Public sector workers willing to take pay cuts?

newname

theese over paid brats however not only believe the rest of us tax payer stiffs

Irish bob your argument is weakening with every post. You are now coming across as angry and spiteful.

jimmmy

irish_bob wrote: »

all you have to tell them is that public sector workers more than anyone benefited from what developers and builders were up to , the builders provided the revenue which allowed this country claim the title of europes highest paid ps , that source of revenue is now gone , hence the problem with the current wage bill of the ps , theese over paid brats however not only believe the rest of us tax payer stiffs should cough up more tax so as to allow ireland to remain at number one in terms of best paid ps , they also believe we should do so without the slightest hint of protest , hence the cries of , why are you demonising us , they would perfer we just thanked them for thier selfless devotion to mother ireland and kindly went on our broke ass way , they genuinly believe they are of a higher calibre , theese union types being the hard leftists that they are , are masters at indoctrination , they have convinced thier flock that they are of a higher moral standard of decency that the dirty capitalist private sector workers and therefore the rules are different for them than the rest of us who live by the free marker , no wonder all ps workers when confronted with the issue of pay and pensions , to the last man and woman like clones come out with the same replies

WE DIDNT CAUSE THIS MESS
THE PRIVATE SECTOR CREAMED IT DURING THE BOOM
THE GOVERMENT IS DIVIDING WORKER AGAINST WORKER
DONT BELIEVE WHAT YOU READ IN THE SINDO

some of us are on to thier weasel words

Excellent post, and the majority of the people in the country should not be afraid to speak out, for fear of being branded angry and spiteful.

Drumpot

jimmmy wrote: »

Excellent post, and the majority of the people in the country should not be afraid to speak out, for fear of being branded angry and spiteful.

+1

I agree . . Therefore I must despise the public servants and must be bitter and spiteful. .:P

irish_bob

newname wrote: »

Irish bob your argument is weakening with every post. You are now coming across as angry and spiteful.

your half right

dearg lady

Yeah, I thought there would be a better calibre of argument in here than in AH, but it's the same, what people on both sides are doing is ruining their argument with petty name calling, ridiculous claims and accusations, and plenty of hearsay.

Drumpot

dearg lady wrote: »

Yeah, I thought there would be a better calibre of argument in here than in AH, but it's the same, what people on both sides are doing is ruining their argument with petty name calling, ridiculous claims and accusations, and plenty of hearsay.

Ok . . Lets keep this simple . .

How do we raise €20billion or reduce our costs by €20billion without touching the public sector?

dearg lady

Drumpot wrote: »

Ok . . Lets keep this simple . .

How do we raise €20billion or reduce our costs by €20billion without touching the public sector?

Luckily I'm not running the country cos I doubt I have the answers! But as I mentioned above, if you read my posts, the public sector needs to be tackled. I never said it doesn't!! wage cuts are necessary, there's also huge savings to be made within most government and semi state departments just by eliminating inefficient practices.

My point is that we all should have to take a hit, and I don't think this 'them or us' attitude does us any good (it's on both sides btw)

Trishis

stereo_steve wrote: »

The Public sector don't pay taxes. They are a loss to the system. Before someone jumps on me, this is not an attack!! Just pointing it out for your calculations.

So its better to have public sector employees out of work from a financial perspective. Ideally we would move excess public sector employees to the private sector assuming there were jobs.

Don't attack you?! Then dont make silly statements. Public servants pay taxes.

No im not wiling to take a further pay cut. Not when the top earners in the public service are still getting pay a bucket load and the civil servants who are on low pay are being hit again, from all angles. When there was a boom the private sector didnt give a crap that we were being paid less than them. We chose these jobs for job security and put up with the low wages. Now that the economy has gone belly up the private sector conveniently focuses on us because we atill have jobs and a wage. Why do you care so much now? we have taken a cut already from out already low wages and we will be paying all the extra taxes that everyone else will be paying...so why would you want to hit our wages even more...do you want all of us to strike? why didnt you all join the civil service years ago if you wanted to make sure you would have a job in crisis times? because the pay is crap thats why!

dvpower

Trishis wrote: »

Don't attack you?! Then dont make silly statements. Public servants pay taxes.

No im not wiling to take a further pay cut. Not when the top earners in the public service are still getting pay a bucket load and the civil servants who are on low pay are being hit again, from all angles. When there was a boom the private sector didnt give a crap that we were being paid less than them. We chose these jobs for job security and put up with the low wages. Now that the economy has gone belly up the private sector conveniently focuses on us because we atill have jobs and a wage. Why do you care so much now? we have taken a cut already from out already low wages and we will be paying all the extra taxes that everyone else will be paying...so why would you want to hit our wages even more...do you want all of us to strike? why didnt you all join the civil service years ago if you wanted to make sure you would have a job in crisis times? because the pay is crap thats why!

What I think you fail to understand is that the government budget decifit is a public sector problem. The government cant afford our public sector as it currently stands.

When similar problems hit the private sector (as they are), people get made redundant and businesses fold.

So the questions is, if youre not willing to take a pay cut, who will pay your salary?

dvpower

Trishis wrote: »

When there was a boom the private sector didnt give a crap that we were being paid less than them.

We did. We funded benchmarking.

Drumpot

dearg lady wrote: »

Luckily I'm not running the country cos I doubt I have the answers! But as I mentioned above, if you read my posts, the public sector needs to be tackled. I never said it doesn't!! wage cuts are necessary, there's also huge savings to be made within most government and semi state departments just by eliminating inefficient practices.

My point is that we all should have to take a hit, and I don't think this 'them or us' attitude does us any good (it's on both sides btw)

I agree 100% . .

I never said that the public service was the only area that should be trimmed. Its just in a crisis like this you tackle your biggest expenses first. Some of the "public service should take pay cuts" arguments come across as bitter because they have been said with anger and with some poor explanations.

People are taking hits all over the country as we speak. Most full time permanent employees of the state has a guaranteed job and are complaining about a paycut and pretty much ignore the fact that the country cannot afford its bills (with pathetic excuses mentioned here) and that private employees or self employed havent even got the comfort of a guaranteed job!.

I believe I represent a majority of the private sector/self employed who didnt simply milk the economy and turn our noses up at public service jobs (ridiculous arguement). Many of us tried to get jobs in the public service and simply couldnt get one (I tried several times when there were hundreds applying for single digit positions early 2000's).


The bottom line is that we cannot afford our bills and need to cut costs . .

Im not a public service basher. Im just pragmatic . .

So I ask all these angry public servants the question again . .

How do we raise €20billion or reduce our costs by €20billion without touching the public sector?

newname

So I ask all these angry public servants the question again . .

How do we raise €20billion or reduce our costs by €20billion without touching the public sector?

I am willing to take a reduction in pay but just not of the magnitude being discussed here.

Trishis

dvpower wrote: »

What I think you fail to understand is that the government budget decifit is a public sector problem. The government cant afford our public sector as it currently stands.

When similar problems hit the private sector (as they are), people get made redundant and businesses fold.

So the questions is, if youre not willing to take a pay cut, who will pay your salary?

the economy went under because of the developers and the bankers. I already took a pay cut. I said that i didnt think the low earners in the civil service should be hit again. Plenty at the top who wouldn't miss 5%.

The question is, when you get sick, who is going to Nurse you? when you need to claim your dole who is going to process it for you? when your bins dont get collected who are you going to complain to?

Theboinkmaster

Drumpot wrote: »

So I ask all these angry public servants the question again . .

How do we raise €20billion or reduce our costs by €20billion without touching the public sector?

I have yet to hear any person who works in the public sector answer this and it really is the bottom line.

We must cut €20bn either with redundancies or wage cuts. All I hear is "i don't deserve it blah blah blah" but that's irrelevant really.

dearg lady

Drumpot wrote: »

People are taking hits all over the country as we speak. Most full time permanent employees of the state has a guaranteed job and are complaining about a paycut and pretty much ignore the fact that the country cannot afford its bills (with pathetic excuses mentioned here) and that private employees or self employed havent even got the comfort of a guaranteed job!

Yes, I'm actually slightly embarassed to say I am public sector(though not in a job for life, on a contract) for fear of being lumped in with public servants on saying 'I won't accept a paycut'....like we have a choice, it has to happen!

I can't speak for all public servants but my my pay cut so far has been around the 6-7% mark, I would gues that bigger cuts have happened in the private sector, so yes I would think it's right and fair to have another cut.

It does seem to be concern that prices aren't comin down quick enough, i line with fallin wages and increased taxes. Or maybe more to the point, prices are falling much more in some areas, and hardly at all in others.

Theboinkmaster

Trishis wrote: »

the economy went under because of the developers and the bankers. I already took a pay cut. I said that i didnt think the low earners in the civil service should be hit again. Plenty at the top who wouldn't miss 5%.

The question is, when you get sick, who is going to Nurse you? when you need to claim your dole who is going to process it for you? when your bins dont get collected who are you going to complain to?

How the economy went under is irrelevant at this stage - I'm not a banker or developer yet have had pay cuts and redundancies.

Pay cuts won't effect numbers will it? There'll still be the same amount of nurses, gardai etc - they'll just be paid less.

5% isn't going to save €20bn - how would YOU cut €20bn Trishis?

Theboinkmaster

dearg lady wrote: »

Yes, I'm actually slightly embarassed to say I am public sector(though not in a job for life, on a contract) for fear of being lumped in with public servants on saying 'I won't accept a paycut'....like we have a choice, it has to happen!

I can't speak for all public servants but my my pay cut so far has been around the 6-7% mark, I would gues that bigger cuts have happened in the private sector, so yes I would think it's right and fair to have another cut.

It does seem to be concern that prices aren't comin down quick enough, i line with fallin wages and increased taxes. Or maybe more to the point, prices are falling much more in some areas, and hardly at all in others.

Thanks for that post - quite refreshing to hear

dearg lady

Trishis wrote: »

the economy went under because of the developers and the bankers. I already took a pay cut. I said that i didnt think the low earners in the civil service should be hit again. Plenty at the top who wouldn't miss 5%.

The question is, when you get sick, who is going to Nurse you? when you need to claim your dole who is going to process it for you? when your bins dont get collected who are you going to complain to?

I think you're missing the point slightly. The money isn;t there. yes it's frustrating, but it simply isn't there. Savings HAVE to be made. People aren't suggesting that we get rid of all public servants. Most people on here(even the angry ones ) know full well there are plenty of necessary services supplied by the public service, but wages will have to fall in line with whats happening in the private sector, and in time the cost of living will fall too. It's not gonna be an easy ride for most of us, but recessions never are.

ronbyrne2005

dearg lady wrote: »

I think you're missing the point slightly. The money isn;t there. yes it's frustrating, but it simply isn't there. Savings HAVE to be made. People aren't suggesting that we get rid of all public servants. Most people on here(even the angry ones ) know full well there are plenty of necessary services supplied by the public service, but wages will have to fall in line with whats happening in the private sector, and in time the cost of living will fall too. It's not gonna be an easy ride for most of us, but recessions never are.

True. Even if all PS workers had to take a further 20% pay cut to balance the books there would be significant advantages or upside to this. Government could promise not to sack any PS on permanent contract(unless for discipline reasons) as the pay cut would save jobs in PS. Also the reduced spending power of PS would feed into cost of living and the real pay cut wouldnt be 20% when reduction in cost of living is factored in. The pay cut could be brought in over a few years to ease the pain and make it easier for public servants to adjust their spending and financial commitments.

ronbyrne2005

If economy returns to 2007 levels of GNP per capita in future then PS could get increase then based on performance and productivity.

dvpower

Trishis wrote: »

the economy went under because of the developers and the bankers.

That's all very interesting but it doesn't change the position we are now in.

Trishis wrote: »

I already took a pay cut. I said that i didnt think the low earners in the civil service should be hit again. Plenty at the top who wouldn't miss 5%.

I think that lower paid workers shouldn't bear the brunt of cuts. Higher paid public servants will need to take deep cuts, but given the state of the public purse, I can't see anyone fully escaping further cuts.

Trishis wrote: »

The question is, when you get sick, who is going to Nurse you?

I expect that there will be fewer nurses on less pay after the cuts.

Trishis wrote: »

when you need to claim your dole who is going to process it for you?

I expect that the waiting list for dole payments may get longer after the cuts.

Trishis wrote: »

when your bins dont get collected who are you going to complain to?

The council. I already pay bin charges specifically for the collection of bins.

Trishis

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

How the economy went under is irrelevant at this stage - I'm not a banker or developer yet have had pay cuts and redundancies.

Pay cuts won't effect numbers will it? There'll still be the same amount of nurses, gardai etc - they'll just be paid less.

5% isn't going to save €20bn - how would YOU cut €20bn Trishis?

The public service has had pay cuts too.

If will if the low paid are hit again and they strike.

Why do you have such a Public v's Private mentality? why dont we all take a 5% pay cute then, Public and private. Do it all evenly across the board. Or do you just want the low paid int he public service to pay out again and get into even more financial trouble.

The nurses and gardai were already on low wages, you expect them to take another pay cut and still work long hours, put themselves at risk and look after you?

jimmmy

Trishis wrote: »

the economy went under because of the developers and the bankers.

You were not ctiticising the developers and bankers during the boom years when they were employing plenty of people and paying lots of money in to the government. The people really responsible for the mess, in my opinion, are the politicians ( who kept extending section 23, section 27 deadlines etc ), who kept interest rates too low + charged dirt on savings so people had little incentive to save, and the top civil servants , such as the head of the central bank, who failed to regulate the banks. Its not as if the politicians + head of the central bank were not paid enough....they were and are paid more than their equivalents in the US, UK, or Germany etc. Leadership should come from the top.

Trishis wrote: »

I already took a pay cut.

If you are a public servant, not in gross pay, not yet. You are only contributing more towards your pension.

Gaspode

damo wrote: »

So to the public sector workers on here: will you accept the pay cuts that are coming in the next budget, or would you consider a pay cut as reason for industrial action?

I've already taken a large paycut thanks very much, with that not so cleverly disguised paycut they called a 'pension levy'.

Trishis

The council. I already pay bin charges specifically for the collection of bins.[/quote]

Yea I pay VHI so that I can get looked after in the hospital if im ill.....if theres a shorage of nurses, which there already is....chances of getting my value for money are very slim.

The council? and they wont be taking a pay cut?...yes they will. which mans people wont be happy.

Im just saying think abot how much you need the public service and think about how if will actually affect your life if you dont have the resources available to you that you are used to. if the low paid get cut again they wont be happy and the resources will be gone...

jimmmy

Trishis wrote: »

The nurses and gardai were already on low wages,

Where else in the whole wide world are they as well paid as here ?

Trishis wrote: »

you expect them to take another pay cut and still work long hours, put themselves at risk and look after you?

Yes. Better still, public sector wages etc should be reduced to the 15 billion it was only a number of years ago ( and the country survived ) instead of the 20 billion it is today...they can decide how that is to be done themselves.

Trishis

jimmmy wrote: »

Where else in the whole wide world are they as well paid as here ?



Yes. Better still, public sector wages etc should be reduced to the 15 billion it was only a number of years ago ( and the country survived ) instead of the 20 billion it is today...they can decide how that is to be done themselves.

Then the cost of living has to go down too.

irish_bob

Trishis wrote: »

the economy went under because of the developers and the bankers. I already took a pay cut. I said that i didnt think the low earners in the civil service should be hit again. Plenty at the top who wouldn't miss 5%.

The question is, when you get sick, who is going to Nurse you? when you need to claim your dole who is going to process it for you? when your bins dont get collected who are you going to complain to?

when people in england get sick , who do you think nurses them , thats right , nurses , they still find the will to show up for work despite being on 30% less than thier irish counterparts , public servants are not like cars , cars stop moving if you dont put enough juice in them , nurses dont forget how to check blood pressure if they earn 10% less

Gaspode

jimmmy wrote: »

If you are a public servant, not in gross pay, not yet. You are only contributing more towards your pension.

The money is gone out of my pocket, I will not see it again. My pension payment when I reach 65 wont increase. That money is going into the exchequer not being invested to safeguard pensions.

Therefore it is a pay cut.

thebman

Also as long as the cost of living is high the people in the private sector that have had wage cuts and the unemployed will be hurting more even though most of those people also did nothing to cause the current crisis.

People have to realise those that are not shopping around are causing the cost of living to remain the same.

Tesco did their price cutting strategy but are putting prices back up and it seems one of the main reasons is nobody extra came to their shop from Dunnes or any other store that were charging higher prices. Same with Aldi, Lidl.

Until Irish people learn to look for cheap goods, the cost of living can't go down.