Stolen gun

Mahey

My house was broken into recently and the safe with my pistol, ammo and bits and pieces was ripped off the wall. I've reported to the Gardai and there hasn't been too much fuss by them but anybody know how I'm likely to be treated if I try and get a replacement pistol?

Pickled Tranee

It depend if you have a license to a gun but they still wont like it if you do or don't have one or go looking to get another

4gun

in light of this thread I would advise any one that buys a gun safe whenever, not to use the bolts that come with it, I used Hilti 16mm where you have to drill a 22mm reciever hole in the wall to fit the slieve for the bolt the ones that origiolally came with my safe were 8mm bolt with a 12mm hole ....double the bolt will mean double the force required th pull it off the wall and any man that can rip two 16mm hilti bolts from a block wall...well i've yet to meet him ....
it would be easier to get a kango:D

flanum

Hijacking the thread here a bit sorry but.... did anybody else check out the gun-safe crowd that had a stall at birr? there were some really cool lookin wardroby type safes.... has anybody got one of these??

Mahey

I take your point on the bolts that came with the safe - they were ridiculous, I had used 10mm bolts with a 16mm drill (I think), 2 stayed in the wall and 2 went with the safe. My problem was that the safe was not up to the job and the lads had time to work on it, 21 minutes on the job and there were 3 of them.

The local Garda reckons I had done all that could've been asked but the gun is still gone. They also reckon they didn't know or expect it to have a pistol in it because there only about 10 people who knew I had it...

jwshooter

Mahey wrote: »

I take your point on the bolts that came with the safe - they were ridiculous, I had used 10mm bolts with a 16mm drill (I think), 2 stayed in the wall and 2 went with the safe. My problem was that the safe was not up to the job and the lads had time to work on it, 21 minutes on the job and there were 3 of them.

The local Garda reckons I had done all that could've been asked but the gun is still gone. They also reckon they didn't know or expect it to have a pistol in it because there only about 10 people who knew I had it...

how do you know they were in your house for 21 minutes ,did your alarm not sound ,did the cops not call, was there no neighbours around.

these safes are as good as shopping trolling .

its a cop out on behalf of the gaurds to inforce people to put them in when they know there not work a crap .

a good crew will have them off the wall in 5 mins.

i did not keep my pistol in mine. pistols ,bolts, triggers , should be stored in a small hide away safe .

Grizzly 45

SlightyOT.But does any of yez know what is a recommended Hilti bolt/solution for very old brickwork[200 years plus]??Found a neater place for a gunsafe.But the brickwork is crumbly as Hell.I'm thinking the bolts that when they get into a cavity space flip open two "barbs" like a spear gun barb to anchor into the wall??Or is there somthing else available??

Rovi

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

SlightyOT.But does any of yez know what is a recommended Hilti bolt/solution for very old brickwork[200 years plus]??Found a neater place for a gunsafe.But the brickwork is crumbly as Hell.I'm thinking the bolts that when they get into a cavity space flip open two "barbs" like a spear gun barb to anchor into the wall??Or is there somthing else available??

Chemical anchoring systems are getting very popular for this sort of thing and they work pretty well in situations as you describe, but all metal or chemical anchors depend on the integrity of the structure for their effectiveness. A really crumbly wall may simply pull apart, no matter what's anchored into it.

Have you access to the other side of the wall?
It may be more feasible to drill the whole way through and use threaded bar and welded spreader plates, thus using the physical bulk of the whole wall as the anchor.
Obviously, the plates and bar need to be obscured or disguised so as not to reveal their purpose.

Some links:
HILTI Chemical Anchors
HILTI Metal Anchors
RawlPlug Chemical Anchors
RawlPlug Metal Anchors

Mahey

jwshooter wrote: »

how do you know they were in your house for 21 minutes ,did your alarm not sound ,did the cops not call, was there no neighbours around.
.

A neighbour has CCTV where you can see them enter and leave the house but it's too far away for detail. The alarm wasn't on, my wife was out of the house for an hour and a half in the middle of the day. I live in the country so neighbours are all great but out of earshot or not home.

jwshooter

Rovi wrote: »

Chemical anchoring systems are getting very popular for this sort of thing and they work pretty well in situations as you describe, but all metal or chemical anchors depend on the integrity of the structure for their effectiveness. A really crumbly wall may simply pull apart, no matter what's anchored into it.

Have you access to the other side of the wall?
It may be more feasible to drill the whole way through and use threaded bar and welded spreader plates, thus using the physical bulk of the whole wall as the anchor.
Obviously, the plates and bar need to be obscured or disguised so as not to reveal their purpose.

Some links:
HILTI Chemical Anchors
HILTI Metal Anchors
RawlPlug Chemical Anchors
RawlPlug Metal Anchors

your anchor is only as strong as the surface you fix it too . a sheet of 5mm steel and fix that to the wall first. then weld a floor plate to it ,fix the safe to it then by bolts or better still weld..
the bulk of the thing will be to big to move .

i build a small gun room in my house its only 4x4 ,its build with blocks on the flat with brick force through it ,9" concrete ceiling .the door is a standard size made from 5mm steel covered with the doors i used through out the house.

it has 12 ,20mm expanding bolts around the frame .inside i have a 12 gun safe bolted to the wall.

it cost me feck all to build it.

some of the big safes are very good ,almost impossible for the most scum bags to get into and to heavy to shift.

Sparks

If the wall is crumbling away, what good does fixing a steel plate to it do? All that'll happen is that the plate will be the thing torn off the wall.

And if the wall is sound, what extra benefit does the plate give you that proper bolts won't?



And some of the descriptions of actual break-ins where firearms are targeted that we've seen here make me very suspicious, to the point where if it were me that had been robbed, I'd be having the Gardai talk to the person who fitted my safe. Every time I've talked to the Gardai about thefts (I've been burgled and had my car broken into twice), they've stressed over and over that the vast, vast majority of these kinds of crimes are opportunistic, and that those doing them are looking for small, transportable valuables. In cars, it's mobile phones and GPS units; in houses it's rings and small valuable jewellery (and there are some things they won't nick, like more than one watch because if you're caught you might be able to claim one as being yours but if you've six on your arm...).

For someone to go into your house during a very narrow time window, find your safe and work on it for a while (20 minutes is a *very* long time in a burgalry - my house was done in under ten minutes according to the local gardai and the forensic guy they sent out) -- well, it just jars with everything I've heard from the Gardai.

4gun

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

SlightyOT.But does any of yez know what is a recommended Hilti bolt/solution for very old brickwork[200 years plus]??Found a neater place for a gunsafe.But the brickwork is crumbly as Hell.I'm thinking the bolts that when they get into a cavity space flip open two "barbs" like a spear gun barb to anchor into the wall??Or is there somthing else available??

might be better to ancor the entire safe on to the wall permanently with some thing like chemical cement some thing like gripfill or dynagrip and but mainly some thing that will bond positively to the porus surface of the brick ( not the plaster as this might detatch itself from the wall) done proper this will be a permanent job
moeing house will require a new safe
you will still have to bolt it in order to hold it in place until the "glue" sets and I know there are better "glues" out there than the ones mentioned, but definately something high tac

Grizzly 45

Have you access to the other side of the wall?
It may be more feasible to drill the whole way through and use threaded bar and welded spreader plates, thus using the physical bulk of the whole wall as the anchor.
Obviously, the plates and bar need to be obscured or disguised so as not to reveal their purpose.

Short answer ..NO!:( It is a hidden cavity behind a built in closet.If that makes sense. Think the chemical anchors and it's concealed location might do this all right.
Some links:
HILTI Chemical Anchors
HILTI Metal Anchors
RawlPlug Chemical Anchors
RawlPlug Metal Anchors[/quote]

Grizzly 45

4gun wrote: »

might be better to ancor the entire safe on to the wall permanently with some thing like chemical cement some thing like gripfill or dynagrip and but mainly some thing that will bond positively to the porus surface of the brick ( not the plaster as this might detatch itself from the wall) done proper this will be a permanent job
moeing house will require a new safe
you will still have to bolt it in order to hold it in place until the "glue" sets and I know there are better "glues" out there than the ones mentioned, but definately something high tac

Cheers 4 gun.That sounds like an option...Only time I'll be moving out of here is feet first in a box carried by six,by the look of things.;)

Rovi

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Cheers 4 gun.That sounds like an option...Only time I'll be moving out of here is feet first in a box carried by six,by the look of things.;)

They could always just put you in the safe and weld up the door.

Grizzly 45

Have to get a Batesville casket then....Air,and moisture proof,made from aluminium,has a handy stash compartment in the lid for things you want to take on the final journay across the Styxx..Weighs as much as a good gunsafe...And costs about the same hmmmm....dual use...:D:D.
Of course my other option,would be a strong room ,or one of these doors into a small room. www.gunvault.com

jwshooter

*Lil' Miss Sparkles* wrote: »

If the wall is crumbling away, what good does fixing a steel plate to it do? All that'll happen is that the plate will be the thing torn off the wall.

And if the wall is sound, what extra benefit does the plate give you that proper bolts won't?



And some of the descriptions of actual break-ins where firearms are targeted that we've seen here make me very suspicious, to the point where if it were me that had been robbed, I'd be having the Gardai talk to the person who fitted my safe. Every time I've talked to the Gardai about thefts (I've been burgled and had my car broken into twice), they've stressed over and over that the vast, vast majority of these kinds of crimes are opportunistic, and that those doing them are looking for small, transportable valuables. In cars, it's mobile phones and GPS units; in houses it's rings and small valuable jewellery (and there are some things they won't nick, like more than one watch because if you're caught you might be able to claim one as being yours but if you've six on your arm...).

For someone to go into your house during a very narrow time window, find your safe and work on it for a while (20 minutes is a *very* long time in a burgalry - my house was done in under ten minutes according to the local gardai and the forensic guy they sent out) -- well, it just jars with everything I've heard from the Gardai.

read my post again .the safe is bolted or welded to the steel plate and the plate is fixed to the wall also there is a floor plate ,ie. a bigger area to put expanding bolts into.

there is not to many going to try get a safe 2 or 3 spuare meters of steel with a safe stuck to it ,through a door let alone into a van in 10 minutes.

jwshooter

4gun wrote: »

might be better to ancor the entire safe on to the wall permanently with some thing like chemical cement some thing like gripfill or dynagrip and but mainly some thing that will bond positively to the porus surface of the brick ( not the plaster as this might detatch itself from the wall) done proper this will be a permanent job
moeing house will require a new safe
you will still have to bolt it in order to hold it in place until the "glue" sets and I know there are better "glues" out there than the ones mentioned, but definately something high tac

gripfill ! you are joking .

blue tack would be as good

Sparks

Ah, I see what you're saying there jw. I didn't understand how large the backing plate you were talking about was.

4gun

jwshooter wrote: »

gripfill ! you are joking .

blue tack would be as good

I know thats why i said something wit a higher tac I just couldn't think of some of the new "bonding agents" that are available, can you sujest the better ones?

jwshooter

4gun wrote: »

I know thats why i said something wit a higher tac I just couldn't think of some of the new "bonding agents" that are available, can you sujest the better ones?

i use chemical bonding agents in the course of my work .none of the over the counter ones would be up that job and the really good professional ones are to expensive for mass use.

you have to under stand its a surface contact ,steel to concrete is a bad contact as the concrete will give .

steel ,stone, brick ,concrete will contract and expand with heat and cold over the years and the contact will be lost .

steel to steel would be better .but not as good as wield.

gripfill would be ok to stick a skirting board but not a shelf no matter what is says on the tin.
half the houses in ireland will fall down if gripfill ever fails.

4gun

well I thought about it some more and I the brick is dusty and crumbling then what ever is used to stick it to the wall will just peel off more brick work even if the brickwork was sealed with a primer the primer would still peel off

guns4fun

Mahey wrote: »

My house was broken into recently and the safe with my pistol, ammo and bits and pieces was ripped off the wall. I've reported to the Gardai and there hasn't been too much fuss by them but anybody know how I'm likely to be treated if I try and get a replacement pistol?

I'm afraid you might run into big trouble trying to get another gun because you stored all your stuff in the same place.
In the new guidelines it suggests that you should store your ammo in a seperate location and guns should be broken down and the bits and bobs be stored somewhere else also.
Even if your guns were not the intended target of the thieves they now have them in full with ammo.
The gardai might look at you as being careless.
If you are lucky enough to get another gun you should read the thread HOME SECURITY FOR GUN OWNERS where there are plenty of hints for your secure storage.

Mahey

guns4fun wrote: »

I'm afraid you might run into big trouble trying to get another gun because you stored all your stuff in the same place.
In the new guidelines it suggests that you should store your ammo in a seperate location and guns should be broken down and the bits and bobs be stored somewhere else also.
Even if your guns were not the intended target of the thieves they now have them in full with ammo.
The gardai might look at you as being careless.
If you are lucky enough to get another gun you should read the thread HOME SECURITY FOR GUN OWNERS where there are plenty of hints for your secure storage.

This is what I'm afraid of, I was hoping somebody may have had previous experience and let me know how they got on. I'll talk to the local garda and see what he recommends, he was very helpful and understanding and although it won't be his decision, he was of the opinion that everything was ok in respet of the storage.
Time will tell...

Cavan duck buster

what i'm planning for the bew house is to have a safe under the floor bords so that it is almost un-findable and the main gun safe i'm going to have a small hidden room behind the book shelf with a big heavy door to get into it.

the averge robber would never find anything, the only thing is that everyone in my town knows that i'm deep into shooting and very known for clay shooting

tac foley

Mahey wrote: »

I live in the country so neighbours are all great ...

I'm sorry to hear about your recent theft - losing anything is a problem, but losing a firearm is particularly worrisome, in light of the 'shrug'/sloping shoulders/teflon cop approach of your local plods. As for your great neighbours, while stating the obvious, it seems to me that some of them are definitely not as 'great' as you think they are.

My next-door neighbours - who live less than ten feet away from me - took fifteen years to figure out that I was interested in shooting and had guns in the house.

tac

johngalway

Cavan duck buster wrote: »

what i'm planning for the bew house is to have a safe under the floor bords so that it is almost un-findable and the main gun safe i'm going to have a small hidden room behind the book shelf with a big heavy door to get into it.

the averge robber would never find anything, the only thing is that everyone in my town knows that i'm deep into shooting and very known for clay shooting

You've just told the world your plan

Cass

Zombie thread lads. Nearly three years old.

Also discussion of possible security measures.

Closed.