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Tom O' Higgins quitting Houses of the Oireachtas Commission's audit committee

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  • 07-09-2009 12:57pm
    #1
    workaccount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,460 ✭✭✭


    Hi,
    Just after reading this - http://www.independent.ie/national-news/i-quit-says-political-expenses-watchdog-1879849.html

    Funny how he decides to quit just when the whole thing is about to explode.

    What's his reason? "He was reportedly left "seething" by the refusal of politicians to heed his concerns -- particularly over the expenses and allowances they pay themselves."

    How long has he been on the board? - since before 2004 I know at least.

    What was one of his jobs? A TOP accountant charged with overseeing political expenses.

    Interested in hearing other peoples opinion on this one.

    Basically from what I gather he hasn't been doing his job and has quit now trying to deflect the blame to other people.


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    #2
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    workaccount wrote: »
    ... Basically from what I gather he hasn't been doing his job and has quit now trying to deflect the blame to other people.

    Can you justify that comment?


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    #3
    workaccount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,460 ✭✭✭workaccount


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    Can you justify that comment?

    I already did.


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    #4
    Nehaxak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭Nehaxak


    There's already another thread on this here started by Biggins http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055674406

    ...but I'd just like to say that having known and worked alongside Tom O'Higgins in the past myself, I know him as a man of utmost professionalism, integrity and honesty and fantastic work ethic.

    He is not someone who would walk away from any job or task put to him lightly at all so you can bet he had very good reasons to do so now.


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    #5
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    I refer the right honerable gentleman to this thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055674406


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    #6
    workaccount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,460 ✭✭✭workaccount


    Biggins wrote: »
    I refer the right honerable gentleman to this thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055674406


    I know the politicians are disgraceful and that's what your thread is about.

    It was his job to oversee the politicians expenses - these crazy expenses you decided to create a thread about. Now you don't think the man who is supposed to oversee these is to blame - where's the logic in that?


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    #7
    Nehaxak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭Nehaxak


    Well it seem to be par for the course these days that the government blame everybody else but themselves.
    "No, it wasn't my fault, it was the bad advice I was getting from my advisors" - Eh no sorry, it *IS* and *WAS* your fault because you are ultimately responsible, not your advisors. You employed those advisors so you are responsible for them. If they insist on blaming everyone else for their own failings and faults then wtf do we even have them in there for, may as well get rid of all the politicians and hold an election for advisors.

    If the person put in charge of trying to sort out and deal with the absolutely disgusting abuse and mis-use of the expenses system cannot even be given the room and required power and access to do his job then wtf is the point in him continuing with what is and was nothing but a PR charade, to show "look we're doing something about it, we have more of these advisor type fella's and an oversight committee".

    No, what needs to happen is that those politicians who have abused and mis-used the expenses system need to be held at this stage - politically, morally and criminally accountable for their own actions and that of their offices. It's gone too far now at this stage and tough action needs to be taken.


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    #8
    fastrac
    Registered Users Posts: 718 ✭✭✭fastrac


    The usual knee jerk reaction of halting all payments simular to what social welfare recipients are subjected to even if they are homeless and starving would go down well with the taxpayers.At very least an online summary of expenses would make the taxes,levies,duties,charges etc a bit easier to bear for the majority who have never had the luxury of an open cheque book


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    #9
    L_gaucho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 63 ✭✭L_gaucho


    workaccount wrote: »
    Hi,


    Basically from what I gather he hasn't been doing his job and has quit now trying to deflect the blame to other people.

    Have to admit, this is exactly what I thought when I read this.. (without any evidence, just perception..)


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    #10
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    A man of his extreme internationally high calibre does not walk away from such an important position without some serious reasons.
    He alone knows it can have a detriment effect on his good name and doesn't take such a decision lightly.
    I have to reiterate the same feeling as in the other thread, I think its disgusting that he has been put in this position by those that know far less (and clear qualification-wise) and only hold their elected positions because of those that elected them and know not better of their TDstrue character and money grabbing nature!


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    #11
    techdiver
    Registered Users Posts: 3,206 ✭✭✭techdiver


    I would like to know, why if he was in this position since 2004 and knew about the practises of politicians and expenses, did he not attempt to raise the issue then?


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    #12
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    techdiver wrote: »
    I would like to know, why if he was in this position since 2004 and knew about the practises of politicians and expenses, did he not attempt to raise the issue then?

    How do we know he hasn't been raising the issue? Just because he didn't go roaring to the media, making everything public, don't mean he hasn't been raising the issue repeatedly internally.
    According to his letter of resignation it was just because of his work/advice been ignored, etc (and we can presume part of those duties was just that - raising the issue) that was the problem!
    He was reportedly left "seething" by the refusal of politicians to heed his concerns -- particularly over the expenses and allowances they pay themselves.

    I'm sure this means from the report that he's been going on about this issue for some time - quietly without feeling the need for public affirmation that he was doing just that!


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    #13
    workaccount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,460 ✭✭✭workaccount


    Biggins wrote: »
    How do we know he hasn't been raising the issue? Just because he didn't go roaring to the media, making everything public, don't mean he hasn't been raising the issue repeatedly internally.
    According to his letter of resignation it was just because of his work/advice been ignored, etc (and we can presume part of those duties was just that - raising the issue) that was the problem!

    This is ridiculous. 5 years in his position and you think it's reasonable that all he did was try to raise the issue internally. If he didn't want to go to the media he should have quit then. How many times would you get the chance to raise that in 5 years?

    It's quite obvious to most including you that this spending was sick and should be criminal. Anybody from the outside could have seen that - yet it takes him 5 years! A top accountant!


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    #14
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    workaccount wrote: »
    It's quite obvious to most including you that this spending was sick and should be criminal. Anybody from the outside could have seen that - yet it takes him 5 years! A top accountant!

    Again, he could have been repeatedly bringing this issue up again and again - quietly with the proper decorum, paperwork and submitted regular assessments!
    Who are we to say he didn't for crying out loud!
    We all don't need to read it in the media just to know that he'd been doing his job, every time he brought it up!
    I seriously doubt that he, given his well known integrity and experience, took the final decision he did just because he was ignored just once.
    Come on for crying out loud....! It don't take much brains to see that he'd been possibly harping away about the issue BEHIND closed doors and was basically ignored again and again.


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    #15
    workaccount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,460 ✭✭✭workaccount


    Biggins wrote: »
    Again, he could have been repeatedly bringing this issue up again and again - quietly with the proper decorum, paperwork and submitted regular assessments!
    Who are we to say he didn't for crying out loud!
    We all don't need to read it in the media just to know that he'd been doing his job, every time he brought it up!

    Look were not here in court trying to decide a life sentence. I'm just saying I think there's a case. That's all.


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    #16
    Dannyboy83
    Registered Users Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Dannyboy83


    workaccount wrote: »
    This is ridiculous. 5 years in his position and you think it's reasonable that all he did was try to raise the issue internally. If he didn't want to go to the media he should have quit then. How many times would you get the chance to raise that in 5 years?

    It's quite obvious to most including you that this spending was sick and should be criminal. Anybody from the outside could have seen that - yet it takes him 5 years! A top accountant!

    Even if he had brought it up, 1 time or 50 times, would we hear about it?

    Presumably the reason we're hearing about it now is because of his dramatic exit?


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    #17
    workaccount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,460 ✭✭✭workaccount


    Dannyboy83 wrote: »
    Even if he had brought it up, 1 time or 50 times, would we hear about it?

    Presumably the reason we're hearing about it now is because of his dramatic exit?

    Spending money on limos in London and the Cannes film festival. More than their annual earnings in expenses. I think so.

    All I really want or care about anyway is a transparent system in the future. It would be nice for those who didn't do their job to be brought to justice - in all areas. It's not for me to decide though who is or who is not guilty. Some people seem to be saying "not guilty" outright. I just gathered an opinion based on what I got from the article. I think it sounds fishy and would like more information on the whole thing.


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    #18
    workaccount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,460 ✭✭✭workaccount


    Biggins wrote: »
    I seriously doubt that he, given his well known integrity and experience, took the final decision he did just because he was ignored just once.
    Come on for crying out loud....! It don't take much brains to see that he'd been possibly harping away about the issue BEHIND closed doors and was basically ignored again and again.

    Your missing my point. Why did it take him 5 years to decide to stop raising the issue?


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    #19
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    workaccount wrote: »
    Your missing my point. Why did it take him 5 years to decide to stop raising the issue?

    The phrase "Flogging a dead horse" comes to mind - the other side of that coin is: well fair play to him if he has been pushing for cuts for five years!
    Would we have done the same for so long in the face of the useless, pig-ignorant sods now resident in the Dail???

    At least he was trying but still there is always one more out there to knock him for all or any of his attempts!
    Thats the Irish way for some it seems still. Pure disgusting!

    Every TD involved who is not willing to do what the rest of the country is being forced to do, should hang their heads in shame.


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    #20
    workaccount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,460 ✭✭✭workaccount


    Biggins wrote: »
    The phrase "Flogging a dead horse" comes to mind - the other side of that coin is: well fair play to him if he has been pushing for cuts for five years!
    Would we have done the same for so long in the face of the useless, pig-ignorant sods now resident in the Dail???

    At least he was trying but still there is always one more out there to knock him for all or any of his attempts!
    Thats the Irish way for some it seems still. Pure disgusting!

    Every TD involved is not willing to do what the rest of the country is being forced to do, should hang their heads in shame.

    I've already gave my opinion on the politicians. If Tom wasn't able to do the job and fulfill his duties he should have left a long long time ago.

    5 years of politicians drawing - for the sake of argument an average of 150k. That's alot of money when you add up all the politicians. Who was aware of it? Tom was and it was his job to oversee it.

    I don't understand your argument. It's not really clear - can you clarify it? By your accounts (it seems to me) it's alright if you do a few jobs right and at least give some of your other responsibilities a try. In my opinion it's results that count only - intentions and attempts are worthless in and of themselves.


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    #21
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    workaccount wrote: »
    I've already gave my opinion on the politicians. If Tom wasn't able to do the job and fulfill his duties he should have left a long long time ago.

    5 years of politicians drawing - for the sake of argument an average of 150k. That's alot of money when you add up all the politicians. Who was aware of it? Tom was and it was his job to oversee it.

    I don't understand your argument. It's not really clear - can you clarify it? By your accounts it's alright if you do a few jobs right and at least give some of your other responsibilities a try. In my opinion it's results that count only.

    You don't understand? Good god! The rest clearly do!
    The man stuck it out along with his staff in the face of adversity for five years. Fair play to him and his department staff.
    It might be more useful if you directed the remainder of your disgust to those that truly deserve it more instead.
    In my opinion it's results that count only - intentions and attempts are worthless in and of themselves.
    Well pardon the rest of us for trying to get things done, trying to invent something, trying to achieve something and fail a few times before we finally succeed! Jeasus!

    Tom was part of a department that was trying to implement much needed cuts.
    He and his fellow staff were sidelined, ignored, and put off repeatedly.
    If your truly advocating that he is the "villain" of the whole fracas, there's no point in further discussion. I'm only adding to a situation of possible continuous trolling.


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    #22
    workaccount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,460 ✭✭✭workaccount


    Biggins wrote: »
    You don't understand? Good god! The rest clearly do!
    The man stuck it out along with his staff in the face of adversity for five years. Fair play to him and his department staff.
    If might be more useful if you directed the remainder of your disgust to those that truly deserve it more instead.

    Tom was part of a department that was trying to implement much needed cut.
    He and his fellow staff were sidelined, ignored, and put off repeatedly.
    If your truly advocating that he is the "villain" of the whole fracas, there's no point in further discussion. I'm only adding to a situation of possible trolling.

    Please don't try to make this into something personal. I know your getting annoyed now. The problem seems to be that we have a difference of opinion. You think that it's reasonable that it should take 5 years of failures to correct something in the system that to me does not seem to be that complex.

    To me it seems that it's a fairly simple problem. May I suggest a solution? An independent board for overseeing the payments. The problem was/is with the government ultimately as they were Tom's boss! Still though Tom was there for the 5 years with no result getting paid by the taxpayer with duties of responsibility.


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    #23
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    workaccount wrote: »
    ...To me it seems that it's a fairly simple problem. May I suggest a solution? An independent board for overseeing the payments. The problem was/is with the government ultimately as they were Tom's boss! Still though Tom was there for the 5 years with no result getting paid by the taxpayer with duties of responsibility.

    The department including him was set-up to make cuts amid other projects.
    For 5 years they, we can assume, have done their (other) jobs reliability successfully otherwise they wouldn't still be employed.
    Amid those suggestions given, was the need to address the far too much unaccountable expences allowed by TD to have at the drop of a hat.
    The man clearly by his own words is pissed off, that for part of the job he (and his staff) was asked to do - when he did it - he (and they we can assume) were sidelined and/or just blanked because TDs didn't like what they heard or read in submitted reports!

    If the thick headed skulls called TDs continue to do the expenses/cash grabbing that they are clearly doing, of course the man is going to fail!
    The rest of us learning of their behaviour, are just amazed that he and his staff have actually managed to stick it out given the hassle he/they have been through over the years.
    And to be honest, if he failed in his job AT ANY STAGE - why the feck did they still employ him and/or his staff still?

    Given his international good sterling, well known work reputation, I (and many, many others it seems) greatly suspect he is NOT the villain of the episode, but just another victim of those in the Dail and their pure disgusting antics and greedy behaviour.
    I hold the mans reputation to get any job done or at least tried, far ahead of any or all of the TDs reputations currently residing in the Dail.

    Many people take his words more so to be closer to the truth than the lying, two faced, greed fecks in the Dail right now!


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    #24
    workaccount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,460 ✭✭✭workaccount


    Biggins wrote: »
    The department including him was set-up to make cuts amid other projects.
    For 5 years they, we can assume, have done their (other) jobs reliability successfully otherwise they wouldn't still be employed.

    I have nothing to go on to have suspicion that there were problems in any other area of his job.
    Biggins wrote: »
    Amid those suggestions given, was the need to address the far too much unaccountable expences allowed by TD to have at the drop of a hat.
    The man clearly by his own words is pissed off, that for part of the job he (and his staff) was asked to do - when he did it - he (and they we can assume) were sidelined and/or just blanked because TDs didn't like what they heard or read in submitted reports!

    So resign then or inform the public. Courage and principle are great qualities - I don't see them here. It should have been obvious to this "smart" accountant that he wasn't going to get changes the way he was going. It's seems to me he was happy to stay in the position he was with a nice paycheck I'm sure. It should be an independent board/commision that does this job.

    Biggins wrote: »
    If the thick headed skulls called TDs continue to do the expenses/cash grabbing that they are clearly doing, of course the man is going to fail!
    The rest of us learning of their behaviour, are just amazed that he and his staff have actually managed to stick it out given the hassle he/they have been through over the years.
    And to be honest, if he failed in his job AT ANY STAGE - why the feck did they still employ him and/or his staff still?

    I'm amazed that he didn't get it out in the open or resign if he's so great or special.

    Biggins wrote: »
    Given his international good sterling, well known work reputation, I (and many, many others it seems) greatly suspect he is NOT the villain of the episode, but just another victim of those in the Dail and their pure disgusting antics and greedy behaviour.
    I hold the mans reputation to get any job done or at least tried, far ahead of any or all of the TDs reputations currently residing in the Dail.

    Many people take his words more so to be closer to the truth than the lying, two faced, greed fecks in the Dail right now!

    Reputations falter - I wouldn't go on that alone.


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    #25
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Clearly you think then he's completely in the wrong! However a great deal more think different from your good self.
    End of discussion. Me continuing would just be trolling.


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    #26
    workaccount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,460 ✭✭✭workaccount


    Biggins wrote: »
    Clearly you think then he's completely in the wrong! However a great deal more think different from your good self.
    End of discussion. Me continuing would just be trolling.

    I think it could have been blown open a long time ago.


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    #27
    Hootanany
    Registered Users Posts: 5,477 ✭✭✭Hootanany


    Viva the Revolution


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    #28
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    article about o donoaghue nad tom o'higgins
    info on who he is

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article6832208.ece
    O’Higgins is Blueshirt gentry. He quit in despair at the obduracy which greeted his advice to cap TDs’ expenses and make receipts for all claims a prerequisite. O’Higgins is the nephew of Kevin O’Higgins, the assassinated minister for justice. His father was Tom O’Higgins, the presidential candidate. He is a member of the Irish Human Rights Commission, former chairman of Concern Worldwide, a former president of the Institute of Chartered Accountants, a former chairman of the Coombe hospital, and an auditor to the Courts Service, the attorneygeneral’s office and various other hallowed institutions of the state.

    The call to public service is in O’Higgins’ DNA. Reports that he was unable to secure meetings with O’Donoghue, chairman of the Oireachtas Commission, have incensed even the most philosophical Fine Gaelers.


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    #29
    bigstar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭bigstar


    workaccount wrote: »
    Hi,
    Just after reading this - http://www.independent.ie/national-news/i-quit-says-political-expenses-watchdog-1879849.html

    Funny how he decides to quit just when the whole thing is about to explode.

    What's his reason? "He was reportedly left "seething" by the refusal of politicians to heed his concerns -- particularly over the expenses and allowances they pay themselves."

    How long has he been on the board? - since before 2004 I know at least.

    What was one of his jobs? A TOP accountant charged with overseeing political expenses.

    Interested in hearing other peoples opinion on this one.

    Basically from what I gather he hasn't been doing his job and has quit now trying to deflect the blame to other people.

    i think your wrong here tbh. its not his job to oversee anything, he is not part of an independent body, he works for the government. he makes recommendations to the government, the ministers must implement them, they havent, he quits. as for being there for 5 years and not doing anything, most td's have been there for a lot longer and done a lot less.


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    #30
    workaccount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,460 ✭✭✭workaccount


    bigstar wrote: »
    i think your wrong here tbh. its not his job to oversee anything, he is not part of an independent body, he works for the government. he makes recommendations to the government, the ministers must implement them, they havent, he quits. as for being there for 5 years and not doing anything, most td's have been there for a lot longer and done a lot less.

    He sat in his cushy seat for 5 years on a nice salary and decides to quit before it explodes. He would be still there for another 5 if things hadn't gone they way they have with the economy. Pushes all the blame away from himself then. Taxpayers were paying his salary. If he's so principled that he quits his top civil job because the TD's are not listening to him why didn't he do it a few years ago.

    Whatever the TD's do doesn't excuse him at all.


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    #31
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    workaccount wrote: »
    He sat in his cushy seat for 5 years on a nice salary and decides to quit before it explodes. He would be still there for another 5 if things hadn't gone they way they have with the economy. Pushes all the blame away from himself then. Taxpayers were paying his salary. If he's so principled that he quits his top civil job because the TD's are not listening to him why didn't he do it a few years ago.

    Whatever the TD's do doesn't excuse him at all.

    lol and why should he stick around to take all the blame when he was making the recommendations and was being ignored?

    He stuck around and made his recommendations, why weren't they implemented is the scandal TBH.


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