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Public sector workers willing to take pay cuts?
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Lovestospooge.
An interesting take, but to be honest what about the attack on the private sector thats going on undiscussed ?
Its not actually a debate, its simply a harsh physical reality. My wife took a 30% paycut and will be lucky if she still has a job by christmas.
In the industry I work in, over half my business has stopped coming in because of the decline in investments and mortgages (which means less life insurance).
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Quite simply, if the public service think that a 7.5% levy is them "taking the pain" of the countrys biggest economic problems (arguably in its history), its a case closed situation regarding the ignorance they cling onto.
Not going to quote it all but an absolutely fantastic post0 -
"Who is defending us ? Sure we arent on tv banging on about being "attacked", but that doesnt mean its not happening. We are getting our heads down, working harder for less and just trying to get by, so I am sure you can see why there is resentment towards a section of society that feel we should pay more tax, so they dont really have to be part of this economic disaster our country is in."
I'll take it you're not one for looking at current affairs programmes, as given this quote you obviously didn't look at the last edition of prime time on rte, where the position of the private sector was quite well if in a bluntly ignorant & manner completely ill-informed of the facts, defended.
It is acknowledged that private sector workers are working for less with many being levied at 2%, not 7.5%, & that's the current levy. Whoever told you that all jobs in the public sector are secured is quite frankly an idiot. All essential services are being curtailed by the current economic crisis, not to mention the non-essential ones. The minister for Justice, such as he is, would love nothing more than to reduce the number of gardai in the country which would do nothing to stem the rising (and despite what you're told by the govt, it is rising) crime rate. The minister for Education would like nothing more than to cut every non-statutory teaching programme to the bone, depriving our children of sometimes essential extra-curricular education.
A report today has shown that the'average' public sector worker earns on average before tax between 850-900 euro. As someone who did at one time work in the public sector I can tell you this may be true for those higher up, or those who have been working for numerous years in that position, but this is not the case for many employees who have not been working for at least a decade in their jobs. People I know who were earning 400 euro after tax in the public sector two years ago are no barely bringing home 300 euro per week now after the 7.5% levy. I appreciate why the private sector feels that given the unstable nature of their employment that those in the public sector should pay more in taxes because their jobs are secure as well as their pensions; the truth is that that position is a complete fallacy as public sector workers have & are losing their jobs, and many are leaving them because they've already been levied so much that they can no longer afford to keep up with mortgage repayments either, etc. And it might be noted that many in the private sector can go home at 5pm after an 8 hour shift, while many in the public sector cannot; most of the time the jobs they are doing are essential, difficult & in many instances dangerous, so you might understand why a public sector worker getting paid less than one hundred euro above unemployment assistance may not be inclined to risk their lives while at the same time being castigated in the media (who just to mention all work in 'our' private sector).
Interesting fact, one of the major banks in the last ten days announced a wage 'increase' for it's staff, quite hilarious. The government has in the past year attacked the public sector while pandering to the interests of big business in Ireland for a very simple reason... They don't want you to focus on the fact that they ultimately are the ones responsible for the current nightmare of a situation we find ourselves in now, not the public or private sectors. True, the govt mismanaged the public finances in the public sector, but also through sheer incompetence, ignored the warning signs that were present from as early as 2002 in our economy and instead of addressing the situation then (which would have made the situation not nearly as dire now) they instead kept inflation spiralling out of control while at the same time the banks were offering loans to all but the dead, the same banks who now are being bankrolled by both the public & private sectors' unfortunate employees.
Nobody is seeking to escape playing their part in the necessity that is economic recovery, all that I myself believe is that everyone should pay their fair share towards this economic recovery. Regardless of where a person does or doesn't work, a public sector employee earning 30,000 euro a year being levied at 7.5% (and probably more soon) while a public sector worker earning 80,000 euro being levied at 2% is for anyone using basic common sense, simply not fare. Part of the reason we work in the private sector is that yes the risks are greater & the possibility that our jobs may not be secure is a harsh reality, but we do so because we know the private sector offers a more lucrative paycheck at the end of the day. We cannot expect the public sector to front the bulk of this recovery bill simply based upon the ignorant, ill-informed & childish notion that 'well their jobs are secure' or their 'pensions are secure'; neither is entirely true, & private sector workers number two million in Ireland, it's just simple mathematics.
A fair, balanced & informed approach is all that we should be asking of the government & the public & private sectors in their attitudes towards this issue. The current strategy will only lead to the depletion & reduction in terms of both manpower & quality respectively in some of the toughest jobs in this country. And there will be no use in complaining when crime rates rise ever higher or public transportation grinds to a halt, after all by the attitude we are at present taking, it is us who will have forced a large number of public sector employees to leave their jobs to seek better pay in the private sector; so what if their jobs are secured when they can't keep the electricity on & they get the same amount of money from the dole while not working long hours or risking their lives?
I understand the anger & resentment of many people on boards.ie, & the country, in fact I share in it myself; but I realise that this anger & resentment is simply driven by fear which instead of trying to quell the government have in fact stirred up because they are desperate to ensure that people don't turn the full of their justified resentment upon those who bear the full responsibility for our present situation. Try to remember that the public sector is just that, there to serve the public. Not every public servant works in a warm office with very little work to do as is the image the media have shamelessly pervaded upon our screens & papers the past year, and if you want to call those who risk their lives to save others or risk their lives to prevent crime, or those who work tirelessly in overworked hospitals & other essential positions lazy & greedy, then don't say 'shame on them' for simply wanting, not recognition for their efforts, but simply to be treated as equals who should not have to bear the burden of 7.5% of a levy alone while being portrayed as the reason we're in this mess in the first place; shame on you.
It was the govt's mismanagement that caused this mess, they wasted billions on pointless & unnecessary administration jobs within the public sector & it was they who in twelve long years failed so totally & definitively to streamline & reorganise our public sector which led to those working in less important or even necessary areas earning as much as the person working in the necessary parts of the public sector that we simply cannot do without. Ask yourselves this question: 'Why are government ministers who earn far too much & actually do have a guaranteed pension at the end of their terms (not to mention a pension from their other employment) not taking a 33.3% pay-cut instead of 10%?!' Has anyone even stopped to consider that plainly obvious fact?
Please take a more active interest in politics & try to do more to inform yourselves to the true nature of what is going on in this country at present; simply reading the newspaper or listening to govt ministers harp on about this issue or the economic crisis as a whole will give you very little insight into the problem. And I fear if this issue continues for much longer then the relationship between the public & private sectors could be damaged irreparably for decades to come; not to mention if employees abandon the public sector wholesale due to levying then the strength of our infrastructure will fall with it, & if that falls then so goes with it the private sector as well.0 -
you completely missed my point or simply ignored it.
Throwing out comments about media and being ill educated is irrelevant in relation to my post and simply highlights your desperation to feel justified. My post wasnt about facts or figures, it was about my life and what I see with my own two eyes. Just like a good politician you sidestepped the points I made and argued on one very small point from my post. Think they call that smokescreen or wagging the dog .
Some of your facts are hilarious and as usual are simply one sided rhetoric that doesnt really amount to much other then the same auld crap we hear from the unions daily.
I also love the way you only mention the reports that back up your own one sided views . Nothing on the 2.5billion cost the State pensions are costing or up to 120mil wasted on sick days. Or indeed the 1 billion that was pssed away by public servants in FAS. Would you have the facts on how many of the half a million unemployed were public servants?
One fact you fail to point out is that we are borrowing 400mill+ a week to fund our expenses. We are adjusting the social welfare system and it makes sense to tackle another one of the bigger costs of the state which is the public expenses.
As far as the point on the guarda goes, I have to laugh. I heard their head spokesman come out and say that he has devoted half his life to the force. Which means what exactly? You get paid for it, have a nice pension to look forward to and if you were working half your life then you got compensated with nice overtime. I have never met a poor guarda (certainly not a struggling guarda with less then 2 houses!). That aside, the very remark that these people are something of a beast we should bow and thank the lord we have is akin to Jack Nicholsons character in "A few good men" where he blabbers out that he is the one who protects the very safe ground beneath us. Lets get this straight, they get renumerated well for their job, its not a charity. Because I am not a guard or a nurse doesnt mean people like you can ignore my plight in the interests of a certain vested interest group and by incinuating the importance of these bodies you dismiss everybody else as expendible. If there is no private sector, there is no public service. Plain and simple, again a point ignored with these kind of pathetic arguements.
If anybodys believing what they are hearing in the news its you. You pick certain snippets to throw in there and have absolutely nothing definitive to back up your beliefs except throwout comments.
Do you even know that part of the €400mil a week we are getting off the EU is based on the assumption we will cut our costs ? Or was that not in the Union memo ? You do know that they can cut us off if we dont tackle our expenses problem? oh yeh, lets tax the hell out of everybody else, let me pay so that public servants can maintain their standard of living. Forget how that affects foreign investment, we dont really want to discuss how not bringing our public salaries in line with our income could be detrimental to foreign investment. Forget that raising income tax will encourage certain educated sections of society to move elsewhere (again affecting foreign investment in Ireland).
I believe my original post says all I need to say. If you want to see how educated I am on this topic look up my posts elsewhere. That post was not based on what I was told or heard. Its based on my life, the people I meet, my friends and family, the people I work with. Again a fact that you very conveniently ignored.0 -
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At this stage a reduction in the public sector payroll bill in the region of 5% is an inevitability. A deal has probably already agreed behind the scenes so the unions and the government can save face and pat eachother on the back.
In anticipation of a report from the ESRI on the average length of time that a public sector spends on their tea break or statistics examining the amount of pens which are needlessly pushed around desks in the various Government Departments I look forward to getting this budget over and done with.0 -
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I don't have a union, I'm a lawyer by trade, & the figure is 3,300 from 350,000 not 500,000 as you incorrectly stated.
I personally couldn't care less whether you agree with my point of view & I won't ask you to see how educated I am on this or any other topic as that may take some time to do.
It's nice to see I took some time out of your day though to think about the issue, & as far as 'public salaries being in-line with our income' the majority of young public servants salaries are vastly overshadowed by comparable persons (myself included) in the private sector. Of course we do & are going to reduce public spending, but to maintain that those employees you mentioned are ALL well renumerated for their work is ludicrous if you know any of those public servants; or maybe you only know the ones well into their terms of employment who already have their mortgages repaid perhaps?
And as a postscript, if you truly believed your original post said everything you needed it to, you wouldn't have posted a reply.
But thanks though for reaffirming my belief that the majority of people in this country are as bitter, ignorant, ill-tempered & ill-informed as I've always held it from my personal experience to be. Maybe I'll take my particular private sector skill set to a country where I feel less revulsion for my fellow man. Also thanks for helping me decide boards is a total waste of my time, I'll just talk to a wall from now on... That'll fall down eventually!0 -
loves_to_spooge wrote: »I don't have a union, I'm a lawyer by trade, & the figure is 3,300 from 350,000 not 500,000 as you incorrectly stated.
I personally couldn't care less whether you agree with my point of view & I won't ask you to see how educated I am on this or any other topic as that may take some time to do.
It's nice to see I took some time out of your day though to think about the issue, & as far as 'public salaries being in-line with our income' the majority of young public servants salaries are vastly overshadowed by comparable persons (myself included) in the private sector. Of course we do & are going to reduce public spending, but to maintain that those employees you mentioned are ALL well renumerated for their work is ludicrous if you know any of those public servants; or maybe you only know the ones well into their terms of employment who already have their mortgages repaid perhaps?
And as a postscript, if you truly believed your original post said everything you needed it to, you wouldn't have posted a reply.
But thanks though for reaffirming my belief that the majority of people in this country are as bitter, ignorant, ill-tempered & ill-informed as I've always held it from my personal experience to be. Maybe I'll take my particular private sector skill set to a country where I feel less revulsion for my fellow man. Also thanks for helping me decide boards is a total waste of my time, I'll just talk to a wall from now on... That'll fall down eventually!
Good luck mate . .You wont be missed .
I work in the financial services sector and see most of my points first hand , its part of my job to understand certain sections of public service , particularly in relation to their pension entitlements. Being a lawyer means what exactly? Why did you feel the need to name your profession? . . If theres one think I know from the 5 lawyers that I know personally, its that they only see things one way, either they are right or the other person is wrong so its not really surprising that you dont care what others think, that aside, it doesnt really matter if you care or not, your points are ill thought out rhetoric that you have absolutely 0 experience in personally (if in fact you are what you say you are). You accuse me of being educated by the media yet you yourself could of only gotten your information second hand . .Wow isnt that funny or ignorant, not sure which one its more .
I never said that people are all appropriately paid in the public sector. Please quote me or find the quote where I said that. Again taking the focus off my points with smokescreens (the republican party do that well in the U.S, you might of found your calling there!). I said they are remunerated for their work and they arent charities.
If you are a lawyer and you are in the higher earners of the private sector you are in no position to speak from a position of experience on what its like in the private sector to struggle by or worry about losing your job. What price is there for knowing that your job will be there in the morning? Ah yes, you dont have a price on that as you dont worry about your job! Simple isnt it, the public servants took 7.5% paycut so they are already taking huge hits right ? Wrong, try staying awake at night worrying about your job and your partners. Try not getting paid a wage by your employer one week and wondering if he will pay you next week. I will gladly take a 12.5% paycut to have this psychological blanket to help me sleep.
Taking the pain in a recession/depression is not about whats fair, its about whats sustainable and needed.
In all fairness you are primed for politics. Speaking confidently about things that you personally no nothing about.0 -
P. Breathnach wrote: »
All 1 billion wasted? All of it?
is that all you have . .
Seriously, Public servant defendants are deluded. Just forget everything else I said and focus on one point . .
I loved it on primetime last night when the union rep was running out of things to say and kept saying "is it fair that people on 30k should take paycuts" (like our lawyer friend who seems to be repeating this and accusing others of basing their opinions on what they hear :eek:), ignoring any points made of the harshness of private sector cuts and worries. I was pissed he wasnt pulled up on his point on public service redundancies. 300 a month eh? Call me old fashioned but natural wastage is not redundancy, is people leaving either through retirement or moving on. He didnt want to discuss the old "sick days" fiasco, then again, he was just doing what they all do and ignore the obvious hypocracys in some of their "factual" statements on the poor old hard working public service who are being bombarded with negative press because of information thats not really true (because they ignore it).
Whats fair about paycuts to anybody? Whats fair about job losses to anybody ? Whats fair about any of this ? Nothing . . Its a mute point as we have limited options to deal with our deficit. And it also assumes that all us in the private sector are having a great time with our lack of job security and all that . .
Theres no attack happening to any one service. We are all getting it in the kneck.0 -
I hear the 'popular press' is advertising for paparazzi to get shots of revelling at Public Sector Christmas parties.In anticipation of a report from the ESRI on the average length of time that a public sector spends on their tea break or statistics examining the amount of pens which are needlessly pushed around desks in the various Government Departments I look forward to getting this budget over and done with.0 -
is that all you have . .
Seriously, Public servant defendants are deluded. Just forget everything else I said and focus on one point ...
I'm no kind of defendant, and I am not deluded.
Much of the discussion here is based on anecdote, some of which is not fairly indicative of the facts. And then we have facts being misinterpreted or misrepresented. And to cap it all, the tone of many posts is quite intemperate (including your implying that I am deluded).
That is not the basis on which to conduct a reasoned discussion.
I think we might need a therapy sub-forum where people can vent their spleen before they join in discussions here.0 -
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all that I myself believe is that everyone should pay their fair share towards this economic recovery
there are 310,000 public servants paying income levy and pension levy and are now being targeted for more paycuts in the next budget.
Its worth pointing out that of the 1.9 million private sector workers (pre resession) - now up to 350,000 have lost jobs since resession started, another 500,000 have prob taken paycuts.
So its quite possible that there are up to a million people in ireland who have only taken the small income levy as pain in this resession.
My number may be slightly off but i'd be pretty sure there are more irish citizens who have got off lightly that there are public services workers.0 -
cyclopath2001 wrote: »I hear the 'popular press' is advertising for paparazzi to get shots of revelling at Public Sector Christmas parties.
"PEOPLE SPEND THEIR OWN MONEY OF AN EVENING SHOCK HORROR!!!"0 -
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P. Breathnach wrote: »I'm no kind of defendant, and I am not deluded.
Much of the discussion here is based on anecdote, some of which is not fairly indicative of the facts. And then we have facts being misinterpreted or misrepresented. And to cap it all, the tone of many posts is quite intemperate (including your implying that I am deluded).
That is not the basis on which to conduct a reasoned discussion.
I think we might need a therapy sub-forum where people can vent their spleen before they join in discussions here.
Ah . . Now reason is being called for , I love it . . . I tried debating facts on another thread and as usual, they were ignored with the sweeping statements from the perpetrators, that amounted to little. Of course, they stopped replying when they couldnt refute what I was saying.
I never said my original post on this thread was anything other then anecdotal , yet somebody had to question it with complete drivel and populist waffle.
I find on iboards if you start to try having intelligent debates it turns into slagging. Im not saying I dont lower my levels to that standard, but when in Rome . .
The truth is that while there is petty bickering, the real issues are ignored.
I dont believe that the Public service representitives want constructive debates on this. I would love for there to be a proper open forum debate on tv (as I dont believe the unions have a leg to stand on).
Why do I think this ? Because they base their arguement on the idea that its simply not fair for public service workers to take a paycut. When asked, they wont publically comment on the value of job security and dismiss it, like its a given and then they quote figures that are sidestepping the point.
I have said this before . . Whats fair about our country being in the worst economic crisis , possibly in its history ? Or is that simply a myth ? Is it a myth that our country's success was as much down to positive economic factors (success internationally) as it was to our own ingenuity? Say what you want, but the fate of our business partners has effects on our tax revenue and our job situation.
These are the issues public servant representatives conveniently ignore. If you believe that our economic crisis is being over hyped, then Im afraid you are seriously, madly deluded and uneducated. Im not attacking anybody on this website (as nobody has said it) but if anybody thinks our government are making things up about the gravity of our countries economic problems, they are simply ignorant to the reality of our perilous situation.
MOST public servants are not worried about losing their jobs. This is a sweeping statement, but I have never met one thats worried about losing their jobs. They are mainly worried about taking paycuts. If this is incorrect, then why arent the unions banging their drums about job losses in the sector ? Why are they more concerned with wage cuts ? Again, as somebody who doesnt have job security, I couldnt put a price on knowing for a fact my job will still be there in the morning . . . .
What I find interesting is that the Public service unions used to demand benchmarking so they could share in the success of the country. Now they are demanding that they not be part of the economic problems our country face. Say what you want, a 7.5% paycut (which is tax deductable, conveniently left out of course) in the middle of a countries biggest ever economic problems, is not serious pain. Particularly when the cost of living has already gone down by this much and hundreds of thousands have already lost their jobs in another section of society.
Ive said it on this website. Neither my wife or I ever even earned 30k per year and its thrown around by the unions like its a pitance . Its not, the standard of living on 30k should be comfortable (as I dont struggle on less!). It simply highlights the lack of reality in the world of the public service, if you cant live on 30k per annum, you are living beyond your means, ,you are not on the poverty line.0 -
Say what you want, a 7.5% paycut (which is tax deductable, conveniently left out of course)
So do private sector paycuts, for the quarter of people that have had a cut, not also reduce their taxation?0 -
For as long as we fight amongst ourselves, the politicians and their pimps are winning.
Maybe public sector earnings are above par at the moment. They were agreed in different times. They were not the only contracts agreed then. How many of these other contracts are subject to this rush to reduction?
Are we seeing 5 or 10% cuts in the cost of storing electronic voting machines? What about road building projects agreed at that time? any reductions there? PPP's and office rentals for the decentralisation projects, how many of these are seeing similar reductions in cost?
It appears that the only contracts facing reduction are employment contracts.
If these see the same reductions as employment contracts I will pass the pickets, if not I will carry a plackard.0 -
For as long as we fight amongst ourselves, the politicians and their pimps are winning.
Maybe public sector earnings are above par at the moment. They were agreed in different times. They were not the only contracts agreed then. How many of these other contracts are subject to this rush to reduction?
Are we seeing 5 or 10% cuts in the cost of storing electronic voting machines? What about road building projects agreed at that time? any reductions there? PPP's and office rentals for the decentralisation projects, how many of these are seeing similar reductions in cost?
It appears that the only contracts facing reduction are employment contracts.
If these see the same reductions as employment contracts I will pass the pickets, if not I will carry a plackard.
infrastructural costs are linked to construction costs , any goverment worth their salt should be able to cut a good deal at a competitive price at the moment , i for one do not believe capital spend should be cut as much as current spending0 -
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/1024/1224257395513.html?via=mr
Looks like the threat of strike action is making Cowen think twice about further public sector pay cuts0 -
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/1024/1224257395513.html?via=mr
Looks like the threat of strike action is making Cowen think twice about further public sector pay cuts
Cowen needs to grow a pair.0 -
I'm a teacher and I'm not willing to take any more pay cuts and let me explain why. I have taken 10% pay cut in the past year. my class sizes are bigger now as well. There is no cover supplied for me when I take teams away for extra curricular activities and as result I have to arrange cover for my classes by begging teachers to cover them and then I cover for other teachers when they are away, which is basically overtime and I'm getting nothing for it. So now I am doing more work for even less pay. Like people in the private sector. And due to the cut backs in last years budget I lost my job in the school in my own town and I now travel 100 miles daily on the lovely rural roads in donegal to get to and from work and I will have to pay a carbon tax in the budget. it is impossible to get from my house to my job using public transport. I know there's not much sympathy out there for teachers but I don't care because outside the profession havent got a clue what is involved in the job. get this government out.0
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I'm a teacher and I'm not willing to take any more pay cuts and let me explain why. I have taken 10% pay cut in the past year. my class sizes are bigger now as well. There is no cover supplied for me when I take teams away for extra curricular activities and as result I have to arrange cover for my classes by begging teachers to cover them and then I cover for other teachers when they are away, which is basically overtime and I'm getting nothing for it. So now I am doing more work for even less pay. Like people in the private sector. And due to the cut backs in last years budget I lost my job in the school in my own town and I now travel 100 miles daily on the lovely rural roads in donegal to get to and from work and I will have to pay a carbon tax in the budget. it is impossible to get from my house to my job using public transport. I know there's not much sympathy out there for teachers but I don't care because outside the profession havent got a clue what is involved in the job. get this government out.
To be fair, there are lots of difficult situations, both private and public. And to be fair, the govt doesn't have the money to pay the public sector. We all have to take a (or another!) pay cut.
It is difficult, but we're in a mess.0 -
Talk to your union. They know the score at this point that the 1.3billion in savings are non-negotiable (assuming you want the Government to be able to borrow money to pay for your salary next year). At this point, their job is to identify where those savings can be made so as to minimize the pain or else face another blanket cut like in the April budget.0
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I'm a teacher and I'm not willing to take any more pay cuts and let me explain why. I have taken 10% pay cut in the past year. my class sizes are bigger now as well. There is no cover supplied for me when I take teams away for extra curricular activities and as result I have to arrange cover for my classes by begging teachers to cover them and then I cover for other teachers when they are away, which is basically overtime and I'm getting nothing for it. So now I am doing more work for even less pay. Like people in the private sector. And due to the cut backs in last years budget I lost my job in the school in my own town and I now travel 100 miles daily on the lovely rural roads in donegal to get to and from work and I will have to pay a carbon tax in the budget. it is impossible to get from my house to my job using public transport. I know there's not much sympathy out there for teachers but I don't care because outside the profession havent got a clue what is involved in the job. get this government out.
you can take a small cut under this goverment or a 30% cut when we loose financial independance , up to you and your colleagues
your paid 30% more than in the uk , 55% more than in finland , both those countries are richer than ireland and in the case of finland , the cost of living is higher and they pay higher tax0 -
A friend of mine gets 31 days annual leave in the public sector. Like many of her colleagues , she has had 3 foreign holidays this year.
I know people on the SOCIAL WELFARE (ie, frauding it for everything they can get) who have 3 foreign holidays a year. And I also know people on 21 days holidays in the public sector, and people in the private who get over 30. So what does that prove?0 -
your paid 30% more than in the uk , 55% more than in finland , both those countries are richer than ireland and in the case of finland , the cost of living is higher and they pay higher tax
You would have serious complaints if you lived in Finland.
''Public consumption is 51.7% of GDP compared to 56.6% in Sweden, 46.9% in Germany, 39.3% in Canada, and 33.5% in Ireland.[101] Much of the taxes are spent on public sector employees, many of which are jobs-for-life and amount to 124,000 state employees and 430,000 municipal employees.[68] That is 113 per 1000 residents (over a quarter of workforce) ''
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland#Economy0 -
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/1024/1224257395513.html?via=mr
Looks like the threat of strike action is making Cowen think twice about further public sector pay cuts
To be fair, if Cowen can engineer 1.3bn of savings in the public services via structural changes, that would be much better than a straight pay cut.
But I feel a fudge coming on where they identify a potential 1.3bn of savings rather than an actual 1.3bn.0 -
cyclopath2001 wrote: »I hear the 'popular press' is advertising for paparazzi to get shots of revelling at Public Sector Christmas parties.
You are aware that public servants generally pay for their own christmas nights out, so any revelling done is at their own expense. Though I suppose with the level of vitriol towards public servants, they should probably spend all their spare time self flagellating and eating gruel or something :rolleyes:0 -
krankykitty wrote: »I know people on the SOCIAL WELFARE (ie, frauding it for everything they can get) who have 3 foreign holidays a year. And I also know people on 21 days holidays in the public sector, and people in the private who get over 30. So what does that prove?
That savings need to be made on social welfare as well.0 -
Ok i have a few questions and if anyone can provide some REAL answers that would be great.
1) Re: Pensions: I understand in the private sector when you retire we can take one yrs salary tax free, isn't it correct that the Public sector you can take 1.5-2 times your salary tax free? In this case i can understand they should contribute more towards pesions than the private sector
2) Why should the private sector take the brunt of the redundancies in the country? approx. 200,000 so far in the private sector but none in the Public sector
3) Economists in ireland and abroad (IMF) agree that considering the number of ppl employed in the Public sector, the yearly payrole bill is much too high.
4) As the IMF is helping to provide Ireland, and other European countries to get through this recession, If ireland does not do something serious with the Public sector(ie wage cuts, reduced overtime, redundancies etc) the IMF has the power to come in and take control. This is understanding and realistic, it would be like any bank calling in a examiner or creditor to over see the running of any company that is unable to pay its loans.
I also understand that there are ppl on the lower end of the pay scale but why should the public sector be exempt from wage cuts and redundancies, do you not think it is a fair point to be expecting these considering all the pay rises the PS got during the boom period and now we need to cut back.
I agree the the government made mistakes and the banks created this WORLD recession but we are here and the majority of ppl have been living beyond there means,( flash cars, multiple holidays, large mortgages), cut backs are only expected and REALISTIC, anyone who thinks otherwise is not facing reality.
Can ppl provide real answers to the above to the above 4 questions?0 -
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wicklowmale wrote: »Ok i have a few questions and if anyone can provide some REAL answers that would be great.
1) Re: Pensions: I understand in the private sector when you retire we can take one yrs salary tax free, isn't it correct that the Public sector you can take 1.5-2 times your salary tax free? In this case i can understand they should contribute more towards pesions than the private sector
2) Why should the private sector take the brunt of the redundancies in the country? approx. 200,000 so far in the private sector but none in the Public sector
3) Economists in ireland and abroad (IMF) agree that considering the number of ppl employed in the Public sector, the yearly payrole bill is much too high.
4) As the IMF is helping to provide Ireland, and other European countries to get through this recession, If ireland does not do something serious with the Public sector(ie wage cuts, reduced overtime, redundancies etc) the IMF has the power to come in and take control. This is understanding and realistic, it would be like any bank calling in a examiner or creditor to over see the running of any company that is unable to pay its loans.
I also understand that there are ppl on the lower end of the pay scale but why should the public sector be exempt from wage cuts and redundancies, do you not think it is a fair point to be expecting these considering all the pay rises the PS got during the boom period and now we need to cut back.
I agree the the government made mistakes and the banks created this WORLD recession but we are here and the majority of ppl have been living beyond there means,( flash cars, multiple holidays, large mortgages), cut backs are only expected and REALISTIC, anyone who thinks otherwise is not facing reality.
Can ppl provide real answers to the above to the above 4 questions?
those are genuine questions ( politely asked ) which deserve answers , not cliche driven recycled union rhetoric per usual0
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