Public sector workers willing to take pay cuts?

irish_bob · 16-09-2009 4:04pm

kippy wrote: »

Sorry,
I wasnt asking you to stop giving your opinion.
I was asking you to stop being so blinkered and biased.

When you worked in the private sector did you EVER get an annual increase of 5k or anything close to it for that matter? Did you EVER receive a bonus?

The main reason a lot of these offices are busy is because of the sheer amount of paperwork involved in most of the public service. Theres been a serious lack of wanting to move online or reduce paperwork. People make the argument that we need paperwork so that we can trace things and have accountability but we all know theres feck all accountability at almost any level in Public Service.

I assume you meant everyone you knew in the PRIVATE sector go 5-10 k extra per annum as well as massive bonus' every christmas?
Did you know any Barpeople, Restraunt staff, shop assistants, Secretarys, first level IT support people working for large multinationals, private bus drivers, young people working in finance for large multinationals? I know lots of those people (the type of jobs that exist in the vast majority of Private sector are these type) and none were milking it as much as your friends.

one of the ways goverments maintain or grow thier popularity is by giving boosts to employment figures and because the goverment have thier hand in every area of the state sector , the thing is engineered in such a way as to provide maximum numbers of employees , why , votes , inneficency leads to reduced numbers of employees which results in a politician loosing a housefull of votes belonging to sacked state worker

doncarlos · 16-09-2009 4:07pm

optocynic wrote: »

Honestly.. I rarely consume public services.. and ones I do, I pay seperately for (Bins, Roads, water soon etc.)
So, I can honestly say, it would not affect me at all, if it was done properly.

No Garda job cuts, no Nurse job cuts are my only requests!

Fair enough, but the public service is there to provide a service to the public. Without giving my agency away we provide promotion, grants and specialist knowledge to a specific industry. This generates jobs and revenue from the industry. I'm sure we could demonstrate the value that we give the pubic as could most state and semi state bodies. The problem arises with duplication of jobs and from unmonitored spending. PPARS in the health service is a prime example of this.
All agencies should be providing value for money if they are not then that's where you look for wage cuts first.

optocynic · 16-09-2009 4:09pm

doncarlos wrote: »

Fair enough, but the public service is there to provide a service to the public. Without giving my agency away we provide promotion, grants and specialist knowledge to a specific industry. This generates jobs and revenue from the industry. I'm sure we could demonstrate the value that we give the pubic as could most state and semi state bodies. The problem arises with duplication of jobs and from unmonitored spending. PPARS in the health service is a prime example of this.
All agencies should be providing value for money if they are not then that's where you look for wage cuts first.

Wasn't that what McCarthy suggested... but the Feckin' Unemployable Headbangers (according to Michael O'Leary) in the unions are kicking up their usual hypocritical stink!!!

Riskymove · 16-09-2009 4:10pm

irish_bob wrote: »

one of the ways goverments maintain or grow thier popularity is by giving boosts to employment figures and because the goverment have thier hand in every area of the state sector , the thing is engineered in such a way as to provide maximum numbers of employees , why , votes , inneficency leads to reduced numbers of employees which results in a politician loosing a housefull of votes belonging to sacked state worker

sorry Bob, are you suggesting that if someone gets a job in the public sector there are so grateful as to vote for whoever happened to be in power at the time for ever?

if so, you are totally wide of the mark

and you made a similar refernce to "fianna fail workers" above; what did you mean by that?

optocynic · 16-09-2009 4:12pm

Riskymove wrote: »

sorry Bob, are you suggesting that if someone gets a job in the public sector there are so grateful as to vote for whoever happened to be in power at the time for ever?

if so, you are totally wide of the mark

and you made a similar refernce to "fianna fail workers" above; what did you mean by that?

I would have to agree with Bob... on a whole.. give a person a job (especially a cushy one).. and he will vote for you 9 times outta 10..

thebman · 16-09-2009 4:26pm

optocynic wrote: »

I would have to agree with Bob... on a whole.. give a person a job (especially a cushy one).. and he will vote for you 9 times outta 10..

yeah especially if he/she gives you a pay increase a month before election time.

doncarlos · 16-09-2009 4:28pm

irish_bob wrote: »

the claim that services must suffer if wages are cut is the biggest red fish of them all , if that were the case then nurses or police or doctors in the uk or other parts of europe would be providing an inferior service to the irish state sector and we all know that they dont

What are your wages? I bet you earn more than the equivalent in the uk or parts of Europe most of them can't afford a foreign holiday home like you

. Do you provide a better value for money to your employer than their employer would get?

irish_bob wrote: »

as for the claim that a lot of public sector workers will jump ship to the private sector , are you serious , give up a bullett proof pension for an entirely unpredictable one , take a huge pay cut , work harder ????

Eh yes, my pension doesn't pay my rent right now does it?? Take a huge pay cut?? How do you figure that as we have pay freezes at the minute. When the economy recovers it won't be long until I could earn a lot more in the private sector doing an equivalent job. Work harder?? I've worked in both the private and pubic sector and seen usless and lazy feckers in both. "the biggest red fish of them all" is the one bandied about by idiots that nobody in the public service does any work.

Riskymove · 16-09-2009 4:29pm

optocynic wrote: »

I would have to agree with Bob... on a whole.. give a person a job (especially a cushy one).. and he will vote for you 9 times outta 10..

well the most militant anti-FF people i know are in the public sector and there are plenty of lefties too

i joined the public sector during the rainbow coalition but have no particular feelings to vote for any of them for that reason

edit: the government doesn't "give"jobs to people anyway, while they might fund extra posts people go through competitions to get them so I dont believe they feel beholden to anyone

yeah especially if he/she gives you a pay increase a month before election time.

sure, the "buy an election" strategy and that goes for a welfare increase and lowering taxes etc as well as promises of more

but not just to public sector workers

thebman · 16-09-2009 4:31pm

Riskymove wrote: »

sure, the "buy an election" strategy and that goes for a welfare increase and lowering taxes etc as well as promises of more

but not just to public sector workers

I'd agree with that.

doncarlos · 16-09-2009 4:33pm

optocynic wrote: »

Wasn't that what McCarthy suggested... but the Feckin' Unemployable Headbangers (according to Michael O'Leary) in the unions are kicking up their usual hypocritical stink!!!

Yes and in theory it is a good idea, there is a lot of duplication of work going on that needs to be addressed but the agencies where not given the opportunity to address Bord Snip. It was just decided to merge certain agencies and abolish others. You can't buy experience and knowledge so its not a simple as sticking two or more similar agencies together to make one super agency. Have we not learned from the HSE?

kippy · 16-09-2009 4:40pm

doncarlos wrote: »

What are your wages? I bet you earn more than the equivalent in the uk or parts of Europe most of them can't afford a foreign holiday home like you . Do you provide a better value for money to your employer than their employer would get?

Eh yes, my pension doesn't pay my rent right now does it?? Take a huge pay cut?? How do you figure that as we have pay freezes at the minute. When the economy recovers it won't be long until I could earn a lot more in the private sector doing an equivalent job. Work harder?? I've worked in both the private and pubic sector and seen usless and lazy feckers in both. "the biggest red fish of them all" is the one bandied about by idiots that nobody in the public service does any work.

1.There isnt a pay freeze in the Public Sector at the moment. Annual increments are still being given out. What has stopped in the Towards 2016 payments.
2. If you believe you would be better off in the private sector based on your needs and current lifestly choices you should engineer your career so that happens.
3. I agree, there are lazy good for nothing idiots in both sectors. Main difference is in the Public sector they tend to get away with it for longer/life, cant be gotten rid of easily and benefit from the same pay rises as another on the same scale as them, without usually justifying it.

I am trying to produce a balanced view here, we need a bit of this and a bit of that to improve the financial situation in this country.

Tipp Man · 16-09-2009 5:25pm

Trishis wrote: »

No bonus?! oh dear! the Public Service never had the luxury of a bonus....did the Private Sector care about that when you were being dished out one? no! why do you think the Public sector should care now...

Look if your salary hasn't been cut and you are all rosy and have a nice secure job, why dont you just worry about your own job and your own life and stop attacking other peoples wages when yours is fine, if someone came along and chopped your salary by a chunk I'm sure you would be singing off a different sheet. Give it a rest. Dont give me all the 'I'm worried about the countries ecomony' crap...lets see what happens when the salary cut comes out of your pocket....or better still how would you like to take a cut twice on one year? Where do I think the money shuold come from? I said already the High paid grade in the Public service.....and what about some private service people? or do you think that all the staff in the civil service should pay up and no-one in the private sector should?

Actually like all private sector workers he is taking a hit to his wages in the form of increased taxes to pay for the excessivly high public sector wage bill.

There are 2 main reasons why this country is going to be borrowing 20bn, or whatever it ends up, this year. Number 1 a hugely over inflated Public Sector wage bill, surely nobody can deny this. Number 2 a hugely generous social welfare system, surely nobody can deny this either.

di2772 · 16-09-2009 7:28pm

kippy wrote: »

When you worked in the private sector did you EVER get an annual increase of 5k or anything close to it for that matter? Did you EVER receive a bonus?

To tell the truth if i didnt get at least a €5k salary increase and a bonus of the same every year, i would be out looking for another job.

Most jobs do pay bonuses in the private sector.
The only ones that dont are unskilled, low skilled.

Simple answer - if you want a bonus, Skill up.

di2772 · 16-09-2009 7:33pm

irish_bob wrote: »

banks , insurance companies etc , sure , small business which employ most people in the private sector dont pay bonuses for the most part

The ones i bolded definitely do pay bonuses. They pay the best bonuses actually.

here ya go,
Look at the benefits on these.

http://irishjobs.ie/ShowResults.aspx?Recruiter=Both&Category=20&Location=&Keywords=bonus&x=27&y=15

Just go to any job site and put in the word bonus or pension.

They are not as rare as you might think.

Some of those there are from my company. If we didnt give a bonus + bens we wouldnt get staff.

amacca · 16-09-2009 7:44pm

di2772 wrote: »

To tell the truth if i didnt get at least a €5k salary increase and a bonus of the same every year, i would be out looking for another job.

Most jobs do pay bonuses in the private sector.
The only ones that dont are unskilled, low skilled.

Simple answer - if you want a bonus, Skill up.

Seriously?

5k increase per yer + 5k bonus per year.

so assuming you work for 40 years, and assuming you start off on 30k per year you expect to be on 430k before you retire. That's some serious upskilling

Now, while I respect ambition and I don't know your personal circumstances (perhaps you personally could earn multiples of the above), don't you think this is a bit unrealistic to apply to a general debate on private and public sector pay. The majority of workers in both sectors will never ever move up through the pay scale like this.

IMO, In its own way the post above is as over the top (in the other direction) as the posters spewing absolute hatred of the public sector in this forum.

I sort of understand if you are just trying to balance out the worst excesses of their posts by acting in as blinkered a fashion as they do but really you are just sinking to their level. In any event, If you give them enough rope they will eventually just hang themselves without the need for you to tarnish yourself by using their tactics.

di2772 · 16-09-2009 8:11pm

amacca wrote: »

Seriously?

5k increase per yer + 5k bonus per year.

so assuming you work for 40 years, and assuming you start off on 30k per year you expect to be on 430k before you retire. That's some serious upskilling

Now, while I respect ambition and I don't know your personal circumstances (perhaps you personally could earn multiples of the above), don't you think this is a bit unrealistic to apply to a general debate on private and public sector pay. The majority of workers in both sectors will never ever move up through the pay scale like this.

IMO, In its own way the post above is as over the top (in the other direction) as the posters spewing absolute hatred of the public sector in this forum.

I sort of understand if you are just trying to balance out the worst excesses of their posts by acting in as blinkered a fashion as they do but really you are just sinking to their level. In any event, If you give them enough rope they will eventually just hang themselves without the need for you to tarnish yourself by using their tactics.

No tactics.
Actually i started my real working career on €19,000, nearly 10 years ago now.
Didnt get as high as a 5k bonus or raise the first few years, but Id be disappointed with only that now.
Thats not unusual among my friends.

Im good at my job. And i make sure that im up do date too.

amacca · 16-09-2009 8:19pm

di2772 wrote: »

No tactics.
Actually i started my real working career on €19,000, nearly 10 years ago now.
Didnt get as high as a 5k bonus or raise the first few years, but Id be disappointed with only that now.
Thats not unusual among my friends.

Im good at my job. And i make sure that im up do date too.

Well, with that sort of write up, Id hire you.....only I suspect you are a bit above my pay level, and it wouldn't do for the boss to be earning less than his employees.

irish_bob · 16-09-2009 10:00pm

Riskymove wrote: »

sorry Bob, are you suggesting that if someone gets a job in the public sector there are so grateful as to vote for whoever happened to be in power at the time for ever?

if so, you are totally wide of the mark

and you made a similar refernce to "fianna fail workers" above; what did you mean by that?

that was a typo and thank you for correcting me , i meant to say fianna fail voters

kippy · 16-09-2009 10:56pm

di2772 wrote: »

The ones i bolded definitely do pay bonuses. They pay the best bonuses actually.

here ya go,
Look at the benefits on these.

http://irishjobs.ie/ShowResults.aspx?Recruiter=Both&Category=20&Location=&Keywords=bonus&x=27&y=15

Just go to any job site and put in the word bonus or pension.

They are not as rare as you might think.

Some of those there are from my company. If we didnt give a bonus + bens we wouldnt get staff.

You my friend appear to be exceptional in many ways.

Look,
the VAST majority of Private sector jobs do not give you a raise of 5 K per year and a bonus of the same. To suggest that they do is complete nonsense.

By the way, you'll probably see your company scale back on those now as well as there are more people out there with the relevant skills looking for work, hence not so difficult to find them anymore.

Dannyboy83 · 16-09-2009 11:39pm

di2772 wrote: »

No tactics.
Actually i started my real working career on €19,000, nearly 10 years ago now.
Didnt get as high as a 5k bonus or raise the first few years, but Id be disappointed with only that now.
Thats not unusual among my friends.

Im good at my job. And i make sure that im up do date too.

Would you mind to share what sector you are working in?
I'd like to get into it myself!!

Honestly, I'm working in the private sector, in IT and €5k increases are the stuff of pure fantasy.:rolleyes:
€5k would be a 10% increase for most of the top earners in IT, and it would be as much as a 25% increase for the bottom earners in IT, such as IT Support Technicians.

Increases and bonuses are calculated on a percentage, decided by the merit awarded in your annual review.
There are very rarely higher than 3%.

So if you take it that the average salary in the IT sector is between €26k and €30k (outside Dublin), then a 3% increase is less than €1000 per annum.

lily lou · 16-09-2009 11:39pm

As a Public Sector worker I understand that I will definitely have to take a pay cut, I'm not happy about it and I will complain (at least it'll get it off my chest) but if it's reasonable I'll accept it, cut a few of the luxuries out (the 1's I haven't already cut thanks to the pension and tax levies) but suggestions of 15% 20% 25% or 50% are just crazy!!! I earn around the national average industrial wage, but it's taken me 10 years to get there so I definitely don't think I'm overpaid (in relation to Irish wages) and there's no way I'd be able to survive if that much was cut from my wages.

Also there might be a lot of complaining going on in the Public Service, but the Private Sector are just as good at complaining, I've heard several of my friends complain about not getting their bonus this year and that they're not having a Christmas Party-eh no-you're not having a free Party but there's nothing to stop you organising and paying for 1 yourself!!!

dresden8 · 17-09-2009 12:47am

irish_bob wrote: »

that was a typo and thank you for correcting me , i meant to say fianna fail voters

Ah the old, the public service ruined the country by putting FF into power.

As jimmmy, your much lamented travelling partner keeps quoting, there are c1.8 million private sector workers to c. 300,000 public sector workers.

The private sector lumbered us with FF. Very few public servants I know vote FF, we've seen the fnckers up close for the last 12 years.

thebman · 17-09-2009 2:32am

di2772 wrote: »

The ones i bolded definitely do pay bonuses. They pay the best bonuses actually.

here ya go,
Look at the benefits on these.

http://irishjobs.ie/ShowResults.aspx?Recruiter=Both&Category=20&Location=&Keywords=bonus&x=27&y=15

Just go to any job site and put in the word bonus or pension.

They are not as rare as you might think.

Some of those there are from my company. If we didnt give a bonus + bens we wouldnt get staff.

Most of those are recruitment agency jobs (aka non-existant).

real results (lol even most of these look bogus):
http://irishjobs.ie/ShowResults.aspx?Recruiter=Company&Category=20&Location=&Keywords=bonus&x=27&y=15

category selected:
Banking, Financial services & Insurance for anyone interested in the area. Good luck finding a job in that area with those search results

irish_bob · 17-09-2009 8:11am

dresden8 wrote: »

Ah the old, the public service ruined the country by putting FF into power.

As jimmmy, your much lamented travelling partner keeps quoting, there are c1.8 million private sector workers to c. 300,000 public sector workers.

The private sector lumbered us with FF. Very few public servants I know vote FF, we've seen the fnckers up close for the last 12 years.

the public sector go to the dance and flirt all night in public with labour but they go home with fianna fail in private

optocynic · 17-09-2009 10:08am

di2772 wrote: »

To tell the truth if i didnt get at least a €5k salary increase and a bonus of the same every year, i would be out looking for another job.

Most jobs do pay bonuses in the private sector.
The only ones that dont are unskilled, low skilled.

Simple answer - if you want a bonus, Skill up.

You don't just skill up (as we all should do).. you need to both skill up AND perform!!!

Under social partnership... you don't have to do either, and STILL got an incease!!!

Riskymove · 17-09-2009 11:06am

irish_bob wrote: »

the public sector go to the dance can flirt all night in public with labour but they go home with fianna fail in private

pure fantasy (but of course bob must actually know how everyone voted due to his omnipotence)

myself and many of my colleagues looked on in astonishment at the last election as we thought we were about to have a change

as mentioned above the Public sector is far outnumbered by the private sector, retired people, students etc

it is the entire electorate's legacy not the public sector'

Very few public servants I know vote FF, we've seen the fnckers up close for the last 12 years.

i agree completely

optocynic · 17-09-2009 11:11am

Riskymove wrote: »

myself and many of my colleagues looked on in astonishment at the last election as we thought we were about to have a change

Then, why are the Public sector so unwilling to accept change?

Let's implement (some of) bord snip..

Let's revisit benchmarking..

Let's increase productivity, so that the service consumer gets value for money...

I don't wnat to see the huge cuts in pay/numbers... just modest and useful cuts.. in best interest of the economy.

Trishis · 17-09-2009 11:15am

optocynic wrote: »

I think you mean 'Private Sector'... right?

Do you think they got that for doing nothing... it is ALL performance based!
No results = no raise + no bonus.

Are you implying Public Service workers don't work hard?

Hootanany · 17-09-2009 11:19am

Let's revisit benchmarking..

Definitely but the unions would be up in arms,but it should work both ways

Wiley1 · 17-09-2009 11:23am

connundrum wrote: »

Surely it'd be better that all public sector workers take a 20% pay cut in order to potentially save 1000 jobs (for example).

Its better to have those 1000 people still employed, paying taxes, rather than going on the dole.

What sort of a pay cut would they have to take to save 17,000 jobs?

Yeah sure, saddle the average grade 3-5 in the public sector, we're the ones who put this country in this state because we go to work every day.

20%, sure why don't you take my 98 fiat and my house that i pay 1600 a month for on a 290k mortgage, (fixed rate)...

Best positive idea I've heard to get the country moving again.

Let the banks rot and Jail the likes of John O'Donaghue and make him pay back all the money he's wasted, check the expense accounts of all polititions same as the UK, when all that money is repaid and the culprits jailed I'll be happy to help the economy by taking a pay cut...

God knows the lack of food in the house will help me keep in shape eh....

Public sector workers willing to take pay cuts?

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