Campion Homes - Any good?

mike72

Hi guys.

Sorry to use a company name here, but was just wondering what peoples thoughts were on the build system that http://www.campionhomes.ie/ use. It's 90-180 mm insulation sandwiched between two precast concrete walls, built to req'd size. They call it ICP system I think.

Not a lot of info on the website, but looks interesting.

Does anyone have any experience of this build system?

Is this system any good. Is it just another expensive fad?

Thoughts anyone?

AMIIAM

Mike, I would think best left alone. These units were probably being designed during the "Get rich quick Celtic Tiger years". Any builder would jump at the idea of speed of erection, after all, they are only interested in quick profit.Concrete is one of the most porous building materials. Just stand a dry concrete block in a puddle of water and watch how quickly it soaks into. But you have to remember the builder will not be living in the precast house. YOU will be. Then, what if it was not such a great idea? Can you then sell on your problem?

Mazotasan

I actually was considering this myself along with ICF. Went along to a presentation, visited their factory and visited a house they had just erected. Speed of build is quite impressive as is the wall spec, you have a continuous unbroken layer of insulation. Also all your sockets/electrical points etc are built into the walls at construction stage...downside is you need to know where all these are going to be located very early on. Walls are also prepped for plastering before leaving the factory. Not sure if the water issue is a problem as the concrete does have an additive to help protect against water ingression. The technology is quiet interesting behind the system as the outer concrete leaf is essentially acting like a cladding and the walls ties used between the leaves have taken years to develop. In the end we found it just cost prohibitive in terms of value for performance...but I'd definitely keep an eye ICP's. Curious myself to see what others think...? My thinking was that an ICP house with an ICF roof would be fairly Rolls Royce

archtech

I went to one of their presentations over the summer and to be honest was not impressed. The concept is good but at this stage I won't touch them.

They continuously used some of the worst examples of some of the traditional construction, I've seen as a method of demonstrating how much better their product was. The examples shown would have made any other method of construction look impressive.

They seemed lacking very much in technical information and dodged the technical issues when challenged, nor did they offer to follow up with the technical info.

They have no Agrément Cert nor any intention of getting one from what I could gather.

JPJ

Mike, did you make any further progress on this system. I have been investigating it too. And I am focusing more on the system than any specific Irish supplier. I understand the wall tie is a US owned technology. The technology looks impressive. I am biased against timber-frame construction in this Irish climate, particularly so after the last couple of weeks here in the west. A structural engineer I spoke with lives in timber frame and advised me against it, cracks and creaks! And more current, at least concrete has some chance of drying out after a flood. In addition to that the key selling points for me are the claimed guarantee of U values to be achieved, and the factory build quality, similar to factory built timber-frame systems. Of course, anybody can deliver good or bad quality, of-site or on-site, block or timber. But as with timber-frame, this off-site system seems to improve the chances of good quality consistent build and insulation.
I believe this thermomass composite fiber wall tie system is certified in both France and Germany. But yes it is frustrating that it is not certified in Ireland or the UK. This is a negative, but then I do trust the German more than the Irish regulators (Irish regulators of any industry). But the system is being used here and in the UK in some public and commercial projects (ie non private residential). It seems to have been more widely used in the US for thirty+ years so it is not a Celtic Tiger invention.
I agree with Mazotasan about porosity, this would be the least of my worries with the system. It does not use concrete blocks. I understand the system uses civil engineering grade concrete which from my (unqualified)investigations is not porous, or at least nothing like as porous as blocks. Can any engineers confirm this? This must be true as not too many concrete tanks seep water. And it can be low carbon footprint concrete too if required.
The system should also achieve high levels of air tightness.
Some housing schemes were built in the country using a similar pre-cast system with steel wall ties. And I have read on these boards 1 or 2 residents of same schemes praise them (yes ok post purchase cognitive dissonance perhaps). I understand the cold bridging impact of a steel tie is significant. The composite fibre ties used in this system “claim” to almost eliminate cold bridging through the tie. (Again, can any engineers confirm?) But yes, they seem to be pricing/partying like the good old days, and for me at this time it does not warrant any more than a small price premium over any other system. There are a few other suppliers starting up who I am getting prices from. I can make available my recent finished build cost comparisons if anyone is interested in discussing and analysing and sharing ideas.
Has anybody else done a thorough analysis of this system and what are your thoughts?
Archtech, if the concept is good why would you not touch it “now”? What do you think the problems are? Could they be "managed out" or eliminated in any way?
This may read like I am their sales rep, but I am not. Just hoping for some researched and considered input one way or the other to help me reach a decision. Yes I know I am rejecting most of the other "against" comments already given, but most of those comments against this system seem to be based on a lack of knowledge of the system. Will you guys re-assess and post again? Can send you some links if necessary.