What do you dislike about Metal?

Karl Hungus

Alrighty, this might be a controversial question, but in all seriousness, what is it you dislike in general about Metal?

For me, what I dislike the most, is the production. Often times, there's nearly no low-end, the drums can sound tinny and you can't hear the bass. I hate it when I pick up an album and it sounds like that. There's loads of running jokes about Metallica's And Justice For All album specifically about the lack of bass, and you think producers would've copped that the whole thin, tinny sounding metal thing just doesn't work. Give us some low end for crying out loud!

I've said it before, I think Enslaved's Monumension album has one of the best productions I've heard on a Metal album, it's raw, it's unpolished, but what's so great about it is that the bass absolutely roars! It sounds so much heavier, so much more powerful than a lot of other albums where the bass is seemingly cut out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5lSJL3rKC0

That's how powerful Metal can be if you leave the bass in.

Compare the above to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDfqG3f4zjM

The bass drums just sound puny, I really hate that clicky kind of sound. Just doesn't sound heavy at all.

So, what about you? What is it that bothers you about Metal?

Twilightning

One thing I dislike about metal is the fact that the genre in itself as a whole doesn't do the bass any justice. The guitars, drums, keyboards, etc **** all over them 95% of the time so you can't hear it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_yKpBPHJug

I love the bass intro to Caught in a Mosh, and I know if you listen hard enough you can just about hear the bass after the intro, but I think it should be given equal time! A bass solo or two wouldn't go amiss in metal.

Karl Hungus

Twilightning wrote: »

One thing I dislike about metal is the fact that the genre in itself as a whole doesn't do the bass any justice.

I find one place you're always likely to have prominent bass in Metal is in the instrumental, or technical side of things.

Take Gordian Knot for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2tIUzoQwcQ

That's the brainchild of bass player Sean Malone, so it stands to reason the bass is clear in it.

damonjewel

Yep the thin compressed sound is awful. Your example is a good one for showing the difference.

I'd go one further I am a big fan of early Hard Rock and Metal. I think at this time it was extremely heavy sounding in an organic way (e.g. sabbath, blue cheer, pentagram), I find most 'modern' metal not heavy at all, as if the heaviness is added as a post production thought. The only 'modern' metal I can really get my teeth into is sludge/stoner metal.

I think the style/album covers are extremely laughable, see outstanding albums covers thread for a complete slice of nonsense. Which is sad, metal always had humour, but for a genre of very serious musicianship, its difficult to see how it goes hand in hand with such puerility.

Back in the day, metal was not as divisive as it is these days. There was always common ground between different types of metal e.g. A motorhead fan who would also be into Twisted sister and faith no more, why because we just wanted to rock. However between different groups of metal types and even within a type of metal (Metallica and Megadeth) the sh1t slinging is unbelievable.

The increased need for speed and a hundred notes\double kick bass a second is lost on me. its been done and done and done again. Where's the feeling?

candy-gal1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXMobqWhpsk

what is the point of these?! :eek::mad:

Kess73

What I find funny is that when you get an album where the production is not top notch, it is normally an album by a band who defo can afford a great production.


I really hate the biscuit tin drum sound, and a weak bass on an album where I know there is a great bass player in the band bugs me a lot.



Another thing I hate about metal is not based on sound, but on people. Specifically people who seem to have to go out of their way to prove how "metal" they are.

When it is a kid doing it I can take it as that is just immaturity, and once they open their eyes to how much cool music there is out there, they normally calm down. I am thinking more along the lines of the 30yo who cannot stand any other music because it is not metal. Who rarely seems to know what is out and who is who in terms of bands, but he is too metal to care.

I used to work in a few music shops down through the years in Ireland, the UK and in Germany, and I have to say that it seems worse here than in the other countries.



What else do I hate?


Going into a bricks and morter cd shop and them expecting me to pay through the nose for metal albums and trying to bang on €10 to €15 onto the cd price because it is an "import" and metal is a so called minority music.


It bugs me because I get the same damn albums online for a fraction of the cost, and I know that metal is nowhere near the minority music that some shops claim, as cd sales will attest to. At least metal fans will generally buy albums instead of either downloading everything from free sites or trying to shoplift it.

Interestingly I have never had to take a metal cd from a shoplifter.



Next on the hate list. I hate comedy metal like the Darkness or Steel Panther. If I want sh*t in my music I would listen to the bands that you are trying to be a parody off, so fcuk off.


I hate the lack of good inlay cards. Anyone else used to loved reading them on your old records or cassettes? When you had the lyrics and generally a huge thank you list from the band, and often had pretty cool artwork there as well.


I also hate when bands I love make tits of themselves in interviews by trying to be hard ass middle age men (Kerry King I'm looking at you at lot at this point, and Scott Ian is catching up), but as long as the music is good I can usually get over this one.

Karl Hungus

damonjewel wrote: »

I think the style/album covers are extremely laughable, see outstanding albums covers thread for a complete slice of nonsense. Which is sad, metal always had humour, but for a genre of very serious musicianship, its difficult to see how it goes hand in hand with such puerility.

Hmm, I think puerility is a bit strong. I wouldn't be a fan of the stereotypical metal album art, but I think it's simply a case of horror-movie aesthetics for a lot of bands. So, in the sense that a horror film can have many extremely talented actors and other people working on it, you do have talented musicians in metal who's albums and lyrics are merely fantasy. Sometimes I think the criticism of album art is linked with the notion that metal is for kids, and that overtly 'metal' art is something childish. I dare say that a lot of metal album covers aren't a million miles away from some Prog Rock album covers either, I could see many a metal band with albums like this. Maybe something to think about?

On the subject of album art, I've already brought up Enslaved's Monumension in the first post with regards to it having one of my favourite metal productions, it also features one of my favourite album covers as well:



Other favourites would be Gojira's From Mars To Sirius, and Cathedral's Forest of Equilibrium:

Patricide

One of the things i hate about metal is the sheer number of generic bands that sound the exact same as everyone else, and even more so when bands like this get a following when brilliant innovative bands get forgotten about.

I also hate the elitism that seems to follow metal.

Schism

Patricide wrote: »

I also hate the elitism that seems to follow metal.

Very true. I consider myself to be a metal fan and generally I err on the heavier side of things but that doesn't mean I don't like a bit of catchy pop rock here and there.

mike65

Metal snobbery
Genre-baiting
Crass marketing
Rubbish airless mixing.

Patricide

Schism wrote: »

Very true. I consider myself to be a metal fan and generally I err on the heavier side of things but that doesn't mean I don't like a bit of catchy pop rock here and there.

Exactly, I could be listening to Paramore away happily then one of my friends would come in and give out **** about how its pussy music. I dont care, its pop rock. I also have another friend that is "never wrong about music ever" he only wants to listen to "Strong" music like cannibal corpse....give me a break like. To each there own but seriously sometimes people go overboard with musical snobbery. Yes i listen to Avril Lavigne, yes i listen to celene dion.......but i also listen to decapitated,deicide,nile,belphegor and behemoth too.....

damonjewel

Karl Hungus wrote: »

Hmm, I think puerility is a bit strong. I wouldn't be a fan of the stereotypical metal album art, but I think it's simply a case of horror-movie aesthetics for a lot of bands. So, in the sense that a horror film can have many extremely talented actors and other people working on it, you do have talented musicians in metal who's albums and lyrics are merely fantasy.

Maybe puerile is too strong but certainly juvenile? Interesting comparison but I think the difference here is that a horror movie is on the most part aimed at the over 18\mature market. Whereas I think your stereotypical metal album art is sensationalist and aimed at a younger audience.

Karl Hungus wrote: »

Sometimes I think the criticism of album art is linked with the notion that metal is for kids, and that overtly 'metal' art is something childish.

Its not just the album art, there are many other things in Metal that delivers the notion of metal being childish, e.g. the style, themes, the fashions, cookie monster singing, the gimicks. Whether its intentional on the bands behalf is debateable, but I think the comapnies and marketing managers do.

Karl Hungus wrote: »

I dare say that a lot of metal album covers aren't a million miles away from some Prog Rock album covers either, I could see many a metal band with albums like this. Maybe something to think about?

There are easily plenty of rubbish progrock albums covers. i always preferred the visual art of hipgnosis (Pretty much all of pink floyds covers) over the fantastical landscapes of Roger Dean (pretty much all of yes's album covers).

ride-the-spiral

I hate production on many an album, particularly black metal and a good few older death metal bands (I don't mind Death's sound from human but i can't stand Cannibal Corpse's Tomb of the Mutilated...)

ELITISTS, particularly the ones that claim that Metalcore and Deathcore aren't metal. Also the ones that only listen to Metallica and think your retarded if you don't like them.

Lack of diversity in alot of genres, i usually only listen to a few bands from each genre rather than alot from one because i find i get bored with some quickly.

The whole "GRR!!! METAL IS ANGER INCARNATE!" attitude. Seriously, just because i like heavy music doesn't mean I have an overabundance of testosterone and need to constantly vent my anger.

D.Q

Things I hate about metal.

1/. Stereotypical metal fans. You see this missing link at most metal gigs. These guys must literally be, the toughest guys in the WHOLE world. Wow don't mess with him, he wears spikes and likes SLAYYYYYURRRRRGGGGHHHH. He can also drink loads of alcohol and be EVEN MORE obnoxious. This attitude is fine at 15. But add ten years on, its embarrassing.

2/. The tendency to forget the song as a whole. Some bands these days seem to be all about technicality. This for me is great...in context. But when its just constant speed/technical prowess in favour of a well written, well put together song, it grows stale, fast.

3/. The generic bands that seem to populate the tv channels.

*This just in..."Metallica? Yeah they've actually already happened, hmm?you didnt hear? seriously...it was in the eighties, spanning into the nineties and noughties, HUGE TOURS, millions of records sold. Maybe its time to TRY something new rather than recycling someone elses songs*

Greyham

i know its broad, but metal songs that neglect melody piss me off hugely , so many songs are all about the hard , driving beats that they seem to forget there is an essential ingredient missing , a full , well complimented melody, this is one of the reason i like metallica , im not a huge metal fan , but some of their melodies are simply incredible

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

a few things i dont like about metal, the really nerdy metal fans that think they know everything about metal and turn it into a competition, also if they dont like a band, they will put them down at any given opportunity, e.g. look at any trivium video on youtube, I dont like some bands, but i dont log into youtube to leave nasty comments on their videos. And will also b1tch about people they dont agree with on youtube.

Also, some guitar solos i just dont like, they are too fast, and lack melody. e.g. dragon force. Having a good melody in a solo is more important than speed, in my opinion, a great (metal)solo has both, speed and melody.

cookie monster vocals

well thats my 2 cents,
Not sure if thats the kind of post the op intended, or if you wanted more of a music production post. For the record im not a massive metal fan, im more into rock at the moment. I had a 2-3 year period where I was big into metal

Karl Hungus

damonjewel wrote: »

Maybe puerile is too strong but certainly juvenile? Interesting comparison but I think the difference here is that a horror movie is on the most part aimed at the over 18\mature market. Whereas I think your stereotypical metal album art is sensationalist and aimed at a younger audience.

Its not just the album art, there are many other things in Metal that delivers the notion of metal being childish, e.g. the style, themes, the fashions, cookie monster singing, the gimicks. Whether its intentional on the bands behalf is debateable, but I think the comapnies and marketing managers do.

There are easily plenty of rubbish progrock albums covers. i always preferred the visual art of hipgnosis (Pretty much all of pink floyds covers) over the fantastical landscapes of Roger Dean (pretty much all of yes's album covers).

Hmm, I really like the Yes album covers.

As far as distorted vocals (I refuse to use the term 'cookie monster' vocals) go, I can't see why anyone could consider it any more childish than distorted guitars. I see the voice as an instrument like any other, and given the notion that someone will alter the tone of their guitar with distortion, I don't see it as anything different to a vocalist altering the tone and texture of their voice to produce a more intense and powerful sound.

I think Dave Vincent is a great example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp1TmPo35yM

I love his voice, it just sounds so heavy, and adds a lot to the overall sound of the band. It just wouldn't be the same if it was someone with an undistorted vocal style was singing, it wouldn't have that same texture and depth. So in as much as I'll love a singer's vocals because they might have great vocal melody, the tone and texture of their vocals is probably what I appreciate the most.

Another good example is Carl McCoy, that depth and texture of his voice is something I really like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3hIr2K9PHQ

It's also the sense that an extreme style of music calls for an extreme style of vocal. That's not to say that I like distorted vocals in general, quite a lot of singers do it extremely well and sound fantastic like Mikael from Opeth, but I would say that there's a hell of a lot of vocalists with distorted styles who sound absolutely dreadful. I'll give you an example, I think the new singer for Cryptopsy sounds absolutely dire, so give him a listen to here. Compare his vocals to the videos I posted above, it's really quite awful.

So yeah, I'd certainly recognize that a lot of metal can be childish, and that there's a lot of it that is marketed to teens and younger listeners, but not for the reasons you say.

damonjewel

Karl Hungus wrote: »

So yeah, I'd certainly recognize that a lot of metal can be childish, and that there's a lot of it that is marketed to teens and younger listeners, but not for the reasons you say.

what other reasons would you say makes a lot of metal childish? if its not the reasons I'm saying (the style, themes, the fashions, cookie monster singing, the gimmicks)

RayCon

I have to agree with all the things that have been said about both the Music-Snobbery of Metal Fans (and I empathise too - I was once that idiot:() and the "Im Hard" attitude of "some" Metal fans (I was never that type of idiot) .. nothing worse than been purposely "bumped into" by some Metal "Fan" in Bruxelles cos you don't look like one of them .... :rolleyes:

Nephilim Wolf

Karl Hungus wrote: »

I've said it before, I think Enslaved's Monumension album has one of the best productions I've heard on a Metal album, it's raw, it's unpolished, but what's so great about it is that the bass absolutely roars! It sounds so much heavier, so much more powerful than a lot of other albums where the bass is seemingly cut out.

'Monumension is a fantastic metal album both in terms of well crafted songs and great song titles. 'The Sleep: Floating Diversity - A Monument Part III' is a stunning finish to the album, and for some reason it reminds me of Fields of The Nephilim.

I can think of a couple of things that I really hate/dislike about metal at the moment.

Not sound related, but when people jump down your throat or mock you for not liking bands that are currently very popular like Devildriver, Heaven And Hell, Opeth, Mastodon, Children of Bodom, Down, Pantera, New Metallica, Arch Enemy and Airbourne.:mad: The Metal Hammer forum is a very good example, because thats the feeling I get.:mad:

Non existent booklets in cds. I really really hate those thin two page booklets that you get in some albums, especially the old ones. What I love are booklets that have a lot inner notes, photos and other info.

Complete lack of a metal section in the likes of HMV, mainly in the Square. The metal section there is really bad. Most of the artists/bands they have there are absolutely terrible. They never have anything like Amorphis, Paradise Lost, Emperor, Old Man's Child or Katatonia. It's mostly crap mainstream metal.

The way people in here in Ireland pretty much expect you to dress in black just because you listen to metal. I don't dress in any black at all, and I don't feel obliged to either. Some people also seem to have the attitude that they are more metal, more tougher than you because they dress in black and have long hair.

Price of metal cds in shops on the high street. It really pains and annoys me to have to pay 25 to 35 euro for a cd that was either ordered in, or is an import.:mad:

Patricide

Nephilim Wolf wrote: »

'Monumension is a fantastic metal album both in terms of well crafted songs and great song titles. 'The Sleep: Floating Diversity - A Monument Part III' is a stunning finish to the album, and for some reason it reminds me of Fields of The Nephilim.

I can think of a couple of things that I really hate/dislike about metal at the moment.

Not sound related, but when people jump down your throat or mock you for not liking bands that are currently very popular like Devildriver, Heaven And Hell, Opeth, Mastodon, Children of Bodom, Down, Pantera, New Metallica, Arch Enemy and Airbourne.:mad: The Metal Hammer forum is a very good example, because thats the feeling I get.:mad:

Non existent booklets in cds. I really really hate those thin two page booklets that you get in some albums, especially the old ones. What I love are booklets that have a lot inner notes, photos and other info.

Complete lack of a metal section in the likes of HMV, mainly in the Square. The metal section there is really bad. Most of the artists/bands they have there are absolutely terrible. They never have anything like Amorphis, Paradise Lost, Emperor, Old Man's Child or Katatonia. It's mostly crap mainstream metal.

The way people in here in Ireland pretty much expect you to dress in black just because you listen to metal. I don't dress in any black at all, and I don't feel obliged to either. Some people also seem to have the attitude that they are more metal, more tougher than you because they dress in black and have long hair.

Price of metal cds in shops on the high street. It really pains and annoys me to have to pay 25 to 35 euro for a cd that was either ordered in, or is an import.:mad:

Well count your lucky stars you have a metal section, they got rid of the one in one of the two record stores in Tralee.

Nephilim Wolf

Patricide wrote: »

Well count your lucky stars you have a metal section, they got rid of the one in one of the two record stores in Tralee.

That really sucks.:mad: They probably think that metal is'nt a popular enough music genre to warrant it's own music section. It would be very interesting to know what their reply would be if you asked them "why don't you have a metal section anymore?" They would probably reply that it just does'nt sell well or something equally stuck up.:rolleyes:

Karl Hungus

Buy online guys, you can get 2 or 3 albums online for the price they charge you for 1 some places in Ireland.

damonjewel wrote: »

what other reasons would you say makes a lot of metal childish? if its not the reasons I'm saying (the style, themes, the fashions, cookie monster singing, the gimmicks)

Well, like I said, I don't believe there's anything childish about distorted vocal styles. I think you'll have to elaborate a little on the gimmicks though, what do you mean there?

I'd say that these days there's a lot more commercial, manufactured kind of metal that's aimed squarely at young, teen audiences. Bands like Paramore, Avenged Sevenfold and so on.

Kess73

Karl Hungus wrote: »

Buy online guys, you can get 2 or 3 albums online for the price they charge you for 1 some places in Ireland.

Yep it is the best way to go for cds, blu ray, and console games.

As an example I got the film The Host on blu ray through amazon and it was 6.98 before p&p. In my local HMV I was told that they could order it in for me, and that it would be 31.99. Now even when the p&p is added and the currency converted, I am still getting it for about a tenner all in from Amazon.

So paying an extra 21.99 for it is a joke. The way I see it, if high street stores want to sell in Ireland at stupid prices, then I will buy online instead.


Why have one film or cd when you can buy two or three for the same money.

GhostInTheRuins

Nephilim Wolf wrote: »

Non existent booklets in cds. I really really hate those thin two page booklets that you get in some albums, especially the old ones.

Yeah but generally those old cds with only the bare minimum booklet have better sound quality than remasters of the same album, so it's usually a case of which you prefer, reading detailed linear notes or the best sound quality possible.

Patricide

Nephilim Wolf wrote: »

That really sucks.:mad: They probably think that metal is'nt a popular enough music genre to warrant it's own music section. It would be very interesting to know what their reply would be if you asked them "why don't you have a metal section anymore?" They would probably reply that it just does'nt sell well or something equally stuck up.:rolleyes:

We did ask them, there answer was metal just doesn't do the numbers anymore.

kevin_de_big

Contrived structures and a general lack of vim on the band's part are generally preventative for me.

Blandness essentially.

jpm4

The fact that there doesn't to be anything really new or exciting happening in the genre anymore - there is nothing that is really shaping the sound like Death or Black metal back in the early to mid 90s, everything just sounds like genres cut and pasted together now. The genre seems kinda tired to me, but I guess that would depend on how long you have been listening to it.

Patricide

jpm4 wrote: »

The fact that there doesn't to be anything really new or exciting happening in the genre anymore - there is nothing that is really shaping the sound like Death or Black metal back in the early to mid 90s, everything just sounds like genres cut and pasted together now. The genre seems kinda tired to me, but I guess that would depend on how long you have been listening to it.

I dunno Gojiras sound is kinda original. sure there's a bit of morbid angel in there but i think marios drumming keeps it interesting. Then there are bands like meshuggah who are often copied but never equaled and even if you hate them lamb of god have there own distinctive sound(bar the whole into the pit rip off i havent heard another band sound too alike them). Im sure I could name plenty of other bands too but its 4.30 in the morning and i need sleep!!

the_syco

Karl Hungus wrote: »

As far as distorted vocals

The voice must be distorted, I feel, for certain types of music. Listening to someone trying to growl down the mic for sludgy foom metal doesn't feel right.

As for the guitars, I'm one of those misguided souls who love wanky guitar solos along the lines of Hammerfall, etc, singing about viking, war, loss, etc.

Dyr

jimmy undergrounds
the "scene".
hyping bands as ground breaking when it's just the heavy metal scene catching up with ten years ago.
calling stuff like opeth "progressive".