Public sector workers willing to take pay cuts?

optocynic

Trishis wrote: »

Are you implying Public Service workers don't work hard?

YES... a lot of them don't...
Don't be obtuse!
We all know, or are related to public sector workers.
Leaning on the shovel is an artform.

Remove the pay increments.. make it truly performance based.. bellcurve it... and you will see what working hard means.

I don't know you.. and I will give you the benefit of the doubt... maybe you do work hard...

But don't lie to us... there are useless lazy people in your office doing the square root of f*ck all right now... and they have been getting the same annual increase as you... every year!!!

optocynic

Wiley1 wrote: »

Yeah sure, saddle the average grade 3-5 in the public sector, we're the ones who put this country in this state because we go to work every day.

20%, sure why don't you take my 98 fiat and my house that i pay 1600 a month for on a 290k mortgage, (fixed rate)...

Best positive idea I've heard to get the country moving again.

Let the banks rot and Jail the likes of John O'Donaghue and make him pay back all the money he's wasted, check the expense accounts of all polititions same as the UK, when all that money is repaid and the culprits jailed I'll be happy to help the economy by taking a pay cut...

God knows the lack of food in the house will help me keep in shape eh....

a 20% cut is insane...
Possibly for the top dogs.. but the others.. it needs to be weighted.
Let me ask you this though..
Would you rather a cut, or that some of your collegues loose their jobs and your money remains the same?

Wiley1

optocynic wrote: »

YES... a lot of them don't...
Don't be obtuse!
We all know, or are related to public sector workers.
Leaning on the shovel is an artform.

But don't lie to us... there are useless lazy people in your office doing the square root of f*ck all right now... and they have been getting the same annual increase as you... every year!!!

That's a bit of a generalisation, public sector worker don't all work on the roads, C'mon...That way of thinking os obtuse, Don't you see that it's starting to turn into a case of us and them, Public and Private....Divide and conquer, the old English way of ruling the world.

Every Sector has people that do f*ck all. Can't account for lazy people in any way, shape of form....

Wiley1

optocynic wrote: »

a 20% cut is insane...
Possibly for the top dogs.. but the others.. it needs to be weighted.
Let me ask you this though..
Would you rather a cut, or that some of your collegues loose their jobs and your money remains the same?

I have seen 7 friends that were on contracts and worked here for over 3 years simply told "you're finishing next month"

I have taken a pay cut with the Income and pension levies but to answer your question Yes i would take a pay cut to save jobs and i probably will have to.

I don't like this us and them attitude that's building between the sectors, it's unhealty considering we are only "the people".

Look up to see the puppet masters and ask them to take cuts too....

optocynic

Wiley1 wrote: »

That's a bit of a generalisation, public sector worker don't all work on the roads, C'mon...That way of thinking os obtuse, Don't you see that it's starting to turn into a case of us and them, Public and Private....Divide and conquer, the old English way of ruling the world.

Every Sector has people that do f*ck all. Can't account for lazy people in any way, shape of form....

My point exactly... but at least underperformance/nonperformance is punished in the private sector... but Bertie and O'Connor got the lazy space-wasters in the Public sector a cushy number...

No meaningful reviews, no accountability... and annual increases!!
Regardless of job performance!

optocynic

Wiley1 wrote: »

I have seen 7 friends that were on contracts and worked here for over 3 years simply told "you're finishing next month"

I have taken a pay cut with the Income and pension levies but to answer your question Yes i would take a pay cut to save jobs and i probably will have to.

I don't like this us and them attitude that's building between the sectors, it's unhealty considering we are only "the people".

Look up to see the puppet masters and ask them to take cuts too....

We all want them to take cuts too... but the us and them is not being created by us in the Private Sector...
You have O'Connor to thank for that!!..

Wiley1

optocynic wrote: »

My point exactly... but at least underperformance/nonperformance is punished in the private sector... but Bertie and O'Connor got the lazy space-wasters in the Public sector a cushy number...

No meaningful reviews, no accountability... and annual increases!!
Regardless of job performance!

Exactly, I agree, what positive gains/good performance indicators have we had from the above, Bertie flew the nest as soon as he seen the writing on the wall, Lest we forget that the reason he got out was a lot to do with the fact that his finances were being looked into.

Crooked shower of c*nts....

Wiley1

optocynic wrote: »

We all want them to take cuts too... but the us and them is not being created by us in the Private Sector...
You have O'Connor to thank for that!!..

It's a bit from column A and a bit from Column B, Private sector thinks Public sector do nothing and gets paid well and Public sector are thinking why are the private sector not with us on this.

Then the public sector gets the first cuts because we have "safe jobs" and we in turn start begrudging the private sector "because we're not hearing publicily about the cuts made in the private sector".
It's and unhealthy scenario and that's only 1 example IMHO I know it's deeper than that.

optocynic

Wiley1 wrote: »

It's a bit from column A and a bit from Column B, Private sector thinks Public sector do nothing and gets paid well and Public sector are thinking why are the private sector not with us on this.

Then the public sector gets the first cuts because we have "safe jobs" and we in turn start begrudging the private sector "because we're not hearing publicily about the cuts made in the private sector".
It's and unhealthy scenario and that's only 1 example IMHO I know it's deeper than that.

Much deeper than that..

And the opinion that the public sector are well paid and do nothing didn't just appear from thin air!

Hootanany

How much did the public sector wages go up in benchmarking

Wiley1

optocynic wrote: »

Much deeper than that..

And the opinion that the public sector are well paid and do nothing didn't just appear from thin air!

That is true, it's a bit of generalisation against a lot of hard working grass roots people but it is very true of a lot of the higher paid public servants.

Believe me, I E-Mailed Thomas Byrne TD (FF)to complain about the pension levy and basically told him that €500 a month is leaving mine and girlfriends pocket with this and that the house was in danger, I got a nonchalant reply saying don't be stupid, public sector workers will never lose their home...Stop being so heartless to others in worse positions.

Last week I read in the paper that he has claimed the 2nd highest expenses in the county....How are these people not A.Jailed or B.Lynched on the street, WHO is voting for them???

Wiley1

Hootanany wrote: »

How much did the public sector wages go up in benchmarking

What grade? there's grade 3 up to 8 in the Councils and i don't honestly know but one thing i do know is that anything that was added to my wage has been taken away with extra on Levies...

Hootanany

But the pension levi is your money and its going into your own pension . I have to pay in to mine so why not you

optocynic

Wiley1 wrote: »

What grade? there's grade 3 up to 8 in the Councils and i don't honestly know but one thing i do know is that anything that was added to my wage has been taken away with extra on Levies...

You are aware that us in the private sector pay all levies too, except the pension one... but since you have a guaranteed pension... makes it kinda fair that you pay a bit for it!

Riskymove

optocynic wrote: »

Then, why are the Public sector so unwilling to accept change?

Let's implement (some of) bord snip..

Let's revisit benchmarking..

Let's increase productivity, so that the service consumer gets value for money...

I don't wnat to see the huge cuts in pay/numbers... just modest and useful cuts.. in best interest of the economy.

the only thing i disagree with you about there is the benchmarking as I have set out before on this thread

optocynic

Riskymove wrote: »

the only thing i disagree with you about there is the benchmarking as I have set out before on this thread

I still don't think you have given valid reasons for not revisiting benchmarking..

If it was fair then.. it is fair now!!!
Please explain why that is not the case?!

Hootanany

optocynic wrote: »

You are aware that us in the private sector pay all levies too, except the pension one... but since you have a guaranteed pension... makes it kinda fair that you pay a bit for it!

True

Riskymove

optocynic wrote: »

I still don't think you have given valid reasons for not revisiting benchmarking..

If it was fair then.. it is fair now!!!
Please explain why that is not the case?!

I don't think it was fair then....that's why i think it should be consigned to the bin and if there are to be pay cuts that people should have the bencmarking awards removed as the pay cut...as if it never happened

it was a major bertie fix it scam

also i think there are many people calling for it now because they have a pre-conceived notion that it will result in significant cuts for public workers....i would not have the same certainty about that

optocynic

Riskymove wrote: »

I don't think it was fair then....that's why i think it should be consigned to the bin and if there are to be pay cuts that people should have the bencmarking awards removed as the pay cut...as if it never happened

it was a major bertie fix it scam

also i think there are many people calling for it now because they have a pre-conceived notion that it will result in significant cuts for public workers....i would not have the same certainty about that

The Public sector embraced the benchmarking idea then...
Why not now?
To remove the raise now would still keep them in above average payment for their jobs.
Regardless of what the CSO says, pay has dropped in the private sector.
I would just like to see similar in the Public sector...

If lack of productivity could be dealt with also... that would be nice!

Wiley1

optocynic wrote: »

You are aware that us in the private sector pay all levies too, except the pension one... but since you have a guaranteed pension... makes it kinda fair that you pay a bit for it!

I don't diagree with you at all, a fear for the public sector Joe Soap the thoughts that the pension might not even be safe. It's not written in stone and as we have seen with a bang things change all the time depending on the puppeteers.

The information on what cuts the private sector are paying doesn't seem to be common knowledge. At the end of the day the average family has to have 2 working adults these days and we are all in the same boat. if you work you get to burden the load, Private and Public...

We need to wake up as a people and stand together and hopefully when the general election comes FF will be ousted and some thinkers/economists take on and conquer this financial doom we're looking at.

Riskymove

The Public sector embraced the benchmarking idea then...
Why not now?

I am not the entire public service, I have my own view then and now

To remove the raise now would still keep them in above average payment for their jobs.

that's an opinion, which of course you are entitled to

Regardless of what the CSO says, pay has dropped in the private sector.
I would just like to see similar in the Public sector...

oh i am sure it will but not necessarily through benchmarking (which btw would also take a long time and cost a lot of money to oversee and conclude upon...my proposal could be done quickly)

If lack of productivity could be dealt with also... that would be nice!

as I have said before i agree

you cant imagine how much I wish this was being confronted

optocynic

Wiley1 wrote: »

I don't diagree with you at all, a fear for the public sector Joe Soap the thoughts that the pension might not even be safe. It's not written in stone and as we have seen with a bang things change all the time depending on the puppeteers.

The information on what cuts the private sector are paying doesn't seem to be common knowledge. At the end of the day the average family has to have 2 working adults these days and we are all in the same boat. if you work you get to burden the load, Private and Public...

We need to wake up as a people and stand together and hopefully when the general election comes FF will be ousted and some thinkers/economists take on and conquer this financial doom we're looking at.

For the unity to happen... the Public Sector need to shake off the dangerous O'Connor types... using you as a political football!

Now, when we hear Public Sector... we simply think obtuse SIPTU morons.

optocynic

Riskymove wrote: »

oh i am sure it will but not necessarily through benchmarking (which btw would also take a long time and cost a lot of money to oversee and conclude upon...my proposal could be done quickly)

I will throw my support behind your idea on that basis... speed is essential right now!!!

Wiley1

optocynic wrote: »

For the unity to happen... the Public Sector need to shake off the dangerous O'Connor types... using you as a political football!

Now, when we hear Public Sector... we simply think obtuse SIPTU morons.

And what you simply think is called "hitting the nail on the head"

I was with Impact and the phrase as handy as half a scissors comes to mind, they are 100% useless and O'Connor is a big mans man, He can't see the big picture in relation to public finances. Cuts are needed and i think the common perception is that it will happen so accept it. Siptu and Impact and the likes are still trying to keep big wages for outdoor staff that have had them for years withough justification or performance reviews.

optocynic

Wiley1 wrote: »

And what you simply think is called "hitting the nail on the head"

I was with Impact and the phrase as handy as half a scissors comes to mind, they are 100% useless and O'Connor is a big mans man, He can't see the big picture in relation to public finances. Cuts are needed and i think the common perception is that it will happen so accept it. Siptu and Impact and the likes are still trying to keep big wages for outdoor staff that have had them for years withough justification or performance reviews.

See, rational people do exist in the Public sector...
You do appear to be in the minority though buddy...

Can you tell me?.. Do others in your office share the same union views as you?

Wiley1

optocynic wrote: »

See, rational people do exist in the Public sector...
You do appear to be in the minority though buddy...

Can you tell me?.. Do others in your office share the same union views as you?

Oh Definitely, the lads in the office here understand the consequences, and that there has to be cuts, Although since the recent local elections all the councillors have received brand new Dell laptops, a canteen is being created for them (losing office space) so they can have coffee in a nice environment at council meetings, new reception areas in some town councils all amounting to a considerable amount. €€€€€€€€€€

It's discussed in the office and scrutinised but at the end of the day who can you go to with your opposition to all this, you'd end up getting ridiculed from above. Tthere are massive financial wrongs still going on and it's these instances in the public sector that need sorting....

"look after the pennies and the pounds mind themself"

Wiley1

optocynic wrote: »

See, rational people do exist in the Public sector...
You do appear to be in the minority though buddy...

Can you tell me?.. Do others in your office share the same union views as you?

Sorry, to answer your Union views, here's the exapmle, there were around 15 of us in here paying dues to Impact, when we heard that they walked out of talks (like babies) about the pension levy all but 3 of us left the Union immediately. What picture does that paint about confidence in the Union.

Tipp Man

Just so that you can get an idea of how much the public sector pay has increased over the last few year.

In 2000 the average Garda (including overtime) earned 837, in 2008 it was 1,207, a 44% increase, excluding overtime it went from 737 to 1.076 (still 44% increase)
the average secondary teacher earned 685 in 2000, which increased to 1,078 in 2008, a whopping 57% increase.
an administrative civil servant went from 538 in 2000 to 900 in 2008, an incredible 67%, yes 67% increase

Any whats even more amazing is that these increases applied regardless of performance, I mean coming from the private sector i just can't fathom this.
Now for the love of God someone show me any private sector, and i mean any private sector where the wages have increased like this. It just doesn't happen cause its completely unsustainable.

The private sector need to stop for a second and actually think about exactly how much free pay increases the public sector have got and just let it sink in. If people actually thought about it they'd be marching in the streets. Until the public sector is tackled this country is doomed

optocynic

Tipp Man wrote: »

Just so that you can get an idea of how much the public sector pay has increased over the last few year.

In 2000 the average Garda (including overtime) earned 837, in 2008 it was 1,207, a 44% increase, excluding overtime it went from 737 to 1.076 (still 44% increase)
the average secondary teacher earned 685 in 2000, which increased to 1,078 in 2008, a whopping 57% increase.
an administrative civil servant went from 538 in 2000 to 900 in 2008, an incredible 67%, yes 67% increase

Any whats even more amazing is that these increases applied regardless of performance, I mean coming from the private sector i just can't fathom this.
Now for the love of God someone show me any private sector, and i mean any private sector where the wages have increased like this. It just doesn't happen cause its completely unsustainable.

The private sector need to stop for a second and actually think about exactly how much free pay increases the public sector have got and just let it sink in. If people actually thought about it they'd be marching in the streets. Until the public sector is tackled this country is doomed

Interesting.
Where did the numbers come from? Is that weekly salary?

Tipp Man

optocynic wrote: »

Interesting.
Where did the numbers come from? Is that weekly salary?

Weekly salary as per CSO, I really don't think people realise exactly how much wages have increased. This coupled with increased numbers has blown the public servants into a huge white elephant that we need to deal with urgently

http://www.cso.ie/statistics/public_sector_earnings.htm