Public sector workers willing to take pay cuts?

damo

First of all this not an anti public sector worker post.

It has been apparant for some time that there needs to be job losses and pay cuts in the public sector, but given the horrendous state the country finds itself in today thanks to the policies of the bertie ahern and brian cowen governments, aswell as total recklesness by the countries banks, the need for huge cuts in public spending has never been as apparant as it is now. The budget deficit is expected to exceed 20 billion.

So to the public sector workers on here: will you accept the pay cuts that are coming in the next budget, or would you consider a pay cut as reason for industrial action?

connundrum

Surely it'd be better that all public sector workers take a 20% pay cut in order to potentially save 1000 jobs (for example).

Its better to have those 1000 people still employed, paying taxes, rather than going on the dole.

What sort of a pay cut would they have to take to save 17,000 jobs?

javaboy

Moved from After Hours.

gerry28

So to the public sector workers on here: will you accept the pay cuts that are coming in the next budget, or would you consider a pay cut as reason for industrial action?

No i'm not willing to accept a paycut. But it would have to be a fairly large one before i'd be on the street striking. I'm not going to strike over a couple of percent.

I think this next budget will take enough from my wages without a pay cut. Property tax, carbon tax and water charges will all be in within 2 years. So I couldn't accept a paycut with those cuts coming down the track.

marzic

yes. Even if i was permanent (contract till may 2010, then...?), I would be willing to drop my pay a bit more. I definately would take a further cut if I could secure a long term contract. In fairness I'm in a mid/higher end technical grade which in my opinion pays better now than private sector equivalent and probably did during the boom too(altho there were good bonus payments in private sector), for less hours. I know the lower grade admin salaries are sh*te in public sector/local gov.

P. Breathnach

damo wrote: »

... So to the public sector workers on here: will you accept the pay cuts that are coming in the next budget, or would you consider a pay cut as reason for industrial action?

Even public sector workers who are resigned to the possibility of pay cuts are unlikely to say that they support or welcome the idea. Human nature.

alentejo

I would be prepared to take a 5% pay cut. This would mean that in the space of one year would mean a 10% reduction (incl pension levy)in net pay over one year. (not including the tax Levy's imposed in both budgets)

However, I get really worried when the additional tax's burdens are suggested and interest rate rises in the future.

I fear that in one or two years time that I will be well paid by European norms, however will be cash poor due to high mortgages and high taxation.

I do think that this country has been scandalously mis managed over the past decade.

Sarn

I would be prepared to take another hit, but I have no dependents and in the fortunate position of having no debt. Currently, between the pension levy and the other tax changes my take home pay is down just over 15%.

efb

Well the two biggest things for me re mismanagement were the creation for pointless QUANGOs and Benchmarking.

All those independent bodies set up to deflect blame from the government, Financial Regulator (sic)- what did they actually regulate? All i ever heard from them was credit unions were loaning money to poor people and that was bad (can poor people's non repayment ruin an economy?)

All those commissions, I don't have time to list them off, and all those regulatory bodies that still seem to have to revert to the Minister anyway (Energy)

Benchmarking was a joke and so was partnership in the Celtic Tigers years, payrises for all (unionised workers) cosy jobs for the union chiefs (FÁS anyone...) and the politician's were happy meanwhile inflation soared and competitiveness was lost, but that wasn't going to stop the cosy cartel.

I'm not taking a cheap dig at the PS, I've friends in there who are checked by the beuracracy (sp), and felt quite demorilised in their job, but if we want to identify the failing of the current/previous governments then this is it. (And its not as if anyone in the opposition benches can go crowing either, they proposed similar or worse, and we as a people didn't turn up our noses to it either. So maybe its time we all took stock and were a little less Brendan, and a little more grace.

amacca

If I still worked in the public sector I think I might not have a choice in the matter. If I still worked there I think I would say yes with some caveats.

My decision would be based on how I see the burden of taxation being redistributed and how they deal with social welfare.

If I seen high earners (250k -500k) continue tor get away with paying as little as 20% tax in total (as little as 5% in some cases pre 2007) while the rest of us middle income earnersw shell out much much more than this in taxes both direct and indirect then I would have to say I would have a massive problem with taking a pay cut.

If I seen a generation of people who dont want to work and wont work getting money handed to the gratis to spend in the local off license/ bookies/ lanzaorote etc then I might have a problem with taking a cut. (disclaimer, I do not include the recently unemployed, disabled people, people who have made their contributions etc in this group, just joe nixer and joe double claimer and pump em out annie in the free council house....no one should pay for these peoples lifestyles...its not even good for them in the long run never mind the society we have to live in)

It would also make a cut much more acceptable if the cost of living was coming down to the same extent as the cut.....the 5% reduction we heard about recently was comprised mostly of mortgage repayment reductions which will almost surely be reversed in the coming years and start heading the other way. The real reduction seems to be in the order of about 1%....I do realise that a paycut usually precedes a reduction in the cost of living but in the current situation I think that wages will proably go down while cost of living increases (10% reduction in the cost of gas or not).....that also makes paycuts hard to swallow.

But as I said its probably going to happen anyway. However if the above isnt tackled then I would be surprised if paycuts are accepted meekly by the ps. I for one would support them in resisting a cut if the above wasnt tackled.

Drumpot

amacca wrote: »

joe double claimer and pump em out annie in the free council house.....

That had my wife in stitches . . So funny and so true . .


And I agree with your post, above part just had to be highlighted . .

stereo_steve

connundrum wrote: »

Its better to have those 1000 people still employed, paying taxes, rather than going on the dole.

The Public sector don't pay taxes. They are a loss to the system. Before someone jumps on me, this is not an attack!! Just pointing it out for your calculations.

So its better to have public sector employees out of work from a financial perspective. Ideally we would move excess public sector employees to the private sector assuming there were jobs.

Trix

stereo_steve wrote: »

The Public sector don't pay taxes. They are a loss to the system. Before someone jumps on me, this is not an attack!! Just pointing it out for your calculations.

So its better to have public sector employees out of work from a financial perspective. Ideally we would move excess public sector employees to the private sector assuming there were jobs.

I work in the public sector and i pay taxes. don't we all?

FlutterinBantam

Bottom line ladies and gents.

We cannot tax our way out of this, tax is at saturation point.

What must happen now is cost reduction, no way out of it.

Whether that will be by job losses, reduced pay, is not clear,but the fact remains,

IT HAS TO HAPPEN

mikemac

Is benchmarking still in operation?

Like does it provide for salary cuts?
If a few years ago the analysts reckoned certain public sector job were underpaid, will they analyze it again against equivalent jobs and start cutting pay?

Or does benchmarking only work one way.............

Drumpot

mikemac wrote: »

Is benchmarking still in operation?


Or does benchmarking only work one way.............

When it comes to buying votes . . It only goes one way Im afraid . .

Theres also the lack of political will to bring more pressure on them to reduce their own costs to the exchequer.

Not Public servants fault . .

meath commuter

My family was fairly comfortable - having been through the 80's we didn't extend ourselves too much and have a reasonable mortgage (albeit an hour from Dublin). However, our income has reduced by €1000 per month already! As mentioned above, it seems as if all the cuts are being foisted on the middle-income PAYE worker.

However, there is another way our of this mess that seems to have been overlooked. Re-deploy some of the excess public sector numbers to combat fraud! Revenue & Social Welfare (& others) could, with a little effort, bring in Billions in savings which would negate the need for any radical surgery.

Once Joe Nixer and Joe double-claimer (very good amacca) realise that the chances are that they'll be caught and the penalties are just not worth it, then attitudes will change throughout the Country.

That, in my view, is the main problem with Ireland today. Although we are allegedly a social democracy, too many people are jsut out for what they can scr€w out of the state and their fellow citizens. People need to acknowledge their responsibilities and actually participate in the system - not just complain about it!

Drumpot

meath commuter wrote: »

That, in my view, is the main problem with Ireland today. Although we are allegedly a social democracy, too many people are jsut out for what they can scr€w out of the state and their fellow citizens. People need to acknowledge their responsibilities and actually participate in the system - not just complain about it!

They say a government mirrors its people, we are doomed ! ! . .

ednwireland

meath commuter wrote: »

My family was fairly comfortable - having been through the 80's we didn't extend ourselves too much and have a reasonable mortgage (albeit an hour from Dublin). However, our income has reduced by €1000 per month already! As mentioned above, it seems as if all the cuts are being foisted on the middle-income PAYE worker.

QUOTE]

why do you think that is ? its the easiest hit we are working therfore too busy to complain or protest, its also the biggest return for the exchequer, chasing aftyer high earners wont bring in anywhere near the money slapping some tax on people who cant avoid it will

ive just taken a 10% pay cut we've just cut another 20% out of our running costs to try and survive (i just wish the public sector/ civil service could adopt this attitude )

jimmmy

meath commuter wrote: »

However, our income has reduced by €1000 per month already! As mentioned above, it seems as if all the cuts are being foisted on the middle-income PAYE worker.

Many other people in the state - the majority who pay your wages - only wish they had a permanent and pensionable job , with an income high enough to suffer a " €1000 per month already " hit when take home pay is reduced by a relatively small percentage.

irish_bob

stereo_steve wrote: »

The Public sector don't pay taxes. They are a loss to the system. Before someone jumps on me, this is not an attack!! Just pointing it out for your calculations.

So its better to have public sector employees out of work from a financial perspective. Ideally we would move excess public sector employees to the private sector assuming there were jobs.

you are entirely correct , if you have a civil servant on 30 k per year and they pay 5 k in tax , the cost to the state is 25 k per year , if you sack the same civil servant and pay them 15 k in benefits , the cost to the state is 15k , a saving of 10 k , if the state simply paid public servants a lesser wage tax free , thier would be no real difference

ardmacha

Many other people in the state - the majority who pay your wages - only wish they had a permanent and pensionable job , with an income high enough to suffer a " €1000 per month already " hit when take home pay is reduced by a relatively small percentage.

Since such jobs were available over the years one wonders why they didn't get one, if it was of interest to them. Were they of lower calibre than present public servants?

thebman

Trix wrote: »

I work in the public sector and i pay taxes. don't we all?

A better way to put it would be the dead weight in the public sector would cost less on the dole as they don't contribute enough to the state to actually pay their wages.

You pay tax but you work for the government so they pay your full wage and then take a little back which is where the you don't pay tax thing comes from.

If I give you 30,000 and you give me back 7,000 and I call it tax then couldn't I have just given you 23,000 and saved us all a lot of bother?

To say the entire wage is a downside to the economy assumes the work done is of no use to the economy which is probably inaccurate in most cases.

ronbyrne2005

Listening to economic commentators and people close to power they are likely to benchmark public sector to average rates in public sectors across Europe which would mean substantial pay cuts as PS here are paid a lot more than EU average. I cant really see any justification for complaints against such a process, as we are part of EU and in competition with other EU countries. Maybe the PS could be cut to average EU levels plus a bit extra to cover for higher cost of living here relative to EU average. We are no more than an average EU country now so can only afford to pay average EU payrates.

jimmmy

ardmacha wrote: »

Since such jobs were available over the years one wonders why they didn't get one,

Not everyone in the country can or should be a public servant.

thebman

ardmacha wrote: »

Since such jobs were available over the years one wonders why they didn't get one, if it was of interest to them. Were they of lower calibre than present public servants?

Maybe someone elses old, worthless hole was already in the position when they graduated from college.

/not normally this rough but your post deserved such a response.

ronbyrne2005

jimmmy wrote: »

Not everyone in the country can or should be a public servant.

but EVERYONE has to pay for the public service. Why should PS earn so much more than private in pay and pensions when they have such great job security etc? In every other EU country PS earns less than private(after controlling for education etc) and the PS in those countries are happy wth that as they have job security and pride in their provision of public services. They also pay much higher income taxes in EU on their LOWER pay and pensions! We really have been living in fantasy land in this country over past decade.

jimmmy

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

but EVERYONE has to pay for the public service. Why should PS earn so much more than private in pay and pensions when they have such great job security etc? In every other EU country PS earns less than private(after controlling for education etc) and the PS in those countries are happy wth that as they have job security and pride in their provision of public services.

I could not agree more, and 95% of people I know ( even public servants themselves ) agree with you and me on that point too.

I_am_Jebus

another productive public service pay/numbers thread I see. :rolleyes: Just what we needed.

mellyzeb

Wake up folks - the average public servant doesn't earn more than their private sector equivilant. The 'average wage' people know about is taking into account the huge salaries top public servants are on - there is a huge disparity between this and the middle to lower paid staff who make up most of the public workforce.

jimmmy

mellyzeb wrote: »

Wake up folks - the average public servant doesn't earn more than their private sector equivilant.

Rubbish. Every survey, study etc says otherwise. Even public service security guards get paid almost double their private sector equivalent, per hour. Compare the pay + pensions of our politicians, nurses, police, teachers with other countries....it is considerably more.