New commission report on taxation! tax tax tax

Dankoozy

wasper wrote: »

These 'recommendations' are softeners. They are letting us getting used to the idea, before they hit us with taxes.

the government here seems to be very good at that, softening up the people before doing something unpopular. already worked with Nice, now Lisbon and they've been trying to edge water charges back in for the past 7 or 8 years

hellboy99

irish_bob wrote: »

any alternative goverment which includes labour will see a further increase in taxes

So stick with what we got then :rolleyes:

We the people of this country are been made a laughing stock by the current government, anyone else couldn't be much worse at this stage.

We saw VAT go up at a time were it was going down in other countries, as a result it sent thousands across the border and the state lost god knows how much in revenue. Months later the Finance Minister & An Taoiseach say it was a mistake but we're still not going to lower it :rolleyes:. We voted "No" to the Lisbon Treaty and now we have to vote again on it. We are part of the EU, have a single currency and yet we pay VRT..... this country is a farce.

BanyaIreland

Perhaps a **** tax would see Fianna Fail put back in line.

After all that's one tax that would cost them dearly :D:D:D:D

dimma02

Look, this report states that its is to be tax neutral, ie, new taxes but a reduction in other 'bad' taxes, ie, get rid of VRt but up petrol/diesel etc....BUT you know this will not happen, they will introduce new taxes, water,house,carbon but keep old taxes in place...you can see it happening...They will NEVER reduce VRT, income taxes are high and if they can, they will put them up higher,
They only care about themselves, the public sector and keeping there wages and perks,
No word on TD expences being taxed.
No word on reducing numbers or increasing productivity in public sector (ie: car tax office opens at 9.30 and closes at 3!!!! Thats a great number for joe public).

yes we need to change structure of TAX system but the C**ts we have will just add taxes while still having 4 weeks off at xmas, 6 weeks + during the summer and massive massive salaries that are offset in tax..........and what about reduced PRSI for public servants............should thay not pay the same as the rest of us??????:mad:

hellboy99

dimma02 wrote: »

Look, this report states that its is to be tax neutral, ie, new taxes but a reduction in other 'bad' taxes, ie, get rid of VRt but up petrol/diesel etc....

So why not just leave things the way they are if that's the case.

dimma02 wrote: »

BUT you know this will not happen, they will introduce new taxes, water,house,carbon but keep old taxes in place...you can see it happening...They will NEVER reduce VRT, income taxes are high and if they can, they will put them up higher,
They only care about themselves, the public sector and keeping there wages and perks

Too right that's what will happen, they must think the public are stupid.


I wonder how much this report cost :rolleyes:

Diarmuid

hellboy99 wrote: »

So why not just leave things the way they are if that's the case.

Because those taxes are too irregular. Loads of revenue when tons of transactions are taking place, then when the economy tightens up no revenue. ie look at stamp duties/VRT/VAT.

Diarmuid

jimmmy wrote: »

In some cases it was their pension. A pension now in " negative equity ".

How can your home be your pension? It doesn't pay a stream of income once you hit 60.

Dr Kamikazi

What's going to happen now is that a lot of people will cut their expenditure to:
1: Food
2: Heating
And some may well have to give up one of those.
How will this help the economy?
I for one am going to move to a proper country, where your tax euro actually gets you some decent healthcare and infrastructure.
If you're gonna get f*cked, you might as well get some benefit from it.

P. Breathnach

Diarmuid wrote: »

How can your home be your pension? It doesn't pay a stream of income once you hit 60.

In a sense, it does. If I didn't own my home, then I would have to pay rent. So it can be argued, in my opinion very reasonably, that the value to me of owning a home is the amount it would otherwise cost me to rent a place to live.

[Yes, I have hit 60. My answer could be fine-tuned because I have only a half-interest in the house -- a point I mention in case Herself ever decides to look in on this forum.]

junkyard

It looks as if we're going to be the new eastern block country in Europe pretty soon, the Poles will be looking at us like we looked at them a couple of years ago. We're well and truly f**ked thanks mainly to Fianna Fail coruption over the years. I'd bet any money that if Fianna Gael, Labour or any other party got into power in the morning, within a week they'd be telling us that we're ten times worse off than Fianna Fail admitted to. We're doomed!!!!!:eek:

AlekSmart

I for one am going to move to a proper country, where your tax euro actually gets you some decent healthcare and infrastructure.

Oddly enough,Dr Kamikazi I fully concur with your assessment.

Unfortunately i`m just too old to be considered of worth to any proper European County right now.

I am however attempting to focus my teenage daughter on accquiring a good speaking level in another language.....Any language will do as withdoubt doubt the carcass of this Irish Republic will within two years be the shambling,rambling drunk of Europe.

Anybody in this country who is in a position to do so should GO NOW....Immediately if not sooner,if only to hasten the process of revolution which it now appears is the only method of securing the freedom which our 1916 leaders supposedly held dear.

Fianna Fáil,its members and those who continually voted for its most deviant and corrupt candidates throughout the country have reduced us to this level of penury and they appear emboldened to finish the job in a grand manner too !!!

Dr Kamikazi

I would say Vote Yes to Lisbon.
Anything that would take even a smidgen of power away from the b*stards that run this country can only be a good thing.
Sure, you'd be turning over power from one shower of corrupt criminals to the next, but unlike FF European countries in general have managed to provide some decent infrastructure and services.

AlekSmart

I would say Vote Yes to Lisbon.
Anything that would take even a smidgen of power away from the b*stards that run this country can only be a good thing.
Sure, you'd be turning over power from one shower of corrupt criminals to the next, but unlike FF European countries in general have managed to provide some decent infrastructure and services.

As a NO supporter for sometime now I heartily agree with thje good Dr K.

The notion of the traditional Irish political elite having even 0.85% of a say frightens the shyte outa me and the only problem I have with us "losing" a Commissioner is what plum role we will find for a professional 3 card trick merchant such as C. McCreevy when he retruns to grace our political landscape.

Spike Island and the Curragh might merit an airing in expectation !!!

Mad_Max

Diarmuid wrote: »

Really? Are you sure of that figure?
Here is a simple spreadsheet with pretty optimistic figures (1.4l petrol, 30km per day, practically no service) and I still get to €2000. Are you sure you are not ignoring big ticket car services? I've been tracking every penny I spend for the past few years and the car cost comes out at well over €2500 pa

Yeah well pretty much, my petrol costs over last year were shade over 1k (very light on the mileage), 350 insurance and 350 tax. Aul man does the servicing on the car so saves a few pennies for the tax man to collect later

dimma02 wrote: »

get rid of VRt but up petrol/diesel etc.

That'll be cack for someone who just recently paid VRT.. Thanks for that but we've now moved that onto the diesel you need.

Just seems like the day to day essentials keep going up while wages go down.

Dr Kamikazi

Mad_Max wrote: »

That'll be cack for someone who just recently paid VRT.. Thanks for that but we've now moved that onto the diesel you need.

Just seems like the day to day essentials keep going up while wages go down.

And THAT'S how they do it.
You bought a house, paid stamp duty, now property tax
Bought a car, paid VRT, now you get loaded with carbon tax.
Everyone expected there would be a few % more tax to be paid, no great surprise there, but that was all the country could bear.
If all this will be implemented it will cost the average family THOUSANDS a year, not to mention child benefit being slashed and any support towards creche fees (robbin' bastids) gone.
This will drive thousands of family into ruin and cause them to loose their house.
Then they join the housing list.
Whichever way you look at it, this is damaging the country and driving in deeper into recession.
And the whole "Ireland is different" excuse doesn't wash with me, it's only different because it's ruled by incompetent cronies!

hellboy99

Diarmuid wrote: »

Because those taxes are too irregular. Loads of revenue when tons of transactions are taking place, then when the economy tightens up no revenue. ie look at stamp duties/VRT/VAT.

Now that the "s**t has hit the fan" and people have either no money or have coped on, the high taxes which were fine durning the boom years when people had money then (or crazy credit) and it was ok for us to be robbed blind, these taxes are now too irregular :rolleyes:, this is all due too bad management of the country, greed and corruption.

In relation to stamp duties, VRT and VAT, revenue has falling yes but not all mainly due to people having a lack of money, it's due to stupid people running this country.
Houses for a long time were ridiculously overpriced. VRT is a joke and that just drives people north of the border as it works out a lot cheaper or they now just don't get a new car. VAT they put up in the last budget and that drove thousands up north every week. Less revenue these days from cigarretes and drink because the prices have gone up and as a result less people now go out. One thing this government has been good at and still is, is to decrease revenue.

Did this government really think the boom years would last forever ? certainly looks that way and now they don't know what to do :rolleyes:.
I can tell you this though, by introducing new taxes to try and get our way out of this recession will create more problems than good.

junkyard

This is pretty scary stuff tbh, it seems that the government has effectively broken every single business venture that was with increased taxes, licences and fines. Fishing, pubs, building, motor trade, farming, taxis and retail are all dead now thanks to high taxes and overheads. They've effectively killed off any chance that was there to generate revenue from any of these businesses so the result is 400 million borrowed each week to pay the dole etc. this isn't going to last for much longer and when there's no more money to pay out I think it's everyone for themselves, this place will end up a hollowed shell or what it once was.

dimma02

So what as a country can we do to get rid of these losers?
How come in the UK when their was the expense scandal, MP's resigned, there, we have bigger expense corruption in all newspapers but not a buzz on the TV news, no accountabaility or no reports, seems alot of media won't touch this, How come they still have the multiple pensions etc, alot of stuff in last budget in regards themselves has not being done.

We should not pay any more tax, infact it should be reduced, VAT, Income tax, VRT and people will spend and the economy will grow,I will go up north to buy electrical and clothes rather than pay 22% VAT...simple!!!
We have to vote with our feet here, Shop around as they told us,My next door neighbour is a garda and is laughing at me with all his overtime and he says he has nothing to do but as long as its there he will do it, cleaning up he says............It makes my blood boil how we the taxpayer are being robbed and taken for a fool...........................:mad:

hellboy99

The government got us into this and now they want us, the people for many they have now made unemployed, broke and worse off to get them out of it, they have some cheek :mad:

Why the hell don't they take a massive wage cut and futher cuts in expenditures and stop wasting money, they should start looking at their own doorsteps first before going to others to bail them out.

snaps

dimma02 wrote: »

So what as a country can we do to get rid of these losers?

Thats just it, we are doing nothing. We just come on these boards moaning and groaning and thats about it. The government must be shaking in their boots!

My wages have gone down, outgoings gone up, I still have a job but hate it, but i have to work to survive.

I never thought that a property tax will decrease the value even more of your house.

Water tax? How about if you dont have a proper water system and sewage system? The water tax is something i am really against. The quality of the water here is awful and the sewage system is just as bad.

ednwireland

most interesting graph ive seen in a while

thanks to diarmuid for the link

and course its tax tax tax its a commission fro taxation report

the only problem is all the parties will see it as a blueprint for more taxation not a way of rebalancing the system, and they need to get their own house in order first and get control of public sector spending

Diarmuid

snaps wrote: »

Water tax? How about if you dont have a proper water system and sewage system? The water tax is something i am really against. The quality of the water here is awful and the sewage system is just as bad.

It's a water rate. You are already paying for the water system and if you are not wasting it, you are subsidising those who do. I don't see why there is opposition to water charges. (naturally I would want to see a reduction in someother tax to offset this)

Mad_Max

That graph does't show all the tax that is taken in petrol/alcohol etc etc.

A gallon of petrol in america is like $1.50 a gallon thats touch under 4 litres so roughly 4.50-5euro a gallon here. Same on alcohol. Surely stuff like that would move Ireland higher up that "misery" scale.

I certainly feel more worse than 94.8 "misery-units"

Galwaybuzz

How can they possibly think that famalies will be able to apy out anymore than they already are, i have no family and i am already struggling!!!! This country is a joke!!!!

dutchy21

snaps wrote: »

Thats just it, we are doing nothing. We just come on these boards moaning and groaning and thats about it. The government must be shaking in their boots!

My wages have gone down, outgoings gone up, I still have a job but hate it, but i have to work to survive.

I never thought that a property tax will decrease the value even more of your house.

Water tax? How about if you dont have a proper water system and sewage system? The water tax is something i am really against. The quality of the water here is awful and the sewage system is just as bad.

I'm Irish and now live in the UK, have lived here for 6 years. I bought a house in Ireland as an "investment" in 2007 and it's now worth alot less than what I paid for it! I don't own another home and pay rent in the UK like anyone else. I also had to pay €10000 Stamp Duty at the time. These Tax suggestions are the icing on the cake if you ask me!!

I manage to get back to Ireland every 6 weeks or so and can't believe how much people are moaning and doing nothing about it!

Everytime I go back the moaning gets worse and worse but all I hear is people on Joe Duffy and Pat Kenny moaning and not taking matters into their own hands. In the UK, there isn't really that much people power but when things go wrong like fuel increases, MP expense scandals, the people call for something to be done about it! And it gets done! Whether it's the media have more influence or not I don't know!

My qestion is why does this not happen in Ireland?? More and more people are emigrating/unemployed every week and there's fewer people able to afford to live not to mind paying more in taxes!

I understand that the country has to get the money back somehow for the debts that this ridiculous government has brought us into but are we just going to moan and moan and take it?? And then when they do implement these tax changes......moan some more, and not be proactive??!

I have no political background so wouldn't know where to start but we need someone to stand up to this current government and ask the people what they want!!

We are being screwed over as a nation and we need to do something about it........NOW!!!

Dankoozy

dutchy21 wrote: »

I manage to get back to Ireland every 6 weeks or so and can't believe how much people are moaning and doing nothing about it

it's almost like the new national sport now...

spank_inferno

I've said this before and I'll say it again.

The working people cant rally because there is no one to lead us!!

Where is the union outrage?
Where is the union organised marches against the government?
Where are the Opposition marches against the government?

Yes we can moan here, because where else can we!

All the social partners have been for years now suckling at the same government tit, and its left the ordinary people rudderless.

So moan on folks (much good it will do )

dvpower

spank_inferno wrote: »

Where is the union outrage?

Aren't the unions generally in favour of higher taxes?

thebman

ednwireland wrote: »

most interesting graph ive seen in a while

thanks to diarmuid for the link

and course its tax tax tax its a commission fro taxation report

the only problem is all the parties will see it as a blueprint for more taxation not a way of rebalancing the system, and they need to get their own house in order first and get control of public sector spending

If you examine the graph you'll see we aren't that much lower on personal tax, we are at the high end of the vat tax range and the taxes we are lowest on are corporate and employer taxations which we can't raise because we are trying to kill the few businesses left here and want to attract FDI.

The only one we are just low on is social security payment from looking at that and try increasing that and see what people say (advance preview: bloody dole scroungers the lot of them).

Diarmuid

spank_inferno wrote: »

Where is the union outrage?

:pac: yea they have really covered themselves in glory over the past 10 years, they were feeding at the trough along with FF.