M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

jenningso

antoobrien wrote: »

Nothing new in any of that, he made the same comments after the last general and council election. People being slow, however, doesn't explain the two mile tailback every Saturday there with people trying to get into town (I'd hate to see what this road is like at about 8.30am on a weekday when i'm not around).

Lookin at the figures from 2006-present it's averaging more that 22k vehicles since 2006. In 1997 the road carried just less than 16k average per day. This increased steadily (except 2001) until it peaked in 2007 with over 23.5k (hitting nearly 25k in summer).

This is why I hope they build from athenry north first. On the other hand Gort rarely hits 12k cars per day.

I have always believed that the stats for Claregalway are misleading. The current cold snap has revealed the truth: that several thousand more cars take back-road routes into Galway every day, avoiding the traffic counters on the N17. Now, I'm not going to reveal the routes, but a quick look at a map would reveal all; locals know them, but we couldn't have everybody hurtling down back-roads every day! Or can we, NRA?

Back to my point, the cold weather has forced us all back onto the main N17 (from the untreated back-roads) and we can all see the problems. The traffic lights in Claregalway are a joke. How in the world is a national primary route blocked by such traffic lights in the middle of a small village (Don't get me started on Traffic Light Maintenance and sequencing!). What about a simple pedestrian bridge for locals and a new signalled roundabout to replace the current junction. You would imagine that this work could be done in 8 weeks easily. But alas, inherent bureacracy means 8 years. A bypass can never be ruled out, but couldn't we just try and perfect what we've got.

All this talk about the M17/M18 will not solve the traffic problems in Claregalway, as the local commuters in the hinterland between Tuam and Galway will continue to travel on the existing N17. It's because we will all have to consider the current bottleneck at the end of the M6 into Galway. Imagine how it will be when the M17/M18 traffic is thrown into the mix and we have no Galway City outer bypass in the works!!

Don't get me wrong, I can't wait to see the new M17/M18 making progress, but it's the joined up thinking surrounding it all that's missing!:rolleyes:

Sponge Bob

jenningso wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I can't wait to see the new M17/M18 making progress, but it's the joined up thinking surrounding it all that's missing!:rolleyes:

But But But .....Noel Grealish was PROMISED the Claregalway Bypass in the programme for Government back in 2007.

antoobrien

jenningso wrote: »

I have always believed that the stats for Claregalway are misleading. The current cold snap has revealed the truth: that several thousand more cars take back-road routes into Galway every day, avoiding the traffic counters on the N17.

Agreed, but try telling that to people. A comment was made in the office (I work in Dublin) that the roads were so busy because people weren't using the usual shortcuts due to the state of these roads.

jenningso wrote: »

All this talk about the M17/M18 will not solve the traffic problems in Claregalway, as the local commuters in the hinterland between Tuam and Galway will continue to travel on the existing N17. It's because we will all have to consider the current bottleneck at the end of the M6 into Galway. Imagine how it will be when the M17/M18 traffic is thrown into the mix and we have no Galway City outer bypass in the works!!

This is a major concern, especially when you consider the stats for the counter 6 km up the tuam road. The traffic coming from the N17 only accounts for about 60% of the traffic using claregalway. NRA are hoping for a 75% reduction. I'd love to get some data for the N63 and the Athenry to Tuam Road to see where traffic is coming from and what other routes are being used to avoid Claregalway.

gally74

this is super news!!! this road will really open up the west of ireland, secondly it will help commuters in Galway.

the N17 is a very dangerous road, heres to the miltown part coming up soon aswell.

Brabus

Here's an interesting piece I saw on "Ear to the Ground" last night,

http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1086987

The 1st item about the M18's impact on future flooding in Gort/Kiltartan.

antoobrien

Preparation work is to start on this in the new year, in the form of a habitat for a endangered species of bats that has apparently become extinct across Europe. This has to be put in place before the road works which may interfere with the local habitats

ei.sdraob

There was an article in the connaught tribune yesterday about them considering putting in heated pipes into the new motorway to keep it ice free, sorry have no links

Sponge Bob

They should consider heated pipes on western motorways simply because we need a dump policy for surplus wind generated electricity at night ...and that surplus will be in the west if anywhere

The Galway Bypass would be a good test location for the pipes...it being nearest the greatest surplus of wind. That and any road they may build in Donegal in future.

Chris_5339762

A line of solar panels down the side of the road linked up to pipes under the road. In a similar vein to hot water heaters on rooftops. Would easily keep the road clear of most of the ice.

KevR

ei.sdraob wrote: »

There was an article in the connaught tribune yesterday about them considering putting in heated pipes into the new motorway to keep it ice free, sorry have no links

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

A line of solar panels down the side of the road linked up to pipes under the road. In a similar vein to hot water heaters on rooftops. Would easily keep the road clear of most of the ice.

Extract from the following article:

In summer our tarmac road surfaces generate an incredible amount of heat. If you have ever touched or walked barefoot across a tarmac road you will have noticed that the road surface is very hot, that is because tarmac acts as a giant solar panel.

In Holland they are experimenting with tarmac heating. Approximately 33m sq of tarmac is required to heat each 100m sq of a house. A small area of tarmac (10 x 40m) can generate 108mW of energy per annum.
The system works by storing heat in aquifers in the ground and then it can be pumped up for heating purposes in the winter. In addition co2 emmissions are reduced by between 50% and 90% and there are many other benefits as well.

Typically, an airport runway could heat 2500 homes !
It’s been calculated in Holland that if 15% of Dutch roadways had the Road Energy System, more energy than all the combined utilities in Holland would be produced.

The lifespan of roads is prolonged about two-fold as they can be kept cool during the summer and frost-free during the winter. Resurfacing costs are typically halved as maintenance is reduced accordingly. Traffic jams are decreased as there’s reduced road maintenance and bad weather doesn’t impede drivers as badly.

Icy surfaces don’t have to be sprayed with salt – an obvious cost saving for local authorities and an ideal solution for airports (it’s not possible to spray airport runways with salt; the Road Energy System resolves the problem of ice on runways).

Another article about the same concept.

I've always been fascinated by the idea of having heated roads. Up until now, I thought that heated roads would require massive amounts of energy which made them unviable. But if roads could use/store their own heat in the summer for de-icing in the winter then that would be awesome! Not sure if it would be hot enough in Ireland for there to be an energy surplus which could be used to power homes though..

Is road heating technology proven enough for it to be installed in a huge motorway scheme like the M17/18 (56km)?? Maybe the technology should be trialled on a number of smaller schemes before it is used in future bigger schemes (like the M20 or GCOB).

Going off-topic, but if Dublin Airport ever gets a second runway then heating like this should be seriously looked at. Likewise for the third runway at Heathrow and the second runway at Stansted (again, assuming that they ever get built). It would really help reduce travel chaos caused by runway closures for snow clearing and de-icing.

sdanseo

Whatever about heated pipes - would a grid of heater element just under the road surface not do the job; not unlike on the rear windscren of your car (albeit scaled up)?

KevR

I think they tried that on a few sections of road in the UK and it didn't work very well. A huge amount of energy is required to heat a road to a warm enough temperature to melt ice and snow. We wouldn't really have huge amounts of surplus energy in our national grid so it wouldn't be viably (also, it wouldn't be environmentally friendly because we use a lot of fossil fuels for our electricity). Also, I think the heated coil system that was used in the UK kept breaking down and was costly to repair/service.

I think the solution being developed in Holland might be the way to go.

antoobrien

KevR wrote: »

Going off-topic, but if Dublin Airport ever gets a second runway

It already has, there's one running North-South and one running East-West - the north south one really bugged me when the wind shifted and they started coming in over my gaff

L1011

antoobrien wrote: »

It already has, there's one running North-South and one running East-West - the north south one really bugged me when the wind shifted and they started coming in over my gaff

It has an effective total of 1, as those runways interfere. The plans for another runway is to have one paralleling the existing east-west one.

runway16

KevR wrote: »

Extract from the following article:


Another article about the same concept.

I've always been fascinated by the idea of having heated roads. Up until now, I thought that heated roads would require massive amounts of energy which made them unviable. But if roads could use/store their own heat in the summer for de-icing in the winter then that would be awesome! Not sure if it would be hot enough in Ireland for there to be an energy surplus which could be used to power homes though..

Is road heating technology proven enough for it to be installed in a huge motorway scheme like the M17/18 (56km)?? Maybe the technology should be trialled on a number of smaller schemes before it is used in future bigger schemes (like the M20 or GCOB).

Going off-topic, but if Dublin Airport ever gets a second runway then heating like this should be seriously looked at. Likewise for the third runway at Heathrow and the second runway at Stansted (again, assuming that they ever get built). It would really help reduce travel chaos caused by runway closures for snow clearing and de-icing.

Dublin actually has 3 runways - and two can be used at the same time for take offs, but only when the wind is agreeable and visibility is good. As such, it is not really an answer to the lack of capacity and another runway paralell to the East - west runway is needed

IngazZagni

runway16 wrote: »

Dublin actually has 3 runways - and two can be used at the same time for take offs, but only when the wind is agreeable and visibility is good. As such, it is not really an answer to the lack of capacity and another runway paralell to the East - west runway is needed

Dublin only has two runways. Runway 11/29 is not operational anymore. Furthermore the other two runways can not be used at the same time even for take-off. This is outlined in the following document.


http://www.iaa.ie/safe_reg/iaip/Published%20Files/AIP%20Files/AD/EI_AD_2_EIDW_en.pdf

The proposed 2nd separate runway would replace the former 11/29 to the north of the field and continue further west. However I feel this is unlikely to happen for some time as the traffic is just not there to warrant building it.

edit: This should really be in the T2 thread.

yer man!

Any update on the M18? is it likely to start this year? I know it's gone to tender but still....

runway16

I think you need to check your facts there: runway 28 and 34 are being used simultaneously between 0630 and 0800 for take offs to cut departure delays. This had been happening for months now. In addition runway 11/29 is still a runway, and can be brought back into operation at any time....it probably won't be, but it is still there....

antoobrien

yer man! wrote: »

Any update on the M18? is it likely to start this year? I know it's gone to tender but still....

The preferred tender was announced in September, with construction due to start sometime early this year.

gally74

I drove from corofin to athenry roday and some clearance work seems to have started near annagh hill and then further down again,

ei.sdraob

Sorry if this was already covered, where will the toll (if any?) be located on the m6<>tuam side of this motorway? if anyone knows, i know the posts at start of thread in 2007 say no tolls but economic climate has changed

L1011

There isn't going to be a toll.

Fozzie Bear

gally74 wrote: »

I drove from corofin to athenry roday and some clearance work seems to have started near annagh hill and then further down again,

Ya I drove to Dublin and back today and seen that. Loads of traffic cones, road signage and three 12/15 ton excavators (one with a rock breaker) on site. They seem to have levelled off a few loads of rock and pushed it into the field right beside the motorway. Looks like they are building a temporary roadway/access maybe into the field? Looks like something fairly substantial is happening with the three track machines there and sh!t load of road cones laid out.

Irish and Proud

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

Ya I drove to Dublin and back today and seen that. Loads of traffic cones, road signage and three 12/15 ton excavators (one with a rock breaker) on site. They seem to have levelled off a few loads of rock and pushed it into the field right beside the motorway. Looks like they are building a temporary roadway/access maybe into the field? Looks like something fairly substantial is happening with the three track machines there and sh!t load of road cones laid out.

AFAIK, there was a fencing contract related to the M17/N18 scheme advertised on e-tenders - as a matter of interest, I wonder is that done yet?

Great news if this road is under way though!

ei.sdraob

For some reason OSI already show the m18 as crossing the m6

http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,546960,727078,4

glineli

So can we take it they are building Tuam to M6 first? Awful shame they didnt do the M18/M6 interchange when building the M6. That would have saved a lot of time on this project

antoobrien

glineli wrote: »

So can we take it they are building Tuam to M6 first?

The original plan was for two projects for this, spilt by the M6, it's now one scheme.

glineli wrote: »

Awful shame they didnt do the M18/M6 interchange when building the M6. That would have saved a lot of time on this project

While building it under the assumption that this road was going ahead makes some sense, it wasn't up to the consortium building the N6 to build this and the contract for this scheme was only awarded/preferred tender announce in September. Besides, there was a lot of discussion about the importance of this scheme and hoping that this wouldn't be canned in the 4 year plan etc.

dloob

glineli wrote: »

So can we take it they are building Tuam to M6 first? Awful shame they didnt do the M18/M6 interchange when building the M6. That would have saved a lot of time on this project

I believe they left room for the interchange, there is part of the M6 which has an extra wide hard shoulder.
To do the full interchange would have saved time on the M18 but would have delayed the M6, and some confused driver would probably find a way onto it.

antoobrien

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Sorry if this was already covered, where will the toll (if any?) be located on the m6<>tuam side of this motorway? if anyone knows, i know the posts at start of thread in 2007 say no tolls but economic climate has changed

MYOB wrote: »

There isn't going to be a toll.

The first I remember this coming up was back in October (discussion starts about here). There was an article indicating a raft of new tolls but on the scheme website they state that there are no tolls and I don't believe that theres planning permission for one (i'm not sure if the buildings etc require one, but it's not included on the information i've seen).

Tech3

glineli wrote: »

So can we take it they are building Tuam to M6 first?

Nope all of it will open together. I can't imagine what a journey from Sligo to Limerick will take when this finishes. Its 2hr50 mins now at peak post Gort-Crusheen. It was 3hr5 mins. I would estimate it will be reduced to 2hr15 mins which is remarkable given we still have some poor sections if N17 mainly from Tubbercurry-Collooney.

I actually can't wait to see the contract signed and diggers on site. Its due to be signed before the end of this month.