White collar exodus?

walrusgumble

DublinWriter wrote: »

Oh please, not that old chestnut again.

It amazes me how most Irish people go around with the pious belief that the educational system in Ireland is better than the UK.

I've yet to see any empirical (and not anecdotal) evidence back that claim up.

according to mates of mine in the north from both communities, the education system up north is excellent and even better than down here. Appartently its on huge concern for families if it left the union with the uk

hobochris

walrusgumble wrote: »

according to mates of mine in the north from both communities, the education system up north is excellent and even better than down here. Appartently its on huge concern for families if it left the union with the uk

I have been in both education systems and I can tell you first hand and the UK education system is failing many, the teachers don't care and the standard of education for a lot of schools in the uk reflects this.

Had my family not returned to Ireland I would never have received a decent education nor would I have had a hope of going to college.

Perhaps, your friends are in the above average schools of the UK.

Jaysoose

hobochris wrote: »

I have been in both education systems and I can tell you first hand and the UK education system is failing many, the teachers don't care and the standard of education for a lot of schools in the reflects this.

Had my family not returned to Ireland I would never have received a decent education nor would I have had a hope of going to college.

Perhaps, your friends are in the above average schools of the UK.

Sorry to disagree but you are talking sh1t, i went through the education system in the north and can only speak for myself. I went to a secondary school that was seen as the lower class school in the area and anybody that wanted to learn was given every oppurtunity and the teachers were top class in that regard.

You cant speak for anybody but yourself but if you must at least back it up with something rather than putting out vague statements about your own personal experience and applying it to an entire countries education system.

asdasd

Sorry to disagree but you are talking sh1t, i went through the education system in the north and can only speak for myself. I went to a secondary school that was seen as the lower class school in the area and anybody that wanted to learn was given every oppurtunity and the teachers were top class in that regard.

The education system in the North works, partly for reasons it works in the Republic. Smaller schools, more academically minded. I think the north also has grammer schools. The north conintually does the best in the A levels. Better than the richest parts of England.

The comprehensive education system in the UK as a whole sucks balls. It sucks balls to a massive degree.

BTW, about 20% of people get As in a specific A level, on average. Higher in some subjects. The A level is supposed to be worth two honours leaving certs. No comparison betweem somebody getting 7 honours leaving certs, and someone getting 3 A levels. The latter is much simpler statistically ( so much has it dumbed down that some schools dont teach it, and universities look to other results, or have their own exams).

There was a guy on Big Brother once who did not know who shakespeare was. it was not that he had heard of shakespeare, and hated shakespeare - that the rumour had not even spread from the teacher, or better classmates, that someone called shakespeare exists. It was that in 14 years of education no-one had ever mentioned shakespeare.

But there shakespeare is on the Irish junior cert except at foundation level. And even the foundation level guy would have heard of him.

In another anecdote, my English flatmate was wondering recently which war Hitler was involved in WW1, or WWII. She didnt mean that he was a soldier in WWI. She meant - which war did he run.

She has a degree, and presumably, A levels.

Lockstep

hobochris wrote: »

I have been in both education systems and I can tell you first hand and the UK education system is failing many, the teachers don't care and the standard of education for a lot of schools in the reflects this.

Had my family not returned to Ireland I would never have received a decent education nor would I have had a hope of going to college.

Perhaps, your friends are in the above average schools of the UK.

Yeah, my old man moved to England to teach and he hated it, the good schools were utterly fantastic but the average ones were much tougher to teach in.

Jaysoose

asdasd wrote: »

The education system in the North works, partly for reasons it works in the Republic. Smaller schools, more academically minded. I think the north also has grammer schools. The north conintually does the best in the A levels. Better than the richest parts of England.

The comprehensive education system in the UK as a whole sucks balls. It sucks balls to a massive degree.

BTW, about 20% of people get As in a specific A level, on average. Higher in some subjects. The A level is supposed to be worth two honours leaving certs. No comparison betweem somebody getting 7 honours leaving certs, and someone getting 3 A levels. The latter is much simpler statistically ( so much has it dumbed down that some schools dont teach it, and universities look to other results, or have their own exams).

There was a guy on Big Brother once who did not know who shakespeare was. it was not that he had heard of shakespeare, and hated shakespeare - that the rumour had not even spread from the teacher, or better classmates, that someone called shakespeare exists. But there he is on the Irish junior cert except at foundation level. And even the foundation level guy would have heard of him.

In another anecdote, my English flatmate was wondering recently which war Hitler was involved in WW1, or WWII. She didnt mean that he was a soldier in WWI. She meant - which war did he run.

She has a degree, and presumably, A levels.

Some fair points, but to be fair they are two very different systems so to compare one over the other as to which is best is very difficult without comprehensive figures and the generalisation on here is amazing sometimes. We northies are of course much smarter than the rest of the uk but that goes without saying

I would be surprised if any of the gimps that apply for big brother would know their arse from their elbow so to blame the education system for being a bit wacky and VERY VERY FICK INNIT is a tad unfair. Your english flatmate no knowing which war hitler was involved in...well there is no hope for some people.

vinylbomb

DublinWriter wrote: »

That's funny, it didn't cost me anything the last time I went to an National Health GP in Surrey, whereas here in Ireland I'm paying €60 hello money to my local GP.

You obviously dont read your payslip then. NHS is subtracted at the same time as your PAYE, but shows up separately.

vinylbomb

DublinWriter wrote: »

Maybe I should have stated it a little clearer - what I meant in my original post was specifically first and second level education - and how people like to think that we have a better system here as opposed to the UK.

"83pc of 25 to 34-year-olds in Ireland have completed secondary education compared with 79pc across the OECD."

That quote is taken directly from the Irish times article, it seems to refer directly to secondary education to me.

dvpower

vinylbomb wrote: »

You obviously dont read your payslip then. NHS is subtracted at the same time as your PAYE, but shows up separately.

Are you saying that in the UK, there is a seperate deduction from pay to fund the NHS and this is itemised on payslips under NHS?

Are you sure? Can you just check one more time, its a completely new one on me. could you possibly be mixing it up with NI contributions?

asdasd

Are you sure? Can you just check one more time, its a completely new one on me. could you possibly be mixing it up with NI contributions?

I think it is wrong. That said, not a bad idea to itemize.

hobochris

Jaysoose wrote: »

Sorry to disagree but you are talking sh1t, i went through the education system in the north and can only speak for myself. I went to a secondary school that was seen as the lower class school in the area and anybody that wanted to learn was given every oppurtunity and the teachers were top class in that regard.

You cant speak for anybody but yourself but if you must at least back it up with something rather than putting out vague statements about your own personal experience and applying it to an entire countries education system.

Well what I said is just as valid as what you have said here... It is based on my personal experience as is what you said. I cant back it up more then that.

Now the school I went was in Birmingham(the heart of the Uk), I went to primary school there as well and moved from year 9 there to 2nd year in secondary school here, and spent about 6 months playing catch up to bring myself up to the level of my class, as the education level provided for me so far by the English education system left me found wanting in the Irish educational system. Luckily I put the work in, Played catchup and thanks to the Irish education system(Which to be honest taught me how to learn properly) I have an Honors degree in Computer Science(information systems). Which I would not have been able to achieve in the English system.

Zambia

I love this idea of white collars leaving the countries in droves. Frankly its a crock.

People emigrate for more reasons than just a shortage of work.

If its graduates your worried about fear not as it takes a bit of experience for most countries to verify your skills. So of the few countries accepting immigration you need those skills to be accepted.

This is not the 1980's where Ireland had a great surplus of well educated graduates that were in demand worldwide. In this century Several countries spit out graduates like engorged Ant Queens sending their winged Monkeys to the 4 corners of the world.

I used to tile and you know why it cost €600 to tile a room , because you paid it.

vinylbomb

dvpower wrote: »

Are you saying that in the UK, there is a seperate deduction from pay to fund the NHS and this is itemised on payslips under NHS?

Are you sure? Can you just check one more time, its a completely new one on me. could you possibly be mixing it up with NI contributions?

The one and the same (its from a Wiki, sorry, couldnt find anything less dense and jargony in a quick search)

" National Insurance contributions are paid into the various classes of National Insurance after deduction of monies specifically allocated to the National Health Service (NHS). However a small percentage is transferred from the fund to the NHS from certain of the smaller sub-classes. Thus the NHS is partially funded from NI contributions but not from the NI Fund."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Insurance

vinylbomb

This just occured to me . While it is being touted as a white-collar recession throughout the rest of the world (with large swathes of middle management let go) and to some extent we are affected by that in Ireland, it is really the housing bust and subsequent release of employees in this sector that has had a large impact on the Irish live register figures (I would have thought that the next highest sector would be the service industry). It would be interesting to see what areas of employment dole applicants are coming from.

Just a thought.

P. Breathnach

vinylbomb wrote: »

... Just a thought.

It's quite a good idea to apply thought to things.

I think the thought you brought to bear is quite illuminating.

A Dub in Glasgo

vinylbomb wrote: »

The one and the same (its from a Wiki, sorry, couldnt find anything less dense and jargony in a quick search)

" National Insurance contributions are paid into the various classes of National Insurance after deduction of monies specifically allocated to the National Health Service (NHS). However a small percentage is transferred from the fund to the NHS from certain of the smaller sub-classes. Thus the NHS is partially funded from NI contributions but not from the NI Fund."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Insurance

National Insurance is just another tax. It also funds the state pension system in the UK.

I must say though, I much prefer the NHS to the health system in Ireland. My mother regularly pays €80 to see her doctor and pays hundreds of € to get the medicine.

irish_bob

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

National Insurance is just another tax. It also funds the state pension system in the UK.

I must say though, I much prefer the NHS to the health system in Ireland. My mother regularly pays €80 to see her doctor and pays hundreds of € to get the medicine.

i know private consultans who only charge 80 quid for a consultation , my gp charges 45 and 25 for a re-visit within a week

denat

Galwaybuzz wrote: »

i got to the top but coundn't go any further

What does this mean?

My guess is that any employer who discovered their employee was unable to spell would not be inclined to promote them to a position above "the top" - even if he/she was a graduate. Furthermore, I suspect that this principle would apply in any country.

Further European integration will not necessarily secure the employment prospects of someone of Galwaybuzz's ability.

_astrid_

vinylbomb wrote: »

Contrary to popular belief there is no universal healthcare in Canada. If you're not a permanent employee for 6 months then you're not entitled to a care card, and will be shelling out of your own pocket for any treatment (unless you have private personal or company cover)

Vinylbomb, I think you've been given some bad info on the Care Card issue. Unless you have been a permanent employee for six months you're not eligible for a care card administered under your employers plan.

But you can apply for your own self-administered MSP account, and pay for the card yourself. It's $54 a month.

mcaul

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

National Insurance is just another tax. It also funds the state pension system in the UK.

I must say though, I much prefer the NHS to the health system in Ireland. My mother regularly pays €80 to see her doctor and pays hundreds of € to get the medicine.

I used to be in UK and I can assure you the Irish health system with it faults is FAR better than the UK system where even to this day, one dept doesn't seem to be able to talk to another!

As for costs of Irish health system, the benifits are there for those who need high priced medicines as the MAXIMUM medicine cost per month is €100 per person. Everthing over this is refunded and if you're on specialist heart or cancer or other drugs that would normally cost someone over a thousand a month, this is a blessing.

As I know 2 people who have the advantage of this, (one of whom medicine needs are about €2000 a month) I am quite happy to pay a little extra knowing that this safeguard on cost is in place.

With regard brain drain - It won't happen. the grass is not greener and the tax is not lower in most other countries.

A Dub in Glasgo

mcaul wrote: »

I used to be in UK and I can assure you the Irish health system with it faults is FAR better than the UK system where even to this day, one dept doesn't seem to be able to talk to another!

You can assure me??

I have used both and I think the NHS is better, you have used both and you think the national health system in Ireland is better.