Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Compensation for victims of IRA voilence

Options
1235

Comments

  • Options
    #122
    Kalashnikov_Kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 642 ✭✭✭Kalashnikov_Kid


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    Wtf has living in Surrey to do with whether you are a Brit basher or not.

    I'm not saying that you are by the way.

    Because if Brit-bashing is my main agenda, WTF am I doing living in middle England trying to make an honest living?


  • Options
    #123
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    Kalashnikov_Kid wrote: »
    Because if Brit-bashing is my main agenda, WTF am I doing living in middle England trying to make an honest living?


    Absolutely no idea pilgrim, where you live has nothing to do with whether you are a Brit basher or not.

    Absolutely nothing.


  • Options
    #124
    Kalashnikov_Kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 642 ✭✭✭Kalashnikov_Kid


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    Absolutely no idea pilgrim, where you live has nothing to do with whether you are a Brit basher or not.

    Absolutely nothing.

    Oh the wit. Please stop. You're a charmer. You're doing a very bad job in concealing the massive erection you're getting from winding up people here.


  • Options
    #125
    uprising
    Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭uprising


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    I believe that there are two sides to every story.
    Yet somehow you seem to be totally one sided
    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    No son, read it again, forces of law and order.
    Police, judiciary, politicians etc.
    Also forces of murder, politicians... forces of mass murder in some cases
    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    Boys, sorry, but I don't seem to be the one manipulated into believing things;)
    You seem very manipulated into believing things of your choosing.
    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    Surely you are not naive enough to compare a corrupt third world country to a first world world European country.

    You people really astound me.

    You really do.
    You astound me, first world, second world, third world all have corrupt regimes, all have mass murderers, except third world countries usually get their weapons from first world countries such as the U.S., Britain, who love nothing more than to sell some goods to one side so the other side also come running to them to even up fire power, great for business.
    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    You are deliberately skewing my replies, "Forces of law and order"

    No point in debating this any further with you guys-sorry.
    You haven't really debated anything of significance, a lot of one sided statements, ignoring facts put before you.
    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    There is no enquiry into IRA bombings, no regret just the usual "we do not condone, nor do we condemn" statement from some guy who looks like a woodwork teacher.

    Personally I think it is time the victims are recognised as being murdered innocents rather than collaterol damage.
    Yea thats kinda what this thread is about (not woodwork teachers), innocent victims, and in my first post I stated ALL innocent victims around the globe should be compensated by the suppliers of weapons used to maim and kill, which if it were actually to happen would leave the U.K. and U.S.A. as third world countries as they would have to sell all their assets just to to make a token gesture of compensation as their victims combined run well into many millions, an awful lot more than Libya is guilty of.


  • Options
    #126
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Where did I say it can't?

    ??


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #127
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Jank,

    You said....
    jank wrote: »
    If compensation is paid to IRA victims then surely the same can be said of victims of Loyalist and the British Army. It is not rocket science ffs.


    So I replied
    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Where did I say it can't?

    The same can be said of Loyalist victims. there are numerous enquiries into past events and I don't think anyone dismisses the great work Nuala O'Loan and now Al hutchison have done for the NI Police Ombudsman. As Walrusgrumble says, the current labour government is trying to put things right, but it's not an easy task.

    My point is, all this is going on and yet no one is speaking up for the victims of IRA violence and in this case, several attrocitites were carried out fully backed by an existing regime that now wants to enter into diplomatic relations with the UK. it is only right and proper that the British government says to that regime, "Hey, you supported a terrorist organisation that killed lots of people in our country, what are you going to do about it". is it not?


  • Options
    #128
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    uprising wrote: »
    Yea thats kinda what this thread is about (not woodwork teachers), innocent victims, and in my first post I stated ALL innocent victims around the globe should be compensated by the suppliers of weapons used to maim and kill, which if it were actually to happen would leave the U.K. and U.S.A. as third world countries as they would have to sell all their assets just to to make a token gesture of compensation as their victims combined run well into many millions, an awful lot more than Libya is guilty of.

    i don't agree with that, it is too broad a statement. If you sell arms to a legitimate democratically elected government, then I don't see any problems. to me that is the analogy quoted earlier, you can't head off to Germany looking for compensation because you were run down by a Mercedes.

    The difference in this case is that Libya did not sell to a government, they sought out and donated arms to an illegal terrorist organisation who intentionally target civilians.


  • Options
    #129
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    The difference in this case is that Libya did not sell to a government, they sought out and donated arms to an illegal terrorist organisation who intentionally target civilians.

    So that's your entire basis for a case? The fact that, although Britain sold weapons to irresponsible forces who were widely known for horrific human rights abuses and murder of civilians - it doesn't count, because they weren't an "illegal terrorist organisation"?

    Great argument there Fred. You're really winning me over. :)


  • Options
    #130
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Kalashnikov_Kid wrote: »
    It's a film reference from 4 years ago. The flags are a much more recent addition, before you ask. Mainly as a result of me continuously getting dragged into arguments like this here. I'm sorry if those nationalist (not terrorist, in my eyes anyway) flags offend you in any way either. :rolleyes:

    While we're at the topic of personal slurs, try not to fall off your barstool next time you decide to engage in an IRA-related topic. You will just demean yourself like you are here. If you're an average representation of Portsmouth, I don't think I'll visit anytime soon. Don't want to scare the locals into thinking I'm a terrorist or a pub-bomber whenever I give my opinion. That Irish accent can be awfully terrorising for some too.

    You're not a member of the infamous Portsmouth FC 6:57 Crew by any chance? That would explain a lot. Not nice having these demeaning assumptions thrown about is it?

    I bid you adieu sir, you have now been entered into my ever-expanding hall of fame...

    Don't patronise me, you aren't very good at it.

    May I suggest you have a serious reality check before you head off to the land of the enemy, if you sit in a pub in Surrey telling everyone the IRA were not terrorists and criticising everything the British do, you may be in for a nasty surprise.


  • Options
    #131
    RedPlanet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭RedPlanet


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    The difference in this case is that Libya did not sell to a government, they sought out and donated arms to an illegal terrorist organisation who intentionally target civilians.
    The problem you have for yourself there, is that the IRA were not an illegal terrorist organisation in Libyan law.

    For example: the US would provide support to Kurdish seperatists (pre-Iraq War II), despite that the PKK would have been an illegal terrorist organisation in Iraq at the time. (Not to mention Turkey as well)


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #132
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    dlofnep wrote: »
    So that's your entire basis for a case? The fact that, although Britain sold weapons to irresponsible forces who were widely known for horrific human rights abuses and murder of civilians - it doesn't count, because they weren't an "illegal terrorist organisation"?

    Great argument there Fred. You're really winning me over. :)
    RedPlanet wrote: »
    The problem you have for yourself there, is that the IRA were not an illegal terrorist organisation in Libyan law.

    For example: the US would provide support to Kurdish seperatists (pre-Iraq War II), despite that the PKK would have been an illegal terrorist organisation in Iraq at the time. (Not to mention Turkey as well)

    So were Libya right or wrong to give arms to the IRA?


  • Options
    #133
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    They were spot on in my opinion.


  • Options
    #134
    RedPlanet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭RedPlanet


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    So were Libya right or wrong to give arms to the IRA?

    They were right. They gave arms to a seperatist organisation (the IRA) as a consequence of Britian providing support (airbases) for USA's attack on them (bombing of Tripoli).


  • Options
    #135
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    FTA69 wrote: »
    They were spot on in my opinion.
    RedPlanet wrote: »
    They were right. They gave arms to a seperatist organisation (the IRA) as a consequence of Britian providing support (airbases) for USA's attack on them (bombing of Tripoli).

    fine. I suppose you should be commended for convictions, even if they are misplaced.


  • Options
    #136
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    From todays RTE news website ...............

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0908/derry.html

    For those who argue that the IRA were a noble force fighting a brave war against the evil British security forces, please remember that the above story^ is what the provisional IRA actually got up to on a weekly basis for thirty years, before they became 'the good guys' :rolleyes:

    Those who hold the IRA in high esteem are either too young to remember the daily drip drip feed of knee cappings, murders, bombings, tar & featherings, expulsions, maimings, explosions & excuses > 'or they support/supported the cause' in which case the IRA terrorists were the good guys, and the forces of law & order (the Police & the Army) were the bad guys!

    Lets hope the Libyans pay up sooner rather than later, there are too many maimed people living in Northern Ireland & Britain (thanks to Libyan semtex) who need a justified recompense from the PIRA & Gaddafi.


  • Options
    #137
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    Camelot wrote: »
    From todays RTE news website ...............

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0908/derry.html

    For those who argue that the IRA were a noble force fighting a brave war against the evil British security forces, please remember that the above story^ is what the provisional IRA actually got up to on a weekly basis for thirty years, before they became 'the good guys' :rolleyes:

    Those who hold the IRA in high esteem are either too young to remember the daily drip drip feed of knee cappings, murders, bombings, tar & featherings, expulsions, maimings, explosions & excuses > 'or they support/supported the cause' in which case the IRA terrorists were the good guys, and the forces of law & order (the Police & the Army) were the bad guys!

    Lets hope the Libyans pay up sooner rather than later, there are too many maimed people living in Northern Ireland & Britain (thanks to Libyan semtex) who need a justified recompense from the PIRA & Gaddafi.


    Indeed , I would have no problem with the perpretators in this event, Libya and the various terrorist organisations, if neccessary seize their big houses and property, but don't saddle the ordinary taxpayer with the bill.


  • Options
    #138
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    Kalashnikov_Kid wrote: »
    . I'm sorry if those nationalist (not terrorist, in my eyes anyway) flags offend you in any way either. :rolleyes:

    Nice to see the auld virtual "curb painting" is alive and well.;)


  • Options
    #139
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »

    Nice to see the auld virtual "curb painting" is alive and well.;)

    what the hell is the first one?


  • Options
    #140
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    what the hell is the first one?

    Looks like a child got out the crayons & re coloured the Union Jack ;)


  • Options
    #141
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Camelot wrote: »
    Looks like a child got out the crayons & re coloured the Union Jack ;)

    that's what i was thinking, maybe my question should be "Why" the first one :D


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #142
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    I have to admit though, their soup is very nice :)

    http://recipes.suite101.com/article.cfm/basque_soup


  • Options
    #143
    walrusgumble
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,062 ✭✭✭walrusgumble


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    Indeed , I would have no problem with the perpretators in this event, Libya and the various terrorist organisations, if neccessary seize their big houses and property, but don't saddle the ordinary taxpayer with the bill.

    how do you propose to seize their big houses and property? are you referring to libya there as well? do you not see the consequences that would follow?


  • Options
    #144
    Ping Chow Chi
    Registered Users Posts: 3,779 ✭✭✭Ping Chow Chi


    seems a strange thing to me, where do you stop? ... sue the people (mainly americans) who helped fund the IRA?

    If someone somewhere around the world has been killed by a British manufactored arm could the British goverment be sued?


  • Options
    #145
    Exon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭Exon


    Where's the compensation for victims of the English Crown? We all diserve to be reimbursed for lands stolen from our ancestors.


  • Options
    #146
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Ping Chow Chi wrote: »
    seems a strange thing to me, where do you stop? ... sue the people (mainly americans) who helped fund the IRA?
    I would, yes, but that's never going to happen.
    Ping Chow Chi wrote: »
    If someone somewhere around the world has been killed by a British manufactored arm could the British goverment be sued?

    it's got nothing to do with where the arms were made, if that were the case, Britain would be going after the Czech republic for making Semtex. The issue the British have is that Colonel Gaddafi gave arms to the IRA knowing full well they would be used to target civilians.


  • Options
    #147
    DoireNod
    Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    what the hell is the first one?
    The Basque Country flag.
    Ping Chow Chi wrote: »
    seems a strange thing to me, where do you stop? ... sue the people (mainly americans) who helped fund the IRA?

    If someone somewhere around the world has been killed by a British manufactored arm could the British goverment be sued?
    Exon wrote: »
    Where's the compensation for victims of the English Crown? We all diserve to be reimbursed for lands stolen from our ancestors.

    Exactly right. The point that has been reiterated throughout this thread is why is one innocent victim more deserving than another innocent victim? There is a gross display of hypocrisy evident, especially from the British government who is trying to take a moral high-ground built on sand.


  • Options
    #148
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    DoireNod wrote: »
    Exactly right. The point that has been reiterated throughout this thread is why is one innocent victim more deserving than another innocent victim? There is a gross display of hypocrisy evident, especially from the British government who is trying to take a moral high-ground built on sand.

    and the point I have been reiterating throughout this thread, is that they are not. Compensation has been paid, enquiries are taking place, ombudsmen are looking over old incidents. the wheels are in motion, so it is only fair that the wheels start turning for the IRA victims as well as the victims of Britian and Loyalists. (Why is this so hard to comprehend?)

    btw, No one is going to get compensation for land lost by their ancestors 400 years ago, that really is a can of worms.


  • Options
    #149
    DoireNod
    Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    and the point I have been reiterating throughout this thread, is that they are not. Compensation has been paid, enquiries are taking place, ombudsmen are looking over old incidents. the wheels are in motion, so it is only fair that the wheels start turning for the IRA victims as well as the victims of Britian and Loyalists. (Why is this so hard to comprehend?)
    Compensation has not been paid and justice has not been done. I am also not suggesting that innocent victims of IRA violence are not entitled to see justice or compensation. What I am saying however, is that it is hypocritical for the British government to condemn others for supporting the IRA, when they themselves colluded with terrorist organisations and supplied arms to countries in the full knowledge that they would be used as coercion or waging of war.
    btw, No one is going to get compensation for land lost by their ancestors 400 years ago, that really is a can of worms.
    Compensation is one thing. Justice is another. We probably won't see justice done either.


  • Options
    #150
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Camelot wrote: »
    Lets hope the Libyans pay up sooner rather than later, there are too many maimed people living in Northern Ireland & Britain (thanks to Libyan semtex) who need a justified recompense from the PIRA & Gaddafi.

    Why should they pay up - Has Britain paid up for it's attack on civilians in Ireland, or for providing crackpot regimes with weapons used to maim civilians?

    No, they have not. Your failure to see the hypocrisy in Britain's request is quite telling.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #151
    Kalashnikov_Kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 642 ✭✭✭Kalashnikov_Kid


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Don't patronise me, you aren't very good at it.

    May I suggest you have a serious reality check before you head off to the land of the enemy, if you sit in a pub in Surrey telling everyone the IRA were not terrorists and criticising everything the British do, you may be in for a nasty surprise.

    Well you were the first to patronise me. I've survived 3 months in the pubs of Surrey discussing similar arguments as above - some people happen to be a little more open minded than you.
    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    what the hell is the first one?
    Camelot wrote: »
    Looks like a child got out the crayons & re coloured the Union Jack ;)

    Shows the level of intellect I'm up against. Amazing. You have me speechless. Well done guys. There's always a chance to pick up another A level or two...


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement