Rep of Ireland vs South Africa

CHD

Whats with the hard on for Best, Alls he did was prove Morrison should be back. Morrison is the better player and would do alot better.

Kirby

CHD wrote: »

Whats with the hard on for Best, Alls he did was prove Morrison should be back. Morrison is the better player and would do alot better.

Sigh. did you even watch the game? Best looked very good when he came on. Could've scored several times.

CHD

Kirby wrote: »

Sigh. did you even watch the game? Best looked very good when he came on. Could've scored several times.

Sigh. Morrison could do better.

Kirby

Could...being the operative word. Best did play...and did well.

Headshot

CHD wrote: »

Sigh. Morrison could do better.

Mystic meg

CHD

Whens the last time yous watched Morrison play? Alls you see of Best is when he has a green jersey on. A good performance doesn't mean feck all. Morrison performing well consistantly means he should be in the squad. Todays game is perfect to give Morrison a run but instead Best does and we will be stuck with him. Remember Elliot played well against Sweden in Stauntons first game, lets get him back so.

eirebhoy

For the 3rd time in a row we can't even rate our central midfielders because of Trap's tactics. They push up when our defence has the ball, the defence hits it long.

Trap said he was very happy with Gibson tonight. He did his job. For Trap he was probably 8/10. For the viewer he was probably 5/10. That's not Gibson's fault. When S.Reid gets back in I'm certain Trap will change the tactics to play it through midfield more which will of course help the central midfielders.

It's very frustrating listening to the midfielders get the blame time and time again. This is the way Trap has set things out in the last few games. Long ball.

Watch the game in Italy to see that our often critisised central midfield can play when the tactics suit.

Headshot

CHD wrote: »

Whens the last time yous watched Morrison play? Alls you see of Best is when he has a green jersey on. A good performance doesn't mean feck all. Morrison performing well consistantly means he should be in the squad. Todays game is perfect to give Morrison a run but instead Best does and we will be stuck with him. Remember Elliot played well against Sweden in Stauntons first game, lets get him back so.

Iv watched clinton on the opening day of the championship and i think he scored twice, looking at his apperance stats he must be injured atm.

CHD

He won't get near the team though unfortunately when he should.

Xavi6

Kirby wrote: »

Could...being the operative word.

Just like it was when you said Best 'could've scored'

aodea

to be fair there aint much between best and morisson. They both struggle to score goals in a poor team. I would pick clinton if i had to but really neither are near doyle and keane. Morrisson got ten last year and has three this year hardly worthy of a call up. Best got four last year so should not really be near the squad.

The Rooster

Regardless of how he's playing for Coventry, Best did well yesterday. Looked more of a goal threat than Folan, but there wouldnt be much between them.

Felt a bit sorry for Eddie Nolan. Started well but deteriorated. But the chap hasnt even started a league game for Preston this season (one appearance as a sub), so a bit of a mystery how he managed to get picked to start for Ireland.

Good to see St Ledger grow with every game. He's been the find of the campaign.

If one of Kelly or McShane play regulalrly for their clubs between now and Italy (and don't make any balls-ups), then I'd definitely bring one of them into the back 4 for the Italian game and consign Kilbane to the bench.

dogpile

eirebhoy wrote: »

For the 3rd time in a row we can't even rate our central midfielders because of Trap's tactics. .

Trappatoni said Gibson "had a very great great game" ...and all is well :rolleyes:



I'm almost sure now he's not the full shilling..

JP Liz

Ireland won :eek:

Lord Trollington

Tom65 wrote: »

Did no else think Liam Lawerence put in a really excellent performance? I was very impressed, to the point that if he had more experience I'd be thinking of him to start against Italy. Goal aside, his defensive work was good, he carried the ball wall, and his crossing was excellent. A lot of that has been missed when we have McGeady on the wings, who can beat players but rarely produces the end product.

Stephen Kelly, Paul McShane, Sean St. Ledger, Caleb Folan and Leon Best all played well. The game passed our central midfielders by.

You would start Liam Lawerence at the expense of who exactly?
His first Start in a green jersey and you want him to play against Italy, your having a laugh surely??!

Pro. F

eirebhoy wrote: »

For the 3rd time in a row we can't even rate our central midfielders because of Trap's tactics. They push up when our defence has the ball, the defence hits it long.

Trap said he was very happy with Gibson tonight. He did his job. For Trap he was probably 8/10. For the viewer he was probably 5/10. That's not Gibson's fault. When S.Reid gets back in I'm certain Trap will change the tactics to play it through midfield more which will of course help the central midfielders.

It's very frustrating listening to the midfielders get the blame time and time again. This is the way Trap has set things out in the last few games. Long ball.

Watch the game in Italy to see that our often critisised central midfield can play when the tactics suit.

I agree with most of this. Trap's tactics at the moment mean there is no hope of our central midfielders doing anything creative on the ball. And the tactics will surely change when (if) S Reid comes back. Iirc when Reid was fit before, we were much better in possession.

I do think that Andrews and Gibson, and as a result the whole team, would benefit from being allowed to show for the ball, when the defenders have it, and trying to play it through midfield. But i don't think that the Italian game shows anything special from the pair - the italians were sitting so deep that our midfield weren't under any pressure in possession.

dogpile

Pro. F wrote: »

I agree with most of this. Trap's tactics at the moment mean there is no hope of our central midfielders doing anything creative on the ball. .

There was a moment in the 2nd half where Gibson burst through 2 players to win a ball went round a 3rd and rather than bring it forward suddenly checked and passed backwards, you could almost see him thinking this is what I'm supposed to do.....which makes you think are our midfielders really **** or are they instructed to be negative and ****

Lord Trollington

Its has been said before, but looking last night at the preformance of Andrews and Gibson and Whelan last Satuday, how **** must Andy Reid and Lee Carsley feel?

I have yet to see a midfielder of international standard play as poorly as Andrews did last night.

How many times did he give away the ball when he did get on it?

He ran around like a headless chicken.

He has absolutely no vision, when duffer came on he provided some real width, and several times wide balls were on, but instead he kept it narrow.
It really does beg belief how he is in this team.

The Rooster

whycliff wrote: »

You would start Liam Lawerence at the expense of who exactly?
His first Start in a green jersey and you want him to play against Italy, your having a laugh surely??!

If Lawrence was to start it would be at the expense of Hunt. Not much between them

deisedude

The Rooster wrote: »

If Lawrence was to start it would be at the expense of Hunt. Not much between them

I quite like Lawrence but throwing him in the deep end against Italy would be mad. Hunt is far faster on the counter attack than Lawrence which we are defo going to need against the Italians

Lord Trollington

The Rooster wrote: »

If Lawrence was to start it would be at the expense of Hunt. Not much between them

So you'd start Lawerence and Hunt before McGeady.

For me McGeady is the only player we have that can create something out of nothing.

CHD

whycliff wrote: »

So you'd start Lawerence and Hunt before McGeady.

For me McGeady is the only player we have that can create something out of nothing.

When has he ever done that?

Lord Trollington

deisedude wrote: »

I quite like Lawrence but throwing him in the deep end against Italy would be mad. Hunt is far faster on the counter attack than Lawrence which we are defo going to need against the Italians

Hunt is a headless chicken that has no first touch. He has no skill to beat his man, all he does is hit it ahead of both him and his marker and hope to get their first.
He is wreckless tackler, and really has no football brain.

I'm not a major Celtic fan, but how anyone can rate Hunt or Lawerence above McGeady is beyond me.
McGeady has played champions League football and has played very well for Celtic in this.
Hunt has played championship level last year.
Lawerence has done nothing to prove he is worthy of a start, he has 3 caps to date.

Lord Trollington

CHD wrote: »

When has he ever done that?

what has Lawerence or Hunt ever done?

Spiritoftheseventies

whycliff wrote: »

You would start Liam Lawerence at the expense of who exactly?
His first Start in a green jersey and you want him to play against Italy, your having a laugh surely??!

Giles and Dunphy made a good case for him last night. Certainly puts himself about. scored with a good free kick and nearly got a second near the end. Midfield no means decided for Italy game. And as Lawro said in Times on Monday, we really can not afford to go into game with S Ireland.
Yes we should get second place in the group but who knows who me might draw in the play offs. Some good teams in there . Beating Italy means our fate is in own hands.

The Rooster

whycliff wrote: »

So you'd start Lawerence and Hunt before McGeady.

For me McGeady is the only player we have that can create something out of nothing.

I didnt say that.
Somebody asked who would lose their place if Lawrence started.
And I just gave the answer - Hunt.

McGeady was dropped for Cyprus, so clearly needs to impress Trap between now and the Italian game to get back in the reckoning.

CHD

whycliff wrote: »

what has Lawerence or Hunt ever done?

When did i say they did anything?

deisedude

whycliff wrote: »

Hunt is a headless chicken that has no first touch. He has no skill to beat his man, all he does is hit it ahead of both him and his marker and hope to get their first.
He is wreckless tackler, and really has no football brain.

I'm not a major Celtic fan, but how anyone can rate Hunt or Lawerence above McGeady is beyond me.
McGeady has played champions League football and has played very well for Celtic in this.
Hunt has played championship level last year.
Lawerence has done nothing to prove he is worthy of a start, he has 3 caps to date.

Are you trying to convince everyone McGeady is world class because he has played in the champs league or something? Liam Miller played in the champions league for feck sake. If McGeady was playing in the premiership he would be playing for a mid table club like Hunt and Lawrence are. Hunt isnt great by any stretch of the imagination but at least he wins frees and can track back.

Mars Bar

Personally, I believe that McGeady is the biggest waste of space on a football pitch. I HATE seeing him on the starting 11. He only runs around like a headless chicken and gives the ball away when he goes on a wild run. As deisedude said, Hunt will actually track back and he wins free kicks. Not that I like Hunt that much more either...

Tom65

whycliff wrote: »

You would start Liam Lawerence at the expense of who exactly?
His first Start in a green jersey and you want him to play against Italy, your having a laugh surely??!

Read my post:

I was very impressed, to the point that if he had more experience I'd be thinking of him to start against Italy.

I wouldn't start him against Italy precisely because he's only played one game for Ireland.

Lord Trollington

Hull city a mid table team... pffttthh
The finshed one point above relegation.

Ireland have no world class players.*

Everyone is entitled to their opinion about McGeady,Hunt and Lawerence.

I would hold a strong opinion that McGeady would be a better player than Hunt because he can offer you something different.

I agree McGeady can be lazy at times and must improve on this, but going forward he's excellent, has excellent feet can beat his man.

*maybe with the exception of given because of how important he is to us.

deisedude

whycliff wrote: »

Hull city a mid table team... pffttthh
The finshed one point above relegation.

Ireland have no world class players.*

Everyone is entitled to their opinion about McGeady,Hunt and Lawerence.

I would hold a strong opinion that McGeady would be a better player than Hunt because he can offer you something different.

I agree McGeady can be lazy at times and must improve on this, but going forward he's excellent, has excellent feet can beat his man.

*maybe with the exception of given because of how important he is to us.

He might be excellent going forward against the likes of Livingston but he hasnt done much in an Irish shirt that could be described as excellent. He might be a more talented player than Hunt but until he improves defensively i wouldnt dream of starting him ahead of Hunt

Fuhrer

whycliff wrote: »

I would hold a strong opinion that McGeady would be a better player than Hunt because he can offer you something different.

Why is different better?

parker kent

whycliff wrote: »

So you'd start Lawerence and Hunt before McGeady.

For me McGeady is the only player we have that can create something out of nothing.

Yes he can...by trying a stupid, never going to work dribble and giving the ball away, thus creating a chance out of nothing for the opposition!

bayviewclose wrote: »

Giles and Dunphy made a good case for him last night. Certainly puts himself about. scored with a good free kick and nearly got a second near the end. Midfield no means decided for Italy game. And as Lawro said in Times on Monday, we really can not afford to go into game with S Ireland.
Yes we should get second place in the group but who knows who me might draw in the play offs. Some good teams in there . Beating Italy means our fate is in own hands.

Our fate is far from in our own hands in the group!! We need help to finish first, second is looking pretty much like where we will be. Though COME ON BULGARIA!!!!!

eirebhoy

Pro. F wrote: »

I agree with most of this. Trap's tactics at the moment mean there is no hope of our central midfielders doing anything creative on the ball. And the tactics will surely change when (if) S Reid comes back. Iirc when Reid was fit before, we were much better in possession.

I do think that Andrews and Gibson, and as a result the whole team, would benefit from being allowed to show for the ball, when the defenders have it, and trying to play it through midfield. But i don't think that the Italian game shows anything special from the pair - the italians were sitting so deep that our midfield weren't under any pressure in possession.

We looked really classy against Italy. Whelan played an incredible amount of over 70 passes that night. Andrews was dominant too. The football was free flowing. They rarely gave the ball away. When Italy had the ball they pressed them and got it back. That football in Bari was completely different to the football of the last 3 matches. And that is down to Trapattoni. Pure and Simple.

I actually couldn't care less about Whelan, Andrews or Gibson. I'm one of S.Reid's biggest fans. But I still find it very frustrating that the vast majority of people are blaming our central midfielders for our woeful football. It's Trap's tactics!

/your post is quoted just because I thought our football was terrific in Italy.

eirebhoy

mars bar wrote: »

Personally, I believe that McGeady is the biggest waste of space on a football pitch. I HATE seeing him on the starting 11. He only runs around like a headless chicken and gives the ball away when he goes on a wild run. As deisedude said, Hunt will actually track back and he wins free kicks. Not that I like Hunt that much more either...

Watch his 2 games against Arsenal to blow that myth out of the water. He's a much more intelligent player than many Irish people think. Depends what role he has in the team. If his role is to beat players and put crosses in it's the biggest load of old fashioned rubbish. Full backs should be doing most of the crossing these days. If you have the ability to beat a player I think it's a big waste if all you're going to do is cross the ball. If you can beat a player then make your way towards the box.

Pro. F

eirebhoy wrote: »

We looked really classy against Italy. Whelan played an incredible amount of over 70 passes that night. Andrews was dominant too. The football was free flowing. They rarely gave the ball away. When Italy had the ball they pressed them and got it back. That football in Bari was completely different to the football of the last 3 matches. And that is down to Trapattoni. Pure and Simple.

I actually couldn't care less about Whelan, Andrews or Gibson. I'm one of S.Reid's biggest fans. But I still find it very frustrating that the vast majority of people are blaming our central midfielders for our woeful football. It's Trap's tactics!

/your post is quoted just because I thought our football was terrific in Italy.

I agree with you about Trap's tactics being a big problem and that they make our CMs look worse than they are. But I don't see how you could use the Italy game to judge the Irish midfield. Italy were so easy to play against that night once they went sitting deep and defending. Whelan and Andrews passed it around no problem but they were under nearly zero pressure when on the ball. It just wasn't a good test.

dogpile

mars bar wrote: »

Personally, I believe that McGeady is the biggest waste of space on a football pitch. I HATE seeing him on the starting 11. He only runs around like a headless chicken and gives the ball away when he goes on a wild run. As deisedude said, Hunt will actually track back and he wins free kicks. Not that I like Hunt that much more either...

Hunt will give away as many free kicks as possesion, don't rate either of them...McGeady in particular is a huge disapointment, never lived up to the hype and is in fact very average

eirebhoy

Pro. F wrote: »

I agree with you about Trap's tactics being a big problem and that they make our CMs look worse than they are. But I don't see how you could use the Italy game to judge the Irish midfield. Italy were so easy to play against that night once they went sitting deep and defending. Whelan and Andrews passed it around no problem but they were under nearly zero pressure when on the ball. It just wasn't a good test.

But McShane, Dunne and O'Shea don't go from 96%+ pass success rate down to around 50% because they're having an easier time. We started that game in Italy with a few long balls. There was hardly a long ball to be seen for 70 minutes after the sending off. It's tactics. Maybe Trap only trusts our midfield when playing against 10 men or when Reid is in the team.

Mars Bar

eirebhoy wrote: »

Watch his 2 games against Arsenal to blow that myth out of the water. He's a much more intelligent player than many Irish people think. Depends what role he has in the team. If his role is to beat players and put crosses in it's the biggest load of old fashioned rubbish. Full backs should be doing most of the crossing these days. If you have the ability to beat a player I think it's a big waste if all you're going to do is cross the ball. If you can beat a player then make your way towards the box.

9 times outta 10 he will get the ball and run, if he hasn't given it away by the time he gets to the end line, he attempts at crossing the ball and usually fails. If he has the ability to get past players, as you say he does, why doesn't he head for the goal? I agree with you in that that's what he should be doing but he always heads towards the sideline. He really pisses me off...

Pro. F

eirebhoy wrote: »

But McShane, Dunne and O'Shea don't go from 96%+ pass success rate down to around 50% because they're having an easier time. We started that game in Italy with a few long balls. There was hardly a long ball to be seen for 70 minutes after the sending off. It's tactics. Maybe Trap only trusts our midfield when playing against 10 men or when Reid is in the team.

Yes the tactics changed (or were allowed to change by Trap) when the Italians fell back and gave up trying to play. I'm not disputing that. And I was also happy enough with how we played that night.

But I am saying that that doesn't prove one way or the other how good our midfielders are. When the opposition are defending deep with 10 men it is not a good time to try and judge how good our midfielders are. What I'm saying is that the central midfielders' job becomes easier when the oppostion are not closing down and pressuring you on the ball. So Whealan and Andrews could be good, bad or indifferent but that Italy game is not much of an indicator.

A_Fitz

eirebhoy wrote: »

Watch his 2 games against Arsenal to blow that myth out of the water. He's a much more intelligent player than many Irish people think. Depends what role he has in the team. If his role is to beat players and put crosses in it's the biggest load of old fashioned rubbish. Full backs should be doing most of the crossing these days. If you have the ability to beat a player I think it's a big waste if all you're going to do is cross the ball. If you can beat a player then make your way towards the box.

If Trap were willing to change his tactics a bit, then maybe McGeady could have a more successful role in a central attacking position, maybe just behind the strikers? He has skill, no doubt, but he does blow hot and cold and has been often unimpressive for Ireland. Maybe, as Eirebhoy has pointed out, he's slightly wasted in the role he's been asked to fill. On the other hand, I don't think he has ever filled the promise he once had, unfortunately.

It's Trap's tactics!

True, but ANdrews, Gibson and Gibson are still nowhere near good enough for this level, IMHO anyway

Mars Bar

True, but ANdrews, Whelan and Gibson are still nowhere near good enough for this level, IMHO anyway

FYP

briany

I watched the game on Tuesday night and the only real highlights for me were the great free kick and some resolute defending by Ireland. Other than that, it was pretty snooze-worthy.