Pick your ireland 15

Chucky the tree

I think people on this forum have read far to much into a churchill cup match. Proven international? He's been capped 18 times in about 5 years.

danthefan

As opposed to Ronans two caps in the summer and handful of HEC games. Best has put in excellent performances against the likes of Aus and NZ, he's way ahead of Ronan.

Chucky the tree

danthefan wrote: »

As opposed to Ronans two caps in the summer and handful of HEC games. Best has put in excellent performances against the likes of Aus and NZ, he's way ahead of Ronan.

I never said Ronan was better but calling Neil Best a proven international when he has 18 caps and his best performances came 3 years ago is a bit OTT. I certainly wouldnt say he's way ahead of Ronan either. Best and Ronan play at a similiar level now with the ML and GP being supposedly of a similar standard and neither getting much HEC game time. I'd probably rather see ronan get the game time as he'll be a lot more likely to be around by the next WC.

danthefan

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I never said Ronan was better but calling Neil Best a proven international when he has 18 caps and his best performances came 3 years ago is a bit OTT. I certainly wouldnt say he's way ahead of Ronan either. Best and Ronan play at a similiar level now with the ML and GP being supposedly of a similar standard and neither getting much HEC game time. I'd probably rather see ronan get the game time as he'll be a lot more likely to be around by the next WC.

We'll have to just disagree so, personally I wouldn't have Ronan anywhere near the Ireland 22.

Stick_man

Thought Ronan was superb last night and certaintly has had his moments in the HC last year. I like Best, I like the nasty streak in him, he can be a valuable player but he is nowhere near Wallace or Ferris at the moment and is he a good impact option? Shane Jennings needs to step up, when he was at Leicester people were saying he would be the irish seven for the next five years but it hasnt happened. As it stands for me only Horan is under threat from Healy in the Irish fifteen. We all hope someone steps up and challenge Hayes and O Gara. Sexton needs to continue his performances from last year. Buckley needs to remember he is a beast and capable of anything and Mike Ross needs to bring his Quins form across the water.

thehighground

danthefan wrote: »

Ronan? Give me Best over him every time. Ronan has looked good at ML level and that's about it, Best is a proven internation who is in great form for Northampton playing a lot at 7.

Best was subbed at 60 mins last week and is on the bench today. He was suspended for a couple of months last year.

MickTipp

1. Healy
2. Flannery
3. Hayes

4. O Callaghan
5. O Connell

6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip

9. O Leary
10. O Gara

11. Fitzgerald
12. Earls
13. O Driscoll
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

fullback4glin

Dean Howling Manganese wrote: »

Title says it all,pick the team you would pick if you were manager of ireland,not inc subs and you can pick injured players.


Your the manager,now pick the team!

1-Healy
2-Best
3-Ross
4-Poc
5-Cullen
6-Ferris
7-Jennings
8-Heaslip
9-O'Donohoe
10-Sexton
11-Fitz
12-Darcy
13-BOD
14-Bowe
15-Kearney

this is laughable

tell everybody in Leinster I said hello

Stick_man

danthefan wrote: »

That 3rd backline would be annihilated at international level imo. We're looking good though anyway, loads of depth and I'd have no concerns if Jennings or Best had to step in. I'm a bit worried about Leamy because his game has gone to pieces it seems to me (though I didn't see last night, did he play well?), if he can regain form
then that would be great.

had the same concerns about Leamy but he looked back to his best last night. Scored a good try, his chasing was good and he plucked one great up and under out of the air. At his best Leamy can challenge Ferris or Heaslip.

irishbucsfan

Stick_man wrote: »

I like Best, I like the nasty streak in him, he can be a valuable player but he is nowhere near Wallace or Ferris at the moment and is he a good impact option?.

I'd say that Best is a good impact option. Especially if winning a game. Bringing on a Best or Quinlan whilst holding on to a lead can be a seriously valuable move. Teams get frustrated fast if they're trailing and running out of time, and if you can bring on your dark knight of scumbaggery under those circumstances then the opposition can lose the plot a bit.

Agree that he's a mile from the starting team though, and I certainly wouldn't put him ahead of Ronan for the 7 shirt (Especially if Ronan keeps playing as he has been, which will force Munster to start him in the HEC). That's a matter of opinion though.

twinytwo

Dean Howling Manganese wrote: »

Title says it all,pick the team you would pick if you were manager of ireland,not inc subs and you can pick injured players.


Your the manager,now pick the team!

1-Healy
2-Best
3-Ross
4-Poc
5-Cullen
6-Ferris
7-Jennings
8-Heaslip
9-O'Donohoe
10-Sexton
11-Fitz
12-Darcy
13-BOD
14-Bowe
15-Kearney

I find it so hard not to pick my fav player wally,I was even tempted to stick him on the wing,he has to up his game.

In the front row we have a bunch of beasts,who will challenge any team in the world.
In the2nd row we have 2 proven leaders.
Backs row we have a proper fetcher and 2 class footballers.

Rest of the team picks itself imo.

I cant stand O'learys ****ty box kicks,so Pod gets the nod.

god so many things wrong with that team i dont even know where to start

twinytwo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

RE: Neil Best:
He won't play 7 at an international level, and even though he does bring great physicality to the team his discipline is poor. I think he should be involved in the squad but that's about as far as I think he'll ever go. He's a good option at 6 while Ferris is a borderline world-class option at 6.


And yes, Sexton is already better at moving a backline than O'Gara, for many reasons. O'Gara's passing is fine, not a problem there, but his inability to take the ball on and break the line himself means that he's very two-dimensional. When gameplanning against the Irish backline teams know that O'Gara will either kick or pass and so they can rush an outside-in defense, which means that players like O'Driscoll and the wide threats receive the ball much rarer and when they do it's pretty rushed. Sexton's running ability means that he threatens the opposition's defense in the gap between 10 and 12 and therefore teams can't rush up outside, if they do, he might break the line and hit 12 or 13 (where Ireland are most dangerous) with an offload, and suddenly the line is broken like a McDonald's happy meal toy under Hayes' arse. This will mean that teams can't push up on 13 (O'Driscoll, Earls, Bowe, Cave, Fitzgerald are all players who Sexton could play with at 13 during his career) and so we should technically see some more action from that position.
That is getting ahead of ourselves though, he's still a young guy so there's no need to rush his development by throwing him into an Irish team until he's ready, especially when we have one of the best 10s in the NH still playing decently. I'm down in Perth right now and I met an Aussie Rules coach here who works in developing players for the Eagles and he said that he finds the most important time in a player's development is in the first 50 games they play at a professional level, regardless of their age. I'd imagine that holds true for rugby too.

A lot of people want Sexton to play and i hope he does in the AI's against SA and AUS so the likes of Burger and Elsom can run over him a few times so we can see him fall to pieces... the whole idea that he is the savour for the 10 slot is comical

sock puppet

twinytwo wrote: »

A lot of people want Sexton to play and i hope he does in the AI's against SA and AUS so the likes of Burger and Elsom can run over him a few times so we can see him fall to pieces... the whole idea that he is the savour for the 10 slot is comical

Agreed. There's nothing that pleases me more than to see Irish players getting humiliated by the oppostion.

pisslips

Here's my list of current underated irish squad members:
Rory Best
Wallace
D'Arcy
D'oc

Here's my list of overrated player's:
Flannery
Earls
Casey
Best


So really I'd only swap rory best with flannery.
Our back row is awesome, so is Leamy but you couldn't change it, unless heaslip was out of form which he seems the opposite of.
Jennings to cover seven and I'd have O'brien ahead of ronan but then he's unlucky not to get the same game time.

Earls is fast and good step but is poor defensively sometimes and his hands aren't great.I wouldn't even consider him ahead of D'Arcy.

twinytwo

twinytwo wrote: »

god so many things wrong with that team i dont even know where to start

Why not read my amended team,that was a drunken team.

Who would you pick?

fullback4glin

fullback4glin wrote: »

this is laughable

tell everybody in Leinster I said hello

Will do.

Can you read?
Obviously not,go back through the thread and look for the amended team,you blind cretin.





**********************************************************

Note to angry Munster fans,ammended team is just a few pages back if you would be so kind as to look at it,rather than commenting on the first one

**********************************************************

RuggieBear

goose banned for personal abuse

Madworld

pisslips wrote: »

Here's my list of current underated irish squad members:
Rory Best
Wallace
D'Arcy
D'oc

Here's my list of overrated player's:
Flannery
Earls
Casey
Best


So really I'd only swap rory best with flannery.
Our back row is awesome, so is Leamy but you couldn't change it, unless heaslip was out of form which he seems the opposite of.
Jennings to cover seven and I'd have O'brien ahead of ronan but then he's unlucky not to get the same game time.

Earls is fast and good step but is poor defensively sometimes and his hands aren't great.I wouldn't even consider him ahead of D'Arcy.

Wallace and DOC underrated :eek:

Casey and Best Overrated :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Depp

listen right, johnny sexton is a class player altogether and will certainly be a regular fixture at international rugby at some point in the future. But right now hes not ready, he hasnt even played that much first team rugby for leinster yet after being behind contepomi for so long. he should be given a few seasons to mature and he shouldnt just be ****ed in at the deep end.

Just my two cents

pisslips

Madworld wrote: »

Wallace and DOC underrated :eek:

Casey and Best Overrated :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Yeah Wallace is still Ireland's best back row player, only shading it though now for the first time in years. He was consistently one of the only irish ball carriers who was gauranteed to pass the gain line against the likes of France and SH sides. And he always had amazing speed and physicality in defence and competed well at the break down despite what people, who were quite honestly looking for holes in his game might have thought.

DOC should have started for the lions honestly, again his physicality abiliey to cover ground and work rate is the best for possibly any second row in world rugby.

Casey is not up to the pace of international rugby and neil best lacks the football ability and even though he has a lot of physicality, it doesn't compare to ferris or wallace. Also, if you think about it Quinlan does everything best does better and is a line-out/second row option.

sock puppet

Depp wrote: »

listen right, johnny sexton is a class player altogether and will certainly be a regular fixture at international rugby at some point in the future. But right now hes not ready, he hasnt even played that much first team rugby for leinster yet after being behind contepomi for so long. he should be given a few seasons to mature and he shouldnt just be ****ed in at the deep end.

Just my two cents

So he should get his first cap during the world cup? If he doesn't start games either in the AIs or 6 Nations then come the World Cup we'll be fielding either a geriatric or a guy with about a season of international experience.

Depp

no i meant phase him in with substitute appearances over the next few years and work him up to international level

anonymous_joe

Depp wrote: »

no i meant phase him in with substitute appearances over the next few years and work him up to international level

And now's the perfect time.

The AIs this year mean nothing. They've no value at all. We don't need to qualify for anything and they're too far from the WC to be of genuine use, so now's the time to throw in the kids.

siltirocker

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Neil Best is probably 5th or 6th in line for the 7 jersey, for me.

Wallace, Ronan, Jennings, Ferris are closer to that jersey IMO. By this 6 nations O'Brien could work his way up the order of preference as well... not to mention O'Connor having the whole "Pick Me I'm A Connacht Player" thing working in his favour.

Johnny O'Connor doesn't even get on Connacht's 15, so why should he be considered for Ireland?

irishbucsfan

siltirocker wrote: »

Johnny O'Connor doesn't even get on Connacht's 15, so why should he be considered for Ireland?

Pretty simple answer for that one. If he doesn't make the Connacht 15 he won't be considered for Ireland. He will be a regular starter for Connacht this year though, unless he's regressed a lot.

danthefan

Depp wrote: »

listen right, johnny sexton is a class player altogether and will certainly be a regular fixture at international rugby at some point in the future. But right now hes not ready, he hasnt even played that much first team rugby for leinster yet after being behind contepomi for so long. he should be given a few seasons to mature and he shouldnt just be ****ed in at the deep end.

Just my two cents

He's not ready, based on what exactly?

siltirocker

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He will be a regular starter for Connacht this year though, unless he's regressed a lot.

Unfortunately he isn't and he is regressing, the new signing Mike McComish has taken his jersey, and Ray Ofisa and Jihn Muldoon aren't going anywhere.

siltirocker

danthefan wrote: »

He's not ready, based on what exactly?

I think Depp actually pointed that out in his post when he said he hasn't even had that much ML games due to Felipe. (On a side note, an Irish FH should be above an Argentinian one).

danthefan

siltirocker wrote: »

I think Depp actually pointed that out in his post when he said he hasn't even had that much ML games due to Felipe. (On a side note, an Irish FH should be above an Argentinian one).

He's got over 40 Leinster caps at this stage, most of them starts, and performed in a HEC SF and final. Weak argument imo and such an Irish attitude to young talent.

anonymous_joe

siltirocker wrote: »

Johnny O'Connor doesn't even get on Connacht's 15, so why should he be considered for Ireland?

Like Leamy there's something wrong there, and the guy needs more support from the IRFU or from someone, God knows who to get it back together.

twinytwo

danthefan wrote: »

He's not ready, based on what exactly?

you think because he played well in 2 games he is suddenly top international material... the fact is he will get murdered by SH teams worse than rog ever did

pisslips

Well I can't see him as an attacking threat at that level at all but at least his defense will be better.

ROG is still better at tactical kicking and passing though. he just doesn't even dream of attacking the line though and his defense is just.....he might as well not be there if a backrow runs at him.....
But he's still ahead of sexton, i think. Also If we have a kick to win a tight match, I'd prefer to see Rog take it.
BUt with one full season in the HC I think Sexton would be ready to take the responsibility, it'll be nice not to get that nervous feeling anymore when a team attacks the 10 channel....Poor old wallace is probably finding it harder to save his teamate these days.

twinytwo

pisslips wrote: »

Here's my list of current underated irish squad members:
Rory Best
Wallace
D'Arcy
D'oc

Here's my list of overrated player's:
Flannery
Earls
Casey
Best


So really I'd only swap rory best with flannery.
Our back row is awesome, so is Leamy but you couldn't change it, unless heaslip was out of form which he seems the opposite of.
Jennings to cover seven and I'd have O'brien ahead of ronan but then he's unlucky not to get the same game time.


Earls is fast and good step but is poor defensively sometimes and his hands aren't great.I wouldn't even consider him ahead of D'Arcy.

You can hardly call flans and earls overrated

danthefan

twinytwo wrote: »

You can hardly call flans and earls overrated

Would you start Earls for Ireland, if so where?

danthefan

twinytwo wrote: »

A lot of people want Sexton to play and i hope he does in the AI's against SA and AUS so the likes of Burger and Elsom can run over him a few times so we can see him fall to pieces... the whole idea that he is the savour for the 10 slot is comical

Just saw this, fairly pathetic and can't imagine any proper Irish fan saying something of the sort.

twinytwo

danthefan wrote: »

Just saw this, fairly pathetic and can't imagine any proper Irish fan saying something of the sort.

thats good for you... it is however facing facts.. it will take something like the above for people to see he is no the player everyone some seem to think he is

twinytwo

danthefan wrote: »

Would you start Earls for Ireland, if so where?

by your reasoning so every player that dosent start for ireland is overrated?

Ciaran-Irl

It is really sad and pathetic to hear people here wanting to see South Africa beat Ireland if Sexton starts.

If ROG starts, plays badly and we lose, it will not be his fault. We must all remember what he did for us many years ago. We should keep him for the 6 Nations and make sure nobody ever gets experience at 10 before the World Cup.

If Sexton starts and plays badly and we lose, you will be delighted. It will be a thrill to see ROG play well into his late forties / early fifties I suppose?

Is that about right?

This should be nothing to do with Leinster / Munster. If O Conner, Keatly or Humph jr were better than Sexton, then they should be given time in the Autumn. It is absolute nonsense to think that nobody else deserves time in a position. I hate this attitude that "you own a Jersey until someone steals it from you". That is bad for the Irish team.

danthefan

twinytwo wrote: »

by your reasoning so every player that dosent start for ireland is overrated?

No, I asked you a pretty simple question and that's it.

chupacabra

Wow yeah. Thats an utterly disgraceful statement to make. If you are a fan of irish rugby at all you will cross every finger and toe on you that Sexton absolutely tears apart whoever he ends up making his international debut against. As a man who lives in deepest munster i at least can acknowlage that Rodge is getting on in years and is in horrible form and that Sexton is the clear successor to the 10 shirt and the sooner the better imo. Wake up and smell the beans a bit here, because you are making yourself look like a complete fool.

pisslips

twinytwo wrote: »

You can hardly call flans and earls overrated

Well a lot of people seem to think that Earls will be a leading player for Ireland in years to come and future lions test but I don't think he's near that level maybe he will improve but he's not near it yet.

What he does have is pace, he might play on the wing for munster this year. He lacks handling, defense and well, I'll say his kicking game is untested. But handling and defense are really vital attributes for a centre.

there is a problem sure, that both our world class centres have lost that intial burst of speed that noone else could match, so I hope earls develops all those assets of his game before the next world cup, not sure if he will on the wing for munster. In fact, I'd say it's more likely for McFadden or Cave to be a regular at that stage, as they are more well rounded balanced players at the moment. Don't get me wrong Earls is very exciting talent, his pace off the mark is unbelieveable but thats not enough, when you play the teams Ireland want to beat like France and SH sides.

THe thing about Flannery is that he is an integrel part of a perfect lineout. Watch how many rucks he clears out, how many players he smashes at the fringe, how many tackles he breaks, the answer is very few if any. Then look at the work Rory Best(unfortunately injured) does around the field. Look at the extra power and intensity he has in contact and his work rate.And he's a great line out thrower, he's just not part of the perfect formula thats already there.I agree that there's no point in disrupting a perfect lineout.But maybe it should be re-built before the next world cup.

Thats all just my opinion of course.

anonymous_joe

Fla and Best are both quality. Either or, it doesn't matter. Both are quality. Hopefully we'll have one starting and one on the bench for the WC.

NickNolte

Depp wrote: »

listen right, johnny sexton is a class player altogether and will certainly be a regular fixture at international rugby at some point in the future. But right now hes not ready, he hasnt even played that much first team rugby for leinster yet after being behind contepomi for so long. he should be given a few seasons to mature and he shouldnt just be ****ed in at the deep end.

I'm not so sure. He seemed to handle the pressure of a HEC semi-final and final very well. I'd say he's probably ready for an international start and, let's face it, we need a replacement for ROG; particularly if he's not going to be around for 2011.

A lot of people want Sexton to play and i hope he does in the AI's against SA and AUS so the likes of Burger and Elsom can run over him a few times so we can see him fall to pieces... the whole idea that he is the savour for the 10 slot is comical

Yes because as well all know, ROG would pile drive Elsom into the ground before eating his children. :rolleyes:

Or maybe you're saying you just want him start so he gets badly injured? Why are you even "supporting" Ireland? Just stick to your province and stay away from the international team. We don't want you as a supporter.

Sorry I couldn't quote you directly but you've been on my blocked list for some time... for obvious reasons.

thehighground

chupacabra wrote: »

Wow yeah. Thats an utterly disgraceful statement to make. If you are a fan of irish rugby at all you will cross every finger and toe on you that Sexton absolutely tears apart whoever he ends up making his international debut against. As a man who lives in deepest munster i at least can acknowlage that Rodge is getting on in years and is in horrible form and that Sexton is the clear successor to the 10 shirt and the sooner the better imo. Wake up and smell the beans a bit here, because you are making yourself look like a complete fool.

So you guys think that Sexton would fare better than ROG with the SA backrow running down his throat? I bet Rocky Elsom knows all the buttons to push to get Sexton binned. Any of you remember Stephen Jones' break (and getting isolated which is generally what does happen to breaking OHs) that lead to Ireland first try against Wales?

If you are a fan of irish rugby at all you will cross every finger and toe on you that Sexton absolutely tears apart whoever he ends up making his international debut against.

PS - the scarcasm detect button seems to be malfunctioning in this thread. I don't know if any of you remember how the ABs targetted Luke's channel last November - since then he has played out on the wing.;)

thehighground

danthefan wrote: »

He's got over 40 Leinster caps at this stage, most of them starts, and performed in a HEC SF and final. Weak argument imo and such an Irish attitude to young talent.

Compare Sexton to Luke Fitzgerald (aged 21): Luke has 45 starts & 14 as substitute.
Sexton (aged 24) has 27 starts + 15. Ian Humphreys got MOM when playing for Leicester against Leinster a couple of years ago in Thomond Park in the HCup. He also had a great game in the win against the Os last Friday. He should get a chance as well. And Staunton did well for Leicester at the weekend.

anonymous_joe

thehighground wrote: »

So you guys think that Sexton would fare better than ROG with the SA backrow running down his throat? I bet Rocky Elsom knows all the buttons to push to get Sexton binned. Any of you remember Stephen Jones' break (and getting isolated which is generally what does happen to breaking OHs) that lead to Ireland first try against Wales?

Sexton's a better tackler. So yes, he would fare better.

PS - the scarcasm detect button seems to be malfunctioning in this thread. I don't know if any of you remember how the ABs targetted Luke's channel last November - since then he has played out on the wing.;)

I dunno if that had anything to do with Fitzgerald tbh. In fact I doubt they were targetting the 12 channel at all, it's just that wherever you have Ma'a Nonu it looks like you're being targeted.

chupacabra

thehighground wrote: »

Compare Sexton to Luke Fitzgerald (aged 21): Luke has 45 starts & 14 as substitute.
Sexton (aged 24) has 27 starts + 15. Ian Humphreys got MOM when playing for Leicester against Leinster a couple of years ago in Thomond Park in the HCup. He also had a great game in the win against the Os last Friday. He should get a chance as well. And Staunton did well for Leicester at the weekend.

Put a player who is a worse defender than ROG at 10 for Ireland? I'm glad you aren't the head coach of Ireland. He is also incredibly inconsistent in every facet of his game, whereas sexton i think has just about proved his mettle at this stage, i mean what more can it take for you to trust that he is worth a spot on the irish team? I guess a Heineken cup final where he ran the show against one of the best teams in europe just isnt enough for some people :rolleyes:

stephen_n

thehighground wrote: »

Compare Sexton to Luke Fitzgerald (aged 21): Luke has 45 starts & 14 as substitute.
Sexton (aged 24) has 27 starts + 15. Ian Humphreys got MOM when playing for Leicester against Leinster a couple of years ago in Thomond Park in the HCup. He also had a great game in the win against the Os last Friday. He should get a chance as well. And Staunton did well for Leicester at the weekend.

Not sure if your making the argument for or against Sexton with that post tbh since Fitzgerald is an established member of the Irish team and has only started 18 times more for Lenister. As a matter of interest what would you require of an outhalf to be in contention to challenge a player who you must admit has been out of form internationaly for a good while now?

Size=everything

thehighground wrote: »

So you guys think that Sexton would fare better than ROG with the SA backrow running down his throat?

Clearly as he is a far better tackler than Ronan O'Gara.

Risteard

The way I see it is that Sexton has handled everything that's been thrown at him so far. HEC final is as close to a test match as you're going to get. In my mind the only thing left for him is to prove he can perform week-in week-out which he'll be able to do this year as first choice ten. He definitely has to start against Fiji.

I'm still not sure about South Africa part of me wants him to start if he's performing well and if he's outstanding by the time the game comes around then start him but this is a brilliant Springboks team and a bit much for someone so inexperienced. Though some will argue that throwing him in at the deep end will be good for him, a kind of 'sink or swim' scenario.