I miss the old Feedback.

Mr. Presentable · 07-09-2009 11:40am

Feedback is fine as it is. The old "Classic" feedback was ruined by immature lolcat posting and the like. Just because someone has a misjudged grievance should not permit mockery. A mature response is more likely in the current system, and this is a huge improvement.

tbh · 07-09-2009 11:46am

feedback used to be fun, I guess, but there was always a cadre of posters - mods and non-mods, who couldn't keep on the right side of the invisible line. So what you got was bullsh1t and bullying, and normal grievances drowned out in a sea of lolcats. The people who could respect the ethos of feedback were punished for the actions of the people who couldn't. And to be fair, boards is a better, if slightly more sterile place for it. imo.

I guess it's ironic that people are always calling for less moderation, and yet the two unmoderated forums, feedback and the thunderdome, have been watered down, by request, so much that they are miles removed from their original intended function.

Boston · 07-09-2009 12:57pm

As usual Tbh hits the point home. It probably is better then it was but it is more sterile, the feedback system has floated from one extreme to the other. From a real hands off "this is the one place where everyone gets a say" to a system were by threads are now locked as a matter of course. Surely there's room for some compromise?

Piste · 07-09-2009 4:13pm

irishbird wrote: »

anyway that is completely off point. i liked the old feedback as "normal user" got a chance to back each other up when clearly mods just back each other up and get to treat the rest of us like the irritation that we apparently are to the smooth running of the site.

I totally agree with having Feedback as user-led, but have to tell you you're cmpletely wrong if you think mods back each other up all the time. Funnily enough, the only time you'll see a unanimous mod consensus is when we all agree that we never agree. The reason mods are so keen to point out that we don't spend our time giving each other metaphorical reach arounds is because on the mod forum there are always disagreements between mods. So please get the idea that mods ALWAYS agree with each otherjust because they're mods, out of your head.

Back to the point of having feedback as user-led, Boston hit the nail on the head when he said the best thing about old feedback was that users got to decide whether mod decisions or larger boards issues and policies were right or wrong. This is terrily important if we want to keep boards user-led. At the moment if a user has a problem with moderation they'll post a thread which will usually be answered by an admin and locked as the admin feels they have adequately answered the query/sorted the issue. Often the user then feels hard done by as they weren't given a proper chance to fight their corner. I much prefered the old system whereby users would debate whether the OP was in the wrong or not, sort of a "trial by your peers" type situation instead of one person making a snap decision.

I also think users need to get over this "us and them" mentality they have. Mods don't suddenly become dicks just because they're mods. If I posted a complaint about being treated unfairly in a forum I'd be as frustrated as any other user if my complaint was brushed aside without giving me time to fight my corner, however satisfactory the admin thinks they have dealt with the problem.

TLDR: There is no mod conspiracy. Feedback should be user-led instead of decisions being taken by an admin or admin team.

Dudess · 07-09-2009 5:19pm

Boston wrote: »

From a real hands off "this is the one place where everyone gets a say" to a system were by threads are now locked as a matter of course. Surely there's room for some compromise?

That's exactly what I said in my first point here - I just don't know whether it's workable though.

Jazzy · 08-09-2009 2:27am

its all about control

Dav · 08-09-2009 12:18pm

Boston has been banned from Feedback for a month for his abuse of Dudess and for trolling.

Sherifu · 08-09-2009 1:20pm

That's unfortunate.

Jazzy · 08-09-2009 1:50pm

i think you have just proved his point

orestes · 08-09-2009 3:09pm

Jazzy wrote: »

i think you have just proved his point

Not really. I agree with Boston and his general thoughts about feedback that he has put forth in this thread but personally abusing someone and taking cheap snipes at their modding is completely uncalled for. Using him being banned for that to try to claim he is being silenced on feedback is completely manipulating the facts to try and make them fit a pre-concieved agenda imo.

Ste05 · 08-09-2009 3:24pm

Jazzy wrote: »

i think you have just proved his point

He was trolling and abusive and was rightfully banned, how does that make his point?? His opinion could and should have been given in a more mature manner. Him being banned doesn't in anyway prove his point. As you can see this thread is still open, user input is still being sought, the only difference is it's now one troll lighter and the discussion can progress constructively, as a proper feedback thread should.

If you take the trolling, lolcats and abuse out of feedback, then this forum will be incredibly more productive and useful to the users, mods and admins of boards.ie, a few people's noses will be put out of joint because they lose some of their lulz, but the desires of the few should never overway the need of the many and what is best for boards.ie as a site.

Jazzy · 08-09-2009 3:46pm

he pointed out valid facts

Karl Hungus · 08-09-2009 4:34pm

Jazzy wrote: »

he pointed out valid facts

And just because he pointed out valid facts, that means he can't have done something else at the same time that caused him to get banned? Interesting. I'll have to try to provide facts and be abusive at the same time, and avoid bans.

orestes · 08-09-2009 5:14pm

Karl Hungus wrote: »

And just because he pointed out valid facts, that means he can't have done something else at the same time that caused him to get banned? Interesting. I'll have to try to provide facts and be abusive at the same time, and avoid bans.

We should bring in some kind of system where the more interesting, obscure and random the fact the more abuse you get away with.

So "Barack Obama is the current president of the United States" gets me a Karl Hungus smells like wee wee, but "pouring alcohol on a scorpion causes them to sting themselves to death" gets me Karl Hungus has both male and female reproductive organs.

Kinda like a version of the thunderdome that's informative

dr.bollocko · 08-09-2009 5:16pm

orestes wrote: »

We should bring in some kind of system where the more interesting, obscure and random the fact the more abuse you get away with.

So "Barack Obama is the current president of the United States" gets me a Karl Hungus smells like wee wee, but "pouring alcohol on a scorpion causes them to sting themselves to death" gets me Karl Hungus has both male and female reproductive organs.

Kinda like a version of the thunderdome that's informative

The thunderdome is incredibly informative.
Right now we're partaking in a community outreach program. Check my sig for details.

Jazzy · 08-09-2009 5:30pm

i think he just hit a subconscious nerve as regards the old way of things and how it was done. there are certain attitudes and habits of then which dont suit the image now. he wasnt wrong, i think thats the important point.

Ste05 · 08-09-2009 5:40pm

Jazzy wrote: »

i think he just hit a subconscious nerve as regards the old way of things and how it was done. there are certain attitudes and habits of then which dont suit the image now. he wasnt wrong, i think thats the important point.

The important point is that trolling and abuse is not allowed any more. It applies in every single forum on boards (bar the obvious exception) and should definitely apply in a forum as important to the overall site as this! I think it's a huge step in the right direction for the site that this forum can become a constructive place where people can have their say without fear of ridicule or personal abuse. There will still obviously be morans coming in making stupid threads, those people should be dealt with in a mature fashion. If they're trolls, lock the thread, if they're newbies or naive then they should be dealt with maturely and made feel welcome in the site.

It's nothing to do with image IMO, it's just this place needs to be a proper functioning Feedback forum, not a place for a vocal minority to troll with impunity and be abusive.

orestes · 08-09-2009 5:50pm

Jazzy wrote: »

i think he just hit a subconscious nerve as regards the old way of things and how it was done. there are certain attitudes and habits of then which dont suit the image now. he wasnt wrong, i think thats the important point.

Like I said already, I do agree with a lot of the points he made but personal abuse is completely uncalled for and deserves to be actioned upon. Regradless of any other points that are made personal abuse should not be tolerated. Everything else that is said, no matter how right or wrong it might be, doesn't get you a free pass to abuse people. Pretty simple really

Dudess · 08-09-2009 5:50pm

Jazzy wrote: »

i think you have just proved his point

Jazzy wrote: »

he pointed out valid facts

Jazzy wrote: »

i think he just hit a subconscious nerve as regards the old way of things and how it was done. there are certain attitudes and habits of then which dont suit the image now. he wasnt wrong, i think thats the important point.

Aaaand that's not what he was banned for, so... what was your point again?

By the way, you're quite often moaning here about the mods all ganging up on posters, and the posters who back them up - yet new Feedback ensures that doesn't happen. It's a bit confusing.

Piste · 08-09-2009 9:00pm

Jazzy wrote: »

he pointed out valid facts

I don't think you understood why he was banned. His first few posts in the thread were constructive and had good suggestions about what to do with the forum. He then went on to post a vitriolic, abusive atack on someone and that's what he was banned for.

Jazzy · 08-09-2009 11:57pm

i do understand what he was banned for. i dont think he could have made his point without it though, hence what my point is dudess.
and i also think the current feedback makes it easier for mods to 'gang up' but i wouldnt call it that. its very easy to see the patterns here, heck the patterns are made mods/volunteers if they sing the right tune. as said, its all about control

Piste · 09-09-2009 12:33am

Do you really don't think he could have made his point in a more civil way? In what way do you think the current system allows mods to gang up?

Dudess · 09-09-2009 1:32am

Jazzy wrote: »

i do understand what he was banned for. i dont think he could have made his point without it though, hence what my point is dudess.

Sorry, don't follow you. If a person is abusive, they get banned - you said it "proved a point". Yes, it proved a point - that a person who is abusive gets banned. If someone whom you didn't agree with here was abusive, they'd get banned too.

Jazzy · 09-09-2009 1:51am

then think harder

orestes · 09-09-2009 1:59am

Jazzy wrote: »

then think harder

Who is that addressed to and in regards to what point?

If you want to engage in discussion on the subject then do so rather than just throwing out vague and condescending statements, or if you're gonna try and bait people at least try and do it properly

sceptre · 09-09-2009 2:02am

A point can always be made without getting abusive.

If you could stop baiting each other that would be pretty damned nice.

Jazzy · 09-09-2009 2:34am

dudess is just putting a line under abuse. it didnt sound like she had thought that hard about it. i told her to think harder. ya'll sound like smart enough folks but when it comes down to it you only seem to read into things as much as you want to, not as much as you should. the point he proved that yes, there has always been favourable bias towards female mods. i know, i dared to say it. it couldnt be true though could it? i mean, smart folks dont think like that

Steve · 09-09-2009 2:46am

Jazzy wrote: »

the point he proved that yes, there has always been favourable bias towards female mods.

How exactly has that been proven?

Are there any other examples of bias you can link to?

I can assure you that if any female mod insulted another user then they would be reprimanded in the same manner as any other user.

Dudess · 09-09-2009 2:47am

Jazzy wrote: »

dudess is just putting a line under abuse.

Yep.

ya'll sound like smart enough folks but when it comes down to it you only seem to read into things as much as you want to

Nope, that would be what you're doing. See the following:

the point he proved that yes, there has always been favourable bias towards female mods. i know, i dared to say it.

Well done for leaving out all the other comments. As for favourable bias towards female mods, that's all in your head... it was also never actually said. What was said was that I specifically use my gender to garner support from males here.

So again, the banning was for a number of personally abusive comments (which you glossed over) - not the exercising of bias towards a female moderator - but, you know... read and twist things for whatever ends suit you, if that's your thang.

Hank Scorpio · 09-09-2009 2:49am

tssk tssk jazzy, as if people like guayin have ever gotten away with murder.

I miss the old Feedback.

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