M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

Iwannahurl

I often travel to NI via Tuam. By the time the time the M17/18 is complete, it will no longer be relevant to me (due to changing personal circumstances) as I'm highly unlikely to have any reason for travelling in that direction.

However, I'm still curious: if travelling to the Donegal and Derry region, will taking the M17/18 instead of the old N17 route make sense?

glineli

f2 wrote: »

Its been reported Bam are back in the picture to build M17

Did they win the original tendor? So does this mean it doesnt need to be retendered and they have financing in place?

munchkin_utd

Iwannahurl wrote: »

<snip>

However, I'm still curious: if travelling to the Donegal and Derry region, will taking the M17/18 instead of the old N17 route make sense?

Thats a strange question.

How would it make sense to crawl from Gort to Oranmore on a windy road, then trundle to and through Claregalway only to then go through the middle of Tuam then before meeting the end of the motorway that you could have taken in the first place ?

Iwannahurl

That's a strange answer. Not sure we're talking about the same thing?

I'm just vaguely wondering (hypothetically, since by the time the motorway is complete I will no longer be travelling to Derry from Galway with any frequency, or possibly not at all) whether the motorway will shave enough time off the trip to Tuam to make diverting to it worthwhile.

Just wondering is all. It may well be the case, even with bottlenecks along the N17, that any potential travel time saved is negated by the time taken to reach the motorway from Galway.

http://www.bmwassembly.ie/images/Gort_Tuam_Motorway.jpg

Padkir

Iwannahurl wrote: »

That's a strange answer. Not sure we're talking about the same thing?

I'm just vaguely wondering (hypothetically, since by the time the motorway is complete I will no longer be travelling to Derry from Galway with any frequency, or possibly not at all) whether the motorway will shave enough time off the trip to Tuam to make diverting to it worthwhile.

Just wondering is all. It may well be the case, even with bottlenecks along the N17, that any potential travel time saved is negated by the time taken to reach the motorway from Galway.

http://www.bmwassembly.ie/images/Gort_Tuam_Motorway.jpg

You'd easily be on the motorway by the time you'd be through Claregalway; apart from maybe late night when there's no traffic.

Once you're in that situation, would you prefer a motorway or the old N17 to get to Tuam? For me (and I'd be brazen to say almost everyone else here) motorway win hands down.

Iwannahurl

That's the point: is it six of one and half a dozen of the other, depending on time of travel?

The DoT says:

It connects to the M6 motorway east of Oranmore
It provides a bypass of Tuam at the northern end
It acts as a bypass of Claregalway.

Avoiding Tuam and Claregalway would save time, but taking the M6 route to "east of Oranmore" from west of Galway City to link up with this new motorway might well cancel that out, or reduce the time saved to a non-significant level, depending on traffic conditions.

I'm merely curious. As I said, my need to travel that route will have gone long before the motorway is completed. I just happen to hate the N17 with a passion -- never understood the Sawdoctors' infatuation.

EDIT: Of course, what may well happen is that the new motorway will take traffic off the N17, thereby improving travel times on that route. That'll work for a while, unless induced traffic or motorists' route preferences creates some sort of equilibrium...

jenningso

The old N17 will be downgraded to a regional classification and therefore 80km/hr. So, as you can see, motorway will win hands down at 120km/HR. Simples....

Iwannahurl wrote: »

That's a strange answer. Not sure we're talking about the same thing?

I'm just vaguely wondering (hypothetically, since by the time the motorway is complete I will no longer be travelling to Derry from Galway with any frequency, or possibly not at all) whether the motorway will shave enough time off the trip to Tuam to make diverting to it worthwhile.

Just wondering is all. It may well be the case, even with bottlenecks along the N17, that any potential travel time saved is negated by the time taken to reach the motorway from Galway.

http://www.bmwassembly.ie/images/Gort_Tuam_Motorway.jpg

yer man!

jenningso wrote: »

The old N17 will be downgraded to a regional classification and therefore 80km/hr. So, as you can see, motorway will win hands down at 120km/HR. Simples....

They said the same thing about the old N6 until they were forced to put it back to 100km/h

jenningso

I did not know that, I have not been on the N6 since the motorway opened. Wow, I'd never have thought they'd get away with 100km/hr on a regional road. Although, it does make sense in this instance, as the road doesn't become any less able to handle speeds due to its classification! Even though this logic wasn't followed elsewhere. So, is it 100km/hr all the way to athlone?

yer man! wrote: »

They said the same thing about the old N6 until they were forced to put it back to 100km/h

Iwannahurl

yer man! wrote: »

They said the same thing about the old N6 until they were forced to put it back to 100km/h

I'd be interested to know how traffic flow has changed along the old N6 route since the M6 opened. Are such things studied, I wonder?

By the way, what forced the restoration of the 100 km/h limit?

Cash is king

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I'd be interested to know how traffic flow has changed along the old N6 route since the M6 opened. Are such things studied, I wonder?

By the way, what forced the restoration of the 100 km/h limit?

I use it some bit and its always empty apart from the odd farmer etc but I was suprised at the 100kph limit.

Back to your suggestion Google maps seems to suggest the distance from Gort to Tuam is the same as the new motorway. Won't it make sense to be doing 120kph or stuck behind some local redneck doing 60kph. Anyway you have nearly 4 years to choose your route!!!!!!:D

Sponge Bob

speed limits should be a function of road type/alignment/sightlines etc. There are 120kph Dual carriageways and 80kph Motorways in Ireland.

A Greenway will be needed Galway <> Claregalway given how congested the old N17 will continue to be south of Claregalway. I don't see much going on developing one though.

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

By the way, what forced the restoration of the 100 km/h limit?

It was not dropped in Galway but it was reduced between Athlone & Kilbeggan. I'd have to check but IIRC the policy (if now law) was to have R roads at 80km/h.

This was changed because it was a bit silly that one day it was "capable" of holding 100km/h traffic, the next it wasn't despite no changes to the roads.

It's a bit like some of the oddities we see on the approach toads to Galway - the side roads (L) have higher limits than the main ones (R&N).

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I'd be interested to know how traffic flow has changed along the old N6 route since the M6 opened. Are such things studied, I wonder?

The counters indicate that at Kilreekil ("bypassed" by the tolled section) traffic is down 60% from the peak figures, with the tolled section carrying as much traffic as the N6 would have in 2006 (just before car use topped out). It's currently about 1,000 vehicles behind peak usage of the N6.

There's no current counter information for corresponding areas on the other sections of the motorway, but it is significantly down and it's best witnessed when trying to turn right onto/off it e.g. coming out of Athenry on the way to Oranmore. They stopped publishing counts at Derrydonnel in 2005, but the relevant section of motorway is carrying more traffic than the N6 did at the time.

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Just wondering is all. It may well be the case, even with bottlenecks along the N17, that any potential travel time saved is negated by the time taken to reach the motorway from Galway.

Realistically if we take Parkmore as a starting point, you'll be on the M17 before you get through the 50km/h zone past Claregalway village (assuming "normal" traffic on both roads).

The closer to the city, the less sense it makes to take claregalway as access to the multi lane roads makes it easier to get out of town.

Sponge Bob

And as there is no junction between proposed the bypass and the old n17 then it really makes no sense to drop off the bypass in Ballindooley, come into town and then along Bothar na dTreabh to get to the old Tuam Road if coming from the west. Once the traffic is out of town ....keep it out of town.

munchkin_utd

Iwannahurl wrote: »

That's a strange answer. Not sure we're talking about the same thing?

I'm just vaguely wondering (hypothetically, since by the time the motorway is complete I will no longer be travelling to Derry from Galway with any frequency, or possibly not at all) whether the motorway will shave enough time off the trip to Tuam to make diverting to it worthwhile.

Just wondering is all. It may well be the case, even with bottlenecks along the N17, that any potential travel time saved is negated by the time taken to reach the motorway from Galway.

http://www.bmwassembly.ie/images/Gort_Tuam_Motorway.jpg

you did not at any stage say you were living or travelling from Galway City and your question was mentioning the both the M17/ M18 - the M18 which is the motorway from Gort to the M6 and M17 from the M6 to north of Tuam.

If travelling from Galway City via the M6+M17 to north of Tuam you would not have anything to do with the M18 except turn your arse to it as you join the M17

so obviousy if you mention both motorways you are on about a journey from Gort (or nearby) to beyond Tuam

tonc76

Iwannahurl wrote: »

That's a strange answer. Not sure we're talking about the same thing?

I'm just vaguely wondering (hypothetically, since by the time the motorway is complete I will no longer be travelling to Derry from Galway with any frequency, or possibly not at all) whether the motorway will shave enough time off the trip to Tuam to make diverting to it worthwhile.

Just wondering is all. It may well be the case, even with bottlenecks along the N17, that any potential travel time saved is negated by the time taken to reach the motorway from Galway.

http://www.bmwassembly.ie/images/Gort_Tuam_Motorway.jpg

I think its strange that there has been no mention of the increased safety of driving on a motorway v single carriageway roads. You're 7 times more likely to be involved in an incident on a single carriageway road than on a motorway. Do you consider that worthwhile?

yer man!

antoobrien wrote: »

It was not dropped in Galway but it was reduced between Athlone & Kilbeggan. I'd have to check but IIRC the policy (if now law) was to have R roads at 80km/h.

Well there was an 80km/h sign on the old N6 near derrydonnell for several weeks once the motorway opened, it was then changed to 100km/h.

antoobrien

There's a letter in today's Galway advertiser that I think should be shared. It appears to be related to this project, although there is no project named in the letter.

A once-in-a-lifetime opportunity with a six-fold all-round benefit?

This €450m project will take three years, employ hundreds of workers, and require millions of tons of rock-fill as a foundation for the road. The following daring, imaginative, and innovative proposal would halve the cost and enhance the visual and aesthetic appearance of the Galway landscape.

The idea is that instead of blasting scenic hills etc. for rock-fill, the now unused, unsightly stonewalls on all Co Galway farms and lands be used as a speedy, ready-made landfill for the project. Farmers and landowners would be delighted to get stones removed. And the land and scenery would be restored to its natural, aesthetic integrity, enhancing visual perspective and tourism potential. Stonewalls are a blight and eyesore on the landscape, and bear a connotation of poverty of people and soil, totally artificial and unnatural.

Fifty years ago, Fine Gael leader James Dillon was appalled and embarrassed on a visit to the west on seeing the barren, bleak stonewalls. He suggested that they all be dumped into the sea. People with an eye for natural, unbroken, green landscape would agree. So would Bord Failte agree? When our pre-famine population exploded to nine million due to the potato and small plot sub-division, these walls were necessary. Intact farm-ownership was not yet established, so plots were scattered here and there haphazardly and needed to be defined and declinated. There is no such need nowadays with electricfencing rules.

So, a number of great advantages would accrue in one fellswoop with this idea - 1) The cost to the state and the private sector would be cut by 50 per cent, 2) The work would be greatly speeded up with readymade fill available, 3) Farmers and landowners would have their lands cleared, freed, opened up and visually enhanced for free, 4) The visual integrity and beauty of the original, natural, pristine landscape would be restored and enriched. The stigma of poorland, stoney, barren poverty would be removed, 5) An artificial, ugly blight on the landscape would be ended, 6) Tourism, and national pride would be boosted all in one move.

So, let Government investors, owners, farmers, I.F.A, Tourism Ireland etc consider well and avail of a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, with a six-fold all-round benefit, economically, practically, visually, and aesthetically. Count me in. Let it become Government policy and law anyway as a landscape restoration scheme for the west.

All I can say is that I hope this person is having a humorous dig at various sectors of objectors rather than being serious.

Cash is king

Sweet jesus that person is of there game.

the keen edge

That article doesn't really merit any comment.

Has this been published in the Galway Advertiser as a objective opinion?
It's clearly someone taking the piss.

antoobrien

the keen edge wrote: »

That article doesn't really merit any comment.

Has this been published in the Galway Advertiser as a objective opinion?
It's clearly someone taking the piss.

It's a letter to the editor, on page 100 if you want to take a look at the digital edition. They've had a few weird ones in the past few years (like the one that claims O.G were standing up to the illuminati).

Nath

How could the SawDoctors ever sing about the "stone walls and the grass is green" in the song N17 again????

Sponge Bob

Nath wrote: »

How could the SawDoctors ever sing about the "stone walls and the grass is green" in the song N17 again????

They wouldn;t go near them ones but the fields of Athenry would inevitably be bigger were this suggestion actually adopted.

Mind you the Ag College in Athenry got rid of the stone walls years ago and it looks quite nice TBH

JupiterKid

I wonder will the Sawdoctors be doing an updated song called the "M17?":pac:

stampydmonkey

JupiterKid wrote: »

I wonder will the Sawdoctors be doing an updated song called the "M17?":pac:

"...with timber post and rail fencing"

..kinda rhymes

Iwannahurl

Nath wrote: »

How could the SawDoctors ever sing about the "stone walls and the grass is green" in the song N17 again????

Well the oul-fella left me to Shannon
Was the last time I travelled that road
And as we turned left at Claregalway
I could feel a lump in my throat
As I picture the thousands of times
That I travelled that well-worn track
I know that things will be different
If I ever decide to go back.

JupiterKid

JupiterKid wrote: »

I wonder will the Sawdoctors be doing an updated song called the "M17?":pac:

It would be a bit of a boring song - leave the square in Tuam - turn left onto the motorway, keep going.

lotusm

seems like there be no money for any new road projects according to leohttp://www.independent.ie/irish-news/leo-varadkar-says-no-new-roads-but-existing-network-will-get-emergency-repairs-29117874.html

antoobrien

lotusm wrote: »

seems like there be no money for any new road projects according to leohttp://www.independent.ie/irish-news/leo-varadkar-says-no-new-roads-but-existing-network-will-get-emergency-repairs-29117874.html

Try reading the first line of the article

NO new local or regional roads will be built or upgraded over the coming years

Nothing to do with this road, but will affect other schemes.