Compensation for victims of IRA voilence

wes

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Surely you are not naive enough to compare a corrupt third world country to a first world world European country.

You people really astound me.

You really do.

When, that first world country invades a country looking for imaginary WMD's, they kind of lose a lot of credibility. Also, when that first world country sells weapons to murderous regimes the world over, they also lose a lot of credibility.

Just, because a country is first world, doesn't mean they can't go on (or fund) murderous rampages.

Also, Europe has a incredibly rich history of violence, all carried out by first world "enlightened" countries.

dlofnep

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Surely you are not naive enough to compare a corrupt third world country to a first world world European country.

It doesn't matter what "world" it was - Corruption is corruption. Death is death. Just because an official Government source states something, does not mean it is gospel.

You see - I as a rational minded person think that a priest who is aiding a dying man could not be a justifiable target to kill - but yet, the British security forces did kill him, and did get away with it scot-free.

Now here is where rationality comes into play - we question why an innocent man, who was a priest, who was trying to aid a dying man suddenly became a justified target.

You don't given that you already stated you accept the British findings. That's the difference.

gurramok

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I'm being consistent, being fair to both sides, when the forces of law and order try and convict,then compensation should be paid.

News for you. Out of the hundreds of unarmed people slaughtered by the BA/RUC over the years, you'd be extremely lucky lotto odds style to find one or two prosecutions.

And why?

Because the 'forces of law and order' can do no wrong.

They didn't give a sh1t about the people that died or their families hence its taken 37 years for one notorious incident in 1972 to be investigated properly.

Your posts sound like a view of the above paragraph. Do you care at all?

DoireNod

wes wrote: »

When, that first world country invades a country looking for imaginary WMD's, they kind of lose a lot of credibility...

Nah, shows like X-Factor, Big Brother and Britain's Got Talent makes them lose credibility. :pac:

gurramok wrote: »

And why?

Because the 'forces of law and order' can do no wrong.

Yup.

This video clip might be apt for the occasion. A dude posted it in a thread about the concept of the state being inherently terrorist. I favourited it on youtube!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VucczIg98Gw

Grammar Nazism, but seriously, can we not have the thread title corrected Mods?

gurramok

Its like when the case of the man who died at the recent London 'climate' protests.

First the Police account was that the victim died of 'natural causes' including that he was involved in dodgy protest activity and they held onto that view stringently for a couple of days.

Then by the power of a video mobile phone, it showed the innocent stall seller on his way home from work being violently pushed onto the pavement which contributed to his fatal heart attack.

Point being, never always beleive what you are told of by the establishment. Magnify the London incident by a 1000 times and you have what happened in NI.

Fratton Fred

Its a shame the usual suspects don't get as emotional about English kids killed by terrorists. Maybe my earlier was nearer the truth than I originally thought.

dlofnep

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Its a shame the usual suspects don't get as emotional about English kids killed by terrorists. Maybe my earlier was nearer the truth than I originally thought.

Usual suspects? You mean, the usual suspects who are unwilling to accept the British role in the troubles? It works two ways.

The difference is, most IRA volunteers were actually imprisoned for their actions. The same cannot be said for British soldiers.

walrusgumble

captainblack wrote: »

This is great news and I wish all those involved every success. I hope (and indeed suspect) that this is only the beginning. I'd like to see suspected IRA leaders (many of whom have amassed significant wealth) brought before civil courts and stripped of their assets. I'd also like to see SF attacked, as they acted as cheer leaders for The IRA and apparently have substantial assets. Finally, I'd like to see Irish America brought before the courts and forced to pay compensation to The IRA's victims, after all it's pretty obvious they knew where their donations went. Some of these Americans will have very deep pockets indeed.

All of this will firmly establish where the greatest responsibility for 'the troubles' lies and help to nail Irish Republicanism for today and more importantly for the future.

Never Again.

wishful thinking on both counts

i could not imagine the likes of the clinton's (and many other being to keen on asking their irish americans who have campaigned and backed them for many years to now and fork out. would that then lead the friends of israel doing the same? double standards? dublin and monaghan victims can barely get justice never mind compo. it took bloody sunday victims years before getting something of a decent vechile to get their voices heard. will britain and france reduce former african colonies debts for the way they carried on many moons ago?

last time i saw the republicans are not doing bad, for whatever reason, on the seats count in the north. would you care to divulge in the many republicans who have amazed in a lot of wealth? what about their loyalist counterparts who have just as much blood on their hands?

Kalashnikov_Kid

gurramok wrote: »

Its like when the case of the man who died at the recent London 'climate' protests.

First the Police account was that the victim died of 'natural causes' including that he was involved in dodgy protest activity and they held onto that view stringently for a couple of days.

Then by the power of a video mobile phone, it showed the innocent stall seller on his way home from work being violently pushed onto the pavement which contributed to his fatal heart attack.

Point being, never always beleive what you are told of by the establishment. Magnify the London incident by a 1000 times and you have what happened in NI.

Add Jean Charles de Menezez to that list.

It's a pity that some people here seem to believe whatever Rupert Murdoch/Nutley Lane tells them without question.

Fratton Fred

There is no enquiry into IRA bombings, no regret just the usual "we do not condone, nor do we condemn" statement from some guy who looks like a woodwork teacher.

Personally I think it is time the victims are recognised as being murdered innocents rather than collaterol damage.

gurramok

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Its a shame the usual suspects don't get as emotional about English kids killed by terrorists. Maybe my earlier was nearer the truth than I originally thought.

Who me?

I care for all victims, English, Irish, Muslim, Hindu etc.

I've stated before on the History forum in a discussion with you that i have English relatives from mixed marriages of Irish and English parents including a CoE minister who is my cousin!

I care alot about what happens in England as well as Ireland for obvious reasons. There is total compassion from me for any death of an English kid from violent actions. I just wish some people would show the same compassion in the death of an Irish child at the hands of their own armed forces, is that too much to ask?

Fratton Fred

Kalashnikov_Kid wrote: »

Add Jean Charles de Menezez to that list.

It's a pity that some people here seem to believe whatever Rupert Murdoch/Nutley Lane tells them without question.

Ooh, let's just grab random names and chuck them into the mix shall we??

Any old excuse for a bit of Brit bashing eh?

If you were in London around that time you would think very differently.

DoireNod

Fratton Fred wrote: »

There is no enquiry into IRA bombings, no regret just the usual "we do not condone, nor do we condemn" statement from some guy who looks like a woodwork teacher.

Something wrong with being a woodwork teacher? :pac:

It would be nice if justice was truly served in all walks of life. As I've continuously stated throughout the thread, for it to work and be acceptable, justice must be served across the board. You can't have one innocent victim better than another. Boys like Jeffrey Donaldson and Gregory Campbell are typical examples of the double-standards which makes them so detestable within the Catholic Nationalist community. They want justice and compensation for 'their' people.

DoireNod

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Ooh, let's just grab random names and chuck them into the mix shall we??

Is that what innocent victims are now? Statistics and random names?

Any old excuse for a bit of Brit bashing eh?

There are enough excuses for 'Brit bashing'. The government that is.

If you were in London around that time you would think very differently.

Possibly, but an innocent was murdered nonetheless. Does that excuse it?

Fratton Fred

It gives a reason. I for one am ****ing glad I was not one of the police following him.

DoireNod

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It gives a reason. I for one am ****ing glad I was not one of the police following him.

A reason. A legitimate one? Or not?

dlofnep

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Personally I think it is time the victims are recognised as being murdered innocents rather than collaterol damage.

Does that include the civilians killed in Derry & Ballymurphy by British security forces?

Fratton Fred

gurramok wrote: »

Who me?

I care for all victims, English, Irish, Muslim, Hindu etc.

I've stated before on the History forum in a discussion with you that i have English relatives from mixed marriages of Irish and English parents including a CoE minister who is my cousin!

I care alot about what happens in England as well as Ireland for obvious reasons. There is total compassion from me for any death of an English kid from violent actions. I just wish some people would show the same compassion in the death of an Irish child at the hands of their own armed forces, is that too much to ask?

This thread happens to mention that the IRA mirdered innocent people, this therefore means endless rants about Ballymurphy, G20 protests and even an unfortunate Brazillian shot on the London Underground.

Forgive me for writing off most of the responses as Brit bashing.

DoireNod

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Forgive me for writing off most of the responses as Brit bashing.

You shouldn't write them off. You should take heed and consider them. Most of the Irish population's gripes with Britain and its governments have valid grounds.

dlofnep

Fratton Fred wrote: »

This thread happens to mention that the IRA mirdered innocent people, this therefore means endless rants about Ballymurphy

But it's in the correct context. Britain wants compensation for IRA violence, but it itself is responsible for the same actions as thus, we've shown the the hypocrisy of Britain making such a request.

Kalashnikov_Kid

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Ooh, let's just grab random names and chuck them into the mix shall we??

Any old excuse for a bit of Brit bashing eh?

If you were in London around that time you would think very differently.

Nope I was using de Menezez as a very unfortunate example of not believing the first thing that comes out of the BBC/Sky newsroom as being fact.

But no, you sir have taken out the aul' Brit-bashing card. Insecure much these days?

I happened to have the pleasure of flying out to London the day after 7/7. I know plenty about it.

So I'm a Brit-basher then? Well WTF am I doing relocating to Surrey?! Better get out while I can :rolleyes:

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

Fratton Fred

dlofnep wrote: »

But it's in the correct context. Britain wants compensation for IRA violence, but it itself is responsible for the same actions as thus, we've shown the the hypocrisy of Britain making such a request.

So because in your opinion it is hypocritical(which was not the OP's question I believe) it is wrong?

walrusgumble

Fratton Fred wrote: »

This thread happens to mention that the IRA mirdered innocent people, this therefore means endless rants about Ballymurphy, G20 protests and even an unfortunate Brazillian shot on the London Underground.

Forgive me for writing off most of the responses as Brit bashing.

sorry if you get that impression, but many others in this part of the world seem very content on bashing republicans (often assuming without proof that they are ira men/women) yet some how can't be balanced and look at the whole scenerio, by being seen to decree that some how it was the ira and only the ira that got its hands dirty. in fairness our own 26 county are no angels - eg dublin/monaghan, omagh - lack of action etc

some people here find it cheap how certain countries and not just britain by any shape or form, (the big boys) come out and seek/support and pontify other countries while at the same time gloss over their own actions. i would imagine many in ireland baulked at the notion of gerry adams making comments today for compo for victims of loyalist and state attacks. (of course that was predictable that he would do this) will our state support

i support compo claims for ALL victims of the troubles. i am sure you would agree thou, that that does not mean that the actors should now get smug, wash their hands and flick it under the carpet. justice needs to be seen to be done, by all. in fairness to labour under blair, great great efforts were made to improve relations between the two jurisdictions on this island and with britain.

many here are simply p*ssed off about the double standards by some in power considering their colourful history. why is libya singled out? will anyone dare to have a word with china over their support for some african countries like sudan and zimbabwe.

FlutterinBantam

Kalashnikov_Kid wrote: »

Nope I was using de Menezez as a very unfortunate example of not believing the first thing that comes out of the BBC/Sky newsroom as being fact.

But no, you sir have taken out the aul' Brit-bashing card. Insecure much these days?

I happened to have the pleasure of flying out to London the day after 7/7. I know plenty about it.

So I'm a Brit-basher then? Well WTF am I doing relocating to Surrey?! Better get out while I can :rolleyes:

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

Wtf has living in Surrey to do with whether you are a Brit basher or not.

I'm not saying that you are by the way.

jank

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Forgive me for writing off most of the responses as Brit bashing.

You are not going to be convincing anyone while hiding behind a comment like that. Why not address the points made.

If compensation is paid to IRA victims then surely the same can be said of victims of Loyalist and the British Army. It is not rocket science ffs.

Fratton Fred

Kalashnikov_Kid wrote: »

Nope I was using de Menezez as a very unfortunate example of not believing the first thing that comes out of the BBC/Sky newsroom as being fact.

But no, you sir have taken out the aul' Brit-bashing card. Insecure much these days?

I happened to have the pleasure of flying out to London the day after 7/7. I know plenty about it.

So I'm a Brit-basher then? Well WTF am I doing relocating to Surrey?! Better get out while I can :rolleyes:

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

JCD killing has nothing to do with this, it was a tragedy and no, flying into London the following day is not the same as being in London at the time, travelling daily on the tube and having friends and family doing the same.

Out of interest, where did you come up with the non aggressive user name.

Fratton Fred

jank wrote: »

You are not going to be convincing anyone while hiding behind a comment like that. Why not address the points made.

If compensation is paid to IRA victims then surely the same can be said of victims of Loyalist and the British Army. It is not rocket science ffs.

Where did I say it can't?

jank

Can't what?

Fratton Fred

What?

Kalashnikov_Kid

Fratton Fred wrote: »

JCD killing has nothing to do with this, it was a tragedy and no, flying into London the following day is not the same as being in London at the time, travelling daily on the tube and having friends and family doing the same.

Out of interest, where did you come up with the non aggressive user name.

It's a film reference from 4 years ago. The flags are a much more recent addition, before you ask. Mainly as a result of me continuously getting dragged into arguments like this here. I'm sorry if those nationalist (not terrorist, in my eyes anyway) flags offend you in any way either. :rolleyes:

While we're at the topic of personal slurs, try not to fall off your barstool next time you decide to engage in an IRA-related topic. You will just demean yourself like you are here. If you're an average representation of Portsmouth, I don't think I'll visit anytime soon. Don't want to scare the locals into thinking I'm a terrorist or a pub-bomber whenever I give my opinion. That Irish accent can be awfully terrorising for some too.

You're not a member of the infamous Portsmouth FC 6:57 Crew by any chance? That would explain a lot. Not nice having these demeaning assumptions thrown about is it?

I bid you adieu sir, you have now been entered into my ever-expanding hall of fame...