
    You have to appoint an assessor who is independent from you, your architect and your builder.

    In addition to the BER assessment you will also require to have a pressure test carried out.
    For a new house the assessmentn will also check the design for complinace against the building regulations part L.

    Check out the SEI website for more information:

    www.sei.ie/ber


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    #5
    weshtawake
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭weshtawake


    Couple of questions on this:
    1) If it is a legal requirement how/who monitors it to ensure it has been carried out?
    2) When is it carried out - at the house planning stage before the build has started?
    3) How much should it cost?

    m


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    #6
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,644 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    weshtawake wrote: »
    Couple of questions on this:
    1) If it is a legal requirement how/who monitors it to ensure it has been carried out?
    2) When is it carried out - at the house planning stage before the build has started?
    3) How much should it cost?

    m

    assuming you are talking about a BER

    1. the building control section of the local authority
    2. before the house is occupied, after practical completion
    3. cost depends on many factors but mostly size of house and travel time by the assessor


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    #7
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,644 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Bhoypaul wrote: »
    Your are legally obliged to have one carried out.
    You have to appoint an assessor who is independent from you, your architect and your builder.

    That is incorrect.

    BER Assessors are prohibited from carrying out a BER Assessment on a building -
    (a) which is owned by them, or
    (b) which is owned by any Connected Person, or
    (c) which is to be sold or let by him or her or a Connected Person in their capacity as a sales or letting intermediary, or
    (d) in any other circumstances in which they have a material financial interest in the outcome of any assessment other than the fee charged for providing the rating.


    An architect / technician does not come under the above prohibition.


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    #8
    Bhoypaul
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41 ✭Bhoypaul


    Syd

    doesn't section d) exclude the architect carrying out an assessment on his own design as he/she would have a financial interest in a "good" rating?


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    #9
    weshtawake
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭weshtawake


    OK so the BER is controlled by the Local Authority. So before I move into my new house I have to provide the L.A. with a BER rating. Is there a minimum BER rating acceptable to the L.A. and what powers do they have if that minimum is not reached given that the house has been built and is ready to be occupied?


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    #10
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,644 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Bhoypaul wrote: »
    Syd

    doesn't section d) exclude the architect carrying out an assessment on his own design as he/she would have a financial interest in a "good" rating?

    how could he??

    why would an architects fees be index linked what rating the dwelling ends up as??

    architects fees are usually either fixed agreed, or as a percentage of construction costs.....


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    #11
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,644 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    weshtawake wrote: »
    OK so the BER is controlled by the Local Authority. So before I move into my new house I have to provide the L.A. with a BER rating. Is there a minimum BER rating acceptable to the L.A. and what powers do they have if that minimum is not reached given that the house has been built and is ready to be occupied?

    no there is no minimum rating.....

    obviously the dwelling must comply to contemporary building regulations...


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    #12
    sinnerboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    Bhoypaul wrote: »
    doesn't section d) exclude the architect carrying out an assessment on his own design as he/she would have a financial interest in a "good" rating?

    no -if only it were so .....


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    #13
    No6
    Registered Users Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭No6


    weshtawake wrote: »
    OK so the BER is controlled by the Local Authority. So before I move into my new house I have to provide the L.A. with a BER rating. Is there a minimum BER rating acceptable to the L.A. and what powers do they have if that minimum is not reached given that the house has been built and is ready to be occupied?

    So are you afraid that your house dosn't comply? or do you know it dosn't? You actually don't have to provide the LA with a BER unless they ask for one (which they can) It actually goes with the deeds of your house in the solicitors office with the certificates of compliance.


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    #14
    Bhoypaul
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41 ✭Bhoypaul


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    how could he??

    why would an architects fees be index linked what rating the dwelling ends up as??

    architects fees are usually either fixed agreed, or as a percentage of construction costs.....

    I'm not suggesting that an Arhitect's fees are linked to a BER rating but he does have a financial interest in the building. this would be similar to a Builder.

    I would hope this discussion is academic in any case as the SEI would have ajudicated on this point.

    <snip>
    you get a 1 week ban for that

    Syd


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    #15
    Bhoypaul
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41 ✭Bhoypaul


    No6 wrote: »
    So are you afraid that your house dosn't comply? or do you know it dosn't? You actually don't have to provide the LA with a BER unless they ask for one (which they can) It actually goes with the deeds of your house in the solicitors office with the certificates of compliance.

    I've seen it discussed elsewhere that some local authorities are putting it in the planning permissions that a minimum BER rating is met.

    I also received a call from a client who was selling his house to the council that they would only buy if he upgraded the house to achieve a C3 rating


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    #16
    Bhoypaul
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41 ✭Bhoypaul


    No6 wrote: »
    So are you afraid that your house dosn't comply? or do you know it dosn't? You actually don't have to provide the LA with a BER unless they ask for one (which they can) It actually goes with the deeds of your house in the solicitors office with the certificates of compliance.

    I've seen it discussed elsewhere that some local authorities are putting it in the planning permissions that a minimum BER rating is met.

    I also received a call from a client who was selling his house to the council that they would only buy if he upgraded the house to achieve a C3 rating

    <snip>


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    #17
    d'Oracle
    Registered Users Posts: 7,025 ✭✭✭d'Oracle


    Building built to the current building regulations (TGD L 2008) should reach around C1 - B3.

    Some LA's are adopting that approach Bhoypaul.
    I know DCC are looking at A3.


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    #18
    No6
    Registered Users Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭No6


    In fairness I was responding to the OP which related to the requirements and levels of enforcement for new houses. I have heard that some Co Councils are looking for preliminary BER's at planning stage, Mayo is looking for them on a % of all commencement notices served. Each LA is different most likely ranging from nothing at all to BER's at planning.

    I also completely fail to understand where you are getting the idea that designers have a financial interest in a house. We agree our fees do our job and thats it. I do agree our work affects the value of a house, good design improves the value but we don't gain any financial benfit from it.


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    #19
    No6
    Registered Users Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭No6


    d'Oracle wrote: »
    Building built to the current building regulations (TGD L 2008) should reach around C1 - B3.

    Some LA's are adopting that approach Bhoypaul.
    I know DCC are looking at A3.

    Make that a A3 to B1 for 2008 regs, C1-B3 was the 2005 regs.


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    #20
    d'Oracle
    Registered Users Posts: 7,025 ✭✭✭d'Oracle


    No6 wrote: »
    Make that a A3 to B1 for 2008 regs, C1-B3 was the 2005 regs.

    Thanks.
    I wasn't sure, didn't have the info to hand.


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    #21
    No6
    Registered Users Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭No6


    No problem, I'm glad to help, just wait till you try and get houses under the 2008 regs to comply with the Maximum Permitted Energy Performance
    Coefficient (MPEPC) of 0.6


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    #22
    tmdsurvey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭tmdsurvey


    Bhoypaul wrote: »
    Syd

    doesn't section d) exclude the architect carrying out an assessment on his own design as he/she would have a financial interest in a "good" rating?

    Similar to what Syd said- irrespective of what the rating is, the Architect or other professional will get a fixed fee for the rating. Fundamentally, the architect does not own the house, thus if it is sold he/she will not benefit financially if it has an A rating as opposed to a D rating. Obviously, if the Architect is doing the rating for a family member etc. then they are in breach of the code.

    I have been heard on the grapevine that the RIAI have looked into this in detail and further clarified that an Architect acting on behalf of a Client does not fall within the code exclusions.


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    #23
    sinnerboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    tmdsurvey wrote: »
    I have been heard on the grapevine that the RIAI have looked into this in detail and further clarified that an Architect acting on behalf of a Client does not fall within the code exclusions.

    No grapevine - the RIAI e mailed it's members to explicitly clarify the point .

    An Architect can issue a BER cert on a building they design providing that neither they themselves , a family member or a business partner own that building .


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