"Colossal" Aida

JonnyBlackrock

I see there's going to be something called "Colossal" AIDA at the O2 Arena in Dublin in December.
They go on about the spectacle etc, but I notice that there's absolutely no mention of the conductor, cast and orchestra in any of the publicity.
That goes for the performance in Strasbourg in November as well. And BTW, the tickets here are 70 and 95 euros, but they're 40 and 60 in France.
Does anybody have any info about this?

mambo

Yes, all very mysterious and hush-hush. Is there something they don't want us to know?

Sandwich

Instinct tells me dont touch with a barge pole.

JonnyBlackrock

My hunch is that they are after people who will be "blinded" by the "spectacle" but have no real interest in opera, and I'm sure there are many such people. I've actually just had a quick look at Ticketmaster and it seems that most, or perhaps all, of the good seats are already sold.

I'm sure they're also blissfully unaware of the fact that if they want to attract "real" opera-goers they might have to advertise the names of the singers, the conductor and the orchestra. They might also reassure us that the acoustics of the new Point are suitable for opera (they probably aren't, but I can't say as I've never been there). But then, if they can sell all the tickets anyway, then why should they bother?

PhiliousPhogg

Lol

Any show that describes itself in the title has to be suspect.

sakii

It's very mysterious... Bizarre how they omit the important information - and there is absolutely no way of contacting the organisers/box office to find out more! It's like they are inadvertently alienating the very people whom one would imagine should be the core audience. I love the opera Aida, have seen it previously in various opera houses around the world, and was very excited when I first heard the ads, but there's no way I would dream of buying a ticket without the foggiest notion of who is performing.

Clearly the orgainisers are entirely unconcerned with the music end of things, and are trying to turn grand opera into some sort of cross between Lloyd-Weber and vaudeville, and are marketing it the sort of morons who will not no the difference. Pathetic.

westtip

I am sure the whole thing will be one of these ghastly amplified events. Makes me shudder at the thought of it. deffo not opera as I know it....

Dirigent

Opera meets Westsh1te, at €99 (plus booking fee). Go to the Gaeity and watch a musical, and buy an Aida CD instead.

JonnyBlackrock

I've seen Aida enough times not to care about it anyway, and I already have a couple of recorded versions. So at least I'll be saving some money on this one.

mambo

More details on this production @ http://www.independent.ie/incoming/trying-to-rid-opera-of-its-phantoms-1903531.html

westtip

JonnyBlackrock wrote: »

I've seen Aida enough times not to care about it anyway, and I already have a couple of recorded versions. So at least I'll be saving some money on this one.

Johny - Agree with you - me too seen Aida many times - and woudl not bother with this kind of hyped up (no doubt amplified) destruction of a masterpiece - I will however deffo go to the Aida on October 23rd from Met New York in High Definition broadcast into various cinemas around the country - check out the Opera Ireland website - I went to the Tosca last night - these are really a sensational new way of seeing opera - deffo recommend it!

JonnyBlackrock

They've finally come up with all the details.
Here's the link:
http://www.aida-ireland.com/index.htm

Aida is somebody called Melba Ramos, apparently from Puerto Rico. Radames is one Ernesto L. Grisales Cardona, and Inez Olabarria is "Amnerios". It's supported by the "Sinfonieorchestra (strange combination of languages) choir and ballet of the Opera Theatre Constanta" (isn't that in Romania?)

The Mad Hatter

JonnyBlackrock wrote: »

They've finally come up with all the details.
Here's the link:
http://www.aida-ireland.com/index.htm

Aida is somebody called Melba Ramos, apparently from Puerto Rico. Radames is one Ernesto L. Grisales Cardona, and Inez Olabarria is "Amnerios". It's supported by the "Sinfonieorchestra (strange combination of languages) choir and ballet of the Opera Theatre Constanta" (isn't that in Romania?)

The Sinfonieorchestra choir?

JonnyBlackrock

It's supposed to be the "Sinfonieorchestra (strange combination of languages), choir and ballet of the Opera Theatre Constanta"

Raist

I saw that the performance on 7 November in Strasbourg and at Epernay (France) on 12 December have both been cancelled for "technical and logistic reasons"

The performance in Geneva scheduled for 20 November has been deferred to NOVEMBER 2010!!!!!!!

http://www.geneva-arena.ch/event_details.php?eid=618&back=prog

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:.

Given it cancelled its opening nite and deferred others - and that tickets for those perfpmances were priced @ €40 and €65 - looks like the promoters are desperate to sell the performance out here NOT A GOOD SIGN FOR ME - RIP OFF IRELAND is still at work!!!

JonnyBlackrock

That's very interesting. I wonder if the performances here will be cancelled too.

catchup

Leaving aside the possibility that the show won't go on..........

I have to laugh reading your postings. You really do confirm the stereotypical image of opera snobs. Is it any wonder opera is unable to attract mass audience appeal? Opera is supposed to be fun..Aida was written as a spectacle to be performed with massed choir and orchestra. I'd prefer to see a "tacky" spectacular perfomance of this opera than one crammed onto the stage of the Gaiety. It was written as entertainment not as high art!!

Grow up!

JonnyBlackrock

It has nothing to do with snobbery.

If I'm going to spend 100 euros to go and see an opera, I would like to know whether the main characters can actually sing, whether the choir, orchestra and conductor are going to be any good, whether they are using amplification (which distorts voices). Of course opera is entertainment, but it's art too, and it's legitimate to try and suss out the quality of what you're buying.

When you buy a car, do you not bother to investigate what you're buying?

If you want to see real opera fanaticism go to Italy. There, the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker all go to the opera in the evening and spend the whole of the next day arguing about it. More than entertainment, it's seen as a kind of spectator sport - who can sing the longest, who can sing the highest, who can sing the loudest.

westtip

catchup wrote: »

Leaving aside the possibility that the show won't go on..........

I have to laugh reading your postings. You really do confirm the stereotypical image of opera snobs. Is it any wonder opera is unable to attract mass audience appeal? Opera is supposed to be fun..Aida was written as a spectacle to be performed with massed choir and orchestra. I'd prefer to see a "tacky" spectacular perfomance of this opera than one crammed onto the stage of the Gaiety. It was written as entertainment not as high art!!

Grow up!

JonnyBlackrock wrote: »

It has nothing to do with snobbery.

If I'm going to spend 100 euros to go and see an opera, I would like to know whether the main characters can actually sing, whether the choir, orchestra and conductor are going to be any good, whether they are using amplification (which distorts voices). Of course opera is entertainment, but it's art too, and it's legitimate to try and suss out the quality of what you're buying.

When you buy a car, do you not bother to investigate what you're buying?

If you want to see real opera fanaticism go to Italy. There, the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker all go to the opera in the evening and spend the whole of the next day arguing about it. More than entertainment, it's seen as a kind of spectator sport - who can sing the longest, who can sing the highest, who can sing the loudest.

Catchup Jonny is quite right in his subsequent post - if you want to see Aida on a grand scale then go to Italy and see it at Verona - where the spectacle is indeed spectacular - but equally the singing is taken very seriously; believe me the first time I saw Aida there many years ago the tenor cracked on his top note of Celeste Aida - there was a deep intake of breath from the 10,000 or so people in the arena - thats right 10,000 listening in the open air with no amplification and you could hear a pin drop when the music was being played; I would not pay 100 euro for a spectacle of amplified singing in the O2/point, with what appears to be highly suspect artistic credentials.

In Verona you will pay about 25 euro to sit on steps of the ampitheatre and actually have a good operatic experience. RE the Gaiety, you are actually probably right which is why OI should avoid Aida as part of their offerings; This show at the prices they are charging is not actually appealing to the non opera going masses is it.

The NY Met have tried to move opera to the masses through their HD screenings so take a look at the opera thread for thoughts on this idea - The Aida broadcast two weeks ago in HD at 25 euro a ticket to cinemas throughout Ireland was better value for the novice and seasoned opera goer than this event in the O2.

Jonny is not being an opera snob he is just being pragmatic - actually I don't think this Aida in the O2 will do anything to convert anyone to Opera.....Do you?

JonnyBlackrock

westtip wrote: »

if you want to see Aida on a grand scale then go to Italy and see it at Verona - where the spectacle is indeed spectacular - but equally the singing is taken very seriously,

Hi Westtip,
Been there done that. Saw Aida at Verona somewhere around 1996 or 1997, which is why I won't be going to this thing at the O2.

It certainly was a huge spectacle with excellent singing, but it's a long slog. It starts at around 9:30 (it has to be dark), and what with the interminable curtain calls (in the middle, then stage left and then stage right because the stage is as big as a football pitch) and with lengthy construction works to change the scenery, it didn't finish until about 2 in the morning.

westtip

JonnyBlackrock wrote: »

Hi Westtip,
Been there done that. Saw Aida at Verona somewhere around 1996 or 1997, which is why I won't be going to this thing at the O2.

It certainly was a huge spectacle with excellent singing, but it's a long slog. It starts at around 9:30 (it has to be dark), and what with the interminable curtain calls (in the middle, then stage left and then stage right because the stage is as big as a football pitch) and with lengthy construction works to change the scenery, it didn't finish until about 2 in the morning.

Jonny I first went on an inter-rail ticket to Italy in 78 and "did" verona for the first time. Its still great value in fact just checked the website 23 euro are the cheapest tickets now

Suggest our friend who calls you an "opera snob" takes a look at the pics here:

http://www.arena.it/en-US/information/information.html

Will bring back some memories for you, and Catchup take a look to see what we mean, Jonny is not being a snob he is just saying this product based on his opera going experience actually doesn't look like good value ....more of that below...

I revisited Verona two years ago - its still FUN. They (the Italians) still take it all very seriously as an opera event and like you Jonny, I won't fork out 100 euro for this event at the O2, and don't think I would recommend it as an introduction to opera; when for the same price I can get a half decent ticket at the ROH, 3 very good tickets at Scottish opera or WNO or Opera north or even our dear friends at the DGOS (err sorry Opera Ireland) or four tickets for the Met HD series or four tickets for OTC here in Ireland. This particular Aida just seems to represent poor value for money. Its not about being snobbish Catchup its about spending your opera going budget wisely!

BTW Catchup I will try and keep the opera thread up to date with various thoughts on opera in ireland so keep tuned to that if you want to see about opportunities to go to the opera - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055707120

Sandwich

westtip wrote: »

for the same price I can get a half decent ticket at the ROH, 3 very good tickets at Scottish opera or WNO or Opera north or even our dear friends at the DGOS (err sorry Opera Ireland) or four tickets for the Met HD series or four tickets for OTC here in Ireland.QUOTE]

Or 8 (yes eight!) tickets for the gods in La Scala. (its a chore though)

westtip

Sandwich wrote: »

westtip wrote: »

for the same price I can get a half decent ticket at the ROH, 3 very good tickets at Scottish opera or WNO or Opera north or even our dear friends at the DGOS (err sorry Opera Ireland) or four tickets for the Met HD series or four tickets for OTC here in Ireland.QUOTE]

Or 8 (yes eight!) tickets for the gods in La Scala. (its a chore though)

Exactly couldn't put up with the opera snobs up there! Sounds like hard work ..... Now thats what I call good public subsidy of the arts. Lucky you.

I reckon this Aida at the O2 will get cancelled due to lack of ticket sales. it is justtoo expensive and things are very tight at the moment. There are plenty of tickets left for virtually all of OI's November season and there is only just over a week to go....so what chance this extravaganza

mambo

The day I (almost) became a Pharoah
Declan Cashin goes to Rome for a sneak preview of 'Aida'-- the mega opera spectacle that's coming to Dublin this Friday

http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/arts/the-day-i-almost-became-a-pharoah-1960530.html

A Keane

I was at it last night. It was spectacular certainly, spectacular in its awfulness.

To be clear: I'm a passing nobody with a passing interest who thought it would be nice to see something a little out of the ordinary. I ain't no Opera snob.

While I'm not in a position to be sure, not having had enough (any!) previous experience of going to Opera other than Cosi fan Tutte (even had to check the spelling of that) in the Gaiety in 2005, I thought the music and singing was fine.

However, and it is a very big HOWEVER, the stagecraft was embarassing, deplorable, ham-fisted amateur hour stuff which smacked of people, possibly the O2 stage crew (I do not know) simply not giving a f**k. Examples of this attitude were legion throughout, but for a sample:

1) Hammering and banging during 5 minute long breaks beween scenes to remove sets. (possibly added as much as a full half an hour to forty minutes to the running time) - Just who was that man in the Orange shirt?

2) Conductor being caught on film standing on rostrum with hand in pocket looking utterly disenchanted while waiting for scene to change.

3) Music for fanfare starting before the fanfare trumpeteers on stage had raised their trumpets!

4) Soldiers marching who couldn't march to save their life, and then being expected to do so down steps.*

* And as someone who had a friend attend the 'audition' and take part, I knew in advance that the crowd/chorus scenes were going to be 'interesting' I just didn't appreciate how 'interesting'. For the record, the extras did not get paid in cash, but with two tickets, which of course they themselves couldnt' use because, they were all backstage...


All told, Verdi was surely spinning in his grave last night. I know I would have been had I been him.


Finally, just to reiterate, I am not an Opera snob, I'm just a joe who knows when he's been had.


Best regards,
AK

JonnyBlackrock

Hi A Keane,
Thanks for that. I know it's tempting to gloat when suspicions are confirmed, but I'll resist the temptation.
It sounds like a terrible fiasco, and a 100 euro one for that, and that makes me very sad. It makes me sad that the organizers obviously didn't give a sod, and it makes me even sadder that they were convinced the audience here are so undiscerning that they'd probably get away with it.

ogriofa

A Keane wrote: »

I was at it last night. It was spectacular certainly, spectacular in its awfulness.

To be clear: I'm a passing nobody with a passing interest who thought it would be nice to see something a little out of the ordinary. I ain't no Opera snob.

While I'm not in a position to be sure, not having had enough (any!) previous experience of going to Opera other than Cosi fan Tutte (even had to check the spelling of that) in the Gaiety in 2005, I thought the music and singing was fine.

However, and it is a very big HOWEVER, the stagecraft was embarassing, deplorable, ham-fisted amateur hour stuff which smacked of people, possibly the O2 stage crew (I do not know) simply not giving a f**k. Examples of this attitude were legion throughout, but for a sample:

1) Hammering and banging during 5 minute long breaks beween scenes to remove sets. (possibly added as much as a full half an hour to forty minutes to the running time) - Just who was that man in the Orange shirt?

2) Conductor being caught on film standing on rostrum with hand in pocket looking utterly disenchanted while waiting for scene to change.

3) Music for fanfare starting before the fanfare trumpeteers on stage had raised their trumpets!

4) Soldiers marching who couldn't march to save their life, and then being expected to do so down steps.*

* And as someone who had a friend attend the 'audition' and take part, I knew in advance that the crowd/chorus scenes were going to be 'interesting' I just didn't appreciate how 'interesting'. For the record, the extras did not get paid in cash, but with two tickets, which of course they themselves couldnt' use because, they were all backstage...


All told, Verdi was surely spinning in his grave last night. I know I would have been had I been him.


Finally, just to reiterate, I am not an Opera snob, I'm just a joe who knows when he's been had.


Best regards,
AK

I have to agree with alllll of this.

Again the orchestra and the leads were very good.
The sur titles were over to each side of the stage and that has your eyeballs all over the place.

People were giving a slow clap to the crew at one stage, and while I think that behaviour is very rude, the more gaps between the acts we had to endure, I felt it was justified.

Surely that hard part it the music and the singing? Cause that was very good, verging on really good, but the production was terrible.
Very disappointed in the O2s handling of it. Wont go to another performance there that requires nay kind of stage mgnt.

JonnyBlackrock

Here's Michael Dervan's review from today's Irish Times:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/2009/1207/1224260241772.html

mambo

Punters phoning into the RTE Radio 1 LiveLine right now to complain about sound, subtitles, staging, etc.

"like a school production", "never seen such a travesty", "truly appaling", "a disgrace, like a pantomime", etc.

Listen live (or listen back to today's show once it's put up) at http://www.rte.ie/radio1/liveline/

Promoter Kieran Cavanagh from http://www.kcpconcerts.com/ was defending the production, but said there would be no refunds, though punters were of course free to go to the Small Claims Court ( http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/justice/courts-system/small_claims_court )

JonnyBlackrock

Yes, I've just been listening to it in the car. There are indeed a lot of disgruntled people out there. It looks like this is going to be a repeat of the Barbara Streisand debacle.

westtip

JonnyBlackrock wrote: »

Yes, I've just been listening to it in the car. There are indeed a lot of disgruntled people out there. It looks like this is going to be a repeat of the Barbara Streisand debacle.

Jonny they shoudl have listened to the "opera snobs" first! All of the fears that you and I expressed came true it seems this event has done nothing for the cause of opera.