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Public sector workers willing to take pay cuts?

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    #362
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    irish_bob wrote: »
    i really have heard it all now

    I'm sure I have not yet


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    #363
    Trishis
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭Trishis


    amacca wrote: »
    Say what? What you talkin bout willis?


    I assume you are in the private sector?

    Are your wages not your gross pay until tax (deductions) are made and then they become your net pay.

    Is a public servants wages not his/her gross wages until tax (deductions) is/are taken out of them and then they become net pay too.

    Is this an accounting thread?

    Do you in fact mean that the public sector don't pay any tax at all when you think about it and really they are just a bunch of parasites sucking our country dry and they should in fact be taken out and shot so that everyone in the private sector doesn't have to pay their wages?

    I'm expecting big thanks for the above paragraph from certain posters.


    Totally agree Ammacca.....what a silly statement, of course we pay Taxes. I think the private sector thinks its one big tea break in the Public service and the private sector are sweating every day, working sooo hard to pay the public service wages...Poor Private Sector!

    By the way Mr. Micra, Im a PA, so I know they work hard. Doesnt stop me sticking up for clerical officers in the Public Service though, i just dont think they should have to pay for this mess, no more than the low paid in the Private sector should have to pay for the mess. People on the bottom should not have to pay for the mistakes of the people at the top. That includes low paid in both sectors and people on benefits...why cut benefits when peopl eare already struggling. Then we'll start complaining about crime and wonder what pushed people....


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    #364
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    Its worth noting that you could fire every single person in the public sector, guards, teachers, everyone, and still not break even on the tax revenues coming in.

    Does anyone know is the €13 billion quango bill part of the €20 billion public sector bill? Its really hard to get solid figures by which to make an impartial judgement.


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    #365
    optocynic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭optocynic


    Trishis wrote: »
    Totally agree Ammacca.....what a silly statement, of course we pay Taxes. I think the private sector thinks its one big tea break in the Public service and the private sector are sweating every day, working sooo hard to pay the public service wages...Poor Private Sector!

    It is a huge tea break... there is NO accountability in the public sector.
    In the private sector, we are given targets, annual reviews, and if we don't perform... we get NO raise..

    The PS was getting annual raises without review.. and regardless of performance... hence the attitude that the PS leans on the shovel!!


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    #366
    optocynic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭optocynic


    Trishis wrote: »
    ...why cut benefits when peopl eare already struggling. Then we'll start complaining about crime and wonder what pushed people....

    I have heard this arguement before... and I kinda agree with it... but here is the bigger issue.. why do we assume that people on benefits can't be trusted to not break the law when not given their handouts...

    Ridiculously large handouts too by international standards!!

    Is it that they are self-serving malcontents?... and are simply sponging the system... basically threatening to riot and rob if not paid off... isn't there a name for that?

    Note: Not all on welfare are like this... but some are!!


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    #367
    doncarlos
    Registered Users Posts: 2,838 ✭✭✭doncarlos


    irish_bob wrote: »
    and a 10% pay cut for clerical officers who are still considerably better paid than secretary and recptionists in the private sector

    You really don't have a clue do you?? Clerical officer is a grade not a job description. I'm on the clerical officer grade and work in the IT department of a semi state body. I carry out high skilled work and have an honours degree in IT.

    I'm expecting more wage cuts but talk of 50, 25, or even 10% like you have suggested are absolutely ridiculous. They would cripple me and most workers on the same grade/payscales financially.


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    #368
    optocynic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭optocynic


    doncarlos wrote: »
    You really don't have a clue do you?? Clerical officer is a grade not a job description. I'm on the clerical officer grade and work in the IT department of a semi state body. I carry out high skilled work and have an honours degree in IT.

    I'm expecting more wage cuts but talk of 50, 25, or even 10% like you have suggested are absolutely ridiculous. They would cripple me and most workers on the same grade/payscales financially.

    I agree with you... but, (and I already know what you will reply), can you honestly say you work as hard or are as busy as an IT resource in... say, Vodafone? And they have reduced salaries.. and have let people go too...


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    #369
    Trishis
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭Trishis


    optocynic wrote: »
    It is a huge tea break... there is NO accountability in the public sector.
    In the private sector, we are given targets, annual reviews, and if we don't perform... we get NO raise..

    The PS was getting annual raises without review.. and regardless of performance... hence the attitude that the PS leans on the shovel!!


    Ever heard of PMDS? it means Performance Management Development system. Its a review system for Public sector staff linked to annual performance and payment increments. As I said before Public Service have targets and deadlines too, some very strict ones linked to the Dail. You obviously haven't got a clue.


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    #370
    optocynic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭optocynic


    Trishis wrote: »
    Ever heard of PMDS? it means Performance Management Development system. Its a review system for Public sector staff linked to annual performance and payment increments. As I said before Public Service have targets and deadlines too, some very strict ones linked to the Dail. You obviously haven't got a clue.

    Really??.. I don't have a clue?
    Well, lets bring it down to simple points.

    Do you have a guaranteed pension?
    Have you gotten an increase every year under social partnership?
    Is your salary above the national average?
    Are you against a new benchmarking of PS pay?

    And most importantly.. are you willing to take a hit to help the economy? Like the rest of us have in salary cuts?


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    #371
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,995 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Trishis wrote:
    Ever heard of PMDS? it means Performance Management Development system. Its a review system for Public sector staff linked to annual performance and payment increments. As I said before Public Service have targets and deadlines too, some very strict ones linked to the Dail. You obviously haven't got a clue.

    Is that the one where everyone gets a 3 every year and no-one gets a poor rating?


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    #372
    optocynic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭optocynic


    Stark wrote: »
    Is that the one where everyone gets a 3 every year and no-one gets a poor rating?


    Yep... It's the funniest 'bell-curve' ever!
    No doubt they will disagree.


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    #373
    doncarlos
    Registered Users Posts: 2,838 ✭✭✭doncarlos


    Yes I would say I work as hard and I'm as busy someone in Vodafone's IT department as we have lost two people from our IT section in the last year as they were not on permanent contracts. I have no idea what someone in Vodafone would be earning but I would be confident that it would be higher than what I'm on as one of my college mates went straight from college into a supervisor role in Vodafone. The level he went in on is still higher than I'm on.

    Anyhow my reply was to irish_bob who thinks that all clerical officers are receptionists or secretaries.


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    #374
    optocynic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭optocynic


    doncarlos wrote: »
    Yes I would say I work as hard and I'm as busy someone in Vodafone's IT department as we have lost two people from our IT section in the last year as they were not on permanent contracts. I have no idea what someone in Vodafone would be earning but I would be confident that it would be higher than what I'm on as one of my college mates went straight from college into a supervisor role in Vodafone. The level he went in on is still higher than I'm on.

    Anyhow my reply was to irish_bob who thinks that all clerical officers are receptionists or secretaries.

    Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight!


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    #375
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Ever heard of PMDS?

    give me a break its a complete waste of time

    its something that could have been very good but implementation has been terrible

    major reform is needed to allow PS managers actually manage including tackling under-performance

    Is that the one where everyone gets a 3 every year and no-one gets a poor rating?

    not my experience of it

    most 3 or 4 , very few 5 or 2, hardly any 1

    I have known of attempts to stop an increment/not end probation but are extremely difficult and system does not support - see my comments about reform
    Do you have a guaranteed pension?

    yes, but I do contribute to it, albeit I could do more
    Have you gotten an increase every year under social partnership?

    I have recieved national pay deal increases (which also included some private sector)...not every year

    there are increments if thats what you mean

    Is your salary above the national average?

    mine is but many PS are not

    its a bit meaningless really as many people are above/below it (obviously)
    Are you against a new benchmarking of PS pay?

    yes, as documented on threads here.

    I was always against it, its a Bertie fix-it tool and should never have happened. I have suggested removing the increases given by benchmarking as the pay cut for public servants and consigning it to the bin

    people also seem to be calling for it as they believe it will result in large cuts, but I would not be so sure
    are you willing to take a hit to help the economy?


    yes i already have and expect another

    Like the rest of us have in salary cuts?

    the rest of us? I dont think so

    I know private sector people who have not had a pay cut, some who got bonuses and one who got a pay increase

    this solidarity stuff is a red herring


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    #376
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    optocynic wrote: »
    Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight!

    good analytical response there based on investigation of facts and backed up by evidence.......


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    #377
    gazzer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,049 ✭✭✭gazzer


    Drumpot wrote: »

    In Public and Private debate - public sector pensions are guaranteed. The value is dependent on your final salary and service. The government guarantees you a salary thats 2-3rds of your salary. With Private pensions the value is dependent on your returns and what you put in.

    I work in the civil service and i will get 1/2 of my salary as a pension.. not 2/3rds.


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    #378
    optocynic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭optocynic


    gazzer wrote: »
    I work in the civil service and i will get 1/2 of my salary as a pension.. not 2/3rds.

    Awwww... poor pigeon!!!
    What do you say to the millions across the world that are now getting nothing?


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    #379
    doncarlos
    Registered Users Posts: 2,838 ✭✭✭doncarlos


    optocynic wrote: »
    Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight!

    Which part of my post was your fabulous well thought out retort aimed at?


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    #380
    optocynic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭optocynic


    Riskymove wrote: »
    good analytical response there based on investigation of facts and backed up by evidence.......

    Indeed... I felt my 'Doctor Evil' response fit best there...
    That is how he and I respond to subversions of the truth!


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    #381
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    optocynic wrote: »
    Awwww... poor pigeon!!!
    What do you say to the millions across the world that are now getting nothing?

    so now errors cant be clarified?

    on that basis there are millions without jobs, homes, education, enough food to live on, dying in camps etc

    what would you say to them?


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    #382
    gazzer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,049 ✭✭✭gazzer


    optocynic wrote: »
    Awwww... poor pigeon!!!
    What do you say to the millions across the world that are now getting nothing?

    Eh I am just clarifying that the pension is 1/2 and not two third's. Also that half includes the state pension. No need for the sarcasm pal.


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    #383
    optocynic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭optocynic


    doncarlos wrote: »
    Which part of my post was your fabulous well thought out retort aimed at?

    The part that says you are paid less then an IT resource in Vodafone.. whist you are in a semi-state.. I know that is not true... I was in Vodafone...
    A standard IT resource there earns just over average national wage..


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    #384
    optocynic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭optocynic


    Riskymove wrote: »
    so now errors cant be clarified?

    on that basis there are millions without jobs, homes, education, enough food to live on, dying in camps etc

    what would you say to them?


    That I will help them however I can... I would not hide behind Jack O'Connor to protect my overly inflated wages.

    And those people are the real poor... not the pretend poor we have here!


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    #385
    optocynic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭optocynic


    gazzer wrote: »
    Eh I am just clarifying that the pension is 1/2 and not two third's. Also that half includes the state pension. No need for the sarcasm pal.

    Agreed... sorry for the sarcasm!


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    #386
    SparkyLarks
    Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭SparkyLarks


    am I the only one who thinks that it;s about numbers in the Public service as opposed to the actual Pay.

    Yes the Top earners need to be hammered, and moved need to be taken the salaries in the Public sector closer to the European norms in the long term.

    But the real key is to get rid of the larg administrative burdens placed on the front line staff.

    Lots of other reform needed as well, regarding expenses, subsidies cantees and the like.


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    #387
    doncarlos
    Registered Users Posts: 2,838 ✭✭✭doncarlos


    optocynic wrote: »
    The part that says you are paid less then an IT resource in Vodafone.. whist you are in a semi-state.. I know that is not true... I was in Vodafone...
    A standard IT resource there earns just over average national wage..

    I said i didn't know Vodafone IT wages but I would assume based on what a supervisor (less skilled job) is on. What skills did your Vodafone It resource have? My wage is just over 27k which is 15% less than the national average wage of 32K (wage of vodafone IT resource according to you).


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    #388
    optocynic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭optocynic


    doncarlos wrote: »
    I said i didn't know Vodafone IT wages but I would assume based on what a supervisor (less skilled job) is on. What skills did your Vodafone It resource have? My wage is just over 27k which is 15% less than the national average wage of 32K (wage of vodafone IT resource according to you).

    Hang on... you are more skilled than a supervisor in Vodafone IT, but only earn 27k?..

    If that really is the case dude... I apologise.. and your money should not be cut more..

    But I ask... are you looking elsewhere?


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    #389
    doncarlos
    Registered Users Posts: 2,838 ✭✭✭doncarlos


    optocynic wrote: »
    Hang on... you are more skilled than a supervisor in Vodafone IT, but only earn 27k?..

    If that really is the case dude... I apologise.. and your money should not be cut more..

    But I ask... are you looking elsewhere?

    I meant a normal line supervisor in the call centre. I never mentioned IT supervisor but i can see how you may have took me up wrong.
    The guy that was in my class in college had six months working part time whilst at college and got a supervisor role straight out of college and the wages that he went in on is higher than what I'm on now.

    As for looking for a new job, I'm not at the minute. I love where I'm working now and I'm getting great experience. I may not have a choice as my agency is one of those being abolished under bord snip.


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    #390
    optocynic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭optocynic


    doncarlos wrote: »
    I meant a normal line supervisor in the call centre. I never mentioned IT supervisor but i can see how you may have took me up wrong.
    The guy that was in my class in college had six months working part time whilst at college and got a supervisor role straight out of college and the wages that he went in on is higher than what I'm on now.

    As for looking for a new job, I'm not at the minute. I love where I'm working now and I'm getting great experience. I may not have a choice as my agency is one of those being abolished under bord snip.

    Well, best of luck dude.. I am totally on your side.. for you to finish college.. and still only get 27k from the PS.. and O'Donoghue to spend that on one trip... makes me sick.

    You have studied and worked enough.. they should leave your money alone, and allow you to build a career!!


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    #391
    ParkRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭ParkRunner


    Looks like we are in for a winter of industrial unrest!

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0916/breaking21.htm


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