NAMA Question

kildarejoe

I just have a question about nama and what will happen.
It seems that a certain group of political cronies seemed to own a lot of land that was rezoned, thus inflating its value.
This land was bought by developers who borrowed the vast sums of money to buy "development zoned" land.
Now NAMA is talking about buying this land off the banks at agricultural prices.
So the same land is back in the political cronies reach whom I have no doubt will eventually buy this land back for a fraction of what they sold it.
Sit on it again for another 10 or 20 years and do the same all over again.

Or is that just a JFK type conspiricy theory.

kildarejoe

kildarejoe wrote: »

It seems that a certain group of political cronies seemed to own a lot of land that was rezoned, thus inflating its value.

For starters, know plenty of people who were completely apolitical but simply and fortunately for them had farms on the edges of towns (and they weren't magicked there by politicians) so your theory creaks after just a line or two...

Nehaxak

Dunno about that Conor. Cherrywood in South Dublin for example, when I was growing up that whole area was nothing more than fields and fields of agricultural land (known locally as the "Barleys" due to what was mostly grown in them). Not so long after the land was bought, maybe about 5 years afterwards, the land was re-zoned and it's price sky-rocketed and developed upon.

If the likes of area's like that are being included in NAMA to be purchased, I for one would like to know who exactly they are being purchased from, what profit that person(s) is making from that NAMA purchase (even at a loss to what they might've made had the boom continued) and then I'd also like to know who is going to own the land and how it will be used and sold on in the future.

Nehaxak

Nehaxak wrote: »

Not so long after the land was bought, maybe about 5 years afterwards, the land was re-zoned and it's price sky-rocketed and developed upon.

Isn't that the whole concept of speculation, which happens all over the world? Does it not happen outside London, Paris, Rome etc. etc. I'm not sure anyone with a farm on the edge of a city in any country is giving that land away for anything near its agricultural value. It's opportunism. I certainly wouldn't base a conspiracy theory roping in NAMA and buying and rebuying land around it.

jmayo

Deleted User wrote: »

For starters, know plenty of people who were completely apolitical but simply and fortunately for them had farms on the edges of towns (and they weren't magicked there by politicians) so your theory creaks after just a line or two...

Ah Conor isn't that what you would like us all to think that it is a lucky farmer who happens to live in the right place.
I didn't know Liam Lawlor farmed around Carrickmines :rolleyes:

For the really big deals it isn't the farmer that makes the huge bucks, but some speculator who happens to buy the land from the farmer and then manages to get the land rezoned as development land with the help of somebody like Frank Dunlop.
This happend quiet a lot around Dublin.

Deleted User wrote: »

Isn't that the whole concept of speculation, which happens all over the world? Does it not happen outside London, Paris, Rome etc. etc. I'm not sure anyone with a farm on the edge of a city in any country is giving that land away for anything near its agricultural value. It's opportunism. I certainly wouldn't base a conspiracy theory roping in NAMA and buying and rebuying land around it.

Of course you wouldn't see any chance of any untoward machinations in the party that spawned Charlie, Liam, Ray, Bertie, Padraig who rose to very prominent positions. :rolleyes:
AFAIK in Ireland the government or councils here do not have anything like the compulsory purchase of land for development purposes that they have in certain other countries.
That way private individuals do not make collosal fortunes on getting land zoned for development.
Of course there might be thousands of Frank Dunlops operating in London, Paris and Rome :rolleyes:

You are right.

And Carrickmines, as any kid knows, was originally in rural Offaly and worth sfa before someone in FF stuck it near Dublin. Now that was one lucky farmer, wasn't he?

Meanwhile, in towns around Paris and London and New York, why you can pick up land for €3k an acre...if they're in REPS. And there are no developers or speculators in SE England, never was, never will be. Nope.

See what perfect society exists when FF and its cronies are not involved?

I am perfectly willing to accept that politicans here have screwed us over, have been involved in shady deals, there are rezoning scams etc. I just don't accept that one can throw NAMA into this whole conspiracy as part of some monstruous pre-conceived plot to scam the people twice. I suspect the Government would far rather building sites were still buzzing every day and peope were still paying over the odds for boxes on the outskirts of Dublin.

Lemming

Deleted User wrote: »

I suspect the Government would far rather ...... peope were still paying over the odds for boxes on the outskirts of Dublin.

The irony is, of course, that with NAMA we will be.

The gubberment are approaching this like solicitors, not market dealers. If they buy up all this "bad stock", they have to maintain it at an artificial price level in the hopes that the market will pick up and people will start to pay those grotesquely overvalued prices. But until then, they pour more and more money down a bottomless pit. Investors are not going to pump money into something that is on proverbial life support. They want something that's going to give a return, not a loss as the prices adjust downwards to reflect reality. So which comes first? Market confidence in prices or a return to spending as a result of confidence?

Reality. There's a word not heard in Ireland's political circles in a long time evidently :-/


edit: I'd also hasten to add that relying on "hopes" of market pickup with that level of public money is nothing short of obscenely outrageous irresponsibility well beyond the criminal.