New commission report on taxation! tax tax tax

Wiley1

Dr Kamikazi wrote: »

Since my thread was closed, here it is:

When I bought my house, I paid €20k stamp duty.
Apparently that wasn't good enough, so now those b*stards are planning to take another Grand a year of me.
No f*cking way.
When that letter arrives I WILL wipe my ar*e with it, stuff it back into the envelope and send it back, addressed to:

C*nt
Dublin

Bang, straight onto Brian Cowen's desk.
With that letter will be a declaration that I will rather rot in prison than give those fat f*cks one cent.
And I can only encourage everyone to do the same!

I am with you Dr, sign me up for whatever you're planing.
I bought a house 6 years ago on my own and struggled my a** off to get the money (before 100% mortgages came in) paid my 10k stamp duty, then met me girlfriend, she wanted to buy closer to work, I tried to sell the first place but no joy, (introduce 100% mortgage) and then we paid another 12K stamp duty on the new(ish) house, I am broke as a joke and i have 2 houses, means nothing. I work and pay my a** off and see blacks and foreigners milking in the country and us paying for it, Yes it's a radical point of view but where is the justice for working, tax paying home owners and familes, you're all here trying to justify taxation and decisions the government are planning when we should NOT pay a thing and rot in Jail like this post says, are they going to Jail us all?

When Brian Cowan show's his face on the streets after these "ideas" become a reality we should take a leaf out of the Brits book and happy slap the fat sh*te.

pat kenny

Wiley1 wrote: »

I work and pay my a** off and see blacks and foreigners milking in the country and us paying for it,

Hmmm so you seem to have a problem with the following groups of people:

1. Irish citizens who happen to be black.
2. Foreigners (Black or white)

But in a strange way you seem to be categorising them into a listed order.
Hitler kinda had a list like that it looked something like the following.

1.Jews
2.Gypsy's
3.Slavs
4.Communists

He told the German people that all their problems would go away if they got rid of these groups.



You purchased not 1 but 2 houses during the boom years and now you want someone to point the finger of blame at, and instead of pointing the finger at yourself you point it at the "blacks and Foreigners"

If you want someone to blame look in the damn mirror your as guilty as anyone else.

Wiley1

spank_inferno wrote: »

I've said this before and I'll say it again.

The working people cant rally because there is no one to lead us!!

Where is the union outrage?
Where is the union organised marches against the government?
Where are the Opposition marches against the government?

Yes we can moan here, because where else can we!

All the social partners have been for years now suckling at the same government tit, and its left the ordinary people rudderless.

So moan on folks (much good it will do )

There was more that 80,000 people including myself and girlfriend that marched through Dublin streets against the introduction of the pension levy, where did that get us, absolutely nowhere. (oh we have an income levy now, we were rewarded with that too)

What we need in the country is a Coup d'eta and to drive these robbing, theiving, lying cheats out of government. I work in a public office and deal with councillors and elected members and i know how corrupt and scheming some of them are, I totally accept that this isn't all councillors or elected members.

All this talk of labour/Fine Gael, what's wrong with Sinn Fein, the original Irish political party, they brought peace to the North, they can do anything with public backing and good polititions, and beleive me when i say the local Sinn Fein elected members in my area are all for the people and Ireland for the Irish...

Wiley1

pat kenny wrote: »

Hmmm so you seem to have a problem with the following groups of people:

1. Irish citizens who happen to be black.
2. Foreigners (Black or white)

But in a strange way you seem to be categorising them into a listed order.
Hitler kinda had a list like that it looked something like the following.

1.Jews
2.Gypsy's
3.Slavs
4.Communists

He told the German people that all their problems would go away if they got rid of these groups.



You purchased not 1 but 2 houses during the boom years and now you want someone to point the finger of blame at, and instead of pointing the finger at yourself you point it at the "blacks and Foreigners"

If you want someone to blame look in the damn mirror your as guilty as anyone else.

I knew there'd be a do-gooder in the midst, I'm not racist and i treat everyone equally but when you hear stories of (for PC reasons) Non-nationals getting free child buggies from the welfare and selling them on e-bay and other Non-nationals organised in allsorts then let me decide for myself, you don't know me, I am proud to be Irish and i'm very disheartened that we have lost a massive amount of culture over the last 20-50 years.

It's lads like you that think because I have a slightly different opinion that everyone with a potentially confrontational view should say nothing, well White hetrosexuals are the most ratially discriminated race on the planet so get off the high horse and allow other people opinions to flow, otherwise join a do-gooder commune (leave us to think for ourselves)

pat kenny

Jesus, Wiley1 where do I start with you.

One of the reasons we are so far in debt is the huge over expenditure on public services IE.YOU.

This is the reason we need to raise taxes, to pay for your damn wages!!

The Pension levy that you went out on the street and protested about is to cover the cost of your exorbitant pensions.


So I am going to clarify a few facts I have learned about you....

1. You are are part of the public service
2. Your a racist
3. You purchased not 1 but 2 f**king houses during the boom
4. You do not seem to grasp that you are a huge part of the problem with the country

pat kenny

Well you are racist, you felt the need to specify BLACKS and Foreigners.

Rather that just saying foreigners which would have covered foreign people of all colours.

I don't think I could point out a more obvious racist comment , you seem to classify blacks first on the list and then all other foreigners as second. As if white foreigners are a slight step up from black foreigners.

spank_inferno

back on topic.....

It maybe a question for the economic forum.
Isnt there a principle that if you raise taxes, the revenue increase drops & trails off after a short amount of time??

I think this is because people adjust to the drop in net income with less expenditure which hurts tax receipts in other areas.

Anyone know what this principle is called or has info on it?

pat kenny

Just to clarify, I am not advocating raising taxes.
I was just articulating to wiley that his pay has to come from somewhere.

Of all people, he should be advocating taxes hikes because it means that the cost of his wages is spread across all tax payers.


I would be an advocate of cutting public sector wages across the board.

ie. Cutting Wileys wages significantly

How do you propose we pay for your higher than private sector wages wiley?

Wiley1

pat kenny wrote: »

Jesus, Wiley1 where do I start with you.

One of the reasons we are so far in debt is the huge over expenditure on public services IE.YOU.

This is the reason we need to raise taxes, to pay for your damn wages!!

The Pension levy that you went out on the street and protested about is to cover the cost of your exorbitant pensions.


So I am going to clarify a few facts I have learned about you....

1. You are are part of the public service
2. Your a racist
3. You purchased not 1 but 2 f**king houses during the boom
4. You do not seem to grasp that you are a huge part of the problem with the country

Ok, here's the way it is my end Pat!

Public services: Roads, Social housing, Water Infrastructure, community and economic development, social integration programs, Would you rather we got rid of these to cut the public sector bill, You're being silly now.

I pay PRSI, PAYE, Widows and Orphans, pension levies, and income levies from my wages, so don't gimme that sh*t that you pay for my wages or pensions, get some facts and type up a decent post.

As a Civil servant do i control the public sector budgets, Errr Wrong...

My wages are less than someone doing the same job in the private sector, I feel good old begrudgery creeping in there because i'm in a so called "safe" job. I have seen over 150 people's contracts ended over the last year or so and massive public spending cuts. Now tell me my job is safe.

I bought a house because i was advised by everyone that it was the right thing to do, I'm not complaining about paying the mortgage, It's the tax on properies that have already seen my stamp duty Euro that i'm not happy with.

Ok I must be a racist, considering i lived with "coloured" south Africans and worked and grew up with other Non-nationals, like i said you don't know me but i know you,

What i have learned about you is that you're the antaganist that typifies the sit on your arse and moan syndrome that's spreading. No positive input, just a goody goody attitude that sickens most of the rest of us.

What I would like to see is the government looking after the Irish, working class, families, the grass roots of the country that have always supported the powers that be rather than handing out money had over fist to non-nationals, eg Irish tax payers childrens allowance leaving the country because the claimant family have moved back to where ever the originated, Use Savvy and look after our own first and in turn faith will return in the government.

Stop trying to wind me up with your sh*te talk. I pay my dues and am proud of that fact.

Anyone who pays their way or tries to contribute to the country is more than welcome and is of benefit to us all.

Wiley1

spank_inferno wrote: »

back on topic.....

It maybe a question for the economic forum.
Isnt there a principle that if you raise taxes, the revenue increase drops & trails off after a short amount of time??

I think this is because people adjust to the drop in net income with less expenditure which hurts tax receipts in other areas.

Anyone know what this principle is called or has info on it?

Sorry spank, rant over...:)

pat kenny

Wiley1 wrote: »

My wages are less than someone doing the same job in the private sector, I feel good old begrudgery creeping in there because i'm in a so called "safe" job.

http://www.ronanlyons.com/2009/02/04/public-sector-pay-in-ireland-the-e50000-question-its-not-that-difficult/

Take a look at this Graph it makes interesting reading, public sector wages are on average 30% higher than the private sector in Ireland.

Wiley1 wrote: »

Public services: Roads, Social housing, Water Infrastructure, community and economic development, social integration programs, Would you rather we got rid of these to cut the public sector bill, You're being silly now.

I dont want them to cut these , just the public sector wage bill, it accounts for about 20billion of the countries spending of 46billion per year.

I am not trying to antagonise you, you are in a difficult position I see that. But the public sector wage bill has to be paid for somehow. The things you have suggested might save some money but not enough to cover our expenditure, and most of that expenditure is the public sector wage bill.

If there are cuts, it should be from the top down, IE. highest public sector earners taking the biggest cuts and the smallest cuts to the lowest earners who can least afford it.


To be honest the people working in the public sector should be championing taxes increases, it spreads the wage burden across everyone. The only real alternative to the government is more job cuts or wage cuts.

I don't say these things lightly, I have immediate family members who work in the public sector with mortgages to pay.

Wiley1 wrote: »

Ok I must be a racist, considering i lived with "coloured" south Africans and worked and grew up with other Non-nationals, like i said you don't know me but i know you,

I redact my comment about you being racist, I made the judgement based on a comment you made in a previous post that seemed blatantly racist. It was an inference based on this that may have been a poor indicator of your true character.

Wiley1

pat kenny wrote: »

http://www.ronanlyons.com/2009/02/04/public-sector-pay-in-ireland-the-e50000-question-its-not-that-difficult/

Take a look at this Graph it makes interesting reading, public sector wages are on average 30% higher than the private sector in Ireland.




I dont want them to cut these , just the public sector wage bill, it accounts for about 20billion of the countries spending of 46billion per year.

I am not trying to antagonise you, you are in a difficult position I see that. But the public sector wage bill has to be paid for somehow. The things you have suggested might save some money but not enough to cover our expenditure, and most of that expenditure is the public sector wage bill.

If there are cuts, it should be from the top down, IE. highest public sector earners taking the biggest cuts and the smallest cuts to the lowest earners who can least afford it.


To be honest the people working in the public sector should be championing taxes increases, it spreads the wage burden across everyone. The only real alternative to the government is more job cuts or wage cuts.

I don't say these things lightly, I have immediate family members who work in the public sector with mortgages to pay.



I redact my comment about you being racist, I made the judgement based on a comment you made in a previous post that seemed blatantly racist. It was an inference based on this that may have been a poor indicator of your true character.

no worries, I was getting all worked up,

You are correct about public sector spending, I'm 10 years in this job and i can safely say that there has been millions wasted in the council that i work in and i have seen figures to suggest that we are not the worst offenders by a long shot.

When you see all valuable companies pulling out and stating the cost of doing business in Ireland as the reason for leaving i'm thinking why the hell can't we reduce costs to save these jobs, there was an earlier post about the price of fuel in the states compared to Ireland and i think this hasto be one of the reasons along with many more for companies packing up. Basic lack infrastructure means everything needs to be transported on the roads, now they're talking about a carbon tax, HOW will that encourage trade.

If taxing all the everyday things isn't going to get us up and competitive again then what will?

Would love to know this....

Wiley1

pat kenny wrote: »

http://www.ronanlyons.com/2009/02/04/public-sector-pay-in-ireland-the-e50000-question-its-not-that-difficult/

Take a look at this Graph it makes interesting reading, public sector wages are on average 30% higher than the private sector in Ireland.

I redact my comment about you being racist, I made the judgement based on a comment you made in a previous post that seemed blatantly racist. It was an inference based on this that may have been a poor indicator of your true character.

Interesting graph alright, looks bad for public sector staff, I totally agree with your suggestion that higher public sectors earners should take more of the burden, some of the allowances and OT that is available to some staff are ridiculous, i heard of drivers that earned more in the year than the county manager and that a seperate bank account had to be set up for these driver so that the wives wouldn't know what was being earned.

Madness!!!

Main problem is too many Chiefs and not enough Indians, jobs for the boys and back scratching costing all of us tax payers....

I didn't mean to get up tight with you Pat, I'll choose my words more wisely, you're obviously a forward thinker.....

pat kenny

From my personal experience (in IT sector) what seems to be driving away investment is.

1.High wages in the Irish private sector (They are falling but still above European norms)
2.Cost of electricity (Bulk electricity costs in Ireland are very high)
3.Bandwidth costs
4. High commercial rents (These are falling as well)

thebman

Communications infrastructure is a major issue. IO just released some info showing 90% of new FDI is around the MAN projects that were setup which were fibre rings.

Even the Dublin city centre broadband is crap.

freewheeler

Our moronic government are STILL trying to tax us out of this recession this despite the fact that it is proven not to work..their total lack of imagination is frankly staggering but then again have they ever shown us anything else except rank stupidity and contempt for taxpayers? To be honest i have had enough of this banana republic and the clowns that govern..but what disheartens me most are the fools who still support this shower,those who cant see or dont care the damage they have done to our country-WHY DO WE JUST ACCEPT THIS? :mad:

Wiley1

freewheeler wrote: »

Our moronic government are STILL trying to tax us out of this recession this despite the fact that it is proven not to work..their total lack of imagination is frankly staggering but then again have they ever shown us anything else except rank stupidity and contempt for taxpayers? To be honest i have had enough of this banana republic and the clowns that govern..but what disheartens me most are the fools who still support this shower,those who cant see or dont care the damage they have done to our country-WHY DO WE JUST ACCEPT THIS? :mad:

This is an E-Mail i recieved today, think it would work?

Dear Mr. Cowen
>
> Please find below my suggestion for fixing Ireland's economy.
>
> Instead of giving Seven Billion Euro to Anglo Irish Bank who will
> squander the money on lavish parties and unearned bonuses, use the
> following plan.
>
> You can call it the Republican Retirement Plan:
>
> There are about 1 million people over 50 in the work force. Pay them 7
> million Euro apiece severance for early retirement with the following
> stipulations:
>
> 1) They MUST retire. One million job openings - Unemployment fixed
>
> 2) They MUST= buy a new car. One million cars ordered - Auto Industry fixed
>
> 3) They MUST either buy a house or pay off their mortgage - Housing
> Crisis fixed
>
> 4) They MUST send their kids to school/college/university - Crime rate
> fixed
>
> 5) They MUST buy 100 Euro of alcohol/tobacco a week .....and there's
> your money back in duty/tax etc..
>
> It can't get any easier than that!
>
> P.S. If more money is needed, have all members of government pay back their falsely claimed expenses and allowances

pat kenny

Error the maths don't add up in that e-mail.

7 Billion is = 7,000,000,000
Or 7 thousand million

That number divided by 1 million 1,000,000


This only gives 7,000 euro to each person over 50 quitting their job. Not really worth it.


In order to pay 1,000,000 people 7 million each you would need the following figure
7,000,000,000,000
I think this is 7 trillion but I am not sure.



I think this mail may be a badly adapted mail about the 700 billion stimulus package offered in the US.

vcd

Start the tax from now and assume that anyone who has paid stamp duty in the past has paid this tax in advance in a lump sum.

This will help the housing market as the amount being saved, to pay off the current stamp duty levels, can then be put towards the buyers portion of the house price, so bridging the gap between what the lenders will now lend you and what they used to lend you, precentage wise.

the new tax to be based on the square footage of the house. The area it is built in should not be factored in as the buyer has already paid for this in the asking price. Therefore not penalising people for keeping their property well or if thearea has gone up in value since you moved there 30+ years previously

Basing it on size would make it easier for both the household and council to calculate annual payments/receipts.

Wiley1

pat kenny wrote: »

Error the maths don't add up in that e-mail.

7 Billion is = 7,000,000,000
Or 7 thousand million

That number divided by 1 million 1,000,000


This only gives 7,000 euro to each person over 50 quitting their job. Not really worth it.


In order to pay 1,000,000 people 7 million each you would need the following figure
7,000,000,000,000
I think this is 7 trillion but I am not sure.



I think this mail may be a badly adapted mail about the 700 billion stimulus package offered in the US.

You're right, those figures are wrong, maybe trying too hard to be a little America here. In some way there'd be more spending money available again....

Silly figures....:rolleyes:

Wiley1

Wiley1 wrote: »

You're right, those figures are wrong, maybe trying too hard to be a little America here. In some way there'd be more spending money available again....

Silly figures....:rolleyes:

Some people in the private sector will be pleased with this report and it's possible (likely) outcome. Check it out....

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/pay-gap-widens-as-public-sector-earns-25pc-more-1891959.html